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Gotta love the free teaching lesson! Same with people telling you how and what to eat when they have no idea what they are talking about.
Originally Posted by : |
Ok. So apparently no one is reading this the way I am. What I hear is - you are young, you have a lot going for you, you have so many opportunities I wish I had or had taken advantage of. Do all the things you want to do NOW while you're young and not tied down and the world is open to you.
That's not so horrible. Believe it or not, people do learn from their mistakes, look back, and want to tell other people - don't do what I did. Take chances, try things. I'm always surprised by the things other people find "annoying" and the negative intentions they assign to other people. |
Oh dear. I would have thrown a stapler at her head. You're seriously awesome for not saying what you were thinking & being polite instead! That's so hard to do!
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Buddha Gal, in my world, you're a role model - you know who you are and how you want to live, and aren't subjugating yourself to the wishes of others. Methinks your coworker is caught up in the midlife drama of realizing that following the path of least resistance and doing everything "by the book" is no path to happiness. Your responses were incredibly civil and perhaps TOO civil, as you may have left yourself open to further "coaching" sessions. You may have to make it clear that you don't consider her qualified as a mentor for the lifestyle you wish to live.
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Originally Posted by Buddha Gal: Let me take your list and see if I can improvise on what she might be seeing in bold: Late twenties ~ Single and not looking this girl might miss the boat if she doesn't get on it soon ~ Child-free poor thing (people with kids often wish the same happiness on others) ~ Living on my own lonely ~ Living within my means boring ~ Debt-free not taking any chances ~ Making the best money I could ever hope to make, this the best job I’ve ever had. this is all you've ever wanted? Get out while you can! ~ Stable family so what? ~ Fairly stress-free life doubtful! ~ I do things for myself sucker! ~ Don’t complain about my life (minus little annoyances, but nothing personal)Just you wait! And the this is how she may be interpreting those negative things you said about her: 50 What's wrong with 50!!?? ~ Divorced in her 20’s and never remarried If I could go back and do it all over again... ~ Single, but constantly goes on about needing a manI'm lonely, I wish I worked harder at finding someone and now it feels too late! ~ Two grown daughters in their 20’s. The one lives at home and makes bad decisions. The other is married with two kids and they all recently moved back in with co-worker. I love my kids and willing to do anything for them, and I'm so grateful that they're close to me and that I can be there for them. ~ Has a male housemate living with her (allowed him to move in even though he lied to her and is financially irresponsible). How do I get out of this one? ~ In debt I came across some hardships earlier in my life, made some bad decision or unavoidable decisions and now I have to pay for it the rest of my life! ~ Constantly on about not having any money and can’t get her bills in order.I'm just being honest. ~ Always seeking help because she never wants to do anything for herself.Maybe I'm a little lazier than I need to be but I can't do everything on my own. ~ Generally unhappy about her life/job and won’t hesitate to tell you. If I can get other people to feel sorry for me they won't see me as a threat. Anyway, I just totally made all that up for argument's sake. But the truth is that she may not be as unhappy as you think she is. We're all different and we want different things. The conversation you had with her sounded like decent advice, and maybe saw herself in you (which is actually a compliment), and doesn't want you to make mistakes she did. And maybe nobody is patting her on the back and I know how that feels sometimes, we have to be our own cheerleader sometimes and this woman might just need a hug. I'm not negating how you feel because I know how annoying it can be. But maybe she needs a little more compassion and perhaps she's feeling that you're projecting superiority over her - at least it sounds like you think you're superior to her in your post. |
@ Desiderata: No, it’s a good question.
