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Old 12-02-2010, 06:51 PM   #31  
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Devil's advocate here.

I am okay with the term "holiday." I would hate for anyone to feel excluded. The word "Christmas" doesn't offend me but may I say--in many contexts I find it ignorant. (I said MANY not ALL). Certainly a church displaying a nativity is appropriate. On a town square serviced with tax payer dollars? Probably not. I also don't wish people "Merry Christmas" unless I know them. For me to assume they celebrate Christmas would be way too presumptious for me. I am so blessed to have a plethora of individuals with different beliefs and celebrations all around me. I celebrate all of them with all of them! Except for my Jehovah's Witness friends that offer me random gifts at odd times as I do them.

Also want to add:

I have an extremely broad view of Jesus and who he was and what he means and what he represents and is represented by. Also, I recognize and respect that others have other views of him as well. I think if he was interpreted in a similar fashion by others, Christmas wouldn't be as controversial.

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Everyone has a right to and deserves to celebrate this season in whichever way they see fit. :

YES!
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:33 PM   #32  
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ArcticFrogs, Sunshine73, Thighs_Be_Gone, let's be friends <3

I hope everyone (even Gary ) has a wonderful WinterChristmaQuanzaHanukka, with their families, friends, or whomever it is they choose to love, or be loved by this season.

And I appreciate the mods for not shutting this down

Last edited by GradPhase; 12-02-2010 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 12-02-2010, 07:50 PM   #33  
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Originally Posted by Eskinomad View Post
ArcticFrogs, Sunshine73, Thighs_Be_Gone, let's be friends <3

I hope everyone (even Gary ) has a wonderful WinterChristmaQuanzaHanukka, with their families, friends, or whomever it is they choose to love, or be loved by this season.

And I appreciate the mods for not shutting this down
Absolutely. I wasn't meaning to pick a fight or anything, and tried to make that clear.

Whatever it is that makes you happy, I hope you have it in abundance this season.

(...and besides, there's Festivus for the rest of us! *grins*)
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Old 12-02-2010, 08:38 PM   #34  
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I like what sunshine had to say here:
"Wish me a Happy Hanukkah, a Happy Kwaanza, A Merry Winter Solistice, Happy Holidays or a Merry Christmas - to me it's all good because my faith is strong enough to be exposed to other ideas, thoughts, and religions (or lack thereof) without becoming shaken or otherwise invalidated. "

and everything input by Arcticfrog.

I just wish people didn't take themselves so seriously. There is room here for all of us to celebrate no matter what we believe in and people who think there aren't just don't understand the entire point of the season and I think that is sad.

And I say that knowing that the side I'm on is the one that whines and complains and is offended the most by public displays of christianity. We need to lighten up and accept the fact that there are way more of them than there are of us and they ARE in fact the majority. That doesn't mean that our voice should not be heard, just that we need to pick our battles and the battle of Christmas just doesn't seem that BIG to me in the grand scheme of things.

And a Happy WHATEVER to you all!
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Old 12-02-2010, 10:46 PM   #35  
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I really don't understand why it seems so many people get upset just hearing the words "Merry Christmas".....

When people wish "Merry Christmas" to someone it isn't to take away from any other holiday that may happen to fall in December.....

I am having a great time reading the posts here And I thank those of you that have given me a computer ....right back at'cha!

It has been my experience in life to realize that most people that celebrate Christmas are in fact, not Christians.....

The Santa Claus Christmas is what is celebrated...

I have to admit my family growing up celebrated the Santa Claus Christmas....

My family, wife and kids, celebrates both....the birth of Christ Christmas and the Santa Claus Christmas....

they are different but there is the overlap of "goodwill toward men"....

several years ago I was working with my cousins on the day after Christmas. One of them said to me "Well I wonder if all the atheists took yesterday off?"....to him, the atheists had no right to take the day off for Christmas....yet he felt he did....now this is a guy that has never stepped foot in a church....was always on my back for "giving" to my church with comments like "all churches want is your $$$"....

anyway....he has always celebrated Christmas....as has his father/mother...his kids.....

they all think pretty much the same thing.....they can celebrate it because they are not atheists....although they could not tell you anything about Christ other than Christmas is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus...

they probably even think that is the actual day

I really doubt that Jesus really cares who or how someone celebrates His birth...His love for us is much larger than that....

He isn't concerned about the day...He is concerned about the "forever" for us...

each and every single one of us....

even if you don't believe
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:37 AM   #36  
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(I just read the original post, I'm about to read the rest of the thread in a minute)

As a Wiccan/former Christian, I see the other perspective. And as a Wiccan in the middle of the bible belt who has been told that I am "evil" by people who don't really know what Wicca is, I can tell you the other side of things.

I used to live in Atlanta, where we have people from all around the world and people of all faiths living together. And now I live in the bible belt. In neither place have I ever seen the events as you've described them.

I've never stopped anyone from expressing their Christianity, from putting a nativity scene up, and I've never once told anyone they could not wish me a Merry Christmas. And yet-- I cannot freely display (I could in Atlanta, but not here) my own religion-- because in this area if you are not Christian (there is no one of any other faith here) and you display what you are, you are either beat up or run out of town.

I have no issue with Christianity. Its a wonderful religion. I do have issue with people trying to convert me back-- because I don't need saving. My religion is a wonderful religion and if people would learn about it from reliable sources, they'd see how wonderful it is. (EDIT: I do not try to convert anyone either)

And yes, as you mention, Yule is where the Christmas traditions come from. I wish that more people like you would remember that. HOWEVER-- that doesn't mean that I'm trying to take away Christmas.

I can't answer for anyone else, but as for me I think freedom to practice any religion you choose is a wonderful thing. And I'd love to have the freedoms you all do, without the threat of violence. I'd like to practice without people trying to convert me-- because I don't try to convert anyone.

ALL religion is a good thing. Practicing religion is a good thing. And people that don't have a religion-- that works for them and that is fine too.

There are eight Pagan religious holidays. Yule is one of them. Yule/winter solstice predates Christianity, and is where most of the Christmas traditions come from. And I'm not asking for Christmas to be removed from anywhere. I practice Yule in my own home with the people I love, and that is where is matters most-- with the people you love. Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Christmas, Yule, and Ramadaan are all celebrated in December, and we all celebrate them with LOVE-- and really, isn't that all that matters?

Last edited by Martina; 12-03-2010 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:47 AM   #37  
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I haven't read every post but these are my two cents.

I've never met anyone who is actually offended by the use of "Christmas" to denote Christmas. It's borderline stupid to refer to a church pageant as a "holiday pageant" when in fact it is a religious event. I'll bet this whole "controversy" was thought up by some cheeky secular agnostic type just to get right-wingers riled up over "The War On Christmas" and cause furors and frustration among the general population.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:03 AM   #38  
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i hope it wasn't thought up by a cheeky secular agnostic - my guess is that it was thought up by a bitter former christian.

and Gary- to a certain extent I do kinda agree that the non-christians should be given the choice to work or not. when i worked somewhere that was open on Christmas day I volunteered to work so that the people who it meant the most to could have that time off. it was the right thing to do. Even now in my job we are closed that day, but there are a lot of ppl that want the time off around the holidays to be with their families, go to church, whatever- I never ask for that time off. I don't need it and it won't bother me to work.
Now if everyone wanted the autumnal equinox off and I couldn't get it, i'd probably be peeved.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:12 AM   #39  
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Hmm yeah bitter former Christian is a better option.

As someone who is obsessed with "the season" but isn't Christian, I suppose I couldn't really care less. It does grind my gears hearing my mother, the same woman who said "NO!!!!" when I asked if God was real as a kid, complain and argue tooth and nail against the phrase "Happy Holidays." Way to be a hypocrite, mom!
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:42 AM   #40  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZMONEY View Post

several years ago I was working with my cousins on the day after Christmas. One of them said to me "Well I wonder if all the atheists took yesterday off?"....to him, the atheists had no right to take the day off for Christmas....yet he felt he did....now this is a guy that has never stepped foot in a church....was always on my back for "giving" to my church with comments like "all churches want is your $$$"....

anyway....he has always celebrated Christmas....as has his father/mother...his kids.....

they all think pretty much the same thing.....they can celebrate it because they are not atheists....although they could not tell you anything about Christ other than Christmas is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus...

they probably even think that is the actual day

I really doubt that Jesus really cares who or how someone celebrates His birth...His love for us is much larger than that....

He isn't concerned about the day...He is concerned about the "forever" for us...

each and every single one of us....

even if you don't believe

I love how as you're reading this, it goes from big long sentences with capitalization, from a man, to itty bitty sentence fragments without capitalization that reads as being a little bit meeker and sneakier. Gary - you're our very own Tiny Tim! Too cute


.......Maybe I just read it funny, though..
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:09 AM   #41  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eskinomad View Post
I love how as you're reading this, it goes from big long sentences with capitalization, from a man, to itty bitty sentence fragments without capitalization that reads as being a little bit meeker and sneakier. Gary - you're our very own Tiny Tim! Too cute


.......Maybe I just read it funny, though..
You outta see me w/o spell check! Angie used to "ride" me for my speech....double negatives....like I really know what those are! She gave up finally....I am a lost cause

Her and my daughter threaten to ban me from FB with the stuff I say

Stay warm kiddo
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:46 PM   #42  
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Great thread!
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:18 PM   #43  
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I love that we couldn't say Merry Christmas at my last job, that the Christmas party could only be called a holiday party even though we had a huge Christmas tree, and that at City Council (I work for a city in CA), a Rabbi was invited for Hanukkuh prayers, but they did away with the Reverends' blessings. Nice.

Crazy world we live in.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:30 AM   #44  
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Quote:
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I love that we couldn't say Merry Christmas at my last job, that the Christmas party could only be called a holiday party even though we had a huge Christmas tree, and that at City Council (I work for a city in CA), a Rabbi was invited for Hanukkuh prayers, but they did away with the Reverends' blessings. Nice.

Crazy world we live in.
So this party wasn't really a Christmas party, you just had a there.... makes sense it wouldn't be called a Christmas party.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:27 PM   #45  
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I was cleaning up my counter space earlier this afternoon and as I went to throw out my invitation to our company's annual Christmas party, held last night, I noticed it said....Holiday Dinner

It was, as always, in a very nice restaurant. Christmas carols and music was in the background, there was a Christmas tree with decorations in the lounge area of our celebration, Christmas cards were handed out with $$$ gift cards, gift wrapped presents were handed out. The women had on their Christmas outfits, I wore my Christmas tie with the three wise-men and star on it.... Everyone was wishing each other "Merry Christmas".....

a good time was had by all

I guess it really doesn't matter what we call it does it? As long as everyone has a good time

I am so happy PINT SIZED started this thread, we have had them every Christmas and it gives us all a chance to share our feelings.

I think people are adjusting to "Happy Holidays"....even our local parades are being asked by a select few to change from Christmas parade to Holiday parade....it may happen...it may not....doesn't matter really....

one thing is for sure....

Christmas isn't going anywhere!
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