Originally Posted by Oneten:
HW - 24 is AU6 so American 0- small 2 to my understanding, 25 would be closer to 2 (but depends on the stretch of the jeans of course).

I have recently found out that I am both lactose and gluten intolerant and have been ignoring this as the symptoms are fairly minor. However now I think I will take it seriously, as I am also asthmatic and apparently dairy products and gluten contribute to asthma symptoms too.

Will try to have more rice I guess, and tofu and vegetables. I'm a bit stumped as I am always on the go so need to find restaurants/cafes that provide these foods rather than cooking at home.

Any ideas?

I can relate to the asthma/dairy thing. I had asthma very badly as a kid (didn't happen a lot, but seemed serious when it did), and then it came back with a vengeance when I was in my 20s. Somehow I learned that dairy can contribute by - please forgive me - making people have more mucous. So I gave it up, back then, and the asthma went away almost immediately! :carrot:

I have since started to have dairy, but not in the quantities I was before. And if I do have a larger amount, the symptoms can come back. But it freaks me out so much I back off easily.

Intermittent fasting is supposed to help asthma, I guess because it reduces inflammation, but that would be something you'd have to talk with your doctor about.

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
HW - HA! Love that "goal shirt". Teriffic. :)

Oneten - I think I'm slightly lactose intolerant, too. They say it just gets worse with age. Wonderful...

Mottainai - Laying in bed watching Netflix w the babe sounds like a pretty sweet day (minus the stress, of course...). If I have a long unstructured day ahead of me, I find it helps to plan out my meals (or an approximation of my meals) so that I can have something to look forward to and not go too far off the rails. Did your project get done???

~~~

So minutes after my post yesterday, I got terrible news that a friend from church had a massive seizure and passed away yesterday morning. She was young, married with a 6 year old son. Completely unexpected. I thought it was an awful misunderstanding at first. Still kind of in shock. Her husband runs the AV team and I do powerpoints with him on Sunday mornings. Still can't believe it. Was just with their family on Sunday.

Food was minimal yesterday, but really weird. Got home super late and ate a can of sauerkraut and condensed milk (emotional eating for sure...) weight is back up to 150.8. Ugh. I also think that I'm mid cycle, which doesn't help at all.

Just turned in our proposal (was a bit hairy in the office up until the final hour, but alls well that ends well, I hope...) Oy.

Have a small group tonight, then hoping to do some more work on a personal project that I have. I'm about 10% done and have given myself a soft due date of Sunday. We'll see how that works....

Have a fantastic feather day, everyone!!!

Alexis, I'm so sorry about your friend - what a shock! And that poor family. May God bless and comfort them all, and you.

Originally Posted by mottainai:
Oneten, I am lactose intolerant too, but I love cheese and ice cream too much to stay away, lol. I find that as long as I have at least some dairy everyday, instead of only occasionally, the symptoms are not so bad, and the rest I just deal with as being worth it! YMMV though. And of course there's always Lactaid!! Miracle worker. Just can't buy it here!

I need some motivation today. Had a loooong sleepless night with the baby, and have a long day ahead of me alone at home. Tired + stress + bored = eating all day on junk food, but I don't want to do that today, so.... I'm giving myself permission to lay in bed with baby and watch hours an hours of Netflix.

I think you and Sara will both benefit from that quality time - sounds like a perfect plan! :carrot:

HW ~ Thanks for the kind words. I feel like our whole community is hurting but we're definitely pulling together.

Re: IF - I remember really liking it when I did it, but it was tough to fit into a schedule. Do you have people around you who support your plan?

Re: Health - I feel like so many problems are caused by inflammation...

Oneten ~ *hug* thank you...

Mottainai ~ How was your day yesterday?

~~~
Wake is on Saturday and memorial is on Sunday, so this weekend will be rough.

Meeting a friend for dinner and shopping later tonight, then hoping to have a few hours rest tomorrow morning.

Mom leaves for Thailand on Sunday, too, so Ima be trekking out to the airport. She's gone for two weeks so hoping to get a few chores done around the house.

Had a really great small group with friends last night. We've been together for almost three years and it was really good to spend time with them. We've been through job loss, deaths, job gain, engagements, marriages and pregnancy.

Yesterday's food was again, a bit weird. Wasn't hungry all day, then had some flax chips and three slices of pizza later in the evening. Stayed up late to work on another project, then finished off the night with a glass of wine. Weighed in at 148.8 this morning.

Today's Plan:

B - egg & cheese English muffin/ 2 slices toast

L - veggie wrap

D - Whole Foods salad bar.

Have a fabulous day, feather friends!

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
HW ~ Thanks for the kind words. I feel like our whole community is hurting but we're definitely pulling together.

Re: IF - I remember really liking it when I did it, but it was tough to fit into a schedule. Do you have people around you who support your plan?

Re: Health - I feel like so many problems are caused by inflammation...

Oneten ~ *hug* thank you...

Mottainai ~ How was your day yesterday?

~~~
Wake is on Saturday and memorial is on Sunday, so this weekend will be rough.

Meeting a friend for dinner and shopping later tonight, then hoping to have a few hours rest tomorrow morning.

Mom leaves for Thailand on Sunday, too, so Ima be trekking out to the airport. She's gone for two weeks so hoping to get a few chores done around the house.

Had a really great small group with friends last night. We've been together for almost three years and it was really good to spend time with them. We've been through job loss, deaths, job gain, engagements, marriages and pregnancy.

Yesterday's food was again, a bit weird. Wasn't hungry all day, then had some flax chips and three slices of pizza later in the evening. Stayed up late to work on another project, then finished off the night with a glass of wine. Weighed in at 148.8 this morning.

Today's Plan:

B - egg & cheese English muffin/ 2 slices toast

L - veggie wrap

D - Whole Foods salad bar.

Have a fabulous day, feather friends!

Your plan sounds good. Don't you love the Whole Foods salad bar? On my Down Days, when I'm traveling, i am allowed to fill up one of those big containers with anything that isn't a cooked dish, plus some plain chicken or other protein. :D

As far as my support system for intermittent fasting (IF): My husband has to carefully watch his sugar. He has found the best way to lower it is, surprise! fasting. So we both spend a lot of time NOT eating (which is totally against our natures, lol), just drinking water and herbal tea. But I continue to lose weight, safely, and he (who is at a healthy, lower BMI) continues to keep his sugar numbers between 100 and 150, without medication. :)

The rest of my family and friends have gotten used to the system. They just know that some days, I eat much less, and others, I'm paying for pizza (or making a low-carb version) for everyone! Do we have a dancing slice smilie? :dancer:

Wanted to share a great quote I heard today:

“An entire sea of water can’t sink a ship unless it gets inside the ship. Similarly, the negativity of the world can’t put you down unless you allow it to get inside you.”

-Goi Nasu

Originally Posted by Oneten:
Wanted to share a great quote I heard today:

“An entire sea of water can’t sink a ship unless it gets inside the ship. Similarly, the negativity of the world can’t put you down unless you allow it to get inside you.”

-Goi Nasu

I love that! I guess you could say we can use something that could sink us to "float our boat" instead! :)

Originally Posted by Oneten:
Wanted to share a great quote I heard today:

“An entire sea of water can’t sink a ship unless it gets inside the ship. Similarly, the negativity of the world can’t put you down unless you allow it to get inside you.”

-Goi Nasu

Great quote!

HW ~ You're making me remember the good old days of fasting... I remember it really worked well when I did it, but my biggest challenge was that when it came time to eat, I couldn't stop eating.

~~~
Weekend was super messy food wise. I had a lot of disgusting sugar by myself that was not at all beneficial. It would be easy to say that it was "emotional eating" but I think it was more like "eff it" eating...

Ideally, I would have been braver and addressed the feelings head on. Word to the wise. I ought to do some writing on this... It may sound cliche, but journaling is one of the tools that always makes me feel better no matter what.

Hey guys, no time too chat lately! We had a busy weekend, as it was my husband's turn to work all weekend (crazy!), so that meant no real weekend for me either. My MIL also went on an onsen trip with her friends, so I also had no baby-sitter to relieve me of my duties. This week should be a little calmer though. Yesterday we hung out with new baby/mama friends. And I think I've discovered a great trick- I'm pretty sure my baby's been so fussy just because I'm letting her get overtired. When I make more effort to get her napping throughout the day, she plays so much nicer nad calmer! (:

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
Great quote!

