Thanks mainecyn
Yesterday got really tough. I kept doling out leftovers from my dinner, then putting it back in its container and in the fridge, taking it out again, piling some into a bowl, and putting it back... I wound up winning! Of course, I had spoonfuls of food while doing that, and two bananas, but fruit is always good and I didn't let things get out of control.
I just keep reminding myself of how good it will feel to be successful.

Day 2 is going well. I had a good breakfast, am going into town later today with friends, so that will distract me for a few hours, and I should have homework to do tonight to keep me busy.

Got invited to a wine and cheese party tomorrow evening. =P Aagh! Couldn't say no.
I can be good. A few nibbles of cheese and maybe treat myself to two glasses.

I just spent an hour writing a post to a different thread about binge eating. A member posted something about her own personal views towards what she described as binge eating. I wrote over and over, poured my heart out, and in the very end I couldn't hit the post button. She relates binge eating to a habit in her case and a few other things that caused others to post and disagree with her opinion. She also mentioned that binge eating is due to restricting food or dieting and that you don't see skinny people suffering from it (binging). I totally didn't agree with what she said.

I know things are different for everyone, but I believe she was over generalizing binge eating, which has multiple causes and symptoms. I wanted to ask her just what were her "binge" experiences, how long did she "have it", what were the amounts of binge foods, etc. For me personally I feel the term binge eating is thrown around to often and used to describe those that may occasionally sit at the tv and eat a container of Oreos and pint of ben and jerry's once in a while.

The true disorder encompasses so many different mental and physical issues that her explanation just doesn't mesh with me. I wanted to tell her so many things, or post my own thoughts, but couldn't after 3 attempts. I suffer from this eating disorder every single day. I have normal willpower and emotions, but then there is another side of me, when I have an episode and binge it is totally different. I wondered, but didn't ask, if she suffered from the binge eating cycle with all the emotional issues that come with it, and the hiding of food etc. It just didn't seem like she did. Who am I to judge? Maybe she just has found the magic answer and suddenly is cured, but it seems so unlikely to me as this eating disorder has been with me my entire life.

The idea that someone can just suddenly decide they are no longer a binge eater and figure out the one problem? It has so many multiple problems it just doesn't seem possible. For me my binge eating disorder is a mental or physical problem like depression. I feel it is a chemical imbalance that is triggered or acts up..somehow and for some reason that area of my brain that controls the eating response becomes over stimulated and I binge. Like the chemical imbalance in depression, to much or too little of one chemical in the brain can change everything.

I was on amino acid therapy a year ago, after reading promising results using them to treat binge eating..the articles and the dr said that binge eating is often associated with to little of certain brain chemicals and the response is the binge. They worked for a couple months and then it got to where I had to keep increasing the amounts I was taking to help keep the sharpness of that need to binge off. It didn't totally take all the urge away but the need to binge became a tiny voice in the back of my mind compared to a barreling train screaming thru my head and causing physical reactions of sweating, increased heart rate, etc. I keep thinking that maybe I will begin the therapy again after taking time off from it, hoping for results again. I just don't know. I cant explain my binge eating or give it just one source. There are multiple factors that combine to tip the scale in the favor of a binge. I feel that the chemical imbalance I have makes me prone to the binge behavior and then you add in other day to day factors, stress, emotions, anything like that, and my body kicks that binge reaction into gear-binging is a physical response for me due to mental and physical stimuli (real or imagined such as a real insult and stress or the imagined insult I sometimes feel due to low self esteem when someone looks at you and you think they are judging you saying you are not good enough etc..that triggers a response from me).

I am of the belief that eating disorders vary from person to person. There are some people that seem to genuinely begin something like anorexic or bulimia or attempt to and "cant" and then there are those who dont try to be that way and they are anyway..sort of the same thing in people who drink. There are people who can drink and they don't become addicted to it. I only use this as an example because I do remember in high school a couple of friends trying to lose weight by "becoming bulimic" and they didn't have all the other factors that cause the eating disorder..I can remember them in the bathroom trying to thru up their lunch and hearing them saying well thats just gross I can' t do this each time I want to eat-they had no emotional issues tied to the disorder or physical "need" to act out the cycle or binge and purge that a bulimic knows.

