Oh, boy. His legitimate need to ejaculate regularly to prevent future prostate problems is the very least of their issues....
I can tell all you women the reason guys do it is because it feels good! There is no guy out there under the age of 50 worried about prostate problems...most of us over 50 aren't either
I'm not saying she should dump him "just because of depression." But I've lived with depressed people who were untreated. It is challenging, and in the end both got treatment. But it would have spared a lot of pain and years of anguish had they both sought treatment SOONER rather than later. Having been there twice, I'm not all keen to go there again. To me, refusing treatment would be a deal breaker. I couldn't be with an untreated depressed person and have to live in the line of fire again. But that's just me.
I don't think it is harsh to point out she could think about where her personal limits are and clarify what she's prepared to do/not do since he says he's depressed and feeling aimless.
Quote:
I am going to be making an appointment for marriage counseling. He has stated that he doesn't feel like it will help, but I'm not ready to just throw away those 5 years. I am willing to fight, but only if he is. I'm not going to fight to hold on to something that is just going to burn me again.
This stuff may be something she wants to talk to her counselor about. Like... am I ok living with an untreated depressed person? Am I ok living with a depressed person only if they are in counseling and making an effort? What is "effort?" Am I ok being apart for a while if this is what it takes for healing to happen? Do I have a support system for me?
And it goes twofold if she is depressed too. He probably has to think it all over from his perspective too. Is HE ok living with... etc.
Sometimes when both are depressed, they can feed off each other and get stuck in negative cycles. The best solution for healing may include a separation to break out of that. Then see later about regrouping or not.
Only the two in the relationship can work on this and seek professional aid.
I guess i was just trying to put out a couple of points that involved the idea that BOTH of them were a part of the path that they've gone down, not just him.
I think what the guy did was totally inexcusable within the boundaries of the relationship they had, but I felt like he was being demonized.
If that didn't come across properly, I apologize.
atreyyena, you make very good points. What if he was interested in all that before? I have communicated with him, apologizing for being so judgemental and making him feel like he couldn't talk to me about those things before. We've talked this evening and he's told me they are just fantasies. I'm sure a lot of guys have similar fantasies so now I don't feel so bad. And I have been reading books on understanding how men work and I completely agree that BOTH of our choices led us here, not just his. I have apologized to him for neglecting his needs and we are working on that issue. I have also made it clear to him that his needs are valid and I respect them. We both agree that we love eachother and want to work on our relationship.
EZ- I have learned that the porn thing is completely physical and have been making peace with that. And I agree that he did cross the line by looking at pics of someone he knew. he has admitted to being lonely because of my neglect and he even said that when he was chatting it was mostly just chatting, not flirty, but just conversation. What he wasn't getting from me. My eyes have realy been open and I am working on never letting the man I love feel neglected by me ever again.
I appreciate everyone's point of view on this subject and EZ it has been a huge help hearing from a guys pov as well. He really is a wonderful man, and I'm going to help him find himself again.
Honey, it goes without saying that we all feel for you that you are having this kind of struggle in your marriage. I will also send up some prayers for you too. You are a cutie and you deserve to be loved and cherished and wanted, just like we all do. We all want that for you too! BTW, on losing over 100 lbs -- that is sooo awesome!
Several things bothered me about what your DH says -- even though I am a social worker/counsellor, I will speak personally here: This man admits he had this problem before getting married and didn't tell you (withholding important info). He is obviously addicted to porn; there is no doubt of that or he could have and should have stopped when you asked him to (simply becuz it hurts you).
Plus, the fact that he went on Craiglists to SHOP for another women is breaking the marriage vows of you and you only ... fidelity is the word! Then to ask you to do things that break those vows again, and to ask permission to cheat on you (adultery is the word) is bothersome to me also; this is going from bad to worse, in my opinion.
I think the things he said were very hurtful, but you need to ask some important questions of this man. Does he want to stay married? Does he intend on cheating and continuing offensive behavior? Is he willing to get both personal and marriage counselling? Is he willing to grow up and be the man and husband he promised to be?
Sex is not the cure for all that ails ya; where people got that idea from, I don't know. But trying to cure his outofcontrol desires by delving into more illicit behavior will only make the situation worse, not better; for you and him. You are young and if you don't get the answers you need to those important questions, you need to know that there are men out there that would love you the way you need to be loved. Don't apologize for being you.
I'm very old-fashioned myself; I DO think porn is a mind form of adultery, but that is my opinion and my right to it. We each have to be honest and ask where we draw the line at for our happiness. Don't waste untold years trying to fix someone who doesn't want to be fixed or saved or helped or changed ...
Women tend to be too self-sacrificing in marriage; I know, I do it myself sometimes. Remember that YOU matter too! YOU deserve happiness and peace and a marriage that doesn't compromise your personal values. I do understand that you want to try to save your marriage if you can; but like GARY reiterated, just be sure to draw the line where it needs to be drawn; he's a soldier, he should understand that.
Have you asked him if he's actualy cheated on you while you were gone, or when he's been away from you? If he has and hides it, he's exposing you to a lot of health dangers and you need to take that into consideration.
I think the fact that he refuses to stop watching porn is a clear sign that he doesn't respect you or the marriage.
Him blaming you for his actions is cowardly and WAY off base. My hubby NEVER has to beg for sex. He wants it, he gets it. We rarely go one day without it. Yet it didn't stop him from making out with another woman and sticking his hand down her pants. The blame was fully on his shoulders and he is taking steps to change. He stopped drinking, which was a main cause, and I know for sure, how hard that is for him, but he did it to keep our marriage intact.
I'd try the couples therapy first if he is willing, but he's already admitted he doesn't think it will work. You need to brace yourself for a possible seperation from him, if he refuses to change. Start saving some money up now, and if you need to leave, you'll be able to. If things work out, take a trip with him somewhere romantic.
If he does change and stops, you have to (as someone already said) really, truely forgive him and move past it. Its SO hard to do, but it can be done.
I am so sorry your going through this right now. {{hugs}}
i'm sorry Eve (for short), did your husband agree to go to some kind of therapy or not? i re-read the whole thread, and i'm not sure if i read that or not...
I've been through something similar myself, Eve, and I can tell you that making convenient excuses for him is not going to help the problem. So you may feel that you were "neglecting" him. That, love his heart, he just couldn't control his impulses, and he was just so lonely. Yeah, well, there's a lot of other ways for him to confront those problems other than looking at pictures of some girl he knows and flirting with online babes. If you're truly willing to work on this, and truly willing to forgive him, then you've got to wipe away those cliche, haven't-we-heard-them-all-before excuses and truly look at his actions. The both of you do. The more you keep muddying the waters with those convenient one-liners, the less resolution the both of you are going to get. You are going to be left feeling bitter, and he is going to be left with a whole lot of rope to go chasing after cars with.
Just please… do not sacrifice your happiness because he is unwilling to control himself. I have given the same litany of excuses because I was afraid to move on and live my life without a guy, which culminated into a case of him flirting around with some girl he knew personally on Myspace and physical infidelity (turns out, him wanting to “find himself” was just him wanting to bang some girl at work). YOU are the arbiter of your own happiness. You can only control YOUR own actions, and YOU are the only one in control of them. If he is willing to learn this lesson as well, then more power to the both of you. I’m sure things will work out quite a lot better than in my case; however, if he’s not willing, then you have stop this cycle of you making all the excuses for him and none for yourself.
I really hope he stands up and becomes a responsible individual. <3 Best of luck to you both.
/ soapbox.
Last edited by Song of Surly; 05-20-2010 at 12:07 PM.
Having been the depressed one in a relationship, I KNOW it must be hard to live with. I am sure that contributed to ending that relationship I described above. In a sense I felt it was unfair that he was unwilling to acknowledge a real illness as part of the problem (we were both psychology grad students at the time--although we were not clinical psychology students, we both knew a lot about the physiological roots of depression). The simple fact is I was undiagnosed AND it's hard to deal with a depressed person. Try as I might to put the blame on him for things going downhill, it was definitely a joint problem. Although I do still blame him for the way things ended.
BUT...on the plus side, when he refused to go to see a counselor with me that day and I decided then and there to end it, I still went to see a counselor myself. I sat in the office, filling out form after form, and was FINALLY diagnosed with depression. I was prescribed Paxil and I've been on some kind of anti-depressant ever since. (I got off a couple of times but learned I pretty much need to be on something all the time...genetics and so on). That was the (immediate) bright side of that relationship ending...it was the impetus for me to get some much-needed help.
While it may seem especially cruel to dump someone already affected by depression, sometimes that is just the wake up call a depressed person needs to seek help.
Eve, I am glad to hear that you will be separated as a result of deployment. I think that will give you both a chance to think things through and get some breathing room. I think if you can hang in there until the deployment and give your husband a heads-up of what you will be thinking through while he is gone, you will probably come to a much better place than making any rash decisions right now. I know it will be rough though, so best of luck.
the way I see it the problem isn't so much the porn but the lies and the deceit. I know it's hard to see past all that right now and the fact that you love him. But yanno love isnt supposed to hurt that much. You need to be happy and if he isn't willing to give that to you then you need to get it.
Not how should feel about it. Not "it's natural" not "it's purely physical". Does the thought of your husband looking at pictures of naked make you feel upset, depgraded, jealous, insufficient? None of these are questions that you have to answer to me, or anyone on these boards. They are, however, questions you need to ask of yourself.
My husband and I have been together for almost 7 years and married for just short of four. Two years ago, I found some pornography tapes that my husband had hidden from me. I was crushed. Literally, crushed. I felt inadequate, hurt, and incredibly depressed. The fact that porn is extremely common, that not all women mind it, etc. is irrelevant. The only thing that mattered in our marriage was how I felt about it. When I confronted my husband, he agreed to stop vieing porn. Not necessarily because he felt it was wrong, but because it hurt me.
Your husband is choosing to continue to participate in activities that cause you pain and emotional anguish. He is also using emotional manipulation to convince you that he is reaching out for other things because of you. The fact that he blames efforts related to your weightloss bothers me even more. I wonder how much of his perceived "neglect" comes from a boost in self confidence that you've received as a result of your weightloss. As an insecure person, I imagine he is threatened by your increase in self confidence and esteem. There is no justification for him to reach outside your marriage- I'm sorry but in my opinion, someone who is reaching out to cheat on their spouse will do so whether the relationship is good or bad. If he's feeling neglected, he needs to speak up like an adult, not act out like a pet who chews your shoes or pees on the rug when they get mad. If I'm completely honest, the justifications you are giving for his behavior sound eerily similar to the justifications I hear from women in abusive relationships.
And- you need to stop reading these books on marriage. Really. It is not your duty as a wife to provide him with never ending sex (in multitudes of positions! with toys! with other people! however he wants it! with whoever he wants!) a spotless house, gourmet meals and freshly pressed laundry in order to be a good wife. What you need to do is be a team that can help eachother reach goals, discuss life problems openly and honestly, pick up a little slack from eachother when necessary, and always have the utmost respect for eachother.
Before you write me off as a liberal femi****- I follow a conservative and traditional marriage model. I kept "obey" in my marriage vows, I submit to my husband. But, I do so knowing that my husband is more concerned about my happiness than his own, and I'm more concerned about his happiness than my own. With each person looking out for the other, everyone's needs are taken care of. You are more concerned about your husband's happiness than your own- but does he do the same for you?
Good luck with counseling and I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. Hopefully you can resolve this issue (in one way or another) and get to a much better peace of mind. Sending positive thoughts your way!
I love hearing all sorts of different opinions. Even the 'harsh' ones. Sometimes that's what we need, is some tough love.
I do agree that when I asked him to stop looking at porn and he refused, that that should have been a red flag. But (here i go defending him again) he has extremely cut down on the amount of time he spends watching it. He's gone weeks without it. It's something I've come to terms with within myself. I don't let it bother me nearly as much anymore. But I'm certainly not going to learn to accept having other people join us in the bedroom. I draw the line with that.
I'm looking forward to his deployment because I'm going to utilize that time to continue to work on myself and being more independent. I will live and take care of myself without him around and see how I feel. I also know that he will be appreciating me a lot more while he is gone, he'll be missing me and hopefully realize i need treated better.
making convenient excuses for him is not going to help the problem. So you may feel that you were "neglecting" him. That, love his heart, he just couldn't control his impulses, and he was just so lonely. Yeah, well, there's a lot of other ways for him to confront those problems other than looking at pictures of some girl he knows and flirting with online babes. If you're truly willing to work on this, and truly willing to forgive him, then you've got to wipe away those cliche, haven't-we-heard-them-all-before excuses and truly look at his actions. The both of you do. The more you keep muddying the waters with those convenient one-liners, the less resolution the both of you are going to get. You are going to be left feeling bitter, and he is going to be left with a whole lot of rope to go chasing after cars with.
Just please… do not sacrifice your happiness because he is unwilling to control himself. I have given the same litany of excuses because I was afraid to move on and live my life without a guy, which culminated into a case of him flirting around with some girl he knew personally on Myspace and physical infidelity (turns out, him wanting to “find himself” was just him wanting to bang some girl at work). YOU are the arbiter of your own happiness. You can only control YOUR own actions, and YOU are the only one in control of them. If he is willing to learn this lesson as well, then more power to the both of you. I’m sure things will work out quite a lot better than in my case; however, if he’s not willing, then you have stop this cycle of you making all the excuses for him and none for yourself.
I really hope he stands up and becomes a responsible individual. <3 Best of luck to you both.
/ soapbox.
I thought these sounded like wise words. I personally don't necessarily look at porn as cheating. He did alot more than that, though. And while I agree that a relationship is dependent on the efforts of both people, he seemed very willing to grasp onto your wanting to accept a lot of the blame for "neglecting" him. From what you've written, I didn't get the sense that he came to you to try to solve that problem before he turned elsewhere.
I think it would be a good idea to closely listen to what he's telling you. On one level I think he is trying to be honest with you. From what you've written of what he's said, it sounds to me like he's seriously struggling with being in a committed relationship. It can be a time wasting and heartbreakingly sorrowful process to tell yourself that someone will change (I speak from experience). this is about maturity and integrity, in my mind, to a large extent. I get he has depression and coping issues, and huge stressors (going to Iraq or Pakistan). that's my feedback, I hope it helps.
s and prayers. and all my best to you in whatever decisions the two of you make.
I can tell all you women the reason guys do it is because it feels good! There is no guy out there under the age of 50 worried about prostate problems...most of us over 50 aren't either 
on losing over 100 lbs -- that is sooo awesome!