HW ~ You're making me remember the good old days of fasting... I remember it really worked well when I did it, but my biggest challenge was that when it came time to eat, I couldn't stop eating.

~~~
Weekend was super messy food wise. I had a lot of disgusting sugar by myself that was not at all beneficial. It would be easy to say that it was "emotional eating" but I think it was more like "eff it" eating...

Ideally, I would have been braver and addressed the feelings head on. Word to the wise. I ought to do some writing on this... It may sound cliche, but journaling is one of the tools that always makes me feel better no matter what.

Know that feeling. The only thing that stops me is thinking about the after effects. Is there a way to eat something that will allow you to get that pleasure of eating without undermining your plans? An example for me - and not everyone likes this - is a big bunch of oatmeal, maybe with fruit and/or nuts, and something to pour over it of your choice. I know it has a lot of calories, but it's going to be - if you like oatmeal - satisfying and filling, with the added benefit of being good for you. Maybe you have something along those lines that can fill the bill...

I'm one to talk. I bought two candy bars and two pints of ice cream on Friday, my first Up Day of the week. And it's just what you were saying: I was off the "fast" and hungry! Did throw one of the bars and one of the pints away, because I didn't like the tastes. The other ice cream is just sitting there, because it had something in it I'm not crazy over (graham cracker crust).

But the truth of the matter is, I can only eat a certain amount now without getting uncomfortable, and even nauseous, if I'm not careful. All this intermittent fasting is like a natural lapband! And I'm pretty much a big baby for pain/discomfort. So I have to make my meals count, before I'm too full to eat any more.

Edit: Oh, yeah, the good old days of fasting! Where I didn't know how, and would eat as much as I could before the fast began. This "fasting" is different, not in small part because it's not really fasting - it's eating 600 calories, which yesterday, for example, was a nice juicy piece of pork tenderloin and a huge salad, with a double-and-a-half serving of Marie's Super Blue Cheese dressing! :broc:

Originally Posted by mottainai:
Hey guys, no time too chat lately! We had a busy weekend, as it was my husband's turn to work all weekend (crazy!), so that meant no real weekend for me either. My MIL also went on an onsen trip with her friends, so I also had no baby-sitter to relieve me of my duties. This week should be a little calmer though. Yesterday we hung out with new baby/mama friends. And I think I've discovered a great trick- I'm pretty sure my baby's been so fussy just because I'm letting her get overtired. When I make more effort to get her napping throughout the day, she plays so much nicer nad calmer! (:

Good to see you! :) A nice bit of detective work on your part, and Sara and you both are the beneficiaries. :carrot:

Originally Posted by HungerWerks:
Know that feeling. The only thing that stops me is thinking about the after effects. Is there a way to eat something that will allow you to get that pleasure of eating without undermining your plans? An example for me - and not everyone likes this - is a big bunch of oatmeal, maybe with fruit and/or nuts, and something to pour over it of your choice. I know it has a lot of calories, but it's going to be - if you like oatmeal - satisfying and filling, with the added benefit of being good for you. Maybe you have something along those lines that can fill the bill...

I'm one to talk. I bought two candy bars and two pints of ice cream on Friday, my first Up Day of the week. And it's just what you were saying: I was off the "fast" and hungry! Did throw one of the bars and one of the pints away, because I didn't like the tastes. The other ice cream is just sitting there, because it had something in it I'm not crazy over (graham cracker crust).

But the truth of the matter is, I can only eat a certain amount now without getting uncomfortable, and even nauseous, if I'm not careful. All this intermittent fasting is like a natural lapband! And I'm pretty much a big baby for pain/discomfort. So I have to make my meals count, before I'm too full to eat any more.

Edit: Oh, yeah, the good old days of fasting! Where I didn't know how, and would eat as much as I could before the fast began. This "fasting" is different, not in small part because it's not really fasting - it's eating 600 calories, which yesterday, for example, was a nice juicy piece of pork tenderloin and a huge salad, with a double-and-a-half serving of Marie's Super Blue Cheese dressing! :broc:

You know, the more I read about what you write, the more I remember the benefits of fasting. I remember being so much more clearheaded and calm throughout the day. I think my issues came when I locked myself into a strict schedule. Once in awhile, plans with friends or family would appear spontaneously and I would be all mad at myself for not being able to eat with them.

The disciplines I gathered from fasting definitely helped me to limit my unnecessary eating, though. I suppose I am doing a modified form when I don't eat from 8PM until 6AM the next morning.

Originally Posted by mottainai:
Hey guys, no time too chat lately! We had a busy weekend, as it was my husband's turn to work all weekend (crazy!), so that meant no real weekend for me either. My MIL also went on an onsen trip with her friends, so I also had no baby-sitter to relieve me of my duties. This week should be a little calmer though. Yesterday we hung out with new baby/mama friends. And I think I've discovered a great trick- I'm pretty sure my baby's been so fussy just because I'm letting her get overtired. When I make more effort to get her napping throughout the day, she plays so much nicer and calmer! (:

Awwww! Good for you for figuring that out! I chuckle as the same principle applies for adults (don't get over tired...) Glad you're finding new baby/mama friends.