I never tried to become a binge eater, don't remember my first binge because it seems like such a part of me and there never was any real choice or decision made on my part. I had just as much choice in suffering from binge eating disorder as I did being born with green eyes..it just happened and its part of my makeup. For whatever reason, the action to binge is part of me. It is as much a disease as asthma, depression, etc. I'm not saying it is the same thing, I am just saying you can not chose being born with any of those either. There may be some people who some how, some where, are able to say I am going to "binge" on Friday night and eat a pizza, ice cream, and everything else I want, then be good all week..to me that signals more of an over eating kind of thing that we all might do on occasion. Heck, I am able to feel three different things towards food, there is the normal eating behavior that i have, an occasional over eating, and then there is the binge that I can't make a choice in it occurring (the feeling or need to binge)..its like an attack and I feel like I will die, like I'm obsessed, a true addictive behavior and actions, unless I follow thru.

I don't know, maybe I am just different. But, does anyone else have these experiences? I mean there are times when I can have a normal relationship with food-go to a restaurant or family gathering, not even want to eat or just eat what would be a normal amount and stop because I am full. I don't have that binge feeling with me. The binge isn't about being hungry, I've felt hungry too and I just eat a normal amount til I'm full, then there is the binge action that happens and I'm not hungry, I don't taste the food, and its not about enjoying the food I am eating-the food is just a way to deliver the high or a tool that I use during the binge storm. Eventually, after enough of the food is consumed the physical feeling stops. I don't feel full psychically even though I've often consumed 20,000 + calories, I just feel flat and indifferent towards the food. I could still go on to eat a normal meal later after eating enough for 5 people-and I often eat dinner an hour or so after a full out binge. Its a mystery and I don't know how my stomach doesn't just burst.

I am hanging on today, went into work just before 6 to start training. I can't begin to explain how much I disliked getting up at 4:05, instead of 4:45 which I had thought was bad enough. I will do it, and learn what I need to learn, but I dont' see me getting much gratification out of this job that I am learning since its not a job I really want. But, I will try to learn as much as I can, and do the job well. It is a lot more work that I have never done before and there will be the added stress of dealing with tons of parents on the phone, running the office and people at work..I worry that changes wont be good for me and that I might eventually have food issues when I have a bad day or get stressed, guess we will wait and see. I hope it has at least once bonus for me in the fact that I might walk away with a little more self esteem, feel a sense of self worth, learning something I thought I'd be no good at and not able to do? Maybe, it might be good for me? I'm trying not to be negative. One plus, my husband called and left me a voicemail this morning telling me he loves me, proud of me, knows I will do a good job, and missed me this morning because I was at work before he even woke up this morning. It means a lot to hear him be confident, and also great to hear his voice saying "I love you". He wants to hear all about my day when I get home tonight.

I did make an appointment to have my hair cut about 4 weeks ago..its tonight at 4:30 after work. I can tell that emotionally I am not as confident, not as sure of myself after gaining back these 12 lbs. I was upbeat, happy, and liked how I was feeling and looking last time I made that appointment..this time I am having the anxious feelings I often get going into public, the feeling of being judged, not fitting in, being surrounded by those perfect women at the salon and just not being able to handle it. Well, it could be worse right, I will remind myself that at least you don't have to be naked in public to get a hair cut its not like anyone can really see what I look like under my clothes-right. lol. I just often get that feeling emotionally of being judged of others seeing me and knowing I'm "fake" that I am not as good as they are, that I am fat, that I binge and can't control myself which is why I'm heavier than when I was there last time, and I always have that feeling of being stared at-all my life and that voice in my head tearing me apart with things like those ladies are thinking about how ugly you are, you can't do your hair, your nose is to big, and if they were you they wouldn't come in here, you don't belong here. Oh, the joy. right>

