General Diet Plans and Questions General diet questions, support for various diet plans other than those listed below.

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Old 05-18-2013, 07:01 PM   #31  
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thanks guys this is very illuminating. i guess i haven't really cut down on sugar as i thought i did, because i'm eating stuff loaded with it :< and that sucks cuz i LOVE cereal! i thought switching from lucky charms ot honey bunches of oats would be btter u.u

and yes i'm planning on doing a lot of research before trying it, i really don't think i'll be able to handle the sudden lack of carbs well, but my weight loss has completely stopped so it's time for a drastic change, as it looks like my small changes are no better than what i was doing before.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:10 AM   #32  
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I don't think small changes are necessarily a bad idea for you. Your mistake wasn't in making small changes after all, it was in believing you were making a much greater change than you actually were, a problem that can be prevented with some very basic knowledge of basic nutrition and label reading.

Personally, I consider low-carb and Paleo to be more restrictive than most people need, and also more challenging to do well without a strong background in nutrition.
Paleo isn't a (as in one) diet. There are dozens of different plans that use the paleo label (for example, "primal" as in Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint IS a paleo diet. So is Barbara Berkely's "primarian" diet described in her book, Refuse to Regain).

Because there are so many different Paleo diets, and some are more nutritionally sound and science-based than others, you need to have a good understanding of nutrition to evaluate the plan you're interested in.

From your posts, it doesn't sound like you have that yet. Gradual and/or small changes may be right for you, as long as you're making the changes that you think you are.

I recently read, Nutrition for Life: The no-fad, no-nonsense approach to eating well and reaching your healthy weight, by Lisa Hark and Darwin Deen.

It's easy to read and is laid out like a textbook (only interesting). It's also a fun read as the chapers are broken down into short sections. There's also a "diet directory" that lists and explains many popular diets, the pros and cons, and whether the diet is healthy in the long term.

Right now I'm reading The American Dietetic Association Complete Food and Nutrition Guide, it has TONS more information, but it's also a HUGE book, and may have more information than you actually want. It's almost like an encyclopedia (and the writing style isn't quite as entertaining.

Paleo theory departs from much of mainstream nutritional science - but I think you should know the rules before you break them.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:33 AM   #33  
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I don't think small changes are necessarily a bad idea for you. Your mistake wasn't in making small changes after all, it was in believing you were making a much greater change than you actually were, a problem that can be prevented with some very basic knowledge of basic nutrition and label reading.

Personally, I consider low-carb and Paleo to be more restrictive than most people need, and also more challenging to do well without a strong background in nutrition.
Paleo isn't a (as in one) diet. There are dozens of different plans that use the paleo label (for example, "primal" as in Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint IS a paleo diet. So is Barbara Berkely's "primarian" diet described in her book, Refuse to Regain).

Because there are so many different Paleo diets, and some are more nutritionally sound and science-based than others, you need to have a good understanding of nutrition to evaluate the plan you're interested in.

From your posts, it doesn't sound like you have that yet. Gradual and/or small changes may be right for you, as long as you're making the changes that you think you are.

I recently read, Nutrition for Life: The no-fad, no-nonsense approach to eating well and reaching your healthy weight, by Lisa Hark and Darwin Deen.

It's easy to read and is laid out like a textbook (only interesting). It's also a fun read as the chapers are broken down into short sections. There's also a "diet directory" that lists and explains many popular diets, the pros and cons, and whether the diet is healthy in the long term.

Right now I'm reading The American Dietetic Association Complete Food and Nutrition Guide, it has TONS more information, but it's also a HUGE book, and may have more information than you actually want. It's almost like an encyclopedia (and the writing style isn't quite as entertaining.

Paleo theory departs from much of mainstream nutritional science - but I think you should know the rules before you break them.
Well i've studied a bit about nutrition, but the details aren't sticking. I have a learning disorder, so it takes me a very long time to remember things. I do know veggies are good, fruits should be moderated due to sugar,and eggs have a lot of cholesterol, and my smoking is depleting my magnesium which is what's causing my chocolate cravings...

