I'm the "saver", and the one who handles the money. My fiancee is the "spender". With that said, I believe in "Pay Yourself First", and so we both get a bit of "fun money" each month, which we can spend on whatever we want with no questions asked.

You say that he told you that's not in the budget, but as a "saver" myself, I question that. Did he show you the numbers in a way that satisfied you to believe it's not in the budget?

If he's saying it's not possible because you have aggressive debt-repayment goals (or he has aggressive debt repayment goals and is imposing them), sit down and decide together if being a little less aggressive would make a more happy, conflict-free household.

From your description, it does not sound like you guys are barely afloat or behind on your bills. If you were, my advice would be significantly different.

You need to ask to be an active participant in setting the budget, and you both need to understand what your goals are. If you don't have the same goals, then that should be a topic of discussion.

Originally Posted by BalancedLife:
Blueberries,

We have tried the "envelope" system and it failed miserably. Mainly because it was so much upkeep, neither of us had the willpower to log every receipt according to its category. My husband felt that it didn't matter how much was left in each category, because his main concern was the bottom line. His response was something to the effect of "well, if the water heater blows, are we going to take money from 25 different categories to pay it off? what then? Now we have 25 categories in the red?"

I think the best bet would be for each of us to have our own accounts and then have a joint account. We each put into the joint account for all the house expenses according to the ratio of our income (in our case, about a 60/40 split) we each agree to a certain amount to go into savings, and then whatever is leftover is ours to do whatever we want. But my husband will probably again argue that we tried that once, and it didn't work, and that it's too hard to keep track of everything.

We have a nice long car ride on the way to his parents' house this afternoon. Maybe we'll talk about it...

That's exactly it, though. Have an emergency envelope set up so that if the water heater blows, it comes out of the designated fund (in this case, emergency). What would you do if the water heater blew up tomorrow under your current system? The reality of money being finite is that if the money's not there, you do have to pull from somewhere else to make it happen, and if it meant we had to pull from somewhere else we would. Envelopes don't go in the red, though. If there's no money in that category, there's no money. Negative is not an option.

I did forget to mention that we do each have our own discretionary envelope that gets funded as a part of each check. It's not much, because we're working toward other goals, but my money is mine to do with as I please, and so is his. If I blow it all on something frivolous, he doesn't care at all, but I do have to wait until the envelope gets funded again before I get something else for myself (unless it's a necessity that falls under a different category).

You mentioned not being able to log receipts. I'd encourage you to revisit that, because until you actually know what you're spending (both how much and on what), money is likely to be stressful in your life. It always was for us, but hasn't been for a long time. Not because we make gobs of money - in fact it's quite the contrary, but because we have a plan and work together. I know so many people who struggle with this issue in their marriages, and I really wish that everybody could know how stress-free it can be.

Best of luck to you!

Logging receipts, every single one, is SO key to keeping an accurate budget. It's a necessary discipline if your finances aren't in the best shape or your monthly budget doesn't have a LOT of play in it. I'd suggest rethinking that one, if you can. Seperate accounts in a marriage is never something I recommend, I think it just encourages hoarding and secrets, rather than sharing and openness, and that has no place in a healthy union (in my opinion, of course).

I'm not married, but I absolutely couldn't STAND this if my boyfriend and I had this system. My boyfriend is a little bit older and has a stable salary. I, on the other hand, am finishing college, and actually won't be able to work for the next few months due to student teaching. (I've saved up a lot of money to cover me during this time.) We have separate accounts, and we really just try and split everything we can. Groceries, bills, whatever, but we both realistically know that I can't afford to pay as much as he does. But we have NO BUDGET. Oh my God, I know, but we've never really needed one. We keep an eye on our accounts and just know what we can or can't afford, and we both feel better having rainy day funds. We also make a rule to never buy anything on credit. I'd say my bf and I might start pooling our money when I get a stable, better paying job, but for right now, it works.

Separate accounts is very normal and easy to me, but I might be a little biased as well. My parents have separate accounts, and they both handle the finances together. I never remember them fighting over money. I don't know if this would work for you, but you definitely need to have a serious talk with your man. He needs to respect you and realize that you're competent enough to realize when you're over-spending. By the way he talked (you just starting to spend out of control), it doesn't sound like he really feels that right now.

Originally Posted by BalancedLife:
So, where we are today... my husband handles all the finances. He's very responsible about it, and his methods are meticulous - he has spreadsheets that go out 4-5 months in advance in an attempt to predict where we will be financially down the road. Since he is the one who does the finances, and I really don't have much involvement... I go to him for any and everything that involves spending money. And being that he is a very practical person, he hates it when I tell him I would like to buy something un-practical. And by un-practical, I mean anything that we don't absolutely need right now. If I want something, he usually asks me to give up something else in return... so I give up going out to eat 5 times so I can get new curtains. Just as an example.

...

I know in his mind, he feels he is keeping us safe from financial issues. However, I work full time just like him, and I feel frustrated at having him be the gatekeeper and having to ask permission to buy anything that costs more than $10.00... like I have no control over the money that I earn.

This is very much how my family's finances are set up. And we've made it work for us, but it took a lot of conversations. Our issue is that he feels (as the money manager) that it's his job to ensure we are financially stable. Whatever happens. That means living beneath our means to build up a big nest egg. It means that pulling from savings upsets him. It means that when I get sick, he starts worrying that we need a new car, or that we'll have major medical bills, and his mind starts budgeting for that. I had to understand that.

And he had to understand that when I feel financially restricted, it gnaws at me. That if I feel like I can't spend more than $10 at a time, I'll spend $10 -all the time-, and on stuff we don't "need". On the other hand, if I say "I want to buy curtains" and we agree on a budget for it, it might take me six months to find the curtains that are just right, possibly with some budget re-negotiation.

When we moved, part of the move was giving up my cleaning lady. I could have a cleaning service here, but money is a zero-sum game, and I'd have to give up weekly dinners out. Our income has been better than we predicted, and we could have both. But only as long as the income is good, and it's easier for us to not get into spending more than it is to cut back, and we both know that.

What was important to us wasn't how we did it. It wasn't the dollar thresholds, or the information (because I have all that). It was that we both understood the other's emotions and reactions to the situation and worked toward a solution that we could both live with.

That's what I was getting at - very wise, flourless. It isn't the specifics of the arrangement that are a problem in almost ANY situation, but how each party feels about them. The finances sound pretty good in this case, but the communication is in the pits and that is what needs works. It's a team effort, even when one spouse is doing most of the moneymaking or managing (as is the case in our household).

Your husband does sound too controlling in this matter....but sounds very responsible.

My wife would never stand for that. Our money is our money. We are both responsible people and both earn the money for our household. We do have separate accounts but both have access to "EVERYTHING" in them...although I can't recall ever needing to look at my wife's or her mine.

My checkbook is always on the counter and I balance it every week. Being a teacher her pay is always deposited into her account on a set date...and we always know how much. My pay on the other hand is not always the same, I am in construction. All the automatic pay bills come out of her account and all the rest out of mine. We buy what we need for ourselves. Any big ticket items we discuss together of course. Because I never use her account I pay zero attention to it. She has a debit card for my account which our grocery shopping comes out of. We go together sometimes and sometimes separate, so if it is at a time where my account is low, waiting for my check, I may mention to her to "credit" any purchases, this gives me 3 days before $$ comes out of the account, instead of debit in case I need to transfer money from my savings.

What about if you sat down with him and figured out how much "allowance" a week you feel you should have. Then set that money aside for a few months and see if the bills get paid as you figure. If they do, then you have a few months savings to start with and if it doesn't work, well you need another plan.

Good luck!

re:
 

Ok, that's good that you clarified and stated you have access to the money.

I think that you're saying the root of the problem is not the fact of being able to spend money, it's the fact that you have to ASK him to do it.

I think other people's ideas are good about the allowance thing. Even if it's $10 a week for both of you. Maybe ask him, what's an reasonable amount do you think for both of us to spend each week on whatever and then just set it aside.
That way you don't have have to ask for money.

I track the finances in our house and my husband (who is the saver type) has access to everything. He also can go out to the hardware store and buy stuff without needing to ask me. I find though there's a limit for that for which he WILL ask me (like maybe over 100 or something)

It's all about respect and trust.

.

I have to agree that I think the two of you need to talk (maybe with the therapist) about what is really at the bottom of this. You mentioned that you came from a household that could end the month with only $15 in the bank and of course, you saw that you survived, had a roof over your head and food in your mouth, so $15 in the bank doesn't seem scary.

Your husband, on the other hand, can feel not only scared that he can't provide if the level in the checking/savings account goes below a certain number, but possibly he may feel like he's a failure or that both of you aren't earning enough to have the same kind of affluent lifestyle that his parents gave him. (And it really depends on how much his parents told him about their expenses, because what he felt as a child may be different that what was actually going on in his parents' finances.)

I think the real question is to ask him how much money does he need to have in the savings/checking accounts to feel like he's not in danger of going underwater?

Also, I do agree that logging in receipts IS critical, especially if both of you are going to get involved in the finances (and you should, because heaven forbid an accident happens and he dies, how will you manage the household expenses?!). It doesn't have to be logging receipts forever, but it should be for a while so you understand what goes into each virtual "envelope."

Discussing which envelopes you need is also critical -- if you want to have an envelope for home decorations he needs to understand why you want that money. He may think that if the room isn't falling apart (in other words need REPAIR) that you shouldn't "invest" in making it prettier. You need to be able to tell him that making your home nicer is both good for your own psychological state of being (after all, you live in that room!) but also appreciates the home value (which is always a good thing in the long-term).

By discussing his fears of financial disaster and talking about your needs about fixing up the home or spending money on yourself, hopefully, you guys will be able to talk about what's really hiding behind the money control.

It's not really about the $10 here or the $50 dollars for a paint can. This is about how each of you perceive different things in this world and you two need to discuss it.

Then, the next time he's sweating bullets about the dog's teeth cleaning bill, you'll know it's not that he's upset that the dog needs vet care, but rather that he's afraid he'll be sharing the bowl with the dog if disaster strikes next month. That will hopefully give you the understanding to tell him that disaster won't strike (or if it does, that you two will get through it together) and that the dog can have his teeth cleaned after all.

Again, the issue isn't the money if both of you are making good salaries and earning the same. It seems like you just need to understand each other's desires and fears a little bit better in order to understand how it is reflecting in how the money is controlled.

Originally Posted by :
I think the best bet would be for each of us to have our own accounts and then have a joint account. We each put into the joint account for all the house expenses according to the ratio of our income (in our case, about a 60/40 split) we each agree to a certain amount to go into savings, and then whatever is leftover is ours to do whatever we want. But my husband will probably again argue that we tried that once, and it didn't work, and that it's too hard to keep track of everything.

That sounds reasonable. Prob because that's more or less what we do!

Why is it hard to keep track?

It isn't like I manage or care what is in my DH's allowance. That's his problem and honestly those allowance accts are small so it gets to micromanage place to be tracking those.

Paychecks go into main joint house. (A)

Transfer B into savings
Transfer C into DH's Allowance
Transfer D into My Allowance
Transfer E into flex house spending

Done. Just takes me a few minutes at my laptop and I note it on a spreadsheet.

Main joint takes care of all regular fixed bills. Flex takes care of non-monthly house things and food.

Consider budget percent calculators to see what your ranges are. There's lots online but here's one.

http://www.greenpath.com/university/...calculator.htm

When we were younger and had extra bills or problems, the first thing to cut back if savings wasn't enough cover the emergency was the allowance of course. Then the flex spending.

But you don't sound like you are in actual trouble. It sounds like his amount to feel "safe" is different that yours.

A.

I don't see anything tragic i this situation thankfully :). It seems your husband has solid, loving reasons for what he is doing. That of course doesn't mean it has to stay this way.

Imo the best way to solve this is by thinking looooong and hard what exactly bothers you, then think long and hard about compromises (half his-half your way) and THEN talk to him about it in a casual way.

I often have long discussions with my partner (6years living together, pretty much married without a ceremony you could consider us). Sometimes we agree to disagree and I buy something he doesn't want me to buy and in exchange I personally make sure we don't stay behind in our financial goals.

We have a common financial goal. We say "till the end of 2014 we want 100 grant in our savings acount" (or something) and we both work out the maths and anything I spend extra I have to work out how to "fix". Perhaps this is what you need? You could try to make a common savings goal and then he'll feel like you're responsible too? It has made me a more responsible person and I realised in the end that sometimes, just once in a while, he was right and other times I was :D

I have to say I see a lot of myself in your descriptions of your husband. I really feel for his anxiety about having enough savings, especially since you have had such expensive troubles with your house recently. I also look months out in our budget to see where we'll be squeezed and where we'll have excess.

You say that you have tried separate accounts, tried the envelope system, and tried logging receipts only to give up on all of them. Have you revisited the latest technology advancements in these areas? While I don't log receipts, every single purchase is tracked through Mint, which makes it very easy. You could also make virtual envelopes using Mvelopes. Perhaps check out some of these tools to see if they would be a benefit to you.

Part of the problem that I see is that your husband is somehow able to judge using his instinct and perhaps a little number-crunching whether or not you can "afford" a given purchase. However, if you used the envelope system or targeted savings accounts, either of you could look at the information and know that you can or cannot make a purchase. Targeted savings accounts, I think, would also be helpful to your husband in defining his peace of mind. If he won't be happy until you have $10,000 in savings designated for home repairs, of course he will keep saying no to purchases if you have a smaller balance than that total, or perhaps a little more if he thinks it is responsible for other buckets as well... What I'm saying is that he needs to explicitly define an endpoint. If you knew that you needed $10,000 in savings for your home then you would know that you can make a few extra purchases when that level has been achieved. It wouldn't be up to him to say yes or no but for the two of you to define together depending on your goals.

I think you husband, with the comment about going into the red with envelopes, isn't making a distinction between monthly to-be-spent envelopes and targeted savings goals. For instance, a grocery envelope is expected to be spent every month - up to but never over - and any excess could be diverted elsewhere. A savings goal is a pre-defined amount that you work toward saving (possibly in a separate account, possibly several goals in one account), and when you achieve it you can move on to other goals. (A bit like debt payment, but to your own savings.) Which exactly is he trying to do now? Is it written down or all in his head?

What my husband and I do is keep targeted savings account for every periodic but non-monthly expense (i.e. car insurance, season tickets, dentist, optometrist). This helps our monthly budget immensely because we aren't trying to float big expenses on our paychecks for that month but rather have money set aside. We don't execute this perfectly but switching to this system has helped my peace of mind immensely (again I think I am like your husband in this way). You can read about our accounts here with a brief explanation of why we do it.

Your goals are valid as well as your husband's. I'm glad you have access to all the accounts but he needs to be more transparent in how he decides what you can and can't afford. I hope your therapist can help each of you see the other person's side a bit better - I suspect, as others have commented, that you husband feels very insecure with your current savings level. But he should define for you what savings would be adequate so you can work together to achieve it and move beyond this stage.

Life is too short to be restricted so much with money. My husband and I are not frivolous by any means, but we do try our best to enjoy our money while still keeping a cushion in the bank. We have a checking and a saving, we agree that we will never let the savings go under X amount and every time we run into some extra money we add most of it to X amount which becomes our new goal not to dip under. That being said we are both aware of all of the bills. He pays some I pay some but I know what he's paying for and vice Vera so then we are always aware of how much we can spend from the checkings. It works very well. He tried to be controlling when we first got married because I was a stay at home mom back then but I put my foot down from the beginning and I'm glad I did. Stand up for yourself, you might fight about it for a while but he'll come around. Especially if you make your own money you have a very legitimate right.

My husband is a SAHD and I make low six-figures. Even back when we both worked, all of our money went into a joint account. We were married, and I take the "what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine" seriously. He can and does get the occasional Starbucks or drop $30 at the mall or Target without mentioning it to me, and that is cool because I drop the occasional $10 on lunch in the city without reporting it to him. I think it would be demeaning ot him if I made him ask me for permission to buy smaller things, and he knows I am a saver for the most part so he reigns himself in at times. For bigger purchases, we always talk about it with each other.

Now, OP, I do not know why a true envelope system wouldn't work for you. Something like an allowance, if you will. I'd probably call it "petty cash" or "discretionary funds" to make it sound more neutral, actually. Why not just take one $50 each month that you can spend however you want, no questions or judgments from your husband? That works out to little more than $10 per week, which is really a pittance if you think about it. What is his objection to that? Doe she feel a need to be a father figure to you so much so that he can't let go enough to give you that freedom?

With my parents, my stepfather pays all the bills and manages the savings. My mother gives my stepfather most of her paycheck but she keeps some money to pay for the groceries plus buying what she wants. Unless you are living nearly pay check to pay check, there is no reason that you shouldn't really have $50 or whatever each month that is yours.

With my husband and myself, I manage all the money. I pay all the bills and manage our savings. My husband can buy whatever he wants but he hardly ever buys anything. I can buy whatever I want but I will discuss purchases over a certain amount with my husband. We talked about our financial goals when we first merged accounts and although my husband came from a more affluent (although frugal) household, his idea is that life is too short to squirrel away every penny.