Hi Cyn,

I'm sorry but I don't totally agree with you. I haven't seen the other post. But i do know that for me personally, binge eating has become quite a habit. In certain situations, when i feel certain emotions (most of 'em) I turn to food. It probably didn't start out that way, but now it has become an automatic reaction to some things. The only reason I now call it a 'habit' is because I am more mindful of my behaviour and why I am doing it. At the same time, when the urge to binge comes on, i feel completely out of control, it pushes me to get in the car and drive to the shops for a mountain of sweet food. So there perhaps two types of binge behaviours - that urge that seems to come from nowhere and nothing but what i crave will suffice and those binges which aren't driven by urge, but driven by a habit, the memory in the brain of 'when i sit and watch xxxxx show, i eat xxxx'.

My binge eating is clinically diagnosed, by specialist medical staff, so I do fit the clinical definition of a binge eater. My binges can consist of many thousands of calories in a very short space of time, and have the secretive behaviours, the hiding and hoarding. Like you, i can binge on a good 10,000 worth of calories and then sit down to a meal with the family.

I have no idea what triggered this behaviour. Looking back through my life, I realise that I have had these behaviours since I was quite a young child (6 or 7). There was certainly no dieting involved. My mother has never been on a diet in her life (and she is quite large). All of my family are large. Only my maternal aunt has ever worried about weight and dieting. My grandparents owned a confectionery shop, one of those old fashioned ones, and there was never any restriction on me having sweets. So I disagree slightly that binging starts because food is restricted.

Since i realised what my eating problem was and got my diagnosis (about 14 months ago), I did a lot of reading and research on the subject. None of it resonated with me. Everything i read told me that my problem was emotional. That i ate because i couldn't deal with my emotions. That I ate because i had unresolved issues in my past and i was trying to stuff them down with food.

I didn't believe this to be true. I am a fairly self-open person. By this i mean i don't hide from myself. I acknowledge and embrace my faults and failures for what they are - an opportunity to learn. So i went back over the major events of my life to see what was lurking from there that I was ignoring and I couldn't think of anything. I've had two sessions of therapy with a counsellor and we've gone through my life timeline in some detail. He agrees that he doesn't see anything in there as an emotional time bomb.

I do eat in response to my emotions, but not because I'm trying to suppress them, or hide them or ignore them. But because it seems to me to be learned behaviour. I feel happy, lets celebrate with cake! I feel sad, lets make it better with cake. I feel angry, lets calm down with cake.(and ice cream and biscuits and chocolate and cheese and milkshake and and and!).

However, I did start reading Brain over Binge at the weekend, and so much of what is said there did resonate with me. The thing i need to figure out is what triggered the cycle way back in the beginning. What she says about neural pathways forming stronger and stronger chains in the brain the more you repeat an action makes perfect sense to me.

However, for me, its not a case of I've made a decision to stop binging, so now I've stopped. I have made a decision to stop binging. Its the same decision I've made every morning for the last 18 months. But now, I have an understanding of how i make it stop. What the urges are. And thinking about it in that sciency-logical way so far makes it easier than thinking i'm emotionally deficit in some way. But I have battled with it on a couple of occasions this week (yes i've only been trying a few days, but thats a win for me!). The urges are still there, growling in my head, but i feel better equipped to deal with them. I don't know how long it will last. But should I fail, i will pick myself up and start again. I am not suddenly cured. I will have to be on my guard against this for the rest of my life I think, but now i have some tools in my arsenal which seem to be helping. I don't think there is one magic cure. I think I need lots of different techniques, used in combination or rotation to help me. For example, when i was initially losing weight, it was because i was hosting a big dinner for my dad. I wanted to have a beautiful dress. I wanted to look good. I wanted him to be proud of me. That gave me the strength to resist the urges. Pretty much the week after the dinner, i returned straight back to old habits and eating patterns. Even though I had 'goals' of walking a 15 mile charity walk the next week and running a 5k 3 months later, they did not motivate me in the same way to 'break my programming' and in less than 6 months I gained back almost half of the wait I'd lost in the previous year. No goal set by my trainer has yet inspired me in the same way.

I feel lighter knowing that my emotional health isn't whats holding me back. There is nothing wrong with me per se, nothing i can't change. Perhaps its a feeling that I can change it, I can be in control, whereas binging left me feeling so out of control, so hideously weak.

All we can do is take it one day at a time, use whatever tricks we can to get us through the day and pick ourselves up when we stumble. And support each other as we do it. Our 'triggers', emotional responses and needs and urges to binge are all different, but we're all here for the same reason.

Happy New Years!! 🎉🎉🎉 after a long holiday season, needing root canal and a few horribly cold days in NY when I didn't want it go outside, I'm on Day 1 and thrilled to be back here with you all!!

I just want to say, to mainecyn and orangesmartie, that yours are two beautifully written portraits of individual binge eaters. I personally don't think "binge eating is a disease" and "binge eating is a bad habit with neurological underpinnings" are irreconcilable points of view. I think they are points on a whole spectrum of different individuals. And they are also different angles, different takes on what is helpful.

We need to listen to each other to overcome this monster. I'm glad we have this place where we can do that, and I'm humbled by both of yours ability to put these horrible experiences in words.

I agree with Fiona. I think that binge eating, or any eating disorder, is a very individualized issue for each person. There are different opinions, there are different things that work for everyone. I can agree with what orangesmartie says as well because if it works for her, than it works. Its as simple as that. But, in my case nothing has ever completely worked.

I did really think about about the differences between habit and addiction and then got technical and looked it up

Addiction - there is a psychological/physical component; the person is unable to control the aspects of the addiction without help because of the mental or physical conditions involved.
Habit - it is done by choice. The person with the habit can choose to stop, and will subsequently stop successfully if they want to. The psychological/physical component is not an issue as it is with an addiction.

I've tried looking back as far as I can remember to the very first time I experienced binge eating, I can't. I can see how a habit, can develop INTO an addiction or a compulsion. I understand the connect, when I was a teen I began smoking. I wasn't addicted on the first cigarette and it was a habit, as time past, and grew into years, I had a physical need or addiction for nicotine. It may be that binge eating starts out small, just as everything else and grows. There are so many things that can influence the way people behave. But I have tried over and over for years to conquer my binge eating deciding that this is it, I can control it etc. Doesn't work for me. I believe that binge eating is an eating disorder and it ties into so many other things for each person.

I care about how everyone is doing here, and I know that the others do as well. We all have offered support, encouragement, and listen to each other and do it respectfully. I like that we can disagree and be ok. I post based on my own personal experiences and what binge eating has been like for me. I am sure that there are others here that can relate to everything we say. I think orangesmartie said it best when she said

I have lived this as well but when I feel the ugre to binge it seems that the feeling is there first and then the actions follow. I have been in a middle of a binge and then ran down the street buying everything I can get my hands on that is covered in chocolate or peanut butter. I have been in that situation but at the same time while that is going on there is a huge physical and mental reaction happening to me when I binge. It is a total uncontrollable compulsion to act the binge out, I think we are both probably speaking of the same thing just using different words. I use addiction, disorder, compulsion, because my binge eating has just taken over my life. For me habit just isn't a strong enough word for what happens (to me personally). I do have moments when I am trying to control the binge eating and a strong emotion (anger) can seem to suddenly make me snap and then its like I have boiled over and what every it is that makes me binge finally has reached the level it needs to come on..does that make sense?


I agree with what your saying and its a set of skills that I've tried to aquire myself. I have tried to understand the binge, why I do it, and I've had some success for short amounts of time controlling it when the urge is there-but only when it is a small urge, not boiling over or screaming at me. I suppose it means that somewhere I have made some success because I am able to control it even the littlest bit is positive right>?

Youve said everything I wanted to say only YOU made sense. I tend to ramble and go on. I try to sort thru the jumbled mess while I am typing. Its a way to think. I guess I also should have explained the post that I had read, what I was trying to explain. I also want to say again that I do agree with what you said. I feel my binge eating is two sided, or a zillion sided at times, I think I am prone to this binge eating due to whatever mental makeup I have and environmental, emotions, etc. I think for me what Ive been trying to say is my binge encompasses everything and I can see that there are the two types of binging. The post I had read was one sided and said that binging is the result of one thing, not taking into account the individual differences we all face, triggers, etc. Its to complicated.