What kinds of small changes should I make now? This is what i've done so far:

Switched from soymilk with chocolate syrup to almond milk with a carnation breakfast drink.
Replaced chocolate chip cookies with oats and honey granola bars.
Replaced sugar with ORGANIC agave nectar.
Switched from canola oil to olive oil.
Switched from butter to olive oil "buttery spread".
Changed to olive oil mayo.
Switched fried chicken for baked.
Switched from fish sticks to seasoned tilapia.
Switched from potato chips to dried veggie slices.
Reduced portion sizes: example one chicken breast with veggies instead of 2 legs and a thigh with mashed potatoes, half a sandwich instead of a whole, one egg on dry toast instead of 2 eggs with 2 slices of toast with butter and preserves on it.
Switched from Lucky Charms to Honey Bunches of Oats.
Stopped eating or drinking anything with aspartame.
Don't eat gelatin at all, or soups made with animal bones.
Try very, very hard to avoid HFCS and related products.


I think those are a lot of good changes, yet i've been at 185ish pounds for quite a while now. I ate exactly 3 meals and one snack today, I feel totally full. Just to see what I had today (this is not a typical day, I was out of the house all day so had to do dining out).

Breakfast: 2 pieces "buttered" toast and 1/2 cup yoghurt with 1 tbsp strawberries
Lunch: 1/2 a sweet onion chicken teriyaki sub from subway
Dinner: 3 chicken tenders and a handful of fries.
Snack: 1 carnation drink and 1 fiber one brownie.

Unfortunately we are completely out of fruit and veggies, otherwise I would have had some veg with some light ranch dressing, we have to go to the grocer tomorrow. And after every meal and after my snack, I felt completely full to bursting.

Obviously a lot of carbs, which is the whole reason i'm researching Paleo. I've done restrictive dieting before, and I know I can do it again, but I need to get more information before I try it. I've read a couple articles, but now that they're closed I can't remember a damn thing except that in the hunter-gatherer times we really didn't eat grains. At least with getting advice here I can simply go to my subscribed threads and look back over the information given.
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:40 AM   #34  
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thanks everyone <3 i haven't read ALL of your responses yet, but i will. i'm thinking of trying the paleo diet for a few days just to see if i can do it, and if i can i'll stretch it to a week. but i don't think i wanna be no-carb, probably just lo-carb. i've been doing lo-calorie and it doesn't seem to be working, so it can't hurt to TRY.
VERRRRY few people are "no carb". I see that thrown around a lot, right along with all the myths about how low carb diets omit vegetables, etc.


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Originally Posted by Alyssa Autopsy View Post
thanks guys this is very illuminating. i guess i haven't really cut down on sugar as i thought i did, because i'm eating stuff loaded with it :< and that sucks cuz i LOVE cereal! i thought switching from lucky charms ot honey bunches of oats would be btter u.u

and yes i'm planning on doing a lot of research before trying it, i really don't think i'll be able to handle the sudden lack of carbs well, but my weight loss has completely stopped so it's time for a drastic change, as it looks like my small changes are no better than what i was doing before.
As others have said, sugar is not going to only be listed as sugar/sucrose. Carbohydrates are either fiber or sugar. Look at the total carbohydrates and subtract the fiber. What ever is left is going to be sugar or turned into sugar shortly.

I also think that too many people think paleo/primal is a diet in the way South Beach/Atkins/IP/etc. are "diets". Paleo/primal are based on health and biologically appropriate diets, not weight loss. Weight loss just tends to come with living healthier. This is not something that someone would want to do short-term, thinking it's a weight loss plan. It's not.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:09 AM   #35  
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I believe that even the government is beginning to see the error of its ways in respect to the food pyramid. They are now promoting that perfect portion plate thing where fruits & veggies equals half your plate instead of the pyramid. At least this is what the speaker who came to a TOPS meeting I attended said. She was one of the "nutrition counselors" who worked for the govt advising/teaching courses for Food Stamp and WIC recipients.

The accepted items on WIC have changed to include produce in exchange for some of the grains/cereals/etc that used to be included with the vouchers.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:17 AM   #36  
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I meant to include this link from USDA gov site.

http://www.choosemyplate.gov/myplate/index.aspx
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:52 AM   #37  
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Just to see what I had today (this is not a typical day, I was out of the house all day so had to do dining out).

