It isn't BS that people binge to smother pain. At all. Countless stories and case studies tell you - just visit something-fishy.org and read some really brave posts - that eating disorders ARE linked to pain. Because if they weren't , we;d all just be able to see food as fuel, and no-one'd have a problem.
I agree that some people arnt fat through emotional eating, some may be fat through modern availability of fast food etc. But you simply cannot ignore the fact that food problems are tied to eating. As another point to back this up, EDs are mainly (some men suffer, but mostly..) a female problem. Possibly then, unless all women are fat through laziness and simply *lovin ma food!"* its related to being a woman in western society....back to feelings again...
Greens, tell us a bit about yourself. Are you overweight now? Do you have a weight loss goal? Often people include their information in their Signatures so others can see where they are coming from.
Going back to an earlier post--yes, we are all going to die. No matter what your religious or non-religious beliefs may be, we are all going to die. Me, I don't care what my corpse looks like. Who knows what shape I'll be in? But right now, in this moment, I want to feel relatively healthy and happy. I didn't feel like that at just under 200 pounds and 5'3".
Also, none of us here is brainwashed, as far as I know. Please don't insult our intelligence! We are folks who are trying, and many of us have seen our programs work. Yeah, we're happy about that, right now!
I might be a rare success--but you know what, you can be, too! I did exactly what you're talking about here--and many other members here have as well--lost, gained back, lost again, round and round... I try to think of it as a learning experience rather than my own darn cussed stupidity!
But you have raised some very interesting issues. Much to think about!
When I was at my highest weight, eating what I wanted, I was miserable. I had stomach problems all the time, I had back problems and I had knee problems. I felt bloated all the time. I rarely have stomach problems these days, my back problems have disappeared and my knee problems are a rare occurrence (but they are damaged from the many years of being over 300 lbs)
I love food, I enjoy food but the food I enjoy has changed a bit because my taste buds have changed. I had ice cream the other day and my thought was "hmm this isn't that great" even though it was good for ice cream. Other foods that I used to eat often have the same reaction, the food just isn't as good as you remember it being.
I get a lot of pleasure from eating the healthier foods that I eat now rather than the foods I ate 3 years ago. I will even give myself permission to eat whatever I want, if I truly want it. Most often, I eat out of boredom though or eat because I think something will taste good or I just eat to eat.
I also love being active. I love being able to be active. I enjoy hiking and I'm astounded with my increased progress over when I was over 300 lbs. I recently got a dog and I am so excited to be able to walk her every morning and I can't wait to take her hiking with me. I love being able to lift weights and see how much strength can increase over time. I lived in a 4th floor apartment for 2 years without issue and now I live in a 3 floor town home and the stairs are a non issue.
I may not be thin but I feel so much better now than I did even 20 lbs heavier. The sense of accomplishment at losing weight is also a big boost to my over all self esteem. I used to really hate myself but it wasn't until I learned that I needed to support myself instead of down myself that I was able to make progress in losing weight. Overall, I enjoy life more now days more than ever.
It isn't BS that people binge to smother pain. At all. Countless stories and case studies tell you - just visit something-fishy.org and read some really brave posts - that eating disorders ARE linked to pain. Because if they weren't , we;d all just be able to see food as fuel, and no-one'd have a problem.
I agree that some people arnt fat through emotional eating, some may be fat through modern availability of fast food etc. But you simply cannot ignore the fact that food problems are tied to eating. As another point to back this up, EDs are mainly (some men suffer, but mostly..) a female problem. Possibly then, unless all women are fat through laziness and simply *lovin ma food!"* its related to being a woman in western society....back to feelings again...
emily
xxx
I'm sensing that the idea of loving food and the type of people that love food are repellent to you. It's not enough that they love their treats, they have to have suffered abuse to turn themselves into big, flabby eyesores. I think this is related to the conspiracy types that just can't believe Oswald was a nut who acted alone. People who blame it on pain are really blaming other people for their problem. It's too painful for them to admit that they just can't resist ice cream and goulash but that's what it really is.
Animals get treated like crap all the time. They're injured. No one takes care of their wounds. They get beat up in fights looking for mates. They don't eat themselves to death because of some lingering psychic pain from when they were young. But put in a raccoon McDonalds and give em a lifetime pass to eat whatever they want, as much as they want and watch them balloon. Teach them to read and write and they'll go to the library, read some of that crap about self medicating with food and pretty soon you'll have books written by fat raccoons telling all about their anguished lives and abusive upbringing.
Okay...no one is saying that people don't eat out of pure pleasure. What some of us are saying is that eating disorders-from the spectrum of anorexia all the way across the board to uncontrollable binge eating-DOES exist.
It was the original post where you said that it was "b.s." that was causing people to speak up. You were generalizing that eating disorders were bogus, as well as other addictions like alcoholism, etc.
You are also using the term abuse a lot coupled with eating disorders. Not all eating disorders are a result of abuse. Again, that is a generalization. There are many anorexics, bulimics, binge eaters, gamblers, and cigarette smokers who were never abused. Emotional eating, not eating, or other forms of addiction are not all because of the emotion "pain". Sometimes the trigger is stress, boredom, habit, etc. There are many, many things in play. Not all people eat, drink, gamble, shop, smoke, or what have you for the same reason. Addictions are complusions that have various causes, unqie to the person.
You can't generalize everyone. That is the point. Everyone's frustrations, triggers, and addictions are different. Some people simply eat a bit too much at each meal, causing an extra 20 pounds over the course of a few years. That isn't an eating disorder-that is simply needing to cut back a bit. Other people have issues where they strictly watch their food intake for weeks or months, and then succumb to a binge that can equal 3,000-4,000 calories in one sitting, and they can't control it. It isn't about just liking the taste of food-it is an episode where the person feels out of control.
Also, you have to compare apples with apples, not apples and oranges. If you have any religious beliefs at all-and I am not talking just about Christianity, but nearly every major religion-it recognizes us, as humans, that our ability to raltionalize, think ahead towards the future rather than just the "right now", the ability to know right from wrong and have moral beliefs and values, think of others before ourselves, and other things like this-are what separate us from the animals. All animals are unique in the way that they are to be genetically-some female spiders eat their mates after mating with them...male seahorses are the only species that do the "mother" role. Birds regurgitate food into their babies mouths. They are not people.
I value animals greatly, but you can't compare us to them.
I have some questions. Are you here for weight loss support? Do you truly want to lose weight? What are your frustrations with your weight loss personally? How much are you wanting to lose? How are you trying to do it? Are you here for yourself truly, or just to get everyone's skirts in a bunch?
I firmly believe and stand by all I've written from my experiences and others. Of course, my opinions may change someday. Not today though!
The animal bit seems a little absurd..I'll just say "I agree to disagree".
I love food, and it doesn't repel me that others would at all. There's a reason I sometimes stuff my face and other times I don't though. I always enjoy eating ice cream (unless I'm ill) - the simple difference is, sometimes I enjoy eating it from hunger, sometimes from emotional problems.
But I'm not fat and flabby. I'm not sure therefore its a black and white issue at all. I can binge, I can starve, I enjoy food in general, but my emotions do play a part..sorry!
For one, I guess I somewhat I agree. When I was struggling with an eating disorder, it made me irritated that my therapist tried to pin it on my sexual abuse as a child, or from the fat comments my parents used to make. But I always knew - and still maintain - that starving myself or purging food was a conscious choice I made EVERY single time I did it. I didn't feel sorry for myself. I knew exactly what I was doing each time I did it, and I knew exactly the consequences I would get from it. I still chose to do it, regardless.
Essentially, I chose to overeat and to stop taking care of myself, and I went the other way on the scale. Now, I have to pay for my actions, just as I did when I had an eating disorder.
I understand where you are coming from. I really cannot stand entitlement attitudes.
Everybody has choices. And I don't think we're this way because of capitalism - we still have a choice to buy healthy food or grow our own food, exercise, and take care of ourselves. We don't HAVE to go to McDonald's, but we do. We don't HAVE to drive cars to work, but we do. I will be the first to admit that I love convenience, and I know that's what contributed to my weight gain. I would rather have pizza delivered than even DRIVE to the place myself, or better yet, make a healthy version at home. My husband will gripe at me for wanting to take my car to Jiffy Lube to get an oil change when he is perfectly capable of doing it himself at home - "and save money!", as he says. But for me, it's convenience.
The point is, whatever the reason you eat too much food is because you've chosen to. Nobody is force-feeding you. Nobody is saying "EAT THIS HAMBURGER OR I'LL CUT YOUR THROAT!" I'm fat because I chose to get to this place, not because of some outside force or cause. I'm fat because I chose to forgo caring about myself. I totally take responsibility for gaining weight. I know how I got myself here, and I know how I plan to get myself out of it.
I didn't choose the risk factors running against me - family history of diabetes and heart disease - but I can choose to lower my risk as much as possible.
Does chocolate taste good? Absolutely. But every time I choose chocolate over a piece of fruit or a handful of veggies, I'm choosing not to care about myself in the long run.
And for the record, I really hate exercise. I don't like it at all, and unlike others, I don't really feel good after I do it. I do it because I make the choice to be good to my heart and the rest of my body/mind every time I go to the gym.
Last edited by 2Fat4myJeans; 08-08-2007 at 02:51 PM.
Reason: spelling!
Hey Greens, your tone has gotten a little disrespectful. Let's all try to behave in a civilized manner. No one likes to be referred to as "big flabby eyesores," etc.
What is your point, Greens? I'm not understanding what you want from this exchange.
I looked for an appropriate place to put this topic and there wasn't a perfect spot. This seemed to be the best fit. I've been using Z trim. That's a dietary product. I'm interested in the real cause of obesity and I have some opinions on it. If this is the kind of place that doesn't like "strange" ideas (most places on the internet don't even though they say they're open minded) then people's skirts will get in a bunch.
The statements about animals are somewhat absurd but not entirely. Humans are animals. We have physical bodies that have to deal with the same problems that animals have to deal with. We need to get around, find food, stay hydrated and nourished and warm if we're warm blooded. We need to reproduce. We have a lot in common.
Quote:
The animal would not gorge itself because it's easy... animals instinctually eat whatever food is available when it is available because there are times in natures when food is not available and it does it to protect itself and store fat.
Dogs are animals. Pet dogs of fat people are having an obesity epidemic. Where's that instinct to eat only what is needed? I think that's what you meant to say.
Pet dogs act just like humans. They want to reexperience pleasurable sensations. My dog wants more and more greenies and biscuits. I think he wants more than he needs just like I want more than I need. He can pass on breakfast, lunch and sometimes even dinner just like I used to, even if he's just sitting around. I can't do that anymore. I have taught myself to shop and cook and go to drive thrus. I have learned the pleasures of Doritos. He hasn't. That's why I have a weight problem and he doesn't.
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Animals don't have psychological disorders because they are animals.
Dogs get phobias. Mine has a fear of linoleum and it's common. You can look it up. They have separation anxiety. They get all kinds of psychological problems. How different are they from chipmunks and woodchucks? My guess is they're not much different.
On to a different subject: I like being active too. The trouble is I have accumulated a lot of injuries from being heavy and too active. These are injuries that in a way you can say they are caused by weight loss schemes and the love of tennis, roller bladding, bicycling, hiking, weight lifting. When I try to lose weight and I formulate a plan, I tend to persist with it and ignore pain because it screws my plans. BIG PROBLEM - I HATE "MODERATION". I used to hear that all the time. "Moderation". Maybe it's something you learn when you're a kid. I don't like it. TV taught me that peole who don't moderate are cooler. Excess was idolized in the sixties. I even had a teacher who was crazy about Peter the Great. He was a skinny guy who raved about the wonderful accomplishments and feasts of Peter the Great. I also remember people raving about Jim Morrison and how he could do fifty tabs of acid and couple of quarts of whiskey and still perform, go out for more drinks later. People idolize that sort of thing. Moderate people are bores. Whew!
Sure we have lots in common with animals. But there are way more things that we DON'T have in common with them. An animal wouldn't sit there and type out these messages that you are writing for one. You just can not compare it in the manner that you are.
I think that you are very angry for some reason and for whateverhardships you went through, I am truly sorry. I also think you are looking to blame others for your weight situation. You still have yet to tell us just how much you are looking to lose and what stage of the journey you are in.
I think you probably would like to be thin and fit and healthy and are just not willing to work at it. At some point in ones life, no matter how much junk we went through as kids, myself included, we have to take ownership and take responsibility for our lives.
As for Jim Morrison, well we don't need to look any further then him. Perfect example, I'm glad you brought him up. He certainly didn't believe in moderation according to youand look where it left him. Drugs, alcohol - food - name your posion. It's all the same. Good old unboring, unmoderation Jimmy boy is dead. At age 27.
It's one thing to love food, which I do, always did , always will, it's a totally different story when one abuses it. After years of abusing myself with food, I finally decided to own up to it, acknowledge it and CHANGE it. I may not like moderation, but given the alternative, I choose it. And I most certainly had to learn it at age 42. It's hard - but doable. Moderation or death? Hmmm.. Yeah, I choose moderation.
