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the problem is not the child but the setting that they are in (sociologist speaking) I have ADHD have since I was a kid.... I find that the medications do help me focus in an environment where it is important that I sit still..... but at the same time I am way better at multi-tasking and having fifteen different things on my plate (not dinner plate) than most.... its a different way of processing and if our society wasn't so **** bent on sitting still, acting appropriately (the ole protestant ethic kinda stuff.... ok I can't help myself I am a sociologist) then it wouldn't matter if a kid bounced in his chair or wanted to do the end first or whatever other silly things we ADHD folks do..... as far as medications Ritalin is old school, there are new and far better medications out there..... I use medication when I am sitting in class or in a situation where I will annoy others and have to focus ie. meetings..... but the medications that exist now are very different than the old world ritalins and dexadrines The thing is that is adhd overdiagnosed yeah I do think so.... I saw it in my college students.... are some doctors diagnosing ADHD for parents who really just need to discipline their children? yeah sure probably ..... BUT sit down and talk to any adult with ADHD and we all do the same stupid stuff..... when I have a student with ADHD come into my office I know exactly what he is going to tell me he/she does before they open their mouths. I know its going to take them an extra fifteen minutes when they get an exam to just calm down and work their way through it.... I can watch them tap and spin and moan and do all of the same things that I tend to do..... s |
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I have actually been diagnosed with OCD, but I knew it before the diagnosis ever happened. However, I choose NOT to medicate for it. My SIL, on the other hand, is a hypochondriac, and is on every medication known to man-INCLUDING antidepressants for "depression". This woman is about as depressed as a Jack Russel terrier. :rofl: I completely disagree with a general practitioner passing out behavioral drugs. How can someone you go and visit once in a blue moon truly know if you have ADD, ADHD, OCD, depression, or whatever? They only know what you tell them...it is different in a therapy situation, where the professional is seeing, observing, and talking with the patient on a regular basis-and is actually much more familiar with the signs and treatments. I do realize that some kids indeed do need medication-but just like antidepressants, ADD and ADHD medications are WAY overprescribed. 5 kids taking them in a classroom of 20-25 is WAY too many. WAY too many. Some kids truly have this disorder, but not this many. It isn't just with ADD or ADHD, or even antidepressants-but with ALL medications anymore. People want to treat the symptoms, but often not looking into solving the actual problem. MY FIL takes blood pressure meds...when he never even tried (and wasn't even influenced by his doctor) to change his diet and exercise habits, to see if it could be corrected that way, first. My MIL has a bad back, and is on numerous meds. Instead of doing the core strengthening exercises, and losing her excess weight to correct the issue (the doctor told her it WOULD help) she takes the pills. We are, as a society, medicating for EVERYTHING. The scary thing, is that half of these have side effects that are worse than the reason that we are taking it in the first place. :lol: Part of the problem, is the commercials all over the place. When I was a kid, there were never prescription drug commercials! Now, people see them all day, and get convinced that they have disorders and need these things. Part of it is self diagnosis, and there are doctors that hand out the drugs just because the patient asks for them...not because the doctor observes a problem and suggests it. |
Just wanted to point out, as a biologist, that ADHD cannot be "evolution" of the brain to new technology. Evolution takes a lot longer than 30 years, 50 years, or 100 years. So whoever was advancing that "theory" ought to get out their textbooks and review what they are talking about.
Jay |
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I was diagnoised with minimal brain dysfunction in 1969. they had just changed the name of the disorder from minimal brain DAMAGE the year before. Ya know what they call it now? ADHD! ADHD is a neurobiochemical imbalance in a person's brain. SADLY I can't take medication for it as i have too many side effects. I eat no sugar and no processed foods or red dyes. I get daily exercise and yet I can't put two thoughts together in a row. i guess i'm sensitive often too. |
I wasn't going to post in this thread but seeing as I have a 15 yr. old special needs child who has tried the meds route, I changed my mind. My son was dx'd w/atypical autism when he was 6 1/2. We'd been to countless docs who said, no he's fine, despite our gut intuition that something was amiss with him. The 7th doc he saw, a developmental ped., finally dx'd him. My son's behavior at that time was out of control so we decided to try the med route. While he wasn't officially dx'd w/adhd those were the drugs the doc suggested. We tried Ritalin for a bit -- it was horrible. My son went from a child who needed to be watched constantly to a kid who I could walk away from and not worry that he would do himself or anyone/thing around him any harm. Sound good? It wasn't. He was extremely hyperfocused. He once spent the better part of a Sat. looking all over for a piece of some toy that he didn't even play with. He stopped eating, stopped sleeping, lost weight, cried for no reason whatsoever (it broke my heart because he was just sad) and was the most unanimated blob I'd ever seen. We stopped that med. He was on Risperdal for a few years. He was NOT well monitored on it and we, having ZERO experience with any of this, assumed the doc was doing what docs were suppose to do. My son's behavior improved for a short while but once he acclimated to the dosage all the doc wanted to do was increase it. We tweaked it here and there but after awhile, we stopped that too because it did not affect his behavior enough for us to keep him on it. Actually, his behavior revereted to what it had always been.
What we did do that helped was change his diet to a gluten-free one. THAT helped with his behavior more than anything else. From age 7 to 11 he was gluten free. We experimented w/slowly adding gluten back in to see if it made any difference behavior-wise and found that he could tolerate gluten and he is now able to eat it. This is not so for many, many people but it is for him. As for primary care docs prescribing these drugs vs. psychiatrists -- I think the doc who knows the child best should be the one prescribing any meds. We got wraparound services for my son when he was in 5/6 grade. I called for these services when he was four years old and was told that there wasn't anyone available and that there was a two yr. wait list. When we finally got the serivces it was a day late and a dollar short, but that's another thread. Anyway as part of the wraparound services he had to see a psycologist - who only met w/him twice. We wanted weekly sessions but they said no. ?? Since they can't presribe drugs we asked, repeatedly, for a psych. referral because we thought that maybe meds would help with his behavior. Finally got one, but he didn't want to see my son on any kind of continuous basis. He NEVER read his file prior to our arriving for our appt. (side note -- it really, really pisses me off when a file is sent to a doc WAY prior to our appt and the doc never even opens it until our butts are in the chairs. Then they half scan the file and half listen to us-- and neither gets the FULL attention it deserves), met w/us for only 1/2 hr., the first thing he said to us when we walked in the door was 'oh, I see kids like your son all the time', (NOTHING offends me more than this) and we walked out of his office one half hour later w/an rx for Concerta. He gave us this despite our repeated concerns to him about how it will affect him, how Ritalin affected him, how we really wanted him in some kind of therapy. All our words fell on deaf ears. We tried the Concerta one day and knew it was NOT the route we wanted or needed to take. We never went back to that doc -- and he never, ever called to see how we made out. So even though it was his field of expertise, he FAILED. Our experiences with meds pertain to OUR son. How he did on them does not mean that's how another will do on them. Same goes for the gluten free diet. There is no 'one size fits all' when it comes to meds, regardless of what that med is for. Some children absolutely need these meds; some don't but are prescribed them anyways, some do best w/restricted diets. We tried many different things w/my son and the gluten free worked best for him at the time. It may do diddly squat for others. I do not believe there is any one correct