~~~
Yesterday's food was still the tail end of crazy, although I knew why I was eating (awareness, acceptance, action) Have been a bit calmer these days. (knock wood) Going on a women's retreat with my church (or "cult" as I call it with my best friend)

Working on a side project on my own. Have imposed a deadline of this Friday so I can go on this retreat and enjoy the weekend. Have 4,000 more words to go.... (I work at a pace of about 1,000 words an hour...)

Happy feather day, everyone!

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
You know, the more I read about what you write, the more I remember the benefits of fasting. I remember being so much more clearheaded and calm throughout the day. I think my issues came when I locked myself into a strict schedule. Once in awhile, plans with friends or family would appear spontaneously and I would be all mad at myself for not being able to eat with them.

The disciplines I gathered from fasting definitely helped me to limit my unnecessary eating, though. I suppose I am doing a modified form when I don't eat from 8PM until 6AM the next morning.

respectfully snipped


~~~
Yesterday's food was still the tail end of crazy, although I knew why I was eating (awareness, acceptance, action) Have been a bit calmer these days. (knock wood) Going on a women's retreat with my church (or "cult" as I call it with my best friend)

Working on a side project on my own. Have imposed a deadline of this Friday so I can go on this retreat and enjoy the weekend. Have 4,000 more words to go.... (I work at a pace of about 1,000 words an hour...)

Happy feather day, everyone!

Nice pace! That's like three typed pages, if I'm remembering correctly from school.

As far as not being able to eat with friends: What I've done is make looser rules for when these situations arise. Like, when I'm traveling on a Down Day, I can have big salads with protein in them (one, and not mayo based). I can have hard candy. I can have zero calorie drinks. Whoopie! :carrot: But what I try to do is visit when I'm having an Up Day or two. Then all bets are off! ;)

Have fun at your retreat! I love those things. :)

HW ~ It is about 3 typed pages... The challenge is getting to a mental space where I can keep it going. I scatter too much of my time away....

~~~
Had a weird night. Crashed on the couch around 9PM for what I hoped would be a quick "nap"... then five minutes later I'm waking up at 3AM... Ooops. Managed to get the 1000 words in from 3:45-5AM. I know where I'm going. The biggest challenge now is getting myself to focus and cranking out the words!

Am in a really weird space eating, too. Am just hungry allllll the time. Alll I want to do is eat. Ugh. I know that it's emotional (not even hormonal), but it's still not the most fun... Trying to fill up on water first.

Hang in there, all!

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
HW ~ It is about 3 typed pages... The challenge is getting to a mental space where I can keep it going. I scatter too much of my time away....

~~~
Had a weird night. Crashed on the couch around 9PM for what I hoped would be a quick "nap"... then five minutes later I'm waking up at 3AM... Ooops. Managed to get the 1000 words in from 3:45-5AM. I know where I'm going. The biggest challenge now is getting myself to focus and cranking out the words!

Am in a really weird space eating, too. Am just hungry allllll the time. Alll I want to do is eat. Ugh. I know that it's emotional (not even hormonal), but it's still not the most fun... Trying to fill up on water first.

Hang in there, all!

Can relate to the scattered thing. I'm usually doing five "projects" at once. I seem to get bored with concentrating on one thing, unles it's super-interesting - like Featherweight threads! :carrot:

I love those impromptu "naps" - yours was wonderfully long! I'm sure you came up with all kinds of good ideas, that will appear as you need them...

As far as being hungry all the time, that is my problem. I don't know when to eat and not to eat, because of constant hunger. So I put my own woman-made limits down.

I am a little worried about making weight this week, though. I'm a pound up from where I should be, and am considering a true water fast tomorrow, so I make weight by Friday, when we'll be having company. This would be the first time in this three-year span that I've done a true fast, rather than just ate 600 or so calories for the day (five days a week, 3000+ the other two).

I think the problem is that I didn't exercise at all this week. Or it possibly could have been the extra "free" 200 calories worth of blueberries and raw nuts I added so I could digest my vitamins in the morning, when I'm not having a main meal until night. Or both! :D

Edit: I can even be hungry when I'm full, if that makes any sense! :dizzy:

HW ~ Boy, do I feel you on the whole idea of not knowing when you're hungry... and being "hungry" even when you're full. If you have any sort of challenging eating history, it can be SO difficult to tell real from faux hunger.

Thanks to your influence, I'm going to try fasting tonight. Going over to a friend's house for dinner and going to try to fast until then (about 19 hours since my last meal).

Does fasting work with your history? I have a love/hate relationship with water-only fasts... They have not worked well for me at all in the past, but you do what you gotta do to make weight. If it works for you, then work it, girl!

(and lol - my "nap" was less of a nap and more of a "involuntary shut down". Go figure... Ah, well... seemed like I needed it!)


~~~
Had a bit of a bender last night. Home from group around 10:15PM, then laid into an entire bag of chips, our stash of frozen mounds bars, hershey's kisses and a leftover frosty from Wendy's.

I knew that it was 100% emotional eating and the weird thing was, I felt better after doing it. Felt like when I was eating I wasn't thinking about anything else and was able to just turn off my brain. I know all the things I should have done (Take a bath, do my nails, clean something, etc.) but the thing that made me feel better was eating my face off. Dangerous, but I'm aware of it.

Actually had a productive evening, despite the bender: took a bath, did my laundry, wrote 1500 words, then crashed around 2:30AM. Feeling OK this morning. A little "blah" but really, that's to be expected. Caffeine-d up and ready to get moving today at work.

Hoping to do another 1500 tonight and be DONE with the project later this evening so I can go on retreat and re-lax!!!!

Originally Posted by Alexistrophic:
HW ~ Boy, do I feel you on the whole idea of not knowing when you're hungry... and being "hungry" even when you're full. If you have any sort of challenging eating history, it can be SO difficult to tell real from faux hunger.

Thanks to your influence, I'm going to try fasting tonight. Going over to a friend's house for dinner and going to try to fast until then (about 19 hours since my last meal).

Does fasting work with your history? I have a love/hate relationship with water-only fasts... They have not worked well for me at all in the past, but you do what you gotta do to make weight. If it works for you, then work it, girl!

(and lol - my "nap" was less of a nap and more of a "involuntary shut down". Go figure... Ah, well... seemed like I needed it!)


~~~
Had a bit of a bender last night. Home from group around 10:15PM, then laid into an entire bag of chips, our stash of frozen mounds bars, hershey's kisses and a leftover frosty from Wendy's.

I knew that it was 100% emotional eating and the weird thing was, I felt better after doing it. Felt like when I was eating I wasn't thinking about anything else and was able to just turn off my brain. I know all the things I should have done (Take a bath, do my nails, clean something, etc.) but the thing that made me feel better was eating my face off. Dangerous, but I'm aware of it.

Actually had a productive evening, despite the bender: took a bath, did my laundry, wrote 1500 words, then crashed around 2:30AM. Feeling OK this morning. A little "blah" but really, that's to be expected. Caffeine-d up and ready to get moving today at work.

Hoping to do another 1500 tonight and be DONE with the project later this evening so I can go on retreat and re-lax!!!!

Your post brings up SO many interesting questions!

As far as having a challenging eating history: I do like to eat until I'm full. Not sick full or nauseous full, but full full, lol. But I get that "un-full" feeling again very quickly, so I think that indicates unresolved issues with security or something. Deep, yes, but I'm kind of psychologically-minded - TIA for your kind indulgence on that. ;)

Fasting works NOW with my history. In the past, as mentioned in a previous post, I would stuff myself before and after a fast, which isn't the way to do it. It's because I couldn't remain calm in the face of hunger. Now I can, so it's o. k. - fasting works when you "remain calm and do something else," if I may paraphrase a popular saying-of-the-moment.

Or at least drag myself back from the precipice of panic. That does happen, but it is only momentary, as I tell myself "Hungry or fat?" The resolve to not gain weight outweighs, ironically enough, the intense desire for food. Am I going to die? No. I'm not underweight, so there's no danger to me. Am I under-nourished? No. I eat a lot of greens, good protein, take vitamins, etc. So the hunger is just a not-too-interesting signal from my reptilian brain that can be safely ignored in my case.

I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV, but it sounds like the sugar is changing your brain chemistry and making you happy. Probably has to do with serotonin, IIRC. Maybe you can, when that urge starts to hit, eat protein first? That will satiate you somewhat, quell that urge somewhat, and slow the blood sugar drop that you might experience without it, after eating sugar. Just a suggestion. Sorry if I'm overstepping my bounds in any way.

It reminds me of when we used to go to the Chinese buffet. I would make many, many trips to the buffet, untold numbers. Now, I start with soup, then salad, then the things I REALLY want. So the protein would, presumably do the same thing as the soup and salad, plus the ameliorating effect on the possible plummet of the blood sugar. Again, check with your doctor before following any of my advice. :D

Congrats on the 1500 words, and have a blast on your retreat! Now I just have to finish getting caffed up and go start on the many must-dos for today. :broc:

HW ~ Thanks for the words... Much to consider. I KNOW that the sugar is what was making me feel better so as smart as it would have been to eat the protein first... just couldn't do it.

~~~
Oh, the deadlines. They never stop coming.

At least the office is a bit quieter. That's a plus.

Here's hoping for a calm end to the day and start of the retreat!

Originally Posted by HungerWerks:
Fasting works NOW with my history. In the past, as mentioned in a previous post, I would stuff myself before and after a fast, which isn't the way to do it. It's because I couldn't remain calm in the face of hunger. Now I can, so it's o. k. - fasting works when you "remain calm and do something else," if I may paraphrase a popular saying-of-the-moment.

Or at least drag myself back from the precipice of panic. That does happen, but it is only momentary, as I tell myself "Hungry or fat?" The resolve to not gain weight outweighs, ironically enough, the intense desire for food. Am I going to die? No. I'm not underweight, so there's no danger to me. Am I under-nourished? No. I eat a lot of greens, good protein, take vitamins, etc. So the hunger is just a not-too-interesting signal from my reptilian brain that can be safely ignored in my case.

HungerWerks, I love this!

This is something I'm really struggling with now. I'm a serious foodie and really love cooking and eating food (who doesn't?), so even when I'm not dieting, I feel hungry all the time. But not... HUNGRY... just, wanting to eat yummy food. Constantly.

When I'm dieting, food is all I think about. Just, eating it. All the time. And I'm fully aware that it's a mental issue and not a physical one - I'm getting plenty of calories and good nutrition - I just WANT to eat more.

Hopefully with more practice, I get better at controlling that distinction and am able to stay calm so the dieting and "hunger" don't completely dominate my thoughts.

Originally Posted by omnomgirl:
HungerWerks, I love this!

This is something I'm really struggling with now. I'm a serious foodie and really love cooking and eating food (who doesn't?), so even when I'm not dieting, I feel hungry all the time. But not... HUNGRY... just, wanting to eat yummy food. Constantly.

When I'm dieting, food is all I think about. Just, eating it. All the time. And I'm fully aware that it's a mental issue and not a physical one - I'm getting plenty of calories and good nutrition - I just WANT to eat more.

Hopefully with more practice, I get better at controlling that distinction and am able to stay calm so the dieting and "hunger" don't completely dominate my thoughts.

Great comment - it reminds me of a website named something like "idreamoffoodallday.c" or something similar.

I literally cannot tell the difference between different kinds of hunger. It's all MUST EAT NOW. I guess that's why I'm able to dismiss it, in part, because logically these can't ALL be hunger emergencies - someone is lying to me, lol! That reptilian part of the brain just sits there and goes, "Who, me?" :D

Hubby was insisting "You can't be hungry all the time. You can't be hungry when you're full." He was suggesting that perhaps some of that might be termed "craving." He came up with some other good terms, also, which I wrote down. But this is what happens when you clean off your desk - things disappear! But his point was well taken. Maybe there might be other ways to describe the feelings I have, terms that may make it easier to ignore them. :carrot: