I agree with you on this MARYEA but I believe it's more because of what WE have done to our food and not because it is from God's instructions to us.

People/Christians will be disagreeing with this issue until He comes again

ROSEBUD I had three 7th Day Adventists here for our bbq on the 4th of July week-end...my son in law is one. Anyway 2 were eating carnitas and carne asada when I teased them (2 go to one 7th day and 1 to another...although they admit not often enough)...saying "HEY! I thought you guys didn't eat meat"...knowing from many discussions with them in the past that it isn't a requirement in their church just a suggestion on their goals for healthy lives....

One of the young men has never eaten meat, both parents vegetarians...but said a lot of his 7th day friends do.

Anyway, my sil's mom is all vegetarian so he tries to hide his meat eating from her...and his beer too ...almost 30...I am sure she knows....

but the subject came up and all the guys said...oh! we would never take meat to a church potluck

We all got a laugh out of that.

Hey Ez Money,

Im a 7th day adventist and we bring food every weekend to church. In our church we service and then fellowship for the day. People bring Ox tail and stewed chicken and stewed fish and others bring tofu lasagna, we always have a mix of vegetarian and non vegetarian food and we even have vegans in our church as well. All adventists have a choice of what they eat, no one would bring pork, lobster, crab, shrimp stuff like that though. No one is looked down on for eating meat either. My husband and I still eat chicken, tuna, salmon. Adventist do live more active and healthier lives on a whole and I wish I had grown up adventist. I read an article recently stating those who follow the laws of the bible OT live on average 7 years longer. I thought it interesting. However, like everyone here I have filled my body with unhealthy foods, over eating, stress eating and just plain eating through my life. I am now just coming to the realization that the laws God put forth for us like the bible spans all time, He is the beginning and the end and knew all along what we would need. I guess I believe if he only wanted us to eat those foods for a short period of time till people cooked it better he would have said don't eat this food till you learned how to cook it longer. Or don't eat the pork till you feed it grains only and not by products of other animals and scraps. I didn't eat the pork even before becoming and adventist, one day I was at sick kids with my son and read an article there and it said pig farmers give their animals 75% more anitbiotics to keep them healthy then canada allows and 50% more growth hormone allowed and that is why our daughters are getting periods at 10 and we get sick and antibiotics don't work for us. That was enough for me even though I was down to just bacon then. lol Not to mention everytime I ate bacon my stomach would just cramp right up for hours afterwards.

I love this talk that is going on, really gives me some points of views and also questions I will be posing to my elders so I know why we do what we do. This is very stimulating. lol have a great day girls.

... again!


DH and I actually went to a church where the minister would preach for over an hour about "gluttony" and people being "fat" -- then they went right over to their tea table where only cookies, bars, and cakes were served up with coffee and sugar-laden kool-aide for the kiddies right after the service every single week (we don't go there anymore).

DH and I don't go to the potlucks for that very reason; but if I did, I would take a salad and veggie tray. I have never heard DH's church preach at people about this topic, but they do have lunches with sandwiches and squares, and other healthy dinners occasionally. His old church had a nice breakfast once a month and you can choose what to eat like eggs, meat (ya bacon and sausages), toast, coffee, etc and pass on the pancakes, but my DH eats them all becuz he's so skinny ...

It is truly hard to find a church that serves up healthy dishes; maybe a new trend will start if enough people push for it by bringing and serving healthier fare ... I hope so!!!

maybe my church is different, my husband was bringing sour candy to church and handing it out....and he was taken aside and told it was unhealthy and improper to bring that to church and the elder suggested veggie chips and dried fruit. This was brought about by a parent complaining on the unhealthy example it was setting. I will also say my church is different then most churches they run a chip program...which is cardiac health improvement program as well and is involved in all sorts of sports.

I really need to get to bed...early day tomorrow....but I really want to get back here and post!

Cool stuff we have going on!

I agree. Our head pastor eats and lives very healthy and he does put in little advice about eating healthy here and there but not much. I think he realizes it is a sensitive issue, but I do feel it would be helpful to have more (at our church). I don't mean being critical of fat people but in helping people see that gluttony is sin and like any sin there is forgiveness and deliverance in the Lord. I grew up in a family that did not even consider habitual overeating sin (gluttony) so there was a point in time when I had to recognize this.

The potlucks to me are ok but we as people need to learn how to eat in moderation and many have not learned that. It's just like when going to a family dinner or a restaurant...you have to think before you eat and obviously most of us don't too often. I Know I didn't for sure in the past and still sometimes don't. I have watched our pastor at potlucks, and while he does a lot of talking about how good the food looks etc, he spends most of his time walking around socializing and not eating. I think I can learn a lesson from him!

I also notice that the closer I draw to the Lord...the more time I spend feasting on His Word and praying, the less I eat.

I agree too If I could find a church like that, they could not keep me out of it. For I feel a church should not only be there for hard times but be there for you during struggles through your lives and weight gain is a big struggle. It causes so many members to have heart trouble and other illness and their bodies end up six foot under.

Hi Gals ~

Over the last few days I have been searching through the scriptures on food

I also found the following in my LCMS website ~

Man and Animals


Q. Up until the time of the flood, animals and humans seem to have an understanding between them. Meat was not eaten. However, after the flood, God put fear of man in to the animals' hearts and allowed meat to be eaten. God also set the rainbow in the sky as a sign that he would not send another flood. This sign was for both humans and animals. My questions are: Why after the flood and not after the fall, does God separate man and animal? Why the change in diet? And why place the fear of man in animals? I was also wondering why the Bible makes a point of saying that the rainbow is a sign for man and animals? That seems to imply that animals have a level of understanding that is beyond what we tend to think. If animals know about God, then how can we justify eating them?

A. In response to your first question, "Why after the flood and not after the fall, does God separate man and animal?" we can say this. Your question seems to presume ("separate man and animal") that there was a period when there was no "separation" between humans and animals. However one understands a term like "separation" as it is used in this connection, it should be remembered that at creation man, who alone was created in the image of God, was expressly given by God dominion "over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature than moves on the ground." While both are creatures of God, man and animals are clearly not on some kind of equal footing. For reasons that God has not revealed to us, man's diet prior to the flood was limited to "green plants." However, recalling for man the divine arrangement at creation, God tells Noah and his sons, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth" (cf. Gen. 1:28a) and "they [animals] are given into your hands" (9:2; cf. Gen. 1:28b). The Creator Himself expressly permits the eating of animals. The exercise of man's dominion now permitted by God to include the use of animals for food, Genesis tells us, drives fear into the creatures under man--and understandably so. We might add here that in general the Christian tradition has long held that animals may be killed and eaten for food in keeping with what is said in Genesis 9. That this is not a mere concession to the human race in its fallen condition, is the apparent assumption of Jesus and His apostles that animals may be eaten without sin. At the same time, we are to remember that animals are God's creation, that He provides for them (Matt. 6), and that they may serve as very fitting images for higher spiritual truths, most especially truths about how the Kingdom of God comes (Luke 15:3-7; John 10). They are not to be treated with cruelty, but received as God's good gifts over which He has placed us as stewards (Gen. 1:28)--which includes our use of them for food and for our enjoyment. It is possible that the wise saying in Proverbs 12:10 has some application in this connection: "A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast...."

In response to your question regarding the rainbow, we would say this. That God reveals His promise never again to destroy man and the earth (v. 13), which includes "all living creatures" as well, does not imply that some level of cognitive awareness exempts animals from the provision given by God in Gen. 9:1-3. The term "earth" in verse 13 would obviously include as well forms of life other than animals.

I also found the following scripture that I find helpful to me


Romans 14:14-22

14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food[a] is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.


1 Corinthians 8:8-13

8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

The Old Testament, where to begin ? In no particuler order. The Psalms, full of wonderful praise and comfort as well. Proverbs, a lot of sage advice. Isaiah, many wonderful prophcies that we can see fulfilled in the New Testament. Most Bibles will have footnotes showing references to other scriptures. As an example Matthew 1:23 see Isaiah 7:14. Just a few examples. Bible scholars spend years studying scripture, both Old Testament and New Testament.

Reading through the scriptures and a couple of study Bibles, to me, it seems quite clear that all food is clean.

The Old Testament shows us how food was used for spiritual, theological and health concerns.

I think God's Word shows us in the New Testament... it ain't about the food

I found several verses where His Word clearly tells us to knock it off! when issues about food cause us to be weak in faith

Our Pastor reminds us from time to time...All things in moderation.

I think we, as people, have shown wonderful ways to grow our food and provide benefits to all people...and we, as people, have shown how greed can damage our food....

I believe that common sense given to us by God sure does show us that we probably should not be eating like we do today.

Thanks for asking the questions you did BOOTSIE

I had to laugh a little bit about the potluck stories.

Many years ago, probably 28 or so, I was on the Good Neighbor Potluck committee. It is a potluck we have each year on the Wednesday before Maundy/Holy Thursday. We go out into the local neighborhood handing out flyers inviting folks to the potluck and Easter services. Anyway, my job was to call people from our church and remind them to come and bring a dish to share. Well I was a little concerned that there wasn't enough response to my requests...so...I asked my mom to make a few things like chili and lasagna that I could bring in addition to what my wife and I were bringing. Well my mom made my requests and also a nice big healthy salad.....guess what I brought ALL of back home

We still have those potlucks at my church. Over the years the food has become a little bit more healthy for sure But the pizza ~ the fried chicken ~ cheesy casseroles always go first

My personal feeling is there is a need for churches out there to stress healthy eating for those that desire that and churches for those that don't. I have seen here where a certain way of eating is important to some people, a way that when attending other churches they may feel uncomfortable.

I attend, and have for almost 30 years, a fairly large church. We have a lot of activities that include food that those on a diet would probably not eat

I, myself, have organized chili cook-offs where a lot of meat and beer was involved ~ pizza/bowling nights ~ men's group lasagna...cheeesy!

Our school lunches are probably 50/50 in quality....50% what the kids want and 50% what "some" parents want

When we have youth group activities or desserts after concerts and special services the food is generally mixed as far as healthy...again the less healthy the faster it goes!

Our pantry for the needy is mixed....I am guilty of bringing in those Chef BoyArdee canned meals because my $$ goes a long way when buying those....I also bring healthy soups and can veggies. The people coming in to pick the food up requests food that is not that healthy

Our Pastor preaches from the pulpit that God wants us to take care of ourselves from time to time but he has never told us what we should and should not eat. Common sense and education tells us that. Bigger fish to fry from the pulpit.

We don't talk much about the either at our church...he has no power over us as long as we are focused on Christ

So true here BOOTSIE ~ The church should be doing what we can to help people with their eating issues and other issues where we fail and fall into sin that takes us away from the lives God intends for us.

But I don't feel it should come from the pulpit...I do feel it should come from the church....

WE ARE THE CHURCH!

At my church we can have just about any Bible study or class or someone come from the community to talk to us....

but we have to do it...it is the job that we are supposed to do in the church.

If I wanted to have a healthy eating class...I could do it at my church. If I wanted to have a cooking class for healthy food I could do it at my church

If I wanted to have a Bible study at my church or a weight loss class or an exercise class....I could do it at my church!

Angie and I have organized walking groups in the past for example.

Here is what my wife did...she believes so much in her yoga that she went out and took over 250 hours of training....which has now grown to well over 500 hours...we spent a pretty good sum of $$$ for her to go to class and get her yoga training certificate....she has spent a tremendous amount of hours in home study for devotions to share before each yoga lesson....she devotes 3 hours every Thursday evening to our church teaching yoga as a ministry of health. She has 2 classes and it continues to grow....she has her own yoga room in our new gymnasium....everyone knows Angie's yoga room Of course she has to share if anyone else needs it...but Thursday eve. it is all hers

We have had weight loss studies in the past, none now that I know of.

BOOTSIE..it can be as easy as talking another person that desires the same as you...put it in the church bulletin...and meet to discuss it....you just never know what will or won't grow in a church unless you try

GARY ~ yes, you have very valid points there; I would like to see a nice mix of foods -- healthier fare for those who need and/or want it; and the popular dishes for those who want them. Most dishes can be made a bit healthier without people even noticing it, like using leaner meats and a bit less sugar and so forth.

I agree that some people still get caught up on the "sin" issue; when we are now covered by 'GRACE'. Does calling a weight issue the "sin of gluttony" make the fat go away any faster? NO! Does harping on that help me or anyone else lose weight? NO! Does focusing on the negative make a positive difference? NO!

If you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same results -- people have been harping on the "sin labeling" issue since time began; and it hasn't changed a thing. The law was given to make us aware that we are sinners; BUT IT ISN'T A CURE FOR THE SIN! Now "SIN" is just anything that falls short of the glory of GOD or His perfect goodness.

We know that weightloss issues are much more complicated than just identifying it as a "sin". There are just way too many contributing factors; one of which you referred to and that is the kinds of food we produce today for our people to eat. Some of it is healthy, and some is not.

The truth is that the healthy food doesn't taste as yummy as the "other" foods like you mentioned. Let's be honest -- people want food that tastes good. If we could make veggies taste like pizza or lasagna, maybe more people would eat them.

The grocery stores are now lined with junk aisles; when in the past that kind of food was reserved for the variety stores. Another issue is serving sizes as well -- people don't know what a serving is becuz they are served amounts that are huge or they self-serve. Many people have never been taught what a proper serving of food is, so it is no wonder they overeat.

I have seen children walking around with a 1/2 lb bag of chippies or nachos for a snack (more than they need for the whole days' calories). Why do parents and/or grandparents do this -- becuz it's cheap and quick and makes the kiddies happy.

Really, it has become a societal issue now. We as a society have to take responsibility for the health problems we have created. Our young people are being raised on food that will make them sick when they are older. We have gone crazy over ciggies, but still allow a much bigger threat to grow silently in the background.

The churches can play an important role by being part of the solution, not by condemning people. We can help them by loving them, teaching them, supporting them, and praying for them -- which is the churches' job anyways. We can be a guiding light and example instead of being part of the problem.

GARY's idea of starting a "support group" in the church is a very good one. We don't really need another bible study although the basics can help clear up some misconceptions as it has done in this thread (I hope).

What we need is prayer to ask for a healing of all the hurts and issues that are contributing to our overeating. I know for myself that this is/was "KEY" for me to lose weight and keep it off for 5 years now. I know that I am not at my goal yet, but I am still losing weight.

I have been praying and praising and singing and reciting scriptures to deal with those emotional issues that come up in my life that tempt me to eat when I am not hungry and don't need any more food. And, I need to pay attention to make sure that I am eating enuff too; sounds like a contradiction but it is not: if I don't eat enuff my body panics and sends signals to eat, eat, eat! For me, eating too much is not good, and eating too little isn't either -- I need balance (moderation is a good word).

Here are my personal issues -- 1) emotional upset from the past 2) hurt feelings 3) being embarrassed or made fun of 4) being criticized by others 5) feeling unloved & unappreciated & perceptions of same 6) feeling judged 7) boredom

I have been very transparent here -- but I think if we are honest, these are truly the things that we need addressed on top of the ones I mentioned earlier, which are related to "societal conditioning".

So what is the solution? We need healing -- so we need prayer first; then we need loving, being accepted, good teaching, help (like this site), and support by loving, caring people who have that special gift. To heal the boredom issue, I am now crocheting charity blankets; it keeps my hands busy; and I am giving to and serving others as I am healing.

Sorry, I'm starting to ramble/rant a bit... but I just wanted to share some of my heartfelt thoughts; hope you don't mind!