I find writing it out does help a bit. I feel like I’m getting my thoughts in order and getting other people’s take on the situation makes me feel like I’m not crazy haha. Like, does this happen to other people, ok yeah, I’m not alone. We all rant on this board, just so happens I had two rant-able situations come up around the same time :dizzy: When it comes to my sister or my co-worker or anyone else in the world, they can live their lives as they choose – just leave me out of it. I wouldn’t say that the co-worker has hit a vulnerable spot. This isn’t me feeling insecure about my life so much as stay out of my life when you haven’t been invited. The conversation was rude and uncalled for, and being human I’m going to response in a human way – say WTH? and get annoyed. I could understand if I’d been going around the office crying about my life and she thought she’d offer up some advice but that’s not the case. I don’t talk about my personal life, don’t have any sort of friendship with her, and yet for some reason she felt the overwhelming urge to tell me I need to do something with my life, a life she knows absolutely nothing about. Really, it would be no different then approaching a stranger on the street and telling them what to do with themselves. It also doesn’t help that she used her condescending, self-righteous tone and spoke to me like I was a child :no: Honestly, my work environment isn’t that frustrating. I like my other co-workers, we joke around and have a good time, there are little annoyances of course, but this week I was taken by surprise. @ Breathing Space: You’re right. The lists were to give a little background to the story so that it would make some sense. And yes, it did strike a nerve. The nerve of my business is my business so stay out of it haha. @ TheSecondHalf: Tone is everything. I wish I could post audio haha. She is known for her condescending, self-righteous tone and that was the tone she employed for the conversation. This wasn’t a friendly chit-chat. It was accusatory and demanding. “You NEED to go to college,” telling me instead of suggesting, like I never thought to go before, and it turns out I’ve already been. “You NEED to do something with your life,” like an annoyed parent talking to the 40 year old kid living in the basement. It’s mighty arrogant to assume you know what someone wants to do or should do with their life. Suggestions are one thing, demands are another. I could understand if this conversation was of the “look, these are the mistakes I have made, please avoid them so you don’t wind up like me” variety but it wasn’t. She assumed that I wasn’t doing anything with my life and to change that I need to do what she did. Because, you know, it’s gotten her so far - her kids and her grandkids are mooching off her, she pines to have a man, allows a liar to live with her, treats people like they are below her, can’t seem to do anything for herself, she’s in debt, hates her job, has hated almost all her jobs, and can’t get her life organized. Yeah, so much better than where I am now :p Honestly, instead of worrying about me, she needs to worry about her own daughters. You got lessons to instill or want someone to follow in your footsteps then focus on your own kids. From what she’s been saying, they need the advice more than me. @ICUwishing: If I wouldn’t have to deal with HR, it wouldn’t have been so civil :frypan: hahaha. Hopefully it never comes up again but if it does I’m ready to put it to rest for good. |
@ Wannabeskinny: If she is happy with her life you’d never know it :p She is a “Debbie Downer”. Very few in the office like to talk to her because everything is a complaint or whine. She never seems to be satisfied.
The two lists were just some context, information as to why I’d be annoyed with the conversation. I wasn’t trying to build myself up or tear her down. Just trying to give people an idea of “here is where I stand in life, my co-worker is saying I’m not doing anything with my life and I need to be more like her even though this is what her life is like.” When it comes to my list: I know your additions were for argument sake, so for argument sake, I know my co-worker isn’t thinking that way because she isn’t aware of half the stuff I listed about myself. As I don’t talk about my personal life at work she is unaware of my relationship status, want of children, living within my means, financial situation, and stable family. Can't form opinions on things she's unaware of. That’s what got me about the conversation; it was out-of-the blue and based on assumptions. I could understand if I’d been going around the office crying about my life and she thought to give advice but that’s not the case. Pretty much minding my own business when she suddenly tells me I’m not doing anything with my life. Doesn’t help that the tone was condescending and demanding as opposed to chit-chatty and suggestive. When it comes to her list: I’m just going off of what she has ranted about. She has complained about the divorce and goes on that she needs a man to finance her hobbies, but men are losers. She complains about her daughters and them living with her. She complains about the housemate that she allowed to move in even though she was fully aware of the fact that he is a irresponsible liar. She’s in debt because she lets everyone mooch off her, she complains about it but won’t stop it. When it comes to not doing anything on her own, it’s straight up laziness not so much I can’t do everything by myself. Example: She asked me to schedule her training classes (which I won’t do) because she “doesn’t have time”, but then she’s on the phone chit-chatting with a friend or googling recipes. She takes advantage of people. If she ever talked about anything positive I would have added it to her list. Don’t know how I could be projecting my superiority over her as I don’t talk about my life, let alone brag about it. We don’t speak to one another other than, “good morning”, “do you have that paperwork,” and “does this come to you?” As anyone on site would tell you, she’s the one with the superiority complex. Guys in the field don’t like dealing with her because she talks to them like they’re idiots. You may have twenty years experience on the job, but she’s still going to talk to you like you don’t know what you're doing. |
Wow...talk about projecting your own issues onto others, sounds like she needs everyone to get a masters degree to validate her own choices in life...mmmmmkay lady...Haha! Just smile and nod...smile and nod.
