This has all been so interesting to read - money seems to be one of those hot button issues in most marriages.
In my marriage, I'm the one who handles the bills and budget because I'm the one who is best suited to do it. Our money all goes into one joint account and I sit down with my husband a few times a year to discuss our budget, upcoming expenses and make sure we're on the same page with regard to financial goals (right now it's PAY.DOWN.DEBT!) but otherwise it's all me.
Sometimes that means we get into a similar situation where I have a few dollars "extra" in the account and my husband will think that means we can spend that money. For me that "extra" money isn't really extra - it's money I've worked hard to set aside against unexpected expenses. Looking at it from your husband's point of view, it's a lot of pressure to be the one who has to juggle that load and figure out where the money is going to come from when unexpected expenses rear their ugly heads.
For example, was he able to cover those extra "house" expenses last year because he had a savings built up? Now maybe he's trying to rebuild that savings to a comfortable level once again? Or did it catch him unaware and now he's trying to ensure that it doesn't happen again? If the money in savings is meant to be saved then you don't really have the "extra" money to buy curtains.
I'm lucky in that my husband and I have never (no, really) argued about money. We joke that you can't argue over something that you don't have - but really it all goes back to our basic marriage philosophy - 'it takes two *yes* and only one *no*".
If I say we don't have the money for something right now, he respects that because he's allowed me the control of our finances. If he says he really wants/needs something, I respect that and discuss with him how we can best meet that need.
Money is simply the object used to do the controlling.
I've been married twice. My 1st marriage ended due to money issues; much of like what you have described, but even to a more ridiculous extent. My husband wanted everything to be "equal" - so we went "half-sies" on everything. If the electric bill was $200, then we each paid $100. Phone bill was $50? Each paid $25. The rent was $300, so yes we each paid $150. He paid the car payment & insurance & gas & upkeep for his car & I paid for mine. FOOD? OMG, that's where it got crazy. He bought his own food & I bought mine. We even split up the cabinet & refrigerator space! We were each responsible for anything we bought, whether it was a magazine subscription or a new album, (yes, albums, not CDs back then, LOL!!!) But here's the kicker - HE MADE MORE MONEY THAN ME. Not much more, but more. So sometimes at the end of the week, I'd need $5 for gas to get me thru til payday, and he'd "LOAN IT" to me. Yes, I had to "pay him back" when I got paid.
This wore thin on my nerves and eventually destroyed our marriage. How? Well, when he got a better paying job (making $1200 a week & I was still bringing home $200/week) and WE STILL PAID HALF OF EVERYTHING....? How is that fair? How is that right?? He was gone for months at a time, and I was home taking care of the house, the yard, etc. We used to have horrible fights about money.
It ended when we had a fight over the phone about an either/or situation. Should I pay $50 for an exterminator or have the lawnmower fixed? NEEDED BOTH. So I did both - I used $50 of "his money" to pay the exterminator. He hit the roof over that. I maintained that it needed to be done & the money was available & since he could "afford it" that his money should "pay for it." We fought & argued & screamed until I said "I want a divorce!" and hung up on him. A few days later, after things had calmed down, he called & tried to "divvy up" ... he said if I would "stay in that house" and "take care of his things" until he got back home, that he would "pay the rent". WTF?!?!??! He wasn't willing to "pay the whole rent" while we were married, but now that we were getting a divorce, he would? What kind of f***ed up money management skills did he have, anyway?
Fast forward til now. I've been married to my 2nd husband almost 20 years. I am the check book keeper. I pay all the bills. I do our taxes. But I use OUR MONEY. Not his money/my money - OUR MONEY. He doesn't do any of the finances out of choice; he's not interested in it. I know what I'm doing, I'm organized & I'm quite talented when it comes to stretching a dollar. He's not very wanton for much - we spend $100/mo on our DirecTV & that affords him all the sports he can muster - which is his thing. I'm actually the spender & the saver for both of us. I can put us in the poor house just by buying shoes, jewelry & sunglasses! - BUT I DON'T. I have to keep tabs on my spending or we would go broke.
