I just want to "ditto" this entire thread! All these things make me crazy, and I'm a high school teacher so you can imagine the pain I go through with my students! It's alarming, really, how little they know of grammar. I blame the trend in education toward only learning grammar through reading. I find that my high school students have had very little exposure to grammar for grammar's sake, if that makes sense. When I was in school, we did grammar for half the year and literature for the other half. Now it's all about reading. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for that! But we're losing sight of the grammar side in education now. I try to push it in my classes but most other English teachers at my school (and everywhere, it seems) do not. Students actually argue with me that I'm wrong about the things I teach them, because they're so used to hearing it the wrong way. They refuse, for example, to believe that it's correct to say "the bell rang" instead of "the bell rung." An entire class of sophomores refused to accept this one day! The fact that I have an English degree and I'm their teacher doesn't seem to affect their acceptance of what I say! They also argue with me about elliptical clauses, as in "Sam is taller than I." Even when I explain about the missing remainder of the clause (Sam is taller than I am) and how you wouldn't say "Sam is taller than me am," they refuse to accept it. It's hard to teach when the students are so convinced they're right about everything already. Or I suppose they're just convinced that it doesn't matter anyway.
I just want to "ditto" this entire thread! All these things make me crazy, and I'm a high school teacher so you can imagine the pain I go through with my students! It's alarming, really, how little they know of grammar. I blame the trend in education toward only learning grammar through reading. I find that my high school students have had very little exposure to grammar for grammar's sake, if that makes sense. When I was in school, we did grammar for half the year and literature for the other half. Now it's all about reading. Don't get me wrong -- I'm all for that! But we're losing sight of the grammar side in education now. I try to push it in my classes but most other English teachers at my school (and everywhere, it seems) do not. Students actually argue with me that I'm wrong about the things I teach them, because they're so used to hearing it the wrong way. They refuse, for example, to believe that it's correct to say "the bell rang" instead of "the bell rung." An entire class of sophomores refused to accept this one day! The fact that I have an English degree and I'm their teacher doesn't seem to affect their acceptance of what I say! They also argue with me about elliptical clauses, as in "Sam is taller than I." Even when I explain about the missing remainder of the clause (Sam is taller than I am) and how you wouldn't say "Sam is taller than me am," they refuse to accept it. It's hard to teach when the students are so convinced they're right about everything already. Or I suppose they're just convinced that it doesn't matter anyway.
Society has proven that it doesn't matter.
We have parents, teachers and peers all saying that kids who speak correctly sound "snobby".
There is a school down here that is basically all one race - a friend's son went there for exactly one semester and was made fun of by the teachers for the way he spoke. They said he sounded too...um...white (forgive my lack of political correctness, I couldn't think of another way to put it). His peers made fun of him for having drive in his life and taking responsibility for himself and his actions.
Society cannot survive when we allow everyone to take the easiest, shortest way possible and not assume any responsibility for anything in their life.
Unfortunately, I think there needs to be drastic changes made to ensure that this country doesn't implode. Whether or not those changes are even possible is debatable. I just hate looking at society and seeing the base slowly crumbling.
Like I said in another post, I think some of it is due to the "dumbing down" and "no child left behind". When my kids were in school, I checked their homework every night. In fact, when my older daughter started college, she plopped her homework down on the dining room table for me to check. She thought I no longer cared when I told her that her homework was her responsibility now that she was out of high school.
Zef, I totally understand the "too white" problem that kid had. It is all over the place out here. Many of the hispanic kids are ridiculed for trying to achieve. It is really a sad commentary. You know some of the parents of those kids are aware of the way their kids are treating others.
I have to add, the parents are a large factor in this as well. How is a child supposed to believe what their teacher tells them if they here their parents saying things like "You and him are going over to Timmy's house"? If the message isn't enforced at home, there's no way it's going to penetrate young minds.
We had a discussion on another board one time about the difference between t-shirt language (casual) and tuxedo language (formal). I will admit that I talk and write to friends and family and in casual settings, in ways that I most certainly would never write at work, in copy, in emails to my clients, or at school.
In t-shirt situations, I often begin sentences with "and" or "but". I use ellipses to indicate my speech patterns ... where I would pause or breathe. I use smileys. I write in fragments sometimes. I use things like 'cause and say "uh-huh" or "yup". I even, when I'm talking to my East Texas family sometimes (*gasp*) say "ain't" and use double negatives.
But I know the difference and I know when that kind of use is appropriate and when it's not. Just like I swear (quite a bit, actually) but I'd never swear in front of a kid or a client.
It's all about context and being appropriate. There's nothing wrong with wearing a tshirt. But you don't wear one to a job interview.
Add my voice to the chorus! A few more that make my ears (and eyes) bleed:
1) It's not "axe", it's "ask."
2) There is no such word as "expecially" and no x in "especially."
3) It's not "one in the same" but "one and the same."
4) Unless you're doing something intravenously, it's not "in vein", it's "in vain."
5) Women wear heels, not "heals."
But I also get annoyed when people use a phrase that they've obviously HEARD somewhere but don't really know or understand.
I have a friend who refers to this as the "Girl Next Store" syndrome (because we both were involved in a discussion where someone was talking about the "girl next store" and we finally had to ask ... do you mean the "girl next door"?)
I'm 5 months from graduating with a degree in Linguistics and English, along with a certificate to teach English as a second language. Believe it or not, there are more non-native English speakers than native English speakers! It's a very dynamic and rapidly changing language. Pronounciation varies from region to region, and even between cities. Most overseas schools prefer to hire teachers with British accents because they perceive an American accent as sounding "lazy" and incorrect. Shocking, eh? Common speech among all of us here would probably have been perceived that way 50 years ago as well.
It doesn't make it WRONG, it just means the language is evolving.
Did you know, that in the 1200-1300's (Middle English), there was no such thing as standard spelling in English? It is very difficult to read some of my texts because of this. Is this incorrect? Here/heste/etc... all meant the same thing, it just depended on the author.
Society imploding? Come on, seriously? It used to be incorrect to publish texts in English because it was a commoner's language. Only proper society published in Latin or French (in England).
Last edited by sacha; 12-23-2008 at 11:43 AM.
Reason: ...
It doesn't make it WRONG, it just means the language is evolving.
There's evolution, then there's laziness/ignorance.
I'm an historian by education, and sort of a grammar/usage freak by .. I dunno ... avocation? I totally get and agree with the evolution of language. Things change. Standards change. Technology changes. Society changes. And all of those changes have ripple effects on our use of language and how the language develops.
I have no problem with that.
What I have a problem with is people who don't bother to learn the basics or who are willfully ignorant (I have a huge problem with willful ignorance) of what is correct and then use "dude - don't be so anal" as an excuse to not even bother to learn.
I have a friend who refers to this as the "Girl Next Store" syndrome (because we both were involved in a discussion where someone was talking about the "girl next store" and we finally had to ask ... do you mean the "girl next door"?)
I use smileys. I write in fragments sometimes. I use things like 'cause and say "uh-huh" or "yup". I even, when I'm talking to my East Texas family sometimes (*gasp*) say "ain't" and use double negatives. 