answer to the meds question; every single case is individual and must be looked at and evaluated as such. Having said that, do we over medicate in this country? Egads, do we ever. The medical industry in this country is only interested in treating the symptoms; they do not care what the cause is. While some may disagree, this has been my own personal experience. If you do not walk into the office and have an ailment that they can throw a pill at, they are simply not interested. NO ONE wants to dig deeper and figure out the WHY. Wham bam, thank you ma'm. To the original OP -- I don't believe your original intention was to offend or start a debate over this but it did because your comments came across as rather off-handed and flippant. As someone who has a special needs child I can only say . . . do not judge anyone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. It's very easy to be dismissive when you're on the other side of the fence. To luckymommy -- do you have a book called 'Special Diets for Special Kids'? It has lots of info and tons of recipes. Also, Betty Hagman is an expert w/gf and df recipes. Also, mercury toxicity causes intestinal yeast infections. May I ask what the docs are doing for his mercury? My brother (he's 50) discovered 2 yrs ago that he has heavy metal toxicity (mercury) and has been having a horrible time. (he also has an intestinal yeast infection due to the mercury overload.) Just finding a doc who didn't think he was crazy took nearly a year. Finally found a doc, saw him for 1 1/2 yrs only to become beyond frustrated at the lack of ineptness that the doc showed in following his progress/lack thereof. Switched docs recently; same story. He has a second appt today w/a doc who told him last week 'I don't know what the cause is of all these symptoms but I am going to find out. That's my job.' WOW, FINALLY!!! To all, can you see why I am so wary of docs? Between my son and my brother, both of whom have fallen through the cracks nearly every step of the way, I find that most docs just don't care. P.S. Sorry this was so long and a bit rambly. Feels nice to vent though. :) |
ladybugnessa-
I don't think that you, or some of the others being diagnose with ADHD is the same thing as some of the children who are being given these drugs for being "hyper". This, and it is sad to say, IS happening often...and as it has been said in this thread, is sometimes suggested by the teachers and schools, to help them with hyper, unruly children at times. I think that there ARE indeed genuine cases of ADD, ADHD, autism, depression, sleep problems, and everything else under the sun-but the fact remains that society is on more medications now than ever before. I simply don't believe that everyone has THIS much wrong with them. My SIL and MIL have a pharmacy in their purses...and nothing is really wrong with either of them, other than they go to the doctor and complain constantly. Doctors give drugs out like candy anymore...and they shouldn't, especially with antidepressant and ADD/ADHD drugs. My MIL complains about citrus fruits hurting her stomach, and how sensitive her stomach is, and how she can't eat the citrus because of the all of the acid. The fact is, is that if she looked at the side effects of the 15 medications that she takes on a daily basis, stomach irritation is a side effect of at least half of them. Yet, she wants to blame the fruit for her stomach pain. ;) I don't think that medication is an all or nothing thing. I am not against it. I think that it IS there for medical neccessity, and sometimes it IS needed. However, I don't believe that 5 out of 20 kids in a class should be on it, and I don't believe that someone should be able to go into a doctor's office and come out with Prozac or Paxil without anyone really looking into the problem. The medication IS there because sometimes it is needed...but way too many people are "needing" it. |
I don't really think the original poster was being insensitive, but I do understand that there really is a need for medication sometimes. However, as another poster said, the percentage of kids with ADHD is something like 3-5%. I'm sure the percentage of kids on medication is probably higher, but I don't really know. I suppose it seems that way to me because as a high school teacher I get lots of IEPs for my students that indicate they have ADHD and need special accommodations. I have to tell you, quite a few of the accommodations are absolute nonsense. A small percentage of kids really seem to need them, and the rest just have parents who don't seem to want their kids to have to actually DO anything on their own. Sorry if that sounds insensitive, but it's true. Many parents seem to think laziness is a disorder, and they just find someone who will call it ADHD so their kid can get special treatment that isn't needed at all.
There really is something to the advice to get outside, though. Kids just don't do that as often these days, it seems, and it's a shame. |
aphil,
I totally agree about the medication problem. Sadly I too have a speical needs child with a form of Autisim he has PDD-NOS but he's 24 now. I live and breathe this stuff. My one ADHD son in school (age 22) does not like to take his antidepressants or his stimulant meds... they do help him but he gets so much negativity about it from friends and such that he'd rather suffer... as for too many meds two of my best girlfriends are morbidly obese and both are diabetic. when I even SUGGEST that eating better and getting some exercise might help, i'm told point blank "that's what pills are for" so yes the "drugs can fix anything" mentality does abound. |
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Where do these stats come from? Are they new numbers or old numbers? Who did the study? What criteria was included in the study? Most importantly, who backed the study? If the numbers are old, could the numbers be higher now? Who is dx'g these kids? If many of these kids do not have adhd why are they being dx'd as such? Are the docs, the parents or both at fault? Not asking you specifically, LM, just wondering out loud. Statistics are tricky things and thrown around rather freely. As a teacher who also must deal w/IEPs are you free to interject that you don't think that a particular child needs an IEP? I know they have a dx from a doc but was just wondering if you are allowed to voice your opinion. Personally, I'm always grateful when my son's teachers do voice their opinion. I may not always agree with them but I'm always glad to hear what they have to say as it often give us food for thought. |
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Hat Trick- I think that many doctors pass out drugs when they have no business doing so. It is much easier to give a diabetic drugs, than it is to have them lose weight, eat better, exercise, etc. I know of MANY people who have gotten antidepressants from their doctor when suffering from a divorce, a death, or some other similar circumstance. Anti-depressants were NOT meant to be given under these circumstances. They were meant for the people who actually have the chemical imbalance that causes anxiety/depression/bipolar disorder/obsessive compulsive disorder and other chemical imbalances. They were not meant for a normal person to take, during a time when they are SUPPOSED to be upset. Just because a doctor gives it, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do. Some children are diagnose with ADD or ADHD after much, much study...but others are taken into a physician for the first time, and given drugs. It isn't the same thing. Just because you get it from a doctor, doesn't mean that it is okay, or right, or that the diagnosis was even correct. There are good mechanics and bad ones, good hair stylists and bad ones, and the same goes for doctors. We have a doctor in our area that EVERYONE knows is the doctor to go to if you want antidepressants or "legal speed" to lose weight. He'll give drugs to anyone...and he has a well known reputation for it. As far as my experience goes with school, and kids having trouble-part of it is the change in workload in this generation. When I was in 4th grade, we had recess, we often did crafts and interactive activities, and so on during the day. My daughter is in 4th grade, and I kid you not-some of her spelling words are cytoplasm, invertebrate, and words like that. She has homework in at least 2 subjects EVERY NIGHT. When I was in 4th grade, I had homework only when there was a special thing going on, like the science fair. I didn't have regular homework on a nightly basis until junior high school. They are packing in more and more and more at a younger age, and everyone wonders why the kids can't concentrate. There are less and less artistic and physical activities in school and we are pushing them and pushing them. My 2nd grade child has homework every night. SECOND GRADE!!! I told my husband that in 2nd grade, we were pasting cotton balls onto paper plates to make Santa Claus' beard! :lol: I HAVE complained to the school about this, too. |
Aphil -- I totally agree about docs just throwing pills at people -- kids and adults alike. Like I said in my earlier (long and rambly :)) post, they don't want to fix you they want to slap a band-aid on and collect your check on the way out.
Until my experiences I used to think that docs were the be all, end all and I always did exactly what they said because -- they were docs! I have to wonder if other parents also think this way and do not question the doc enough before saying ok to meds for their kids. I am much more cautious and ask TONS of questions now. And I take nothing they say as written in stone. I hear you about the school work. I hear rumblings of extending school to a year round thing sometimes and am so very, very opposed to it. I think recess needs to be part of the school day until high school (then they call them study halls! :lol:) You have your whole life to be a grown up and only one shot at being a kid. Why are so many in a rush to shove adulthood onto kids? :shrug: |
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"A shocking and amazing new study confirms what us country folk have known all along. Stop drugging kids - send them outside instead." I don't think I'm being overly insensitive at all. You start a post basically saying every parent that medicates is wrong and instead parents should do what you KNOW to be right - send them outside. I have family members who struggle with this every day, to see their pain dismisses so freaking cavalierly - just send them outside! The doctors, the special tutor, the diet changes - they are just stupid parents who don't know what good country people know! Reading it again - I'm still furious. I'm out of this thread, but I definitely won't forget it. |