He "asks permission" when he wants to buy something - anything - whether it's a guy's night out bar tab or an extra pair of socks - not because he's needs my "OK" on it, but because he has no idea how much money is in our account. He makes way more money than I do. But he hasn't got the self-discipline to pay the electric bill on time. He'd forget it & then wonder why our electricity was cut off. So see? I do all that BECAUSE I'M GOOD AT IT.
But it took me some crazy mistakes to learn how to be good at it. My 1st husband wouldn't allow me control of the checkbook - EVER. My 2nd husband practically shoved it on me due to lack of interest in taking care of that household chore.
I think you should convince your husband (whatever it takes!!!) to let you take control of the finances for THREE MONTHS. The first month, he gets to "help you" with all the guidance he feels necessary. The other two months, you're on your own. Two months with you at the wheel. He can be an interested passenger, giving his input, but YOU should be responsible for ALL payments, bills, savings, etc. Your decision whether or not a room gets painted. Your decision whether or not the dog's vet bill comes before that room gets painted. Your decision whether or not to "switch to a vet who charges less" so that room can get painted.
If he cannot "allow" this change for 3 short months, then he simply does not TRUST YOU as his PARTNER. If he does allow it & you mess things up beyond repair, then you know you need more understanding (& possibly more practice) about your finances. (Coincidentally, this would also make him even more controlling of you than he is now - are you willing to take that chance?) If he does allow it & you do a good job, then he will learn to trust you as his partner, and not see you as someone he needs to control.
Money is the #1 reason for divorce in this country - more than infidelity or any other issue. This type of "experiment" could make or break your marriage. Are you willing to do that? Is he?
I am not sure if it has already been mentioned, but my suggestion is to have a joint account and both of you your own.
Have your payroll put 90% of your check into the joint and 10% into your personal account. That way you don't have to ask & if something is needed at the end of the month, you both can equally go half into the personal account.
You deserve to spend what you've worked hard for!
Remind your husband that you're glad he is responsible, but money also comes and goes.
You should definitely be allowed some spending money. I control the finances in our house, mainly because I'm good at math and the husband has terrible memory problems. So he calls and asks if we have money for something if he wants to spend it on something we don't normally do. Heck he even asks if we have money for gas lol, he doesn't bother keeping track of how much we have so it's just easier for him to ask me because I always know. Life is short and we don't waste it fighting over money
I'm a SAHM currently. So we live on DH's income. DH pays most of the bills, but I have access and know how to pay them. Some months I pay some due to his schedule. We've never had his and hers accounts or funds. It's just ours.
We actually both ask "permission" when spending more than a small amount on ourselves. For us, it has more to do with being open about purchases and getting an opinion. I can't remember the last time either one of us said no. We might discuss and decide it would be better to wait on something, but even that is rare. Neither DH or myself are huge shoppers.
It helps that DH's parents have a similar money style to my parents. In fact, we both try to not be like our parents. Lol. It can be hard to shed childhood perceptions, at times.
I think you need to have a heart-to-heart about how the situation makes both of you feel. Maybe you can work something out if you both understand where the other one is coming from? Communication is key in any situation and it sounds like this is something you need to find a resolution to together.
BTW, unless he/she is awesome in other ways, it may be time to find a different therapist. They don't sounds terribly helpful.
Thank you so much to everyone for your insight. Hubby and I had a "discussion" about this in the car ride over the weekend, but we are going to hopefully revisit it tomorrow and actually sit down and come up with a better plan, together. I am actually going to take some notes from this discussion and bring them up with him: like revisiting the envelope concept, potentially setting up separate accounts... but more importantly, about setting realistic money goals together and coming up with an actual financial plan. Because you guys are right... part of the frustration comes from the fact that what I can spend is nothing more than a "judgment" on his end. If I look at the budget and I literally see $0 available for spending that month, and that is according to the goals that I helped set up, then I will be just fine holding off on spending anything.
It took us a bit to solve this issue: about 1.5 months our first year of marriage. I took bookkeeping in high school and accounting in my business degree at college, but DH still wanted to try do the budget. We made a deal: I gave him 6 months -- if he goes into the red, I take it back. He went into the red by 1.5 months and gave it back gladly: he said he couldn't figure how I was doing it. Trust me, it wasn't easy as our income wasn't very high back then ...
