3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community

3 Fat Chicks on a Diet Weight Loss Community (https://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/)

- Does it Work? (https://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/does-work-11/)

- - Relacore (https://www.3fatchicks.com/forum/does-work/40708-relacore.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by biogeek

Mrs. Jim-
Is the agent in bitter orange that "promotes weight loss" an ephedra analogue of sorts? I thought it was - seemed like it would be banned for use in herbal substances along with Mao Hung and all the rest, but the laws seem to be slow catching up with the scams. Where are you finding the ingredients list? Just through general searches? I love debunking - it's a hobby :devil: Any recommended sites would be greatly appreciated :)

Yah, just doing general searches. A lot of these pill pushers will put the ingredients in their website, but hide them so it's kind of like trying to find Gilligan's Island in the middle of the Pacific or something. :lol:

I usually use www.supplementwatch.com and www.quackwatch.org to research the ingredients. (BTW at Quackwatch you can read up on why it takes so long for laws to be passed against these supps - basically dates back to the Supplement Act passed in 1994 which tied the hands of the FDA.)

The April 19th issue of Forbes Magazine had an article on the whole diet pill controversy that you might find of interest. As far as bitter orange goes, let me quote what the article said on that:

Quote:

Bitter orange has become the next big diet thing. Like many of his peers, Chinery has been hawking an ephedra-free replacement, Xenadrine EFX, which includes citrus aurantium, or bitter orange. Citrus aurantium contains synephrine, which, like ephedrine and amphetamine, is a stimulant that mimics adrenaline. Its fans say that synephrine, like ephedra, can, in combination with caffeine, suppress appetite and boost metabolism so the body burns its own fat.

But adrenaline-like compounds that boost metabolism have a habit of also boosting blood pressure and heart rate. "They are adjusting synephrine to the same pharmacological potency so that it will have the same cardiovascular and neurological effects of ephedrine," says Arthur Grollman, professor of medicine and pharmacology at the State University of New York, Stony Brook. "Without waiting another nine years for people to die, we can predict with great assurance what the toxic effects will be." Chinery's new product also throws in hordenine, a stimulant banned by horse racing organizations that deem it a prohibited substance; Cytodyne claims the 2 milligrams of hordenine in each Xenadrine EFX pill is pharmacologically inactive. In February, New York Democratic Senator Charles Schumer called bitter orange ephedra's "kissing cousin" and asked the FDA to ban it, too.

Not likely anytime soon. Since dietary supplement makers don't have to prove safety, Congress has relied on public studies for facts. In 2002 the National Institutes of Health funded 569 grants worth $171 million for such research. But Paul Coates, director of the NIH's office of dietary supplements, says his budget is too slim to settle unanswered questions about components in these products. Few researchers are using NIH funds to study bitter orange. One of them is Christine Haller, an assistant professor at the University of California, San Francisco, and a veteran of the ephedra wars. But she is just starting.

The bitter-orange hype machine is running far ahead of credible research. Recent ads for Xenadrine EFX in fitness magazines blare that it has been "clinically tested" to outperform ephedra-based products in "boosting of metabolism and resulting caloric expenditure." On what is this based? The first claim comes from an abstract of a study submitted to a conference called "Interaction of Physical Activity and Nutrition" in 2002. The abstract details a study of 10 healthy adults-puny compared with a Sanofi-Synthelabo weight loss study with 6,600 subjects. The 10 took servings of Xenadrine EFXand reported that it enhanced metabolism and caused no untoward events. The study was never published in any recognized, peer-reviewed medical journal. The second claim cites another abstract, summarizing a study of six people, published in the Journal of American College of Nutrition in October 2002, which insists Xenadrine EFX did not cause heart rate change but increased metabolism. It ends by saying, "future studies should examine the effects of this dietary supplement over the longer term on body weight." More than 18 months later the paper on which the abstract rests has not been reviewed by peers or published in a recognized medical journal.