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36paws Re : Society That's the main problem. We expect kids to sit down and shut up, and to not disturb anyone. It's also interesting to note that most kids {in my experience} with ADD/ADHD were actually very quick learners, when taught in a way that complimented the way their brains work. Aphil Re : GPs prescribing That's the biggest problem. Most of the issues that psychiatric/behavioral drugs are being prescribed for require much more extensive testing than a GP is either willing or capable of giving. I suffered with migraines for years, and my GP just handed me a Rx and said have a good day. Years later, I visited a neurologist, who informed me that I would need X, Y and Z tests to properly diagnose it. The GPs should be referring, not prescribing. ladybugnessa *hug* I'm sorry! The intent was not to upset, but to bring up something that has been of particular importance to me in recent years. I've said multiple times in this thread that some individuals need the medication; similarly, as aphil pointed out, many people need antidepressants. The problem I not-too-politically addressed was the overuse of drugs as crutches. The public schools in my area have a "doctor" who is in charge of doping up the kids. Teachers will tell parents of children with "behavioral disorders" to go to the doc for ADD/ADHD "testing". Problem 1 - teachers making medical diagnosis. Problem 2 - not exploring other alternatives. A kid who is "rowdy" in class may be bored, either because they don't understand or they already know what's being taught. This doctor has worked "for" the districts for 20 years, and my parents were actually referred to him when I was 7 years old. I don't have ADD, I needed to be in an accelerated class. My father approached the administrator about it, and was told that she [admin] understood, but they didn't have a class that met my needs, so the ritalin would help me "function" within normal boundaries. Hat Trick I'm sorry to hear that happened with your son; unfortunately, that's far too common. That's one of the reasons I think these studies are so important. Parents should be made aware and given the option to try medication-free cures before drugging kids up. Re : judging Believe me, I wasn't judging parents. I was judging the doctors. Re : statistics I got a "2 million" kids number from an article that collected the number of minor patients prescribed Ritalin each year. That's usually where those stats come from. Re : parents and meds I asked my last doc for a swab for my daughter's sinus pain. She looked at me funny and said "It's an infection." I informed her that I would rather be sure before giving her antibs and contributing to MRSA. It really put her off - she told me to not give her the medication, and to come back when the "infection" got worse. Turns out, I was right to err on the side of caution and it was a virus. Within the week, her pain was gone. Parents are conditioned to give their kids whatever Rx the doc hands them, because it makes them "bad parents" not to. Which is why I can't blame parents for the over-medication problem; what parent will say "no" to a magic pill that will improve their child's life? LisaMarie Thanks. :) |
I think the study methods might be a little questionable. Certainly, the conclusion in the thread title is COMPLETELY unsupported by the actual study.
In reading it in detail, it doesn't appear that they took 400 kids with ADHD diagnoses, gave half of them a medication and took half outside to play, and looked at outcomes. Instead, they had parents fill out questionnaires describing the kinds of outdoor activities kids did, and their symptoms afterward. This fails to account for all KINDS of variables that could affect ADHD symptoms...for example, if you're playing outside, how much focus do you need to use, how stressed are you, how impacted is your schedule that day? I'd wonder if kids whose parents were taking them outside to play had less going on that day, so they self-reported the child's ADHD symptoms as being less severe (how you interpret a child acting when you're at home, watching a movie with nothing else to do that is very pressing might be different from your interpretation of behavior when you are trying to get dinner on the table, trying to pay bills, trying to help the child with homework). The problem with using parental self-reporting is that it is so SUBJECTIVE...and this study has NO measures of actual symptoms, only parent interpretation of symptoms. I think it is pushing it (OK, more than pushing it) to extrapolate from this kind of study that "Ritalin is not needed for ADHD". And because this topic is kind of fraught with tension (as ANY topic would be that involves people judging or criticizing the decisions a parent makes for their child and that child's health), it has the potential to offend parents who are trying to make the best choices they can for their children to take this study and extrapolate to that conclusion. The most this study can really conclude is that "Parent report/interpret symptoms as less severe in their own children with ADHD after those children experience time outside in nature". As for a recent study, I can't find anything...though yesterday, the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence in the UK did make a recommendation that the use of such drugs should be only in severe cases and never in children under 5...and I think MOST of us here are agreeing that limiting use of the drugs to kids who really need them is a good thing. |
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