I'm glad that you and your DH are talking about the situation becuz there is no reason with your joint income that you both couldn't have a PA: personal allowance each month. We each have one and get the same amount; it is considered a monthly expense just like our savings amount is. If one month we are tight, we may skip that month, but we agree on that first, and every expense is shared/discussed.
We have a joint account which both our incomes go into for all expenses; we then take our PA's out and put them where we want to. We can spend it or save it: as we both have savings accounts too (I usually save half mine). The budget pays for all expenses, so we need very little otherwise. I just use a budget book from the stationary store (2 pages for each month; budget on right side & groceries, household, xtras on the left -- so I can compare).
If the house needs something, it is then budgeted and/or saved for (ie curtains, etc). The same goes for us: if I want a new camera, I either have to save for it, or receive it as a gift, or we may split on it, if it's something we both want or need.
Yes, he is controlling. Keep pushing the issue, really.
Not married, but living together. When we moved in, we signed up for a joint account and we also have our own accounts. Every month we transfer money into the joint account for bills etc. She makes more money but not significantly more; however, she does have savings and I have debt I'm working hard to clear. So when we need big things, like when our TV burned out or neither of us could stand the mattress anymore, she buys them. In a few years when we need something else, like furniture or whatever, I'll buy that (and hopefully by them my debt will be better managed and I'll have a better paying job and some savings). Financial situations wax and wane, and I think it's important to realize that in dual-income relationships, the same situation does not always present. Neither of us are bitter about money (at least, I'm not- and I haven't heard that she is) but we do have control of what we earn- and I'm happy with that.
If that kind of thing doesn't fly for you guys, maybe you can push for a 'fun budget' or 'house budget' category to add. Because really, it's not like you're going out and buying a new wardrobe or something, this is something for your home that directly benefits him also.
i keep track of the finances in my marriage. not as a control issue, i'm just the one that has the time to do it. my husband and i have only been married a year (and together for 2 before that) but money is the one thing we never argue about. we've sorta made a pact to discuss all spending (even the small stuff - i asked him if i could spend 26 dollars on books heh) just so we both know where we are financially. the asking is more of a courtesy because both of us are aware of our limited budget, but we do discuss all spending simply so it's not a surprise and cause for a fight later.
You have gotten many good responses. I just want to add in my experience. DH and I have been married for 16 years. For the first 11 years we had a joint account and I paid all the bills. It was VERY stressful for me and after 11 years of marriage, even with counseling, money issues caused us to split up, to the point I did file for divorce. (Luckily, we were able to repair our marriage but it cause us problems)
After we got back together, we took a look at our expenses, how much each of us brought home and then split the bills as fairly as possible. I pay mine and he pays his and under no circumstances do I want him questioning where I spend my money as long as bills are paid.
You husband is controlling you with money, you earn it and you have a right to keep it. At the very least, insist that you transfer XXX amount into a separate account for yourself. If he comes up short on something than and only then can he ask you to dip into YOUR money to help out.
This is a really interesting thread. I had no idea how many married people kept separate accounts. Honestly, that's never really occurred to me before. I've been married twice, and the first time, we had a joint account and this time we have a joint account. With my current husband, he works full time and I am a full time student, so me paying for half of things just wouldn't work for us. With both of my marriages, though, it's generally been the guy who handed the actual paying of the bills (for whatever reason) out of the joint account, and I do the grocery shopping and most of the errands because I don't mind it. I've never been with anyone wealthy, but we decided for ourselves that we wanted to save X amount and the rest was kind of just in there for us to spend as we saw fit. I'd be irritated if DH came home with an expensive new toy without telling me about it, but we don't nickel and dime each other at all about finances. If I see the account is running low, I curb my spending, and he does the same. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it has always seemed to work for me.