I also after reading your post am looking at it and explaining it to myself. I want to develop the habit of exercising, getting out and walking each and every day. I want that habit to develop into something that is automatic. I think that if you dissect it enough and really break it down the binge began once, that action of binge eating helped and made me feel better to a point, I then repeated that behavior over and over until it became an automatic response. The only problem with the binge eating for me (and I am sure for others) is eventually the other issues with it came, the emotional hate towards myself, the feeling of fat, hiding food, etc. those down feelings didn't start out with the binge eating or one never would have repeated the behavior. I see a great deal of similarities in addicts and the way that works.

Day 3 and feeling stronger like this time I'm going to keep on going!!

My teeth are brushed, I'm getting ready for bed, and Day 3 is done.
These past couple of days have been really good.
I went for a workout yesterday morning, and though I only intended to spend 45 minutes there, I stayed on the eliptical for an hour, plus 2 shifts (5 hours) of dishwashing. I ate well, too.
Today I worked in the morning again (food prep in the kitchen this time) for 5 hours, ate when I was hungry there, and then came home, did homework, and went snowshoeing for an hour and a half. I had veggie lo mein for dinner, and had a clementine afterwards instead of more lo mein

Mondays are my busy days with classes, so I'll be occupied tomorrow

Mainecyn,

I apologize if it was my words you were reacting to as it sounds like something I might have said. What you described as the other person's writing sounds right out of the book "Brain Over Binge". I'm a recovering bulimic and alcoholic. I went through therapists, AA, treatments of all sort, and self help books but nothing helped me like the book Brain Over Binge. Identifying bulimia and alcoholism as habits rather than as diseases and differentiating between the upper and lower brains was tremendously helpful in my struggle. I have seriously not had a drink or a binge since reading the book and adopting the methods that she describes, and yes I would have considered myself a hopeless case in the past. Everyone's recovery is individual, and some methods work better for others. You should see people's posts and advice here as simply stories from their own experiences which don't necessarily apply to everyone. We're all here to try and help each other and learn.

Snowshoeing-wow, great exercise. I remember snowshoeing years ago growing up in Maine. It was a great way to get a workout, raise the heart rate, and it also really helped with my balance.

It sounds like you are in control and staying the course, growing stronger each day. I have a weakness for take out Chinese food..you showed great control not going back for seconds.

I have made it a week. I am trying to handle things and believe in myself. I know we all have our own way of handling things, and doing things, that is why this thread is so helpful (board as well). It is full of advice, what worked for someone, and support.

I am still going in early to work, started last week. I get there just before 6. I seem to do ok eating wise while at work in the morning. I was tempted to hurry out the door this morning but stopped to make myself a wrap using two slices of turkey and some cream cheese. Its been stressful at work and stress seems to make me want to snack. The protien stuck with me. Thank goodness because when I got into work there were two sheet cakes in the breakroom the size of 2 x-large pizzas each! An employee from another department left the cakes as a thank you for our help. Within ten minutes of opening the offices for the morning one cake was almost entirely gone, and the other 1/4 of it had disappeared. I don't know what it was, the idea of free food, or the fact that it was cake, but employees were running around holding plates and acting like they were possessed trying to get a small slab for themselves.

On another note, concerning work. I work with an older lady, upper 70's. Physically, this lady is healthy very healthy. My husband worked with her 20 years ago with special needs adults. She now works with me, has for 8 years. She attached herself to me the minute she discovered I was married to her former co-worker. I have worked with her one on one for two school years now. The issue is that she has developed alzheimers, and it is progressing fast. She used to be a driver for the district but has been removed since she just couldn't process information.

The poor sweet lady repeats herself over and over, she has to have me do more and more things for her..she confided in me this morning that she was in an "almost" car accident over the weekend. She apparently went to Walmart over the weekend and forgot to put her car in park when she got out. When she returned to her car she found it had rolled into a car near her. Her memory is obviously getting worse, her meds are not working. She was very lucky no one was hurt and no damage done that was noticeable but it worries me. I observe her at work with help and reminders and she still is almost not able to function well enough to do her job. I am scared of what she is like alone outside of work.

There is no family here in our state, an older son far far away that has nothing to do with her. Just what do you do for someone like this to help? I worry about her but she doesn't listen to what I tell her and not to sound mean but I can tell her something over and over all day and she forgets it in ten mins time. Her organization is gone, she is paranoid that others are "out to get her" and has created stories in her head about other co-workers and repeats them to me as truth. Her confusion is at an all time high and I have noticed that she really confuses the kids we deal with because they know something isn't right with her behavior but can't tell what her problem is. I honestly am concerned when she speaks to parents or teachers from the district because sometimes she blurts out things that make no sense or that are very personal about herself. This is not what she used to be like.

Here in California you can call in social services if an elderly person is in trouble. You could ask the local hospital for the right number, or call the non emergency number at the sheriff or police station to get a referral. In Cali we can dial 211 for social services.

Thats a great idea, thank you. I will see what we have here. I really truly worry about her own safety at times.

Another day almost finished, hanging in there. Busy with meetings the rest of the day.

Eating, had greek yogurt with fresh berries this morning, lunch some chicken breast soup. I am in an ok place. Nothing up or down emotionally and no signs of a binge. I have been going over and over in my head just what this is, how after so many years I've failed to control it (binge eating). I remember years ago saying I would get this under control because I didn't want to turn 30 and still be this way, well I'm 40 now and still not a good relationship with food. I don't want to be an 80 year old lady trying to binge in the nursing home.

I do remember something very odd from last year concerning my binge eating. I can't seem to control it at all here. Last year I returned home to my parents to take care of a very ill mother. I was home for a long time and while I had been binging constantly before the trip I felt the urge disappear, in fact I rarely ate, and when I did it was just to the point of being full. I remember thinking wait a min. why do I not binge here at my childhood home especially full of stress dealing with having to take care of my mother who had a major stoke. I still am wondering about it. I often think is the binge a response to my environment here, and I felt safe at home or no need to binge?

Valkyrie1, thank you for the information about what to do for co-worker.

I spent a lot of time thinking about it this afternoon and came to a couple conclusions, one I am unsure about going to our boss as I hate to cause her embarrassment, and start with the place she earns her income. It may sound like I'm babysitting my co-worker, but until I have a better solution I will just try to really keep her close and handle the one on one with the parents. Secondly, I was referred to a senior center here in our city. The only issue with getting help for her thru the senior center is the fact that unless she belongs (which she doesn't) they are not involved and will not get involved. So, the third idea I came up with is her church.

My co-worker is LDS (Mormon). In our city there is a huge population that are LDS, majority of the town. She does attend church a couple times a week, drives there (which scares me). So, I got a hold of a bishop in her ward. There is a large community involvement with the missionaries, and the "brothers and sisters" (which basically what you call others in the church I guess). I learned that there are women's groups and men's group that do at home studies and also are known just to check up on members who have not attended church recently.

I am still doing well today. I had an appointment with my lawyer this afternoon. I was in a traffic accident that resulted in multiple neck and back surgeries for me. Its been stressful the past few years dealing with all of this emotionally and physically, but I came thru the meeting fine. I remained objective and didn't get emotional. I have come to terms that this is how the game is played with lawyers and insurance companies. In the past I would feel like a criminal myself by the time I came home. I'd feel sad, angry, and a million other emotions. I'd also stop and get a shake on the way home as well-chocolate peanut butter. I didn't do it

Its been 9 days since my last binge. I'm working for more.

Sorry I haven't been around for a couple of days. I've been away for work and getting organised to move 200 miles away and all sorts of things. Very stressful, but still binge free! Feeling really good about it.

However, I have noticed that I still overeat at times (not a binge by any stretch, either by thoughts or calories consