Originally Posted by rochemist:
Men just want us naked, they are rarely as critical as we are they few that are, are not worth anything.

Miss Chris.. so nice to see you back! :)

I know what you are saying. It just is hard to really believe when you go to ALL the online dating sites and the first things men are saying is " no fat chicks, slender only, not into BBWs" etc.... It's enough to kepe me celibate until I croak! :p

I think there have been women on here who have said they have joined dating sites with varying amounts of success. I can't imagine all guys on dating sites are looking only for skinny girls.

Originally Posted by Ailidh:
So my question is, how do you even become aware that men are looking at you? That you're lookable at? project lookability?

I totally feel less than a woman in this area because I just don't know how to do attraction.

I've got loads of other stuff bubbling up - including the panic feelings of 'he's looking at me' leading to total panic and 'what's wrong with him?' amongst others but don't want to hijack the thread. Interesting one.

Ailidh, you and I have such similar thought processes going on in our messed up minds! ;)

I subscribe to a newsletter by Debbie Ford, who does a lot of self-discovery and growth writing. I got this in my email yesterday

Originally Posted by :
The Vow of Emotional Independence

This vow's proclamation says I, ____, will no longer be bound by the slavery of my past.

I will never again give my power away to some food, substance or disempowering craving.

I will stop allowing others to define who I am and I will stand for my highest expression.

I will stop trying to please others and instead please myself.

I will stop listening to the voice of my critical internal mother and father and I will listen to the voice of my most supportive and loving self.

I will break free from the strangulating grip of my self-defeating behaviors and choose powerfully each and every moment to make choices that leave me feeling great about myself and my life.

I take this vow NOW as a positive stand for my soul's highest expression and for every man, woman, and child on this planet today.

As I set myself free, I am freeing all others from the violence of my darkest thoughts and my negative projections.

And now, as I close my eyes, I ask all the powers that be to support me in living this vow each and every moment of each and every day.

And it shall be.

I think if we concentrate on being our very best selves, the best that we want to be, in the manner we want to be, and we stop worrying about everyone else's reactions and responses to us, we will be surrounded by people who love us for who we are, we will be attractive to those who will support who we are, and we will easily maintain ourselves in a confident state of being. I know for myself, I really cannot be looking to others to help me define who I am. I can see others and admire them for who they are.

If I see someone who has qualities I wish I could emulate, I will consider what it takes to be like that. We all know and understand that people in the public eye have a professional interest in looking and being a certain way. Actors/models spend thousands maintaining their appearance. I know I don't have that kind of money or time to devote myself to that. And even if I did, I don't think I would! If that is what is expected of me as a woman in order to attract a man in this modern world, then I make the choice to remain single.

If only, if only, people in the public eye would openly talk about what it takes to be a person of genuinely good character. Because I think that's about the least expensive thing one can do to be attractive.

Georgia

Originally Posted by Ailidh:
wow, windchime, congratulations on getting so close to where you stopped last time, that's mega!

thing is, attractiveness is not about the weight. I've been doing a lot of people watching recently and seen a lot of women much bigger than me who ooze attractiveness and femininity. I just don't know how to do it.

For me to feel attractive, it IS about weight. I just don't feel cute, attractive, sexy, anything like that, when I am heavy. I just don't. I see lots of other women who are, but I am not. Because part of becoming attractive is FEELING as if you ARE attractive (at least it is to me). I don't feel attractive when I have double chins, am puffing and out of breath, and have a big gut. For me, I need to have a slimmer figure to feel attractive.

And yes, Ailidh, I think it is like riding a bike only hopefully there isn't the danger of scraped knees, and you don't have to wear a helmet. ;) I saw a comment the other day where someone said, "Being with a new partner (in that way) is like trying to drive someone else's car" and I thought that was funny, yet true.

Originally Posted by LindaT:
Miss Chris.. so nice to see you back! :)

I know what you are saying. It just is hard to really believe when you go to ALL the online dating sites and the first things men are saying is " no fat chicks, slender only, not into BBWs" etc.... It's enough to kepe me celibate until I croak! :p

Yep, me too. And if it wasn't about weight, it seems like the men's "girlie mags" would be filled with middle-aged moms with a few extra pounds, and not the barely-18 girls with the big fake boobies. So I do think that it is somewhat about weight--although I see plenty of larger, curvy ladies who have happy relationships, so what do I know! LOL

I can so relate to everything being said in this thread.

I'm 46. I haven't been in a relationship in over 10 years.

The last time I lost an enormous amount of weight, I got an overwhelming amount of attention from men at the workplace, all of whom were married; I developed an eating disorder, first anorexia, then binging & overexercising to compensate; & yes, finally, I ended up getting involved with someone who was married & whom I worked with. (I know, I know. NEVER GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN. Either part of it, actually.) I was very inept at relationships. Immature, lagging so far behind my contemporaries that it was ridiculous. I felt safer with the men I'd seen every day for years. On reflection, I believe there was so much attention that I decided **I** was going to do the choosing, to get it over with already, and that picking one of them would make me safer, in a way, having been claimed. Also, that I was afraid of real intimacy, and someone who was married could be held at arm's length. And I didn't understand what my emotional needs were -- or really, that I had any.
A big, big mess.

This time around, I've lost all my weight at another male-dominated workplace. For several years, I have hung out with a group of four to five men. We sit in the cafeteria & have lunch together. It's a fun break from a tense job. They knew me at my highest weight. As I began losing weight, oh boy, did the atmosphere at the cafeteria table change. There's a certain tension now that wasn't there. Thing is, I don't want to date any of them. They're my buddies. I'd hate to mess up the friendship. I don't want to date guys that I work with. (If it goes bad, it's terribly uncomfortable to be around them.) Also, I know all of them quite well, and I know none of them are quite suited to me.

And also, as others have said here, I am full of indignation, deep down, at my sudden power. They've known me for years. I am the same girl I that I was. I talk about the same things (well, I do talk more about going to the gym, but not by much, only with the ones who also go to the gym). But now that I'm, er, sexually viable, there's been a subtle but distinct shift.

In a way, I think having nonsexual, nondating relationships with these guys is going to be a form of "training wheels" for me before I really get rolling.

Oh, I am so screwed up in this area. It's a relief to read of others fretting over the same issues, even if our histories are completely different.

I was reading up on how to go about meeting more people in general and came across the suggestion of volunteering time to a cause, thereby meeting people with shared pursuits and interests. For most of my adult life, I've walked into situations where there were "instant friendships". Now I can take an opportunity to develop relationships from the ground up.

But to be honest, I don't know how people develop friendships these days. Is it okay to step into a group, get to know a few and then invite everyone to potluck at my place? I'm accustomed to doing that within a closed community. Do people "in the real world" go over to others' homes for dinner anymore?

Saef, I'm looking forward to hearing how the "trainingwheel" sessions are going with the guys at work. I used to work in a similar situation with lots of men, back in the early 80s, before all the sexual harassment and sensitivity training. I'm curious about how conversations have changed since then.

Georgia

I work with mostly men, too, but in a conservative small town. I've not ever been hit on by a married man at my workplace, at least not that I've noticed. I have noticed that one of them is tending to give me casual touches a little bit more frequently lately, so maybe I'm being hit on and don't realize it. Like Saef, I'm a little annoyed that I'm finding I have more feminine power in general now that I'm becoming slimmer. Part of me finds it understandable, but part of me is irritated about it. It's like I wasn't good enough to be looked at before, even though I'm the same person? Huh? And yet at the same time, I get it because I DO think I'm becoming more attractive. I walk a lot in the evenings, and I am noticing a few more second glances from men who drive by. Flattering yet a little ......annoying? Alarming? Not sure.

Georgia, I don't know the answer to your friendship question. I work in IT so we are not really a social bunch to begin with. One guy recently said he was having a BBQ for a few people at work and their families and I should come up. I replied positively and asked him to email me the information--nothing. So I don't know if the BBQ happened, or if he changed his mind about asking me or what. I also suspect that many wives of the guys I work with don't really want me invited--some women don't feel safe with a divorced woman in the mix. Sad but true.

I've decided that I will start saying "yes" to opportunities to mingle that come my way. This means that I will be traveling an hour north in a couple weeks to listen to an old high school friend sing Christian music in a park concert. It also means I will be braving the traffic tomorrow night to meet a girlfriend in town so we can watch the fireworks. I don't expect to meet "someone special" there, but at least I'm getting out and being around other people and that's a start.

I was thinking about this a lot and I am not always so keen to putting others stories out there.

There are these 2 women I have known all of my life. One of them is very bubbly, absolutely loves kids, has a small circle of friends. The other one of them isn't as bubbly but definitely has a small circle of friends. One of them is a teacher, the other is in sales. Both went to college.

They are both 40. The bubbly teacher has never had a boyfriend. The other one had her first boyfriend when she was 34-35ish. Either of them may have gone on dates but really never advertised it if they did.

Now would you guess these women are obese?

Neither has ever been overweight, they may have been considered slightly underweight when they were younger but both are incredibly curvy. I think at their lowest adult weight they were around 95 lbs (they are short), at their highest, I think one of them got up into the 120s. I believe right now they are somewhere between 110-115. Oh and they are incredibly cute.

They are just incredibly shy and I don't think either of them figured out how to deal with men.

Originally Posted by geoblewis:
But to be honest, I don't know how people develop friendships these days. Is it okay to step into a group, get to know a few and then invite everyone to potluck at my place? I'm accustomed to doing that within a closed community. Do people "in the real world" go over to others' homes for dinner anymore?


Georgia

You got me. It was easier in school wasn't it? You were thrown together by fate and got to know those people because they were in your face all the time. It just seemed to "happen". I see people with kids doing this well.. their kids get together and they get to know each other through them.

I've tried the volunteer route and while I find it very rewarding and do continue to do it, everyone there seems to be so busy in their lives. They put their time in and then move on to the next thing. It's nutty. I do fine in work situations, but this personal stuff I am really bad at. Even if I did manage to find someone to tak to, what on earth would I say? The art of small talk has eluded me for my entire life....let's not even get into flirting. Good Heavens!! :blah::yikes:

Originally Posted by rochemist:
Men just want us naked, they are rarely as critical as we are they few that are, are not worth anything.

I laughed out loud at this. there are always going to be shallow people, shallow guys, and it's my experience younger people are more obsessive about package over content (I was more that way when I was young, about myself esp), but I do agree with the above.

saef, I'm wondering if the guys at your lunch table are responding in part to you yourself feeling more attractive and sexual. it's easy to say it's because men are more attracted to skinnier women. vibes and confidence are strong attractors.

Originally Posted by Windchime:
Like Saef, I'm a little annoyed that I'm finding I have more feminine power in general now that I'm becoming slimmer. Part of me finds it understandable, but part of me is irritated about it. It's like I wasn't good enough to be looked at before, even though I'm the same person? Huh? And yet at the same time, I get it because I DO think I'm becoming more attractive. I walk a lot in the evenings, and I am noticing a few more second glances from men who drive by. Flattering yet a little ......annoying? Alarming? Not sure.

I completely understand this. When I lost all my extra weight several years ago, I must say I looked good (166 pounds). And I was getting lots of attention and friends who never offered to set me up with anyone were coming out of the woodwork to do so. I thought I would have been happy about all that considering that one of the reasons I had lost the weight was to be more attractive. But I found I was angry that so many people clearly found me acceptable thin when they didn't before. I get that fat isn't pretty. But I was still bothered by the fact that I was only desirable as a thin woman. It just served to reinforce all the ugly messages I received from my parents that a man could never love a fat girl. Trust me, I see examples that contradict this notion every day, but that was not the example that played out in front of me in my home growing up.

I think a small part of me gaining the weight back (and there are many other ways I screwed up) was a way of saying I don't trust anyone who can't love me no matter what. And I don't want someone who would only want the thin me, because what if I gained it back and they left me or, worse (like my parents) stuck around and verbally abused me for being fat for the next 40 years?

That's part of why I'm in therapy this time around; so I have time to sort all of this out before I get to my goal again. I want to eliminate as many excuses to backslide as I can...

Thank you for starting this thread. I haven't had a relationship in the 19 years since I gained 100lbs and one of my primary motivators frankly is to feel good enough/look good enough to dive into internet dating on my 50th birthday near the end of this year. But at the same time, totally wigged out by the entire idea.