Last edited by rockinrobin; 08-08-2007 at 03:24 PM.
If this is the kind of place that doesn't like "strange" ideas (most places on the internet don't even though they say they're open minded) then people's skirts will get in a bunch.
I think it's not so much strange ideas people don't like, so much as feeling insulted. This is first and foremost a support forum, and while we all don't agree all of the time (that's for sure!), we attempt to treat each other civilly. And I think most of us have had to learn that just because we experience something a particular way, doesn't mean that's what everyone else experiences. So when you make broad and unqualified statements like "Parental abuse, bully abuse has nothing to do with being fat" of course you are going to piss some people off.
Who knows, maybe you are right. But you don't really provide any strong evidence to back you up and have no markers to identifty your tone (those gorgeous smilies! ). You just seem like you want to argue about it.
Don't get me wrong, we have lots of GREAT discussions around here. And probably many of us do have "strange ideas". But skirts get in a bunch not from strange ideas but from people who seem to blindly pass judgment on others.
You may not mean to be disrespectful, but that's how you're coming off, in the opinion of this "big flabby eyesore".
All that being said, I think you make some good points -- for instance I agree that dogs get phobias (and so would most behaviorists).
And as for "moderation" -- I think many of us find it an ongoing struggle. It's a great topic to discuss, and perhaps where you were headed when you started this thread?
I'm interested in the real cause of obesity and I have some opinions on it.
The real cause? For me, I'm learning my real causes (plural) as I go along on this weight loss journey. So far, I've found that I have a ton of causes. If I wait until I know all of my causes before I begin this journey, I really don't think I'd ever figure them out. Sometimes, we just have to decide to 'Just Do It!"
3FC is full of people who have succeeded in fighting this journey....several of them have posted right here on this thread. Wouldn't we be incredibly foolish in discounting their viewpoints on eating healthy and exercising if we hope to attain the same success? As for me, I have no intention of being foolish.
I agree with the fact that dogs have emotional issues, phobias, etc. as well-a friend has a dog who they have to give tranquiizers every 4th of July because the sound of fireworks makes him spastic. But-the reason is because like an infant, he doesn't understand what is making the noise, why, that it is harmless, and so on and so forth. I used to have a cocker spaniel who howled whenever she heard the whistling theme song to the Andy Griffith Show. Animals have feelings and emotions, but the point is, is that their personalities, learning abilities, emotions, etc. don't really expand and progress as far as ours do.
It isn't about you having extreme ideas, or ideas off the beaten path-that isn't why you aren't getting good responses. It is all about the delivery, first and foremost, and also that you are generalizing people, etc.
Every person is different, therefore the cause of their obesity is different. For one person, it may simply be a lifestyle change such as going from an active job to a desk job-and they simply aren't burning as many calories in a day. For someone else it may be simple overeating, even though they eat healthy foods. For another person it may be a very sedentary lifestyle, doubled with a habit of stopping at Starbucks for a 400 calorie mocha each morning. Everyone has different habits that made them gain weight. This is also why one person might be 10 pounds overweight, and another person might be 100 pounds overweight. It all comes down to burning more calories than you take in, but everyone has different issues and struggles that they face that are personal. For one person it may be the co-worker who leaves a jar of Reeses Pieces on their desk that sabotoges their efforts, and for others it might be their Aunt Betty who keeps bringing brownies to your house, because she knows that you are trying to lose weight. Another person might find that they have a hard time adjusting to healthy foods...another might enjoy fish and fruit but simply has more trouble eating too much of it.
We gain weight because we take in more calories than we consume, period. That is the cause of obesity that you are looking for. But, in that black and white statement, there are lots of shades of gray that need to be dealt with on a personal level-everyone's habits and likes and lifestyles are different, so the same methods of weight loss don't work for everyone.
One thing isn't going to cure obesity for everyone in our society-not a pill, not a single diet plan, nor one single exercise method. No one thing is for everyone. The cure for obesity is burning more than you take in, but that is done by different means for different people-just as teh process of gaining weight is. For one person that might be calorie counting and walking, for another it might be South Beach Diet and lifting weights. We best diet plan and exercise regime is what you find works for you-for your lifestyle, your likes/dislikes, etc.
So, I am still scratching my head at the whole exchange here...
We have a forum called "Does It Work?" where people post about different weight loss supplements etc. Also, there was a long discussion about Z-trim awhile back. Here's the link:
We are folks who are trying, and many of us have seen our programs work. Yeah, we're happy about that, right now! 