My husband is a big believer in Vitamin C and takes 500 mg each morning (with a small glass of OJ). However, I just buy the Safeway generic at around $4.00 for a bottle of 250 caps (I think that was the price - I buy it on sale). ;)

I agree with JaEll on the megavitamin thing - the truth lies somewhere in between. I don't think megadoses are of any real benefit, but I'm not entirely sure that the FDA recommendations are completely accurate either, since there is so much variation in lifestyle, absorption abilities, and even cellular respose between individuals. They make a good average bookmark, though, and I'm sure they're pretty darn close to what the average person needs. Still not a fan of megadoses, particularly those of the fat soluble vitamins (A in particular) that are prescribed by "naturopaths" - I've seen what havoc those can wreck on a body. I'll admit I'm a bit overpassionate about herbal remedies and what they tout; when I was in college I had a patient who's quality of life was ruined by "naturopaths". On that note though, I see nothing wrong with extra Vitamin C, in fact my multi has about 120% not to mention what I get through my food. I think most of it goes down the tube, but some extra may be of benefit. It may help, and it won't really hurt with the exception of a little diarrhea if you take too much, so there's no harm in it. But I'm with Mrs. Jim, take the $4.00 one, LOL.

Thanks Mrs. Jim for the sites. I'm already an avid quackwatch fan, but I'll check the other one out. What is up with the bitter orange thing? It's not ephedrine but it's an analogue that has the same chemical and biochemical properties - if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's a damn duck!

Since dietary supplement makers don't have to prove safety, Congress has relied on public studies for facts.

Why is this even policy? Since when is it up to the scientific community in general to prove that something is NOT effective or NOT safe?! It's not up to the scientific community to prove negatives, it's up to manufacturers etc. to prove safety and efficacy and us to review and replicate to determine accuracy. When will people understand this? It all boils down to education, something no one can ever get enough of but most people don't have at all - ugh, I have to go to a political debate board now, I'm fired up :)

Ya know...*I* don't take the Vitamin C - Jim does (I just take the generic Safeway womens' multi). I personally think that the 'wellness effects' he feels are mostly up in the ol' noggin if you know what I mean... :lol: He's got allergies and takes Zyrtec so I think that might be what helps - dang, I hope so, because the copay on that just went up to $70 for a three month supply. Eeek!

As far as proving safety and all that - that's exactly what the Supplement Act in 1994 has caused. The supp manufacturers can make what they want, say what they want...and the gov't can't do a thing about it, because supplements are considered food products. Go figure. (there's a whole article at Quackwatch about that BTW).

I personally think that the 'wellness effects' he feels are mostly up in the ol' noggin if you know what I mean..

It's amazing what the mind can do, LOL. If we were less ethical people, we could make millions off of sugar pills just by making wellness claims - someone out there would swear by them! :lol:

I want to thank Viv for starting this thread because there's a lot of useful information here and thanks to Biogeek and Mrs. Jim for all the useful research! I came to this thread today because I was in Walmart today and happened to see Relacore (I never saw it before, just the commercial). It was going for $27.99, I believe. I didn't really look at it because I didn't have the time. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.

I'm glad you asked about relacore. I just joined this forum to find out more about it. I must admit, it was very tempting for me to try it since I am growing into an "apple" shape! I'm frustrated because I haven't changed my eating habits or anything but have put on 12 lbs over the past year...I have been losing and gaining the same 2-3 lbs for months!

I do agree with mrs jim this time on one area, that these blends are all the same thing. Each has there own name and it's the exact same thing about 75 to 8- percent of the time. Oh, mines more special then yours is. :rolleyes: I haven't tried it but go for it if u like. I have heard of a supp. that's been out for a while on the market but is costly that uses sepherine (think I spelled it right), that works like epherdrine and new research shows it is safer than it's ephedrine friend.

After an accident when I was going through physical therapy I put on weight and I wasn't small to begin with. Due to not being able to do any exercise at first I wanted a quick fix to stop the gain.
I tried Relacore and all it did for me was ease my stress and make me calmer and I slept better. I took a vegetarian cooking class that turned out to be more of a nutrition class and one of the things I learned was that the B vitamins are the "happy" vitamins. I got the same results from taking regular b vitamins and taking valerian for a sleep aid. I also tried Corti-Slim which did nothing at all and Trim-spa which made me sick on the stomach.
Exercise, water and portion control are working for me and I am losing inches not pounds at this point (after an initial 9 lb loss) so I know I am building muscle with the exercise and eating. The exercise is also helping the damage to my knee. Our property is hilly and hard for me to walk. Yesterday I went with hubby and our dogs. I made it up one rather steep hill with out feeling like I was going to pass out and my knee was not screaming that it was finished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsJim

My hubby is a firm believer in both Vitamin C and garlic (takes the odorless kind). He hasn't been sick for years other than an occasional attack of the gout.

I think garlic is healthy, too, but without the odor, it just isn't the same to me ... LOVE to cook with fresh garlic and also roast it as a spread. Garlic is good for dogs, too. Keeps fleas and ticks away ...