Originally Posted by bandit bear:
It doesn't matter what the Lane Bryant marketing department thinks or thought when they decided to call their store credit cashback program. It doesn't matter if they thought it sounded good, or that it was catchy. It doesn't matter if it was unintentional or not. It's erasing a certain demographic women, and I'm saying that it's not cool and that it needs to go away, in all mediums, and in all marketing and advertising, and in people's attempts at making women who aren't thin feel better.

I think that while we'll definitely continue to agree that the "real women have curves" saying/meme is exclusionary, and only serves to further diminish all women by telling everyone what they should look like, we'll have to simply disagree about Lane Bryant's reward dollars.

Their reward system is not connected to the meme. It no more says that women who don't shop at Lane Bryant aren't real in the same way that Victoria Secret having a "Sexy Women Dollars" would imply that women who can't or don't shop at Victoria Secret aren't sexy.

Originally Posted by MissGuided:
Would it still have been an issue if a small size clothing store used the same slogan? Just curious if it is the slogan in general that upsets you or if it is because you feel it is being implied that only plus size women are real women.

It's almost as if I couldn't 'Be All That I Can Be' in the Marines rather than the Army, because that's simply what the Army is implying, right?

Of course. Like I keep repeating, over and over again, this whole idea of a "real woman" needs to go away. Dove did it too and was criticized for it.

Did anyone read the links I gave? :?::?:

I read them, I just think you're wrong.

Originally Posted by nelie:
And you missed my point. The point being well part of it is just silly marketing. The other part is that obese women are often degenerated in society. A women's store who caters to obese women wanted to add some self esteem boosting to their marketing. They could've used sexy, beautiful, etc. Would your reaction be the same? Would you feel those excluded non-obese women and would indicate that you have to be obese to be sexy? Or beautiful?

I personally don't think their "real women" dollars are trying to make a statement about society and women who aren't size 14+ and I don't view them as exclusionary.

I know there has been a lot of swirl lately, especially on Facebook about comparing thin women to slightly chunkier women. And again Lane Bryant has had this marketing for nearly a decade. It was never about comparing their clients with those that weren't. And I know the Facebook stuff was comparing curvy women who would still be way too small for Lane Bryant's clothes. It is a shame that someone decided it was cool to try to say someone wasn't a real woman based on their size/shape/figure but I view that as a totally different issue than LB's marketing.

You still aren't focusing on what I was saying. All you're focusing on is the marketing aspect of it and only on Lane Bryant. Lane Bryant isn't the whole issue here. I'm talking broader, societal means (which I mentioned in my very first post).

What I am trying to say is that it's not about the fact that obese women are degenerated in society, it's that thin women are being degenerated themselves in an attempt to make plus-sized women feel better about their bodies. Whether you believe it or not, this whole concept of a "real woman" and "real women have curves" meme is hurtful to women who don't fall into that body image. And yes, thin women are hurt and feel erased by this idea.

Why is that such a difficult concept for everyone to grasp?

Stop focusing on Lane Bryant's intentions. Like I keep repeating, it doesn't matter what their intentions are. It doesn't matter what their marketing is. It doesn't matter that they want plus-sized women to feel better. What I am saying is that them using "real women dollars" is CONTRIBUTING to this problem of the idea of a "real woman."

Please read the articles that I linked to on the first page. I posted them for a reason.

Originally Posted by Lovely:
I think that while we'll definitely continue to agree that the "real women have curves" saying/meme is exclusionary, and only serves to further diminish all women by telling everyone what they should look like, we'll have to simply disagree about Lane Bryant's reward dollars.

Their reward system is not connected to the meme. It no more says that women who don't shop at Lane Bryant aren't real in the same way that Victoria Secret having a "Sexy Women Dollars" would imply that women who can't or don't shop at Victoria Secret aren't sexy.

But you can't say that the issue about "real women have curves" is exclusionary (which it is) and then not agree that Lane Bryant using the phrase "real women" and being a PLUS-SIZED store is contributing. It is. Whether or not you agree, it is. It might not be directly connected to this meme, but it contributes by calling their customers, who are plus-sized, "real women." They aren't directly saying it, but it's implying it. And like I keep repeating, it doesn't matter what their intentions are. Its STILL implying it, regardless if they had innocent intentions or not. That's why it needs to go away in ALL forms. You simply can't have it both ways.

And Victoria's Secret doesn't have "Sexy Woman Dollars" so that's irrelevant. And it's also not a part of the idea of a "real woman". So please stop bringing up other stores and their non-existent marketing gimmicks because it's not about that. I've already said multiple times what it's about.

