[Eliana]

Before I get into this, I should say I am ridiculously analytical and am able to discuss this quite matter-of-factly.

My mom has been in pain for the past 20 years and for 20 years I have prayed for nothing more than peace for her, whatever that may mean. She has threatened suicide multiple times over the years, but now she's talking about it daily and we know the end is coming. My step-father is consider putting her in a nursing home at 61 because he can really no longer care for her. Amongst a host of other issues she has gastro-paresis which means her stomach and esophagus are paralyzed. She's in the final stage which means she can only tolerate chicken broth and is literally starving to death. She's lost 20 pounds since Christmas, and fortunately or unfortunately, has a lot of fat to live on. It's going to be a long process.

My question that I am toying with in my often deluded head is that she has access to medications allowing her to take her own life rather easily. She knows it and has told us all her plan. She's starting to give her things away and on my last visit wanted help writing out how she obtained many of her possessions, heirlooms and such. When I mentioned to my aunt (mom's sister) that putting her in a nursing home certainly will end her life, my aunt suggested we take the medications away from her.

Is it heartless of me to want my mom to have access to the medication? I don't want to remove them from her. Should I want to take them away?

[Shannon in ATL]

I'm sorry that you are going through this honey.

You are going to get so many different answers to this question.... All I can say is that in your situation I wouldn't want to take them away either, and wouldn't want them taken away from me if I were your mom.

I don't disbelieve in the concept of improbable recovery, but I believe more in the concept of death with dignity in an end stage situation.

[XLMuffnTop]

This must be so very hard to deal with and for so long!

While I don't think there's a clear right and wrong, personally, I think it would be merciful to leave medication accessible in the room. It's obviously not a rash decision on her part as she's been talking about it for a while, or so your post makes it seem.

My mum's father-in-law was just about 90 and was really starting to have a lot of medical problems. One night, he called 911 for paramedics and called my mom and step-dad to come. No one was able to make it soon enough. They said his lungs had started to fill with fluid and he probably felt like he was drowning. Instead of going out that way, he shot himself with the gun he kept under his pillow.

Is this wrong? I don't think so but as Shannon stated, you will get many different answers based on many different beliefs and religions.

I hope you and your mother both find relief, whatever that may be.

[pinkflower]

Being a caregiver is such a difficult job. I imagine you & your step-dad, are dealing with a lot of things, guilt, stress, relief etc. about putting her in a nursing home, and they are all normal.

I worked in Hospice care, and will tell you that this is a common issue, you are not alone in feeling like this, and neither is your mom. I've had many families ask us about ending life early, especially when they or their loved one is in pain or really struggling. Is she receiving hospice care? There can be so much help and support for her and for you and your family. A nurse, CNA, social worker, Dr., options to receive massage therapy, music therapy, volunteers to sit with her etc. all who will come to her and help you all sort out your emotions/ease some of the burden of being a care giver.

You mentioned she's in pain.... Sometimes patients are afraid of the pain (or even afraid to admit they're in pain because they're afraid of becoming addicted to the meds), and can only think about dying, but once on proper pain medicine, they are able to peacefully live out the rest of their days until their death comes naturally. A hospice team can help you all sort out your emotions, provide options, and comfort. They truly are the experts with how to manage end of life care and pain to make her as comfortable as she can be. Just know that if they are informed of her wishes, they will try to safeguard her from having the resources to take her life (unless youre in Oregon, Montana, or Washington)

I'm so sorry you're going through this, there are no words to describe how difficult it is, especially since it has been going on for so long.Your mom will find comfort just knowing you're there to listen to how she's feeling.

[beerab]

*hugs* I have nothing to say except that I'm sorry for what you are going through and it's not heartless of you to feel the way you are at all. If anything it's because you have so much love for your mother that you feel this way.

I agree I wouldn't want to take anything away from her.

[bargoo]

Does she have an Advanced Directive ? This plus Hospice Care should make things nuch gentler.

[saef]

Oh, Eliana, I am so sorry you & your mother are enduring this.

My father's slow, painful & fully conscious death from stomach cancer back in November 2008 is still so very fresh in my mind. He was also starving, though that wasn't what finally ended his suffering.

I can't say enough good things about the hospice workers. They were such a godsend. So many different kinds of caregivers & counselors came to my parents' house to help. They kept me posted with phone calls & gave me a clearer picture of what was happening than either of my parents could bear to give me -- until I took a leave of absence from my job & moved back into the house. Then they gave counseling to the whole family, much needed. Their guidance was invaluable to me. I think my head would have exploded without it.

And as for my father, he very much needed someone neutral, someone professional, someone outside of the family to be with him & talk with him & help get him through this.

