[nina125]

I am going to have to disagree with fitness4life. Not all people seek out friendships hoping that it will "develop into something more". I have male friends that I have genuine affection & consider them more like my bothers. They never made advances at me & neither did I when we were all single. Similarily, my husband has life-long female friends with whom he was never attracted to and they still continue to be friends. Of course, they all became both our friends after we got married, and my husband tags along when I visit my guy friends and vice-versa.

I also work in a very male-dominated industry and have to make male friends at work & outside of work in order to advance in my career. My husband understands and support that.. He knows that I go to happy hours for strictly networking purposes, and he also knows that he will be the first person I call if I had too much to drink.

And yeah, you would only be someone's "list girl" if you allow yourself to be one. I would never be friends with someone who considered me that.

Moreover, if one of my friends dump me the minute they get into a relationship, I too would never give them the time of day when they decide to rekindle the friendship. I'd rather invest in life-long friends than shallow ones.

[krampus]

I'm not so naive as to think that most male-female friendships are 100% platonic - they never are unless neither of you are attracted to each other at all - but I also don't see why it's my boyfriend's business who I text. I certainly couldn't care less if he talks to girls, even flirting wouldn't bother me much. Both of us have plenty of people in our respective "orbits" who are just waiting for the day we break it off and are back on the market, but too bad. We've agreed to be exclusive to each other and we honor that agreement.

[sacha]

My best friend of now 14 years is male. We do not hang out alone - ever - now that we are both in committed relationships (I have been with my fiance for 4 years, 1 child together, and my friend is married to his long-term girlfriend). When you are young and casual, I really don't think it's a big deal - but as life goes on, you get a bit older, you have marriage/kids involved, you get quite committed, it becomes rather disrespectful to still spend time alone with the opposite sex without your partner. That's just my opinion and it works for us.

Whether you don't want each see other opposite-sex friends alone ever or you are a member of a swingers sex club, it does not matter, as long as both partners are on the same page.

[Esofia]

Question for all the people who feel that you mustn't have opposite-sex friends when you are in a relationship: how does this work if you are in a world where not everyone is heterosexual? I'm including bisexuality here.

[djs06]

Originally Posted by Esofia

Question for all the people who feel that you mustn't have opposite-sex friends when you are in a relationship: how does this work if you are in a world where not everyone is heterosexual? I'm including bisexuality here.

Ha, I was thinking about that as I read through this thread. I'm a lesbian and my closest friends are straight females. I guess the equivalent for me would be my girlfriend getting jealous if I had other lesbian friends? I don't know. Same is true for my girlfriend- I don't get jealous of her female friends, and they are potentially "threats" to me, the same way male-female friends would be to a straight person.... The whole thing perplexes me. You either trust someone or you don't.

[nina125]

Originally Posted by Esofia

Question for all the people who feel that you mustn't have opposite-sex friends when you are in a relationship: how does this work if you are in a world where not everyone is heterosexual? I'm including bisexuality here.

You are screwed

[alaskanlaughter]

Originally Posted by djs06

Ha, I was thinking about that as I read through this thread. I'm a lesbian and my closest friends are straight females. I guess the equivalent for me would be my girlfriend getting jealous if I had other lesbian friends? I don't know. Same is true for my girlfriend- I don't get jealous of her female friends, and they are potentially "threats" to me, the same way male-female friends would be to a straight person.... The whole thing perplexes me. You either trust someone or you don't.

my thoughts exactly

[LiannaKole]

Originally Posted by pointless2011

I mean I know where he is coming from, I would not be ok with him texting other girls even if they are friends..

Personally, in my relationships I don't tend to accept it well when my boyfriends are too insecure or possessive (had a couple of those, and not going back). At the same time, if I expect to be able to hang out with other guys, I don't expect them to not be able to text or hang out with other girls.

I think if you're not okay with him texting any girl other than you - even if she's a friend - then it's not totally unfair of him to expect something similar from you.

[fitness4life]

Nina, I see your point. I wonder how old you are. This may be a generation-gap thing. IDK.

I, too, have guy friends at work, but I don't think that applies to the OP's original question.

To clarify, the life-long friend in my case...My husband at the time was roommates with him for 6 months. That's how I met my H. My H demanded control of the couple-friendship. I simply backed off and let guys be guys. I didn't know at the time, that my H knew of that friend's affection for me. So the friend, knowing that my husband knew he liked me, was in full understanding why I was being cut-off from my life long friendship with him. This all went down after 5 years of dating and 2 additional years of marriage. It's not at all like I just dropped him for a new relationship. I'm certainly not that shallow and short-sighted.

[sacha]

For those of you who think "you either trust someone or you don't", I'm curious to know where the line is drawn. As someone who also worked in a male-dominated profession, I've seen that certain situations (usually with liquor involved) can cause even the best example of husband or wife to do things that they would not normally do. As relationships grow, kids get thrown in, stresses of marital life, things can happen. I've seen it over and over again.

IMO, it is naive to think that certain situations (spending time with 'work' friends, going out to parties without spouse, long-term separation ie. army leave) do not threaten a marriage and leave it vulnerable to infidelity. Completely naive. Yes, trust is trust, but even the kindest people can make mistakes in a moment of poor judgment. Those situations are best avoided.

Again, I am a firm believer in platonic opposite-sex friendships, in fact my best friend is male and my fiance is still friends with his long-term ex, but the idea of either of us hanging out with/going to diner with/spending time with ALONE is completely out of the question. IMO for us, it is a boundary.

[djs06]

Originally Posted by sacha

For those of you who think "you either trust someone or you don't", I'm curious to know where the line is drawn. As someone who also worked in a male-dominated profession, I've seen that certain situations (usually with liquor involved) can cause even the best example of husband or wife to do things that they would not normally do. As relationships grow, kids get thrown in, stresses of marital life, things can happen. I've seen it over and over again.

IMO, it is naive to think that certain situations (spending time with 'work' friends, going out to parties without spouse, long-term separation ie. army leave) do not threaten a marriage and leave it vulnerable to infidelity. Completely naive. Yes, trust is trust, but even the kindest people can make mistakes in a moment of poor judgment. Those situations are best avoided.

Again, I am a firm believer in platonic opposite-sex friendships, in fact my best friend is male and my fiance is still friends with his long-term ex, but the idea of either of us hanging out with/going to diner with/spending time with ALONE is completely out of the question. IMO for us, it is a boundary.

I think it's definitely past the line when the OP's boyfriend "flips out" when she talks to someone of the opposite sex. To me, that sounds controlling and not very healthy. And I think that's different than the slippery slope of having drinks with coworkers and acting inappropriately, or responding to relationship stressors in unanticipated ways, etc.

I do think that friendships change when you get married or are in a committed, long-term relationship. Of course there is time for friends and having friendships and activities outside of a relationship is totally healthy. But you do need to prioritize in a way that confirms your SO as your primary, most significant relationship.

[nina125]

Originally Posted by sacha

For those of you who think "you either trust someone or you don't", I'm curious to know where the line is drawn. As someone who also worked in a male-dominated profession, I've seen that certain situations (usually with liquor involved) can cause even the best example of husband or wife to do things that they would not normally do. As relationships grow, kids get thrown in, stresses of marital life, things can happen. I've seen it over and over again.

IMO, it is naive to think that certain situations (spending time with 'work' friends, going out to parties without spouse, long-term separation ie. army leave) do not threaten a marriage and leave it vulnerable to infidelity. Completely naive. Yes, trust is trust, but even the kindest people can make mistakes in a moment of poor judgment. Those situations are best avoided.

Again, I am a firm believer in platonic opposite-sex friendships, in fact my best friend is male and my fiance is still friends with his long-term ex, but the idea of either of us hanging out with/going to diner with/spending time with ALONE is completely out of the question. IMO for us, it is a boundary.

My husband knows that he is always invited any social (work/family/friends) event that I go to. However he prefers not to go if it is a after hours work-related or if there if it is with a bunch of my girlfriends (straight or gay) out at a bar. My husband always drives me to & from these events because he knows that I don't handle alcohol very well, and not because he suspects my alcohol-induced judgement.

You are right about the part that anything like alcohol, long-term separation, etc can possibly lead to infidelity. However, my point is that no amount of policing is going to stop your SO from cheating if that is where they are heading.

[Esofia]

I really don't buy the "things happen by accident" excuse. It's tantamount to saying, "Oops, I tripped and landed in someone's groin and got stuck." I have never ever heard of a consensual sexual encounter where someone was unaware, due to drugs or alcohol or any other reason, what their relationship status was at the time of the encounter.

An accident is something like when I'd just got together with my partner and was in the new-couple stage of not being able to keep our hands off each other, and a good friend of mine, another bi woman I've known for years and have zero romantic or sexual interest in, was round at my flat telling me about her horrible day at work. I gave her a comforting hug - I hug my friends, I think this is normal, and incidentally I don't fret about how long we hug for - and then absent-mindedly gave her a kiss on the shoulder, on auto-pilot because I'd been spending so much time wrapped around my new partner. I immediately froze in horror, said, "Sorry, wrong person!" and we fell about laughing. Apparently the look on my face was absolutely priceless, and it's been a standing joke with us ever since. That's an accident. Falling into bed with someone isn't an accident, though it can be a mistake. It's still a mistake that people are aware of committing at the time, and which is rarely committed without any prior thought at all.

I have many friends who are oriented towards women and have never engaged in infidelity with any of them. Occasionally there's a small spark, that's normal, it happens between humans, you just laugh it off if it's not something you want, and that can be because of fidelity issues or simply because you realise that you fancy each other slightly but aren't suited as a couple. More often, there is affection and laughter and mock-flirting - there's a running joke with another friend of mine (another bi woman, and again there is zero romantic or sexual interest) that I'm having an affair with her incredible knee-length auburn hair.

I'm less likely to mock-flirt with a straight man, I admit, there's that daft "When Harry Met Sally" expectation (by the way, guys, that's a film, films aren't interested in showing normal healthy relationships because those don't have enough drama), so it's often with gay men or queer women and there's a certain level of campness which helps us situate it firmly as a joke and not something to be acted upon. I'd categorise plenty of the comments I see on this forum as jovial mock-flirting, such as when someone posts a progress photo and someone else says, "You look smokin' hot, darling!" I haven't noticed anyone leaping in on such a comment to say, "Hey, you two, break it up, you have husbands to think of here!"

If you find that you are unable to prevent yourself from having sex with someone of your preferred gender the minute you are alone with them, then you need psychiatric help. If you enjoy cheating on your partners and get a rush from it, then you need to learn how to treat people well in a relationship and again, therapy would probably be useful here. If you find that you are honestly constrained by being with just one partner and that you love more than one person at once, then explore polyamory and learn about honestly negotiated plural relationships. If you don't trust your partner not to cheat on you, or don't feel that you can be trusted not to cheat on them, and your relationship is meant to be monogamous, then for heaven's sake don't go charging into marriage without sorting that issue out first. Not all people are suited to monogamy, and there's nothing wrong with that, there are many ways of loving people, but there is something wrong with deliberate deception, which is an entirely different matter. Incidentally, my friends who are polyamorous are also perfectly capable of being faithful to their partners, and indeed are far more conscientious about that sort of thing than many of the supposedly monogamous folks I know. Negotiation with your partner, and honesty with yourself, are important in all flavours of relationships.

[krampus]

Originally Posted by sacha

For those of you who think "you either trust someone or you don't", I'm curious to know where the line is drawn. As someone who also worked in a male-dominated profession, I've seen that certain situations (usually with liquor involved) can cause even the best example of husband or wife to do things that they would not normally do. As relationships grow, kids get thrown in, stresses of marital life, things can happen. I've seen it over and over again.

IMO, it is naive to think that certain situations (spending time with 'work' friends, going out to parties without spouse, long-term separation ie. army leave) do not threaten a marriage and leave it vulnerable to infidelity. Completely naive. Yes, trust is trust, but even the kindest people can make mistakes in a moment of poor judgment. Those situations are best avoided.

Again, I am a firm believer in platonic opposite-sex friendships, in fact my best friend is male and my fiance is still friends with his long-term ex, but the idea of either of us hanging out with/going to diner with/spending time with ALONE is completely out of the question. IMO for us, it is a boundary.

I don't know, even if I'm blackout drunk dirty dancing with a handsome stranger on vacation, I still know my boundaries. Obviously some situations are best avoided but even in the most compromising scenario, it's BS to "forget" how to behave.

I'd like to fist-pump Esofia and everything she's posted so far. She knows what's up!

Edit: Of course I'm speaking as someone in a 5 year long "casual" relationship with no "future" so to speak, we are basically "seeing each other" and not on the marriage or family track.

[astrophe]

For those of you who think "you either trust someone or you don't", I'm curious to know where the line is drawn.

The line to what?

In the case of wigging out over a text from a friend when dating? That would be a red flag to me. Because that's not an unreasonable thing -- to have a friend text. There are some controlling predators who want to isolate you from your friends and family... rush the relationship to exclusivity too fast... want to get all up in your biz too soon...that would set off alarms for me.

There's also needy, insecure people who need constant reassurance for their own low self esteem. That wouldn't interested me in a dating partner either. That's tiresome to have to "prove" your trustworthiness to them over and over.

As someone who also worked in a male-dominated profession, I've seen that certain situations (usually with liquor involved) can cause even the best example of husband or wife to do things that they would not normally do. As relationships grow, kids get thrown in, stresses of marital life, things can happen. I've seen it over and over again.

So... monogamy didn't work for these people? Why promise that then? Because having one drink is not the gateway excuse to forgetting your promises. "Ahhhh! I had a drink! I can't manage to be a decent person now and keep it in my pants!"

Going steady, married AND mono, married but open, poly -- whatever. There's a lot of ways to love. The point is to honor whatever your personal agreement is with your partner. Be honest. And if you aren't seeking the same things from the relationship, or if over time you have fallen out of love, or the former arrangement no long works and you can't come to a new agreement... well, break up clean first before starting anew then if you cannot renegotiate new terms.

Otherwise we're right back at the start again with the predator people seeking to abuse/misuse for their own weird jollies. They flat out don't CARE if they hurt their partner, or get off on the thrill of cheating and getting away with it or feel entitled to use whoever or...

IMO, it is naive to think that certain situations (spending time with 'work' friends, going out to parties without spouse, long-term separation ie. army leave) do not threaten a marriage and leave it vulnerable to infidelity. Completely naive.

Well, sure. But I think the root of all those is not getting needs met in the relationship and/or not being realistic.

You can be married, at home together every night, never relate and feel lonely as all get out. You could also have all your needs met, stay out all night dancing and come home and stay true. So?

It still boils down to being honest and actually relating to your partner and having a relationship with them.

A.