No, I don't believe in the existance of a God in any form. I am an atheist, I suppose if I have to qualify my beliefs then I am a Darwinist. The work of Charles Darwin explains the existance of all life and explains the meaning of life. This is my belief and is in no way meant to critisize, upset or antagonise anyone.

I was blessed to be raised by a family of scientists.That is where my gotta see it to believe it comes from .Those of you who understand scientific theories will get this.interesting to me is that 93% of scientists are either agnostic or atheist.also studies show that the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to not believe.Justwanttobehealthy-I am happy for your family member.Like i said in an earlier post-a small number beat the odds.That is statistics.When someone receives a cancer diagnosis with a 10% survival rate...someone has to make up the 10%.Can even our brightest physicians explain this?Not at this time.Research is being conducted every day to do so and there are many scientific theories as to why some people live longer than others with certain diagnosis...and trust me, none of the theories involve any god.I have no problem with anyone who believes!!!If you find peace in you faith and it gives you something to shoot for while on this earth...GO FOR IT!I personally dont need some religion to tell me....do not kill, do not steal, honor thy mother and father.... And I certainly dont need anyone to carve these in stone to remind me. I consider these things COMMON SENSE!
Primm-Thanks for understanding!its hard to explain to others what we experience every day.Most would be shocked to find out that the physician leaning over them with a scalpel in hand..........believes as we do.There are no prayers said when things are going wrong.

harrismm--i am 100% in agreement with you.

that being said, show me some physical, scientific proof of a mystical being that lives in the sky and controls our lives and i'll acknowledge its existence.

I might be in the middle here, not a Christian or a Scientist, but I think we put what we want into certain words and terms. For example, I know a few nurses and they have witnessed events that they considered miracles or miraculous. I've also known doctors who feel the same, but each person has their own view of what a miracle is. Take the nurse I know who is very religious, well she views it as divine intervention, while another person I know who is not religious views it as someone beating the odds.

I used to know this guy, he loved his motorcycle, probably still does. One day, clear wonderful cruising day, he survived a wreck that most people would not have. This wreck involved him getting run over by a truck and being drug by the truck for quite a distance. Of course he was very injured, I believe he ended up loosing his leg, and he had experienced medical professionals working on him. However, before the medical professionals intervened it was him and the truck. The motorcycle just happened to be in the right position to protect his body enough while the truck ran over him and he just happened to get lodged in the truck in a certain way. I don't think he ever looked at it as divine intervention, but he did view it as miraculous that he survived and then having incredible medical professionals take care of him...they made sure he had a good chance. I don't, from speaking with his doctors and nurses, feel that they viewed him as a statistic. They viewed his situation as "beating the odds" and I believe his nurse at the time said the world "miracle," but to her it was.

To me, if you want to live your life with studies and statistics and beakers and whatever, then great. If that is what makes you feel fulfilled, wonderful. If you are a person who wants to live your life believing in God or Gods/Goddesses, or nature, or whatever, great. I guess for someone like me, if you're not using your faith, beliefs, or scientific nature to hurt other people or creatures, then more power to you. :hug:

I had to comment on this:

When you are born, speaking scientifically, you do not know these lessons. Someone, a human being, taught them to you. Now this someone could have been a parent/s, a school, books, culture...Saturday Morning Cartoons lol..my point is that if someone chooses a Church or Religion in order to learn these lessons, then that is okay. Common sense dictates that you were told about these morals by another individual or individuals. Even if you are one that believes that God taught you these morals, you still had a person, human being, teaching you these things. My point is that you too were taught by people otherwise you would not have known about these morals. You were most likely, statistically and scientifically speaking, taught by stories that were told to you by people. That could be a parent telling you a story or lesson from their childhood. That really isn't that much different than hearing the Noah story or etc. Not all religious people believe that the Noah story actually happened. There are people who just view that as a story, a myth, a legend...

Sure, a religious person probably will view the Noah story differently than you do, but still you say it is common sense. Well, it is NOW that you know these things, but at one point you depended on people to teach you their ways. If you were growing up in a religious family, and I did, you would have been taught their way. Now hopefully you would then be able to choose your way, like I did, when you felt it was time without pressure... However, you still were taught the same things, but you were just taught differently. I realize that the Noah story is probably not the best example, but I'm speaking in general terms. What someone takes from those stories...etc.

;)

Love hearing your thoughts ladies -- but please don't think for a minute that I cannot grasp what you are saying; and you have some very valid points. I worked in 4 nursing homes in my life (as a nurse's aide et al), and less than a handful of our dear clients got better and walked out of there (physically, I mean), so death was an ever-present occurrence for us, BUT I did witness some strange spiritual things while working there ...

I too have common sense, and appreciate intellectual thought, and the wisdom of science (even with its limitations), but I can still have faith on top of all that too (I guess I get the best of both worlds) -- and I just don't think that they have to be mutally exclusive of each other, that's all.

And, I DO respect your right to believe, or not to believe what you want. Some of us are just sharing 'why' we do believe in GOD/religion despite all the imperfections and limitations and questions that we experience in this life.

I find it interesting that some of you believe in your 'Science' to the point that I might call that a kind of religion. You propose that science proves there is no GOD, yet admit that science too is limited; but some day, may explain the unexplainable ... Maybe belief in our intellect and science and reason, can become a kind of god and religion too?

I see so much awesome beauty in this world and the night skies, that I find it hard to believe that it all happened by accident alone: that seems like limited thought to me. Maybe it's all just a matter of personal experience and 'perspective' like you say ... Science tells us that everything is very orderly, yet not always perfect: that would be heaven then, not earth.

I'm learning a lot from this discussion, so thanks ... :D


PAINTED LADY: I was still giggling this morning thinking about your bumper sticker, but decided I want one with Charlie the Tuna reclining on an 'extinct' Brontosaurus' skeleton, while sipping on a Margarita in the hot, Florida sun ... :lol:

Woo, what a touchy subject. Caveat: I am posting without reading all the responses first...but I promise to go back and read them all, because I'm interested in what everyone has to say about it. Just my time's a bit limited right now.

I was raised as a Bible-believing evangelical Christian, one parent United Methodist, other parent Southern Baptist. Every Sunday was Sunday School, Church, then Sunday-night services and Wednesday-night services. Basically if the church doors were open we were there (and in fact had a key so we could practice on the piano and organ whenever we wanted). Soon as I left home I rebelled and quit attending church except for Christmas and Easter, then later not even that.

But I have always considered myself a very spiritual person, even though I do not care for organized religion. It certainly has its place socially but not spiritually, for me.

I am still technically a member of the United Methodist church but my personal beliefs are quite far removed from the church. If I ever leave the church I'll probably become Buddhist, although I don't completely agree with the Buddha's path to enlightenment.

In a teeny-tiny nutshell: God is not a "being" it's a state of everything. God chose to create "the Universe" and all things in it in order to enjoy "eternity." Each of us humans/plants/animals/etc. make an agreement to buy into the illusion when we choose to incarnate into this plane for the experience of "life." If we believe in karma and punishment, or heaven and ****, or whatever, then we'll experience that. The trick is to see through the illusion and rise above it.

I don't believe we're here to "learn" stuff, but just to be and to enjoy the be-ing. If you think you're here to learn stuff, you do.

But if we choose to see through the illusion and understand that we are all the exact same thing, a thought in the "mind" of God, "God " choosing to spend "eternity" being and doing everything it can, just for the fun of it, where you and I and everyone else is exactly the same as a rock, a tree, a cloud, a thought, a breeze, everything, every noun, verb, action, molecule, everything...then we have reached enlightenment without have to remove the source of craving as did The Buddha.

I think The Buddha's path to enlightenment was the right path for him...and for any of his followers that have reached enlightenment. But it's not the right path for me.

I don't pretend to be enlightened of course, but I do feel like I've made significant progress along the path. Really, understanding that God is not a being was huge, and much of the rest follows that.

As always, nothing here was written to offend (or to be debated) and Your Mileage May Vary. :)

I was raised Catholic, spent some time at Camp Awana learning Bible quotes, went to a Lutheran college, and landed in the Bible belt. After a lifetime of thinking on it, I decided I am an atheist.

Jacquie-I agree with you.We as children live what we learn.And I respect whatever people choose.
I do think the 10 commandments are common sense, to me anyway.But I also realize that many people need more direction than I.And some people need to be told what to believe and how to live their life, hence an organized religion.I respect that.
What I have a problem with is the "cafeteria christians".They will tell you that the bible is fiction, that of course they dont believe the story of Jonah.....talking snake..........Noahs ark........(insert any hard to believe bible story) but then use the bible to preach against gay marraige stating the bible says marraige is to be between a man and a woman.WHAT???Is it fiction or non- fiction???...........That is the question?And if its fiction, why not just worship fairy tales?I seriously believe that if Jack and the Beanstalk was a bible story........some would believe it to be true.

I have a problem with that as well. I don't really think that something like that falls on Christians though as I have met plenty of people of that religion who had no issues with people who were homosexuals. I've seen congregations stand up for what they believed was good meaning I've seen Christians defending their homosexual church members. Then again you are always going to have people who stand or hide behind things to hurt others, so I've also seen the other side where people were discriminating.

I know what you're saying though when you say "cafeteria Christian." But then again you could say the same thing about people of the intellect side. I remember being insulted and frankly completely disrespected by a few people who labeled themselves as atheists/intellectuals. I was referred to as uneducated, a hick, a redneck, delusional...all because they didn't like my beliefs. I didn't mind their thoughts and opinions, but I suppose they thought differently of mine. I know a Jewish family who hates Catholics. I don't know why they hate them, there is no real reason...but they do. My point is that this kind of behavior comes in all forms...in a way one could say it just is a part of human nature. Find a reason for the hate and hide behind it. *shrugs*

I might be completely wrong, so this are just my thoughts and opinions. One of the things that I think...is that when we are children we live in this world of make believe and when I was a kid hearing the stories of the Bible, I believed them to a point. I asked pretty snarky questions lol...that is just me and my curious nature. As you grow older you start viewing the world differently...example, how many of us believe in Santa Claus now versus when we were kids. (though on a side note, I never really believed in the easter bunny as a giant bunny tossing eggs at me was scary haha)

My point is that...I don't think a lot of adult Christians do believe in the Bible in that way of "fiction" or "non-fiction." I think there are certain aspects of the Bible and of the religion they do believe in 100%. Angels, heaven, ****, God, Jesus, etc... but in the end I really believe that for the most part Christians are pretty relaxed at least from my experiences. I guess I'm saying that humans pick and choose what they are going to put their beliefs or experiences in. On the one hand you can have people out there who can quote scripture to you, but on the other hand you have a lot who cannot. They live as a Christian, doing good, living a good life, but they don't put much stock into the Bible unless it is on Sunday or a Bible study. It is the same thing as you yourself. You choose your path and you believe in what you do believe in, but you pick and choose too. You live as a good person, doing good, helping people, but I don't think you agree or believe in every single scientific fact, study, or statistic out there. You might feel there are a significant differences between your way and the Christian way, but as an observer I see both sides on the same level almost. But maybe that is just me...

I've only met a few that told me I was going to burn in ****...*nods* All though I did have one person tell me I was going to be burned to death like a Witch would be...when I asked for the time of my burning and if I should bring matches or a lighter...they didn't seem amused. hehe. I've been insulted by Christians, non-Christians, atheists, intellectuals, Catholics, Jews...in the end they were just people being mean.

*added though* Sorry for this being even longer...but I do enjoy reading your thoughts, all of you. It is nice to have this sort of discussion in this way! :D I think so anyhow...

I absolutely believe there is a God. I know it like I know my next breath. I just know like I know my own heart, it feels so right.

I am a Christian and accepting the gift of the atonement, commandments, and doctrine are not always easy for me because after spending most of my adult like as an agnostic and then as a spiritualist it seems rigid. But then I remember its all a journey and there are so many paths. God is bigger than my church, my understanding, and my want, so I trust that I am doing the best I can with the information at hand. I have faith that He will help me find my way and His will for me.

I absolutely believe in God and his son Jesus Christ. That belief though has very little to do with church or organized religion. Church is however a place to find fellowship and to help fulfill one another's needs.

The bible was taken directly from the original Hebrew and Greek. Where people get the idea that it is just a miss matched compilation of writings is beyond me. Maybe they have someone ignorant teaching them.

I also know that God is who HE says he is in the bible, not what people try to make up to suit their own needs.

I thank God for his atonement and forgiveness of my sins.

I am a scientist too. The funniest thing I ever heard was when I asked a biochemist why he used these chemicals for extracting RNA. He didn't know except in the broadest sense that there was lysing of the cell, he just knew they worked. Science has its own faith, because not every scientist understands all of it, so we trust what we observe and others research. I know E=mc2, but have I observed a solar eclipse to calculate relativity? Nope, I take it on faith that the research was done properly and that tomorrow I may have to change my paradigm with the next theory and that once it is tried and proven true to the 99.997% mark have faith in it.

As a scientist though I DON'T BELIEVE IN COMMON SENSE! Statically it is highly improbably that what we all consider common to be the same or have the same basis for understanding. Besides if there was common sense why would there be News or fat people or smokers? Because I think we would just know the rights and wrongs. There is only perception as the reality that we get, through an individual filter.

I was raised catholic. I asked WAY too many questions, CCD did not go very well. That being said, I'm agnostic learning towards atheist.

The scientific method gains knowledge by testing hypotheses to develop theories through elucidation of facts or evaluation by experiments and thus only answers cosmological questions about the physical universe. It develops theories of the world which best fit physically observed evidence. All scientific knowledge is subject to later refinement in the face of additional evidence. Scientific theories that have an overwhelming preponderance of favorable evidence are often treated as facts (such as the theories of gravity or evolution).Its what I believe.I dont know what else to say.

But I will add one last post on this forum.I appreciate all of your interesting opinions on this subject.Sometimes we have to agree to disagree and I appreciate that.This topic was handled very respectfully in my opinion and I appreciate that.Good luck to all of you!Take care.