I hope they can be helpful to you as well.

[Eliana]

This is second time I'm hearing about hospice. I always thought they were brought in at the very end, for the last few days. I hadn't realized they could provide extended care. The thing about my mom is that we just don't know. This could be the end or it could drag out for a very long time. She's firing all her doctors and refusing medical care at this point, so we're just not sure.

[Kitsey]

I'm so sorry your family is going though this.

That being said, I would not take anything away from her. I recently became a CNA and started working in a Long Term Care Facility last month. It's really made me think about my own life and what I would do if it were me in their shoes. I've got to admit, that if I still had the choice, I would never want to live in a nursing facility. I see so many people every day who are just lingering on with no choice...with almost no quality of life left. It's heartbreaking.

My own mother (who is in fine health) has made it clear to me since I was young that she would never let herself end up in a nursing home, and I would support her choice if it came to that, hard as that is to admit.

[pinkflower]

Originally Posted by Eliana

This is second time I'm hearing about hospice. I always thought they were brought in at the very end, for the last few days. I hadn't realized they could provide extended care. The thing about my mom is that we just don't know. This could be the end or it could drag out for a very long time. She's firing all her doctors and refusing medical care at this point, so we're just not sure.

Generally, they qualify if the person is in the last stages of terminal illness, and no longer wants to seek life saving treatment and wants to focus on quality of care. Generally, they are admitted if they are anticipated to have 6 months or less in life. Obviously no person has a time stamp, and it was relatively common to have patients stay on for much much longer than 6 months. The dr just signs a certification certificate every 6 months and they continue to be eligible as long as they continue to decline in their health. I didn't ever to admissions, but it definitely doesn't hurt to call

The social workers can even help you find a group home that is more home-like and much cheaper than finding in home care, and probably a nursing home. If you, your mom, or step dad have any questions, please feel free to ask (I'm a social worker)

[berryblondeboys]

She should have choices and taking away the meds takes away her choices and that to me is inhumane. it really is a crime that we as a society support euthanasia for our pets, but not for our loved ones.

My mother in law is a doctor and she has said that when she feels she no longer can live a meaningful life, she will take her own life with meds. And we respect that wish and would not intervene.

[Ursula745]

I also think hospice can be pulled on and off her case as needed. She improves, they dismiss themselves. She needs them again, they come back. Also, I think hospice is covered under medicare if she has that, but check for sure. My Mom's hospice care was covered completely. While she was in hospice, the nursing home, hospital, treatment, everything was covered.

[jules1216]

My parent had cancer surgeries within a week of each other the summer of 2009 and died two months apart in 2010. I watched my Mom die a painful death...I say dont withold the medication...my Mom was the type who took one Tylenol when she had a headache...we had to encourage her to use the pain meds.

[fatferretfanatic]

I cannot begin to imagine what you guys are going through. You are a brave woman, and so is your mother. I would be feeling exactly the same as you-I don't think that taking the medication will solve anything, except keeping your mother in constant pain. I am not in your shoes, so I'm not telling you what you should do. I do think however, as someone else said, that I'd rather die with dignity. My husband's grandfather, the man who married us at his home was in a rather painful situation. He was dying, and didn't want to go to the hospital; he told hubby that he knew he'd never leave. He wanted a peaceful journey at home, and not poked and prodded with needles and brought back with medications time after time, which is what ended up happening. His wife and children took him to the hospital against his will, and he died in the hospital. We were there the day he died, in his crowded hospital room. But, we both wished he had been able to live his last few days on his own terms. I am not saying that the kids and grandma were wrong for taking him in, since they were doing it out of love-but there is value to letting a person choose for themselves their final fates.

[bargoo]

Originally Posted by fatferretfanatic

I cannot begin to imagine what you guys are going through. You are a brave woman, and so is your mother. I would be feeling exactly the same as you-I don't think that taking the medication will solve anything, except keeping your mother in constant pain. I am not in your shoes, so I'm not telling you what you should do. I do think however, as someone else said, that I'd rather die with dignity. My husband's grandfather, the man who married us at his home was in a rather painful situation. He was dying, and didn't want to go to the hospital; he told hubby that he knew he'd never leave. He wanted a peaceful journey at home, and not poked and prodded with needles and brought back with medications time after time, which is what ended up happening. His wife and children took him to the hospital against his will, and he died in the hospital. We were there the day he died, in his crowded hospital room. But, we both wished he had been able to live his last few days on his own terms. I am not saying that the kids and grandma were wrong for taking him in, since they were doing it out of love-but there is value to letting a person choose for themselves their final fates.

This is why an advanced directive is so important.