I agree that society has this set image of what is considered to be a "real woman" and there should be no classification.

I think the insecurities of women will always be there regardless of a simple slogan a clothing store decides to use.

Where thin women are hurt by the now accepted meme of 'real women have curves' there are plenty of obese women still bothered by the fact that they need to look super model status to be accepted.

Just the simple reality of it.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I agree that 'real women have curves' is hurtful and should be eliminated. I don't think that Lane Bryant's "Real Women" dollars has anything to do with it. I don't think they are implying it with the marketing ploy. It is odd that you find the issue with a store just because it is plus sized. If it wasn't a plus sized store, it seems like you wouldn't have an issue with it.

I've seen other similar marketing ploys like "where smart shoppers shop" or similar. Victoria Secret does have coupons that indicate their shoppers are sexy but that doesn't mean that those that don't shop there aren't sexy.

As I said, I don't believe it is them indicating that their clientele are the only real women or that plus sized women are the only real women. It seems like the whole issue has blown up after LB came out with the marketing and you expect them to change due to what other people have said and done. We can agree to disagree though.

Originally Posted by nelie:
I think we will have to agree to disagree. I agree that 'real women have curves' is hurtful and should be eliminated. I don't think that Lane Bryant's "Real Women" dollars has anything to do with it. I don't think they are implying it with the marketing ploy. It is odd that you find the issue with a store just because it is plus sized. If it wasn't a plus sized store, it seems like you wouldn't have an issue with it.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat myself, but like I keep saying over and over again, this concept of a "real woman" needs to go away entirely. Yes, even with Lane Bryant's marketing of their savings program. I just get the feeling you aren't reading my posts and it's getting frustrating.

Originally Posted by nelie:
I've seen other similar marketing ploys like "where smart shoppers shop" or similar. Victoria Secret does have coupons that indicate their shoppers are sexy but that doesn't mean that those that don't shop there aren't sexy.

Ok, so you haven't been reading my posts. :-/

Originally Posted by nelie:
As I said, I don't believe it is them indicating that their clientele are the only real women or that plus sized women are the only real women. It seems like the whole issue has blown up after LB came out with the marketing and you expect them to change due to what other people have said and done. We can agree to disagree though.

Now you REALLY haven't been reading my posts.

What a disappointment.

I try to start a dialogue about erasing language from our society that degrades women and used an *example* and everyone focuses on that tiny aspect and doesn't listen to a word I say about anything else.

*sigh*

Originally Posted by :
Victoria Secret having a "Sexy Women Dollars" would imply that women who can't or don't shop at Victoria Secret aren't sexy.

That would bother me, too. Mostly because their size range is so narrow, and they have always been SO rude to me when I tried to shop while heavier. But I digress.

I have always hated "Real Women Have Curves", because even when I was heavy I had no curves. I didn't get any chest to speak of until I got pregnant (and by "to speak of", I mean above a B cup). Some real women don't have boobs and butts!

I do think that "Real Women Dollars" deliberately exploits the "Real Women Have Curves" language, and that the original saying is exclusionary and implies those without curves AREN'T real women. BUT, to most of Lane Bryant's demographic, the phrase draws them in by answering to insecurities that heavy women aren't "real" women (those insecurities having been formed from a lifetime of advertisements that imply, subtly or directly, that heavier women aren't sexy/real/attractive/etc). That it turned ME off a bit, being a relatively small part of their demographic (plus size, curveless girls), is irrelevant, because it was overall effective to their core customer base. And in advertising, it's about pleasing your demographic.

A WHOLE LOT of advertising, unfortunately, exploits stereotypes, overgeneralizations, and jokes made in poor taste. But such advertising isn't going anywhere, because it works in the demographic it is targeted toward. Speaking to your demographic is a key part of marketing 101, and Lane Bryant isn't alone in doing so (and frankly, is a little LESS offensive than some other players in the field).

While it would be great if the whole "Real Women Have Curves" thing could go away entirely, it's not likely to happen. And there are lots of other objectionable things out there I'd like to see go that way as well. As long as they're effective advertising, they're likely to stick around.

It has been so long since I first saw Real Women dollars, I can't even remember what their initial marketing for it was but even on their site, they show a regular, slightly plus-sized model in somewhat boxy clothing. I was also not a very curvy plus size women and also wore a B cup.

I think we should celebrate every women and we shouldn't compare one to another saying one is better than the other. I just personally don't see it in the LB campaign.

I think one thing that a lot of bigger woman don't realize is that thin women hate their bodies too. A lot of "thin" women think that their hips are to square, the bums are to small, their breasts are not big enough. When you add in ANYTHING to do with "real women" when it comes to either being bigger or being curvy, those women will hate their bodies more. Just because someone is thin does not make them have a super model body that they love.

The whole "Real Woman Dollars" does play into the "Real women have curves" thing in my mind. To me, it is trying to boost the self-esteem of bigger women which of course was probably invented with good intentions. However, I know so many thin women TRY to gain weight in order to become curvy but just can't. It was mentioned in this forum that bigger women have trouble feeling girly and feel "unwomenly".... Girls with very small breasts, boy hips and no butt feel the exact same way. They want to look like the curvacious super models as well!

So to sum up what I just blabbed about, calling anything "real women" that leaves out half of the woman population is horrible. "Real women dollars" in a plus size store is discriminating against small women. "Real women dollars" in a regular store would be seen as rude towards plus sized women. It just needs to disappear all together because it will always be insulting. There are thousands of other words that could be used for their dollar names.

BanditBear seems angry that we that have read her post , haven't read the entire post, don't understand her post, or don't agree with her opinion.
BanditBear, that's life, we are all entitled to our opininions and should respect others even if we don't agree.

For what it's worth, I worked at LB in 1999, and we had them then. So it's been at least 13 years that they've been using this promotion, and likely several more than that.

I've always taken it to mean, "I might be plus-sized, but I'm a real woman, too."

Even if people don't agree with the OP, the point has still been made - the name they have chosen for this particular program has created confusion. It's not called "We Are Real Women, Too!" It's called "Real Women Dollars". Who shops at Lane Bryant? Larger women. Who is this being marketed to? Larger women. Who doesn't shop here or benefit from this program? Smaller women. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what was intended when this name was chosen just as it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what 2 plus 2 is.

BTW, the OP isn't the only one saying it: http://www.teenagerie.com/2010/09/th...says-lane.html

Originally Posted by :
What I do not understand though, is why in supporting one body type our culture feels it necessary to degrade another. Real women dollars? What about lacking curves fails to make me legitimately female? Shouldn't a woman be allowed to be "womanly" regardless of her body type?

In 2010, Lane Bryant criticized Fox and ABC for running a racy Victoria's Secret commercial while censoring a Lane Bryant ad. They responded by creating their own Victoria's Secret ad poking fun at the thinner models. It wasn't Victoria's Secret that censored the ads though so it wasn't really fair. What if VS had responded by poking fun at LB's bigger models? Having said that, again, why is it such a stretch to think that Lane Bryant's slogan might not be 100% fair given how larger women are generally treated anyways? What about Lane Bryant is inherently easier to trust than any other big name company? Because they support a demographic that has, up until recently, been overlooked? Almost everyone has an agenda...

Also, research is good…this is what was said in response to the 2010 censorship mentioned above.

Originally Posted by :
"We produced a stunning commercial that celebrated the beauty of curvy women and proved that sexy doesn't have a size," says Jay Dunn, Vice President of Marketing for Lane Bryant. "Lane Bryant was able to successfully give a voice to real women. In return, women everywhere threw the networks - and the world - a curve with their overwhelming reaction to our protest."

How you use your words is important. Even when you're just attempting to make a public service announcement you gotta watch.

i think this links to the increased amount of 'skinny-shaming' that ive seen going around lately on the internet and in real life. Usually its started by women making pictures of marilyn monroe type women and than showing like nicole ritchie and saying monroe is hotter than ritchie or whoever they use it doesn't matter. its basically all saying that if you don't have a specific body shape, you're not beautiful, you're not a real woman, and you're not sexually attractive to the opposite sex. my friend does this in real life. we are both on a 'lifestyle' change but im the only one whose stayed on it, so now i guess because she feels bad for not having lost, but having actually gained weight, shes attacking me saying guys have told her personally they don't like skinny women and that my bf will leave me if I get to my ultimate goal weight of 125-135lbs. I tell her well if he does then he never really loved me and I deserve better anyways and I'm sure I will find someone that appreciates me for something other than my dress size. Its like there is a retaliation and jealousy on the go against smaller women or any woman who isn't 200+ lbs. I think its a lot of jealousy to be honest. Like " Hey we can't have that girls body shape so instead of trying to be healthier OR accepting that we are beautiful as we are, we are instead going to make that girl feel ugly and make men think theres something wrong with her , this way I get all the love and attention". Its childish and very highschool. Thats what I feel is going on anyways. Just my opinion.