DH and i dont have a single joint account together...that's just how it worked out and has always been fine with us...we each have a checking and a savings account, not always at the same bank either...he doesn't have a head for finances or the responsibility (not the right word - accountability?, whats the right word) to get the bills paid in a timely manner or keep track of what things we need to be paying...
we have joint things together such as a mortgage and a credit card account but even my other credit cards are just in my name, since they were from before we got married...
when i was in college, i worked and handled all my own finances...i got married and my DH didnt work due to his mental illness...i worked and took care of all the finances...later when i was single, i did the same thing...my current DH is fine with me continuing to do what i've proven good at for many many years...he really isn't all that interested in the finances...he asks me on payday how much i need to get bills paid and i tell him and he transfers it to my checking account, from which i pay all the bills
i also do our taxes and make sure we apply for the alaska permanent fund dividends before the deadlines...even before we were married i did his taxes for him LOL
that's just the way that works best for us...whatever is left from his paycheck after we pay bills, is up to him to use as he sees fit...sometimes he'll do stuff around the house, sometimes he'll put some into his savings, sometimes he'll pay down one of our credit cards a bit...some weeks it just all trickles away on lunches and a poker night etc...i really dont care as long as he's already put the money in to get bills paid
i have tried to explain to him my system of keeping track of things, how i budget and pay bills, how i balance the checkbook, where i file things...but he's honestly disinterested in it...sometimes he'll ask if we paid the mortgage lately LOL but really he trusts that i'll take care of it
the main reason that i want him to learn some of this is in case something happens to me or i am gone for an extended time, for instance if my elderly parents need help up north or they fall ill on the homestead
Thank you so much to everyone for your insight. Hubby and I had a "discussion" about this in the car ride over the weekend, but we are going to hopefully revisit it tomorrow and actually sit down and come up with a better plan, together. I am actually going to take some notes from this discussion and bring them up with him: like revisiting the envelope concept, potentially setting up separate accounts... but more importantly, about setting realistic money goals together and coming up with an actual financial plan. Because you guys are right... part of the frustration comes from the fact that what I can spend is nothing more than a "judgment" on his end. If I look at the budget and I literally see $0 available for spending that month, and that is according to the goals that I helped set up, then I will be just fine holding off on spending anything.
There's a difference between agreeing to no "fun" money and actually going through with that, long term. Money is like dieting--if you don't allow yourself a treat to get you through, you're more likely to crash off the diet. I realize you are hurt by the way your husband is treating you, but have you ever stopped to consider: "I'm not as worried about finances as my husband. SHOULD I be?" If you wish to be included in financial decisions, first off you need to regularly look at those spreadsheets of his. Life forces you to buy things often, so you need to do financial "checkups" often. Weekly, maybe. I, personally, pay off my credit card every week so I know exactly what I've spent and can catch any overspending trends before they become issues. Seeing cold, hard numbers prevents you from simply going on your personal "perception" of what your financial state is.
I know there are many savvy ladies out there. I am one of them. I know some of them. And I hate making gender-specific remarks. But on the flip side, a lot of women I know personally will spend money they have Right Now but don't realize that their purchase can affect their finances as much as a year down the line. Do your husband's spreadsheets project your finances for the next couple years? If not, they should. Then it would be apparent, in the grand scheme of things, whether your "fun" purchases are really as bad as he thinks. If he's right, then you're going to have to tighten your belt. It sucks, but that's what you have to do. If YOU'RE right, seeing the number may relax him and he won't be in "financial panic mode" all the time.
The camera he bought you---that was pure selfishness, though. That was a case of sudden greed, where he looked at your combined finances and perceived that all of that was his to do with as he pleased, and he broke his own rules to please himself--not you. I make far more than my husband, and have always been the breadwinner. We have separate accounts, and have divided up the bills so we each pay the same percentage of our salaries. I have, on occasion, been extremely tempted to buy something expensive for myself and not tell him how much it was. I have, on occasion, felt that because I worked harder and therefore have the better, higher-paying job I am Entitled to more than he is. And when I feel like that, I tell him immediately that I wish I could buy X thing, so that he can hold me accountable. The point is, I am not entitled just because I make more and do most of the budgeting, but I understand the temptation and it seems your husband had a moment of weakness.
You should have been allowed to then spend $150 on a present for the both of you to make up the difference. People say marriage doesn't keep score, but you MUST keep balance. Fairness is important for you two to trust each other. Why have you not stood up to him about this? If you make almost as much as he does, what are you afraid of? That he'll yell? Leave you? Cut off any access to your account? (...which is illegal, and wouldn't work anyway since you have a salary and can set up your own account.) If that is a fear you have, then money is not the primary issue here...