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Looks to me like the co-worker was just projecting her own angst and lost dreams on you. I wouldn't take it personally. It's clearly her problem.
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Originally Posted by Desiderata: Exactly what I was thinking...Could not have said it any better myself. |
Originally Posted by Buddha Gal: As someone who grew up around very judgement parents I was taught that being judgmental was normal. So normal that I couldn't even recognize it. I confused it with stating the facts. I still find the idea of judgement interesting, because sometimes I wonder where the line is between stating the facts, observing someone's character based on their actions and being judgmental. It has taken a long time to begin to seperate the two. Desiderata said, nicer than I would have, that you are being a bit judgemental about how these people are living their lives, and followed with some pretty sound and insightful advice. I noticed that you did not address that in your response. Is it possible that you can not see how your two posts are judgemental of the people in your life? I can relate from past experience that it can be hard to see why your opinions are not justified by what the person does/says or even by how others view them. (You mentioned others in the office feel the same way) In other words, you are explaining why you wrote everything out (understandable) and that you responded how anyone else would, but didn't acknowledge the judgement. I know from first hand experience that being told that something you have said is judgmental is a sh!tty feeling. And admitting it to yourself is typically an equally crappy feeling. I think it can also be confusing, because the "judgemental" thoughts seem so concrete (and justified like I said above). I have a friend (I mentioned her in your other post) that while she is an awesome friend in many ways (funny, out going, smart), she does nothing with her life and complains about it. It sucks because she has some many great qualities (why we are still friends) but wow she just barely moves off the couch most days. In every area of her life since I've known her, she will not take action, will not take responsibility for her life going no where because of her failure to do anything, and frankly the word I think describes it is "lazy" (personally, professionally,she doesn't work, and physically) but she complains that her life is awful. ...But....I'm pretty sure that calling her lazy is judgemental....even if I left out the name calling and just described in detail the train wreck that is her life....it would come across as judgemental....which I struggle with because I feel like I'm just stating the obvious facts that anyone that knows her can see! So I get if you feel like you are just stating the obvious on your work friend (and you workout sister), but I can say after a lot of learning about interpersonal relationships that it is judgemental. (And I am being judgemental of my friend as well) Now does it really matter in the privacy of your own home/computer that you are doing that? Probably not. I think the issue is (at least I've found out) that if you aren't aware you are doing that, you are likely to follow that pattern unknowingly when talking with others. (As I've learned to recognize judgement, I can at least not do it in the company of others, except as an example in this post! :) Being judgemental and not knowing it causes two big problems: 1. Others perceive you as judgemental, and you repell those that don't like that while attracting those that are equally judgemental/ don't see it as an unhealthy way to communicate. This might not sound bad, but after awhile, those people start to become very draining. Which means that you, unknowingly are a draining person because of your judgements about others. None of us want to be a zap on other people's energy. 2. Foot in mouth!!! ....You say something judgemental (without even knowing) about something, like you have made it clear that you think less of your cowork because her adult daughter lives with her or because she's in debt and you inadvertently offend someone else, who has a similar life situation and you were not aware of it. When you make a judgement or put a negative attachment to a life choice or situation, you had better be ready to offend/piss off/ insult EVERYONE in that group. That will eventually catch up to you, with someone you did not want to offend. Kind of similar to what caught my attention in your last post. You were rather judgmental of your friends's behavior during her pregnancy, which is why I responded, because despite me being a neurotic, type A personality, that runs my life like a drill sergent normally........while I'm pregnant, I for some reason become the most unmotivated, who gives rats @ss about a plan person. My whole life goes limp. I don't clean, I don't get errands done, I procrastinate....I make plans I don't keep...my friends/family and husband think its the most amazing personality transformation (DH kind of likes it because I'm so laid back!) Happened with every pregnancy. Anyway, my point is your post sounded like you never had kids (confirmed) and yet you were judging your friend on something you have no experience with and my initial thought was if you were to meet me now, you'd surely judge the crap out of me basking in glory of my pregnancy laziness and yet I know when I'm not pregnant I run circles around everyone in the get sh!t done department. With this post, your coworker is older than you with more life behind her, and yet from your unexperienced view at 20 something, you are judging a women that was living life/making decisions when you were still in diapers (and before you were born). Basically, you have no place to even judge the people you are judging, you haven't walked in their shoes. (You don't even have kids and you are judging someone's parenting situation with grown children! ) I'm saying this as someone who has been there done that. It doesn't work in the long run. |
Buddha Gal, I was just playing devil's advocate. Obviously you know this woman and you don't enjoy her company and I don't fault you for that. She very well may be a miserable person and when I was in my 20's I was much quicker to judge as well, I think that's a normal part of being young. I also think that if your coworker is as miserable as you say she is then it still doesn't hurt to kill her with kindness. I'm in my mid-30s but I've been learning steadily that being kind, receptive and respectful of other people is the only way that I can remain sane. Disagreement, conflict, anger and hostility only cause damage to me. I have come to understand that some people talk only to hear themselves talk. And if someone else is being hostile towards me it is an invitation for me to reciprocate the same way - luckily I've learned how to decline and de-escalate the situation. It's so much easier on your psyche to smile, nod, and say thank you and then move on. This way you're calm, she's happy and no harm's been done. Diffuse with serenity!
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I don't know what to say other than thank you for the analysis and the advice. I'd love to keep going back and forth writing out investigative essays on the interworkings of my subconscious, but really they were just two posts venting about everyday frustrations.
Was I ragging on pregnant women in my first post – of course not. I was venting about a sister who is disconnected from reality and just happened to be pregnant the last time around. Am I ragging on the divorced, those with adult kids at home, single, in debt, etc. in this post – of course not. I’m venting about a co-worker who complains about all these things and yet thinks I’m not doing anything with my life and should follow in her footsteps. Can I be a little more zen? Sure, as can a lot of people. Can I be a little less judgmental when someone is spreading their personal business around the office, etc.? I will try my best :) |
The more I read this, the more I see an analogy of a thunderstorm. Circumstances aside, Buddha Gal, you seem to have a very positive attitude towards your life. Your co-worker seems to have a very negative one. The two mix, and bam! Thunder. Or something. Honestly, if it sounds like she's about to try the same thing again, "sorry, can I just stop you there? I don't really like to get into my personal circumstances at work, it makes me uncomfortable, I prefer to keep things professional but thanks for thinking of me" then walk away! Or something like that might work. Regardless of what you're doing with your life, what she's doing with hers, and how either of you feel about either if those things... Just clearly stating your boundaries to her might be enough to keep her negativity/projection at arm's length?
And I am revelling in the irony of this post, I know you didn't ask for advice... I don't want to offend with the suggestion, just it's something I've had to do to keep things professional before :) |
@ the shiv: The post may have been a vent, but advice is welcome :)
I personally believe that everyone should have an escape hatch in their workplace and/or home. Pull the cord and just flee when someone comes around haha. But, yeah, if things get personal again the brakes will have to be applied, clearly stating something like you said, 'I don't discuss my personal life, etc.' |
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