Breakfast: 2 pieces "buttered" toast and 1/2 cup yoghurt with 1 tbsp strawberries
Lunch: 1/2 a sweet onion chicken teriyaki sub from subway
Dinner: 3 chicken tenders and a handful of fries.
Snack: 1 carnation drink and 1 fiber one brownie.
I would try to wean myself off the toast in the morning. You could choose egg, bacon or sausage. The fat in them would keep you from getting hungry.

Also, if you go to Subway, you can get a salad instead of a sandwich. it contains all the same things as the sandwich but they give you more lettuce and no bun.

I am not familiar with carnation drink, so check the ingredients label for a carb and sugar count. Maybe you could buy a can of whey protein powder and make your own shakes. The initial cost would be high, but you get a lot of shakes out of a can of powder mix. Be careful not to use this along with a meal....they can be high in calories. They should be used as a meal replacement. You could probably make a half portion as a snack. And you have to check the carb and sugar count on them. It can vary by brands.
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Old 05-19-2013, 10:06 AM   #38  
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And really, even honey bunches of oats? I got that because it's honey as opposed to sugar o.O
As others have said, yes even honey bunches of oats is not really good for you. In fact I recently went down the cereal aisle and looked through all the cereals trying to find one without sugar. The only ones I found were grape nuts and shredded wheat. That's it!

What it sounds like to me is that you are still in the stage of falling for what looks and sounds like it's healthy. So what if you're using organic agave nectar? That's still sugar! So you think you're making a good choice by switching from butter (which is a real food) to buttery spread? (which is a processed food!). What the heck is a "seasoned tilapia?" sounds like a frozen packaged food. The only ingredient in that should be "tilapia" - anything else and it's a processed food.

Don't fall for the gimmicks. Tried to read a few things by Michael Pollan. He advocates eating real food. Your diet consists of so much processed food.
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Old 05-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #39  
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As others have said, yes even honey bunches of oats is not really good for you. In fact I recently went down the cereal aisle and looked through all the cereals trying to find one without sugar. The only ones I found were grape nuts and shredded wheat. That's it!

What it sounds like to me is that you are still in the stage of falling for what looks and sounds like it's healthy. So what if you're using organic agave nectar? That's still sugar! So you think you're making a good choice by switching from butter (which is a real food) to buttery spread? (which is a processed food!). What the heck is a "seasoned tilapia?" sounds like a frozen packaged food. The only ingredient in that should be "tilapia" - anything else and it's a processed food.

Don't fall for the gimmicks. Tried to read a few things by Michael Pollan. He advocates eating real food. Your diet consists of so much processed food.
Seasoned Tilapia is just that- seasoned fish. I but the fish, I season it, I cook it.

The olive oil spread is much lower calorie than butter, and tastes better, too.

What should I be using instead of sugar and Agave Nectar then?
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Old 05-19-2013, 01:19 PM   #40  
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i am attempting a no/lo-carb day to see how i feel throughout the day. if i feel better i'll research even more and maybe even design a 3 days worth of no/lo-carb meals and a shopping list, and if i really do feel better i'll think about making a permanent lo-carb change, substituting extra steamed veg for my usual rice or pasta, and maybe having 2 eggs in the morning instead of 1 egg and a slice of toast.

just to keep track i will edit this post with what i eat throughout the day, and hopefully someone will read my log and tell me if i'm doing well or not~ i'm not including the calories though, as calorie counting is emotionally harmful to me.







TODAY'S TRY-IT-ON TRACKING
Breakfast: 2 cups coffee, with 1/2 tsp agave nectar and a splash of creamer for each, 1 egg over easy, 1 slice lo-sodium bacon.
Snack: 1 Orange, Apple Juice (the juice has carbs in it, but I figured since it was from fruit juice with no sugar or anything added, it would be okay, plus i'm only having a few sips as opposed to the whole bottle)
Lunch: salad with lettuce, cucumber, carrot, broccoli, cauliflower, olives, and light ranch dressing; handful cashews
Snack: 3 pieces dark chocolate with caramel, handful blueberries
Dinner: Tuna with olive oil mayo
Before-Bed Snack: 1 scrambled egg with 1/4 slice cheese, 2 slices lo-sodium bacon

Notes: Didn't think to check the carbs on JUICE, but i only had a few mouthfuls. also didn't know what to eat before bed, so i asked le boyfriend what HE wanted, and he wanted eggs and bacon, so that's what i decided to have, too. I am going to eat normally (though i will try not to inhale potato chips or sandwiches) this week, but will be planning a shopping list for next weekend to go low carb. i am not cutting out completely, i'll still eat my apples, and my fiber one brownies don't have many carbs, but i'm going to make a conscious effort to watch the carbs.

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Old 05-19-2013, 01:48 PM   #41  
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Seasoned Tilapia is just that- seasoned fish. I but the fish, I season it, I cook it.

The olive oil spread is much lower calorie than butter, and tastes better, too.

What should I be using instead of sugar and Agave Nectar then?
Agave nectar is very similar to high fructose corn syrup (possibly worse for you than white sugar).

There are two lines of thought in paleo when it comes to sweeteners. 1. Don't use any - it will retrain your tastebuds and fruit will be your only sweet treat (and you may have to be careful not to overeat it). 2. Use stevia (a plant-based low-cal sweetener), Splenda, aspartame if your body can handle it, and small amounts of sugar alcohols such as xylitol (birch sugar) and others (often ending in -itol).

Go easy on the -itols, because they aren't all zero-calorie, and the can have a laxative effect, causing diarrhea, especially if eaten in significant quantities.

I do use sweeteners, mostly xylitol and Splenda, but also monkfruit sweeteners (available in many low-carb online stores, and in many grocery stores (often blended with another sweetener because monkfruit is expensive and somewhat bitter, and I even use aspartame (because I've experimented and notice no symptoms and I've read a lot of the research, and I'm satisfied that it's safe in the quantities I use it).

I would encourage you to find and buy a basic nutrition book like Nutrition for Life. It's written in a very readable and easy format ( and it's available at amazon.com for a reasonable cost, especially if you buy used and/or a previous edition). The sections are very short and it's almost magazine-style with a lot of full-color photos on every page, so it's fun and interesting to read. The table of contents and index can help you find what you're interested in, so it's a good book to keep to look up stuff.

A lot of people have trouble getting nutrition information to "stick," because there's so much false and misleading information out there - especially from food makers in commercials, because they want us to believe that their foods are healthier than they really are.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #42  
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Seasoned Tilapia is just that- seasoned fish. I but the fish, I season it, I cook it.

The olive oil spread is much lower calorie than butter, and tastes better, too.

What should I be using instead of sugar and Agave Nectar then?
In order to make it "taste better" and be lower calorie it's made up of all kinds of non-food type preservatives. I try to avoid processed foods whenever I can and this is at the top of the list of processing.

Sorry, there is no substitute for sugar. I avoid all sugars and sweeteners, I can't drop a single pound if I eat any kind of sugar, honey, or agave. Even artificial sweeteners make me crave sugar. Plus sugar makes you crave more sugar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0zD...F782316B425249 I've learned to live without, that way I don't have to fight cravings all the time. I haven't had sugars or sweeters in my coffee in a few years, it IS possible.

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Old 05-19-2013, 06:09 PM   #43  
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In order to make it "taste better" and be lower calorie it's made up of all kinds of non-food type preservatives. I try to avoid processed foods whenever I can and this is at the top of the list of processing.
I think you're misunderstanding op about the seasoned tilapia, she's buying unseasoned, plain tilapia and is seasoning it herself.
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Old 05-19-2013, 06:15 PM   #44  
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I think you're misunderstanding op about the seasoned tilapia, she's buying unseasoned, plain tilapia and is seasoning it herself.
yep. i try to avoid stuff like that, i like sauced veggies that you can get in the frozen veg section, but today i put it back and bought some broccoli/cauliflower/carrot mix instead. i can eat 2 cups of veg as a snack easily, if it's the right type that i enjoy. i get that specific mix because my boyfriend and i both like it, and it has no onions or peppers in it.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:36 AM   #45  
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I think you're misunderstanding op about the seasoned tilapia, she's buying unseasoned, plain tilapia and is seasoning it herself.
I was talking about the "buttery spread"
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