While sipping my diet coke I found this! OMG!
 

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There's an awful lot of quacking in that article--this fella is using science to promote his business.

Here's a more reputable version of the same thing: (artificial sweeteners linked to obesity and changes in the gut microbiome.)

Not a fan of artificial sweeteners. Personally, I think we're better off without them. Most sugars will alter the gut flora, plus it's a big stretch to link AS to autoimmune diseases in general.

The articles bring up a good point regarding the possibility that AS might limit effectiveness of some medications....some, but definitely not all.

The reality is that our "food" has an awful lot of artificial stuff in it, and the list of stuff is getting longer and longer.

Put down the diet coke, FF!

I am putting down the coke , just in case. I honed in on the Hashimotos in the article that said someone was cured when they stopped the sweetners, since my antibodies were up on the lab work. Since you mention all the non food items in our food these days, or things that are questionable, I am trying to get off all that stuff so I can find out what is exciting the thyroid antibodies. The quest is on, the coke is gone. I will miss it, along with the other stuff, but I want to be healthy. thanks for the input SMF. .

Good luck with that! I know it's tough--old habits die hard. But, you're right: It looks like endocrinologists are suggesting that Hashimoto's patients lay off the sugar substitutes, especially aspartame. Here's one article I found. The arthritis foundation website suggests the same for inflammatory arthritis, but their website is getting too pop culture for me to value it much.

There are lots of different sugars used in our foods, toothpaste, mouthwash, etc. Here's a list I found from the Mayo clinic. A varied diet is important. Lots of "natural" things are not meant to be consumed in large quantities. That Splenda makes me nervous because it's so stable....and stevia is natural, but looks like a scary molecule to me.

Giving up artificial sweeteners won't help everyone. Won't help me with autoimmune disorders, because I never consumed them in the first place. That genetics component is too strong. :(

...hope it works for you...

SMF I have some Aunts in my family that have had thyroid problems and I'm sure they didn't do any artificial sweetners. Back in the day, it was just the real stuff.

What is interesting to me is that they never tested me for the autoimmune type of Hypothyroid from the beginning. Granted they treat you the same way no matter which type you have, but I just now found out it was Hashi. So I'm looking all over to see if what I eat could make this better. My doctor told me to look for the triggers. She is against the artificial sweetners, but I've been finding out a lot of info that certain ways to eat help, but you are on the quest to see what works for you. A lot of trouble shooting. This one diet is called AIP. Autoimmune Paleo. It's suppose to help all autoimmune problems and people are testifying to good results. I'm on day one. I have been thinking about taking the plunge for a while. So I'm jumping into it. I've gone through the grieving of all my favorite foods. They don't get to be in my list of choices until after they are reintroduced. Some say I should never have certain foods again, but I'm in denial about it. Well thanks for the encouragement. Soda is just one on the big list of NO Nos for now. It may never be reintroduced. I've really loved Coke.

Eventually, you won't miss it (the soda). There have been times when I made pepsi (regular, not diet) a lunchtime and snacktime habit....in my skinny, young days, of course. Some of these habits became pretty ingrained, but with some resolve, I found I could quit altogether. I haven't had a soda in years and years, except maybe when traveling or other situations where I was hesitant to drink the water. I walk by soda machines at work several times a day now, and never even notice them. Ever watch Mad Men? I think about Don Draper's comments on cigarettes...it's all about the ritual...the walk to the machine (that gets you away from your desk for a few minutes)...the feel of the cool bottle in your hands....the bubbles...the satisfying burps :o...

Me, I'm working to give up coffee...:fr: That's gonna be a difficult morning ritual to give up.....and not sure I'm resolved to do it yet.

As I chat with you I'm drinking a cup of Rooibos Tea. Not bad, with no artificial sweeteners. I was hesitant to take this plunge into all these changes at once, but what the heck. So Yesterday I had a headache and took some aspirin. This Rooibos it a good tea.

Howzit goin? Your post inspired me to follow up on my intentions to give up coffee :yikes:, and I've done it! I never thought of myself as a coffee "addict", but the RA leaves me so tired, and I've come to depend on my morning cup, or two, or three :o. I wisely chose Monday morning as the day to stop :dizzy:, and Boy Howdy was Monday difficult! Tue and Wed--chirping like a bird! Wow! What a difference! I have been tired and struggling to get through the day for so long--this is a remarkable change for me. I'm even having Hope (gasp) that I might lose this weight!

I substituted with green tea, because that was in the house, but will pick up some rooibos and try it....I don't think that I will have the same relationship with tea as I did with coffee...first love and all...

Oh Cool SMF!

Having a buddy in the trenches is nice. :) The Rooibos is caffeine free and it is the best a person could get to compare with coffee. IMHO. It looks like it in the cup. Has a rich and mild flavor which actually taste ok by its self. I have been drinking water with a drop of peppermint oil for the head and body aches. Yes, I've actually been getting full body aches with this withdrawal! Man what an addict I was!:o

Ha! Yes, it is nice to have support! Interesting that our "withdrawal" symptoms are the opposite of what one might expect. Shouldn't drinking the artificial sweetener chemicals make one feel crummy, NOT crummy after giving them up? Shouldn't giving up coffee make me feel tired, and not energetic? Weird.

Not having coffee has made such a difference in my mood, sleep, energy, and RA symptoms. I'm on methotrexate for the RA, and it gives me such hot flashes (!). Not as severe as menopausal hot flashes, but just unrelenting and annoying periods of feeling smothered and too hot--several times every hour. Today, I had only one noticeable one after exercise. Woo and Hoo.

Reading this thread has been interesting. I have been drinking diet soda since it came out, back in the 60s. I didn't start having my medical problem until the 90s when my weight gain began, so I feel that my problems are from my weight, not from the diet soda. I also drink coffee, a couple cups in the morning. At one time, several years ago I gave them both up. The loss of caffeine didn't bother me because I can easily drink decaf without a problem. I just never went out of my way to make a separate pot of decaf when DH's pot of high octane is sitting here. I did not notice any different in my health or how I felt without the coffee or diet soda. The only difference it made was I could say I was "caffeine free." Gradually I have gone back to both, after a year or so with no obvious effect. I will admit that it's probably healthier to say away from both of them, but at my age, I feel I am so close to "the end" that I might as well not stop now. But I do commend those of you who have found improvements in your health by giving them up.

WoW SMF that is Awesome!

I'm mainly passed the withdrawals today and feeling serene. Having to quit the coke and coffee all at once with starting this WOE actually helped, because I think I cared more about the coffee than the food changes. Except one little spell of totally wanting gluten in any form, but that past because I ate a couple of oranges.

WannaBe I have the same basic history as you with Coke and Coffee. Loved it for years, but if giving it up helps my health,,,,well I'm giving it a try. I understand if your don't see a difference though. Cause I wouldn't have quit it otherwise.....

Well golly, Carol Sue, you come here just to tell us you're not joining in? Well then, run along, you Coffee Drinker, you! Hey, if I stick with this, I'll have a new insult to throw around! (Not that I had any old insults.)

I never noticed much difference between coffee/no coffee either---least not before these RA symptoms and treatments. Inflammation changes things.

I had to go back and read what I wrote yesterday, 'cause I started mourning the loss of the ol' coffee cup after work today. AFTER work! In 100F heat! Feeling grumpy on accounta the fat. Guess my unusually high high is going down.

FF--you're giving up coffee too? I thought you were just concerned about the AS?

OH Feet, I am giving up anything caffeine, soda and tons of other stuff with this Autoimmune Protocol. The thing is finding out what causes the inflammation. So some stuff can come back into the diet after a while as long as it's not a trigger.

Carol Sue, I'm jealous of you,,,you coffee drinker!

Yes, I just finished my second cup of the morning. Probably done with coffee for the day. DH drinks it round the clock.

I have some autoimmune issues that could possibly be helped with cutting out these things, but since I didn't notice any different when I went without for a while, I figured I should indulge, and enjoy what's left of my life. I have made so many healthy dietary changes and I do see noticeable results with them. I have cut processed food, and junk food, and added tons of produce to my diet. These changes are keepers and have become permanent changes in my life. DH will not change his junk food diet one iota. He never had a weight problem and enjoys his sweets, salty snacks, ice cream, etc. He said he wants to enjoy his food and will accept the loss of 3 or so years of life as a result. His body, his choice. Who am I to say he's wrong?

I commend you all for making changes that are affecting your life in a positive way.

Now I will run along and maybe have another cup of joe. LOL

So true about the sodas. I used to (gasp) actually drink two or three of the "mega gulps" -- or whatever they are called -- the giant Diet Cokes from 7-11, etc. Then I did research on artificial sweeteners and gave it all up... since then have gradually progressed to eating almost all organic, natural foods, very few processed foods, avoiding chemicals, GMOs etc. and my health has improved dramatically. Once you get all that stuff out of your system, you really don't miss it. Fresh, healthful natural organic food actually tastes so much better when you get used to it. This eating style... along with working out... has also helped me to maintain my weight for 3 years. First time in my life I have not gained it all back. I am back now trying to lose some more but at least it did not skyrocket again as it always has in the past.

Fortunately I did not need to give up coffee but I did have to switch to decaf for my blood pressure, but I can handle that ha ha. And I use French Vanilla Nutpods (yum!) for creamer.

I have had people tell me similar things to what your husband says... they are okay with dying earlier rather than give up red meat, caffeine, etc. -- but my response is always "Yes, but I don't want to mess myself up really bad and LIVE." But as you said, we all have to make our own choices and we certainly can't force anyone.

I have actually been made fun of because I have gone so much organic, fresh produce, etc -- avoid processed foods, fake sugar, chemicals, GMOs, etc. I love Michael Pollan's books and YouTube videos on nutrition.

Recently my doctor did a complete nutritional analysis... eight tubes of blood, yikes, ha ... extremely detailed. When the PA called with the results she was excited to tell me "Absolutely fantastic... we are so proud of you." Hearing that makes all the hard work of eating right and working out so worth it. A few years ago I was using two canes and/or a walker and could barely walk across our parking lot... now I am hiking in the mountains!

To me it is so worth it

Well if I could have just had a couple cups a day, I most likely wouldn't have felt the need to quit altogether, although this WOE does call for elimination of coffee to begin with then reintroduce if you don't notice any ill effects a couple cup is ok. My big issue is usually moderation. So anyway, enjoy your Jo and I'd love to have a cup with you later, when I get a grip on this! ;);)

OMG Misty! Thanks for weighing in to this. You have soooooo encouraged me. This is not easy all of a sudden eating only non processed foods and mostly organic (can't afford all organic) and only drinking water and herbal tea. It's a completely different world from what I used to do. Especially still missing diet coke.

That said, I'm on day 9 no coffee and I am mostly passed withdrawals. So I'm on the road. Green beans fresh are amazing especially cooked with bacon!

Woo Hoo FF! You're 2 days ahead of me....7 days without coffee for me...feeling great without it. True confession: on Sunday, I had every intent on sipping some of DH's coffee, but the annoyance at him scrolling on his phone was greater than the desire to cheat....I just got up and left the kitchen...NSV!

Yesterday, I read that coffee is full of antioxidants, but is there another way to get those same antioxidants? Probably. My DH drinks coffee all day. I don't know how he can do it and still sleep. His mother sent him off to school every morning with coffee and donuts. He shows no ill effects from it that I can see, at 73. When he still smoked, he would get up in the middle of the night and have coffee and a cigarette then go back to bed. I rarely have any coffee after 10 AM.

The diet soda is a different story. I agree that it's probably bad, but I continue to drink it. Just not as much. I wish that was the only bad habit I had. LOL

Misti, those people who make fun of you for your healthy eating are probably trying to convince themselves that they are OK with what they eat. The proof is in the amazing changes you have made in your lifestyle!! You are setting a good example for others.

Congratulations to those of you who are breaking bad habits!

How's it going, FF?

Last week, I did a little experiment with coffee. Had 2 cups with breakfast on Tuesday. Tuesday was fine. Wednesday OK. But on Thursday, I returned to a black mood with feelings of hopeless, despair, anger and irritation. At everything. So I tend to think that coffee is contributing to these moods that I've been struggling to shake, and I will continue with avoiding it. This is a 180d turn, as I have long used coffee to help elevate my mood and wake me up, and took affirmation in those reports that indicated coffee might help alleviate depression, etc. But now, I see some doubts in these studies, with many folks suggesting that morning coffee simply alleviates the negative effects of caffeine withdrawal...hair of the dog that bit you, and all...

I know there are many variables in my life, but I'm convinced I should stay away from coffee. It'll help a little bit with weight loss, too, as I don't like it without cream....it's getting easier and easier to avoid it...like a breakup, I'll soon forget I ever had Coffee in my life...Why did I ever see in him anyway?

Hope your breakup with aspartame is going well, FF.

Hi Feet,
Well it's funny I just got done with a little coffee experiment myself. This week-end with the granddaughter needed a boost. I had not sleeped well the night before so I just caved and had some coffee. Yep it helped a lot. So today I had some with DH. But I decided today to not re-introduce coffee as a regular in my life anymore. Just if I need it or want it, but not the way it was in my life. It was life revolved around coffee,,,,,it seemed. My husband cut back from 3 pots to just one. So it's had a good impact on our lives, because I do believe it affects the adrenals, which affect other hormones. And I'm no longer an addict, so why go back?

As far as Artificial sweetners, they are gone for good. Now I've been feeling really better and better, but my WOE is most likely contributing to that as well as getting rid of sweetners. Many changes, and I'm not sure yet which one is my trigger for all my bad symptoms. I'm getting energy, for one positive change. I've given up dairy, eggs, nuts, except brazil nuts for the selenium and night shades and all grains. So any one of them may be contributors. I'm hoping to successfully be able to re-introduce them. I hear night shades is a big contributor of immune problems so they may not be re-introduced.

Thanks for checkin and hoping the best for us both on our quest for health and skinniness!

True confessions...just asked Mr. SeeMyFeet to prepare a 2nd cup of coffee for me today. Probably not the best day to experiment with coffee...at the end of my weekly med...we'll see how it affects my mood in the next few days. I just cannot deal with the exhaustion I've been feeling. Actually took a nap yesterday--an unplanned nap--just happened after I sat down to chat with DS. From my days logging calories & nutrients on MFP, I know I do not get enough salt and potassium (I know, right?), and I'm wondering if that is contributing to exhaustion, so I've decided to pick up some coconut water.

Brazil nuts? yuck! They always taste moldy to me. Careful you don't eat too many--they can have a Lot of Se. Sorry, I don't buy the connection between nightshades and autoimmune disorders at all....no way I'm giving up my tomatoes! Nightshades have lots of good nutrition for eye health, which I desperately need.

OK, I'm going to try REALLY hard to avoid a 3rd cup of coffee....coffee may have some good stuff in it, but I have to get a better handle on my moods/energy ....always a struggle with AI disorders.

Hello everyone

You are all such an encouragement to me... thanks!!

Finally I am so proud of you for making the big switch to a healthier lifestyle. :congrat: Yes, it is hard at first but after a while you will feel so much better, and find that healthful foods actually TASTE much better, that you will find it easier and easier to do away with the bad foods.

[b]Feet[/] At first I was going to quit coffee but then decided to just make the switch to decaf instead. I do not care about the caffeine but it is impossible to find good flavored organic decaf; so I ended up buying extracts, and splurged on some pure vanilla powder, to put into it. I also use organic French Vanilla Nutpods for creamer. I am just making some coffee ice cubes for my iced coffee. It would help my weight loss if I gave it up, too, but this is just one of the things I have decided I am willing to include in my eating.

Wannabe thanks for the kind words. And people are no longer thinking I am just being too picky since the difference in me is amazing.... I had a lot of health issues and my complexion was becoming “pasty.” Now I keep getting compliments on healthy I look, including from my doctor. Plus I have fought my way back from having been barely able to walk to getting tons better and even took some hikes on the mountain trails. Okay, so I still have to use trekking poles and am a LOT slower than I used to be but at least I am out there. As for the diet soda, don't put yourself down for it since you are making so many other positive changes! We all have to make the choices we can live with, and just keep making progress! :cheer2:

And what are nightshades?

Everyone enjoy your weekend. I am off to try to sleep this afternoon since my Life Group is staying up all night to guard the church youth group's fireworks stand. LOL sit in the church parking lot all night and play games; then our leaders will cook breakfast for all of us on their outdoor grill which they are bringing. We did it last year and had a lot of fun but the night does get long. :rofl:

:dance:

Hi everyone and hope y'all had a great 4th. I just got back from a family reunion and have a big update for you.

First of all, I went back to coffee, doing ok with that! I didn't eat completely on plan and just went to an atkins kind of diet and allowed some cheese, eggs, drinks, but only ate carbs like grains the very last day. I did not go into a carb coma, I did not lose energy, I felt good. I ate other nuts like pistachio and did fine. I ran out of brazil nuts and now that I'm home I'm back to the 3 a day. Feet the selenium in the nuts is for my thyroid,,,I don't eat too many. only some times.

Well now I'm going back to the AIP protocol but I'm so glad I just know this is helping me overall. What I really stuck to was No artificial sweetners and no nightshades. One of those is my main culprit or possible both. I plan to keep my coffee to a minimum and if I start going overboard again, it is gone. So that's the update. So happy to have energy, that is my main symptom besides hot flashes and that would interrupt my sleep all night. So sleeping much better......

Hey, FF...just checking in myself...True Confession....the coffee has creeped back in to my life again as well. Perhaps not as frequently, though. No ill effects, and still feeling better than I was. That's the way of auto-immune disorders...the severity waxes and wanes, and it's difficult to make correlations. Which is why most folks think there is no connection between diet and most autoimmune diseases...but when you have one....you'll experiment with yourself in hopes of feeling better.

You know the nightshades thing is a myth? No way I'd give up tomatoes! (except maybe to lose weight...even then...) Think I'll go eat worms....

Feet! Not Worms! Yuk!

Well as far as night shades being a myth, have you ever tried to just totally give them up for (let's say a month) and if there is not improvement go back to them....Just as a personal trail?

I really think this is helping me, ALOT....or it's the sweetners..... I'm not wanting to go back to the sweetners at all, I've had people in the medical field tell me they aren't good for you. but as far as the nightshades go, yes they are healthy for most people, but there has been a lot of people who can't have them in their diet. I read the science behind it, but don't have it memorized in order to tell you about it, but they have some ingredient in them that affects people with autoimmune problems.....

Misti, I don't think anyone answered your question about nightshades. There is a group of vegetables and fruits referred to as nightshades. They include tomatoes, white potatoes, peppers, tomatillos, eggplant and goia berries. I have psoriasis and I have heard that nightshades are bad for psoriasis, but the only one I eat at all is tomatoes, and it's a once in a while thing for me, not everyday. If you google, you will get a lot of information on them.

My brother-in-law once told me he is "allergic to tomatoes." I asked him what his allergy is and he said he gets a rash on his legs when he eats them. So I would think that he is sensitive to nightshades.

The tannin in coffee and tea is also said to be bad for psoriasis, but I gave both up for a while once and saw no improvement.

At this point, I feel that the coffee is doing me no harm at 2 cups per day. With the diet coke, it's probably doing harm, but after 50 years of drinking it, there's probably no way of reversing the damage. It's very possible that it has contributed to some of the health issues I've had. I have cut back, but don't see it going away altogether.

FF, allergies and auto-immune disorders are not the same, although folks can have both. Because we eat the flesh, embryos, and oocytes of completely different species, anything we ingest has the potential to mount an allergic response. (Cannibalism is one way around that, but it has its own set of major health issues...)

Re the "nighshades", here's the classification for tomatoes from a USDA site:
Kingdom Plantae – Plants
Subkingdom Tracheobionta – Vascular plants
Superdivision Spermatophyta – Seed plants
Division Magnoliophyta – Flowering plants
Class Magnoliopsida – Dicotyledons
Subclass Asteridae
Order Solanales
Family Solanaceae – Potato family
Genus Solanum L. – nightshade P
Species Solanum lycopersicum L. – garden tomato P

The order Solanales encompasses "nightshades" which includes belladonna, also the vegetables Carol mentioned, and tobacco. Belladonna has a large concentration of toxic alkaloids, and when tomatoes, eggplants, and potatoes were introduced into the "western" diet, folks were afraid to eat them because these plants were in the same family. The foods do have alkaloids, but the concentrations are very low. Green or sprouted potatoes and other parts of the tomato plant have higher concentrations, which is why you're not s'posed to eat them.

Tomatoes, eggplants, etc have other valuable nutrients that make them worth eating. The internet throws around this nightshade/autoimmune connection a lot, especially for rheumatoid arthritis, but even the worst of those internet articles won't commit to stating this as an absolute and they do not cite any references. In fact, RA has been around since the beginning of recorded time in many cultures, long before tomatoes, potatoes, or eggplants were introduced. Also, there are lots of different kinds of alkaloids, even in one tomato. Nightshades are not the only plants that produce alkaloids....coffee does too...apple seeds have arsenic, lettuce has LSD....there are small amounts of toxins in everything we eat. Solanine is the nightshade alkaloid that is most often connected with AI, but some experiments have demonstrated it to be ANTI-inflammatory in some situations, even anti-viral and anti-cancer....but even these experiments used concentrations higher that those in our diet. (Solanine is also found in non-nightshades, like blueberries, apples, cherries.)

If you have an allergy to tomatoes, your immune system is recognizing a foreign molecule made by the tomatoes. Interestingly, if you're allergic to tomatoes and other fruits, you might also be allergic to latex--but you're most likely responding to a plant protein, and not the alkaloid molecule.

....(Ghostbuster's music)...I ain't 'fraid a no nightshades...

I do these little dietary experiments because my RA and the associated medications make me feel like crap. I do think there is some merit to the rheumatoid arthritis/bacteria correlation, and any dietary change that can help alter gut flora and help me lose pro-inflammatory fat is a change I'll consider.

Thank you Carol and Feet,
You both had great info. I didn't realize about the tannen Carol. Feet you filled in all the gaps. So I don't think I'm gonna get you to back off the nightshades, and I'm not gonna eat any worms, or other people....LOL!

So I'm trying to get back into my Woe and I am thinking my gut is on the mend with the 16/8 IF and my elimination diet. Vacation took it's toll, but not as bad as usual. I actually crammed a bunch of carbs in my mouth on the last day, and felt ok the next. But bread is still out for me now. But I've reintroduced eggs, a little cheese, nuts and still no nightshades or artificial sweetners. I have heard cooked nightshades have less of the effect on people allergic to them, but I have a suspicion this is the bad food for me.

I do miss Pizza!:tantrum::tantrum::tantrum:

My conclusion!

I gave up artificial sweetners and have been feeling great! The only other thing I gave up is night shades. so possible one or both of those things were affecting me. Maybe autoimmune symptoms are helped by giving these things up,,,one or both. It's worth a try....

History,,,,I've been a diet coke drinker since it came out.

I do not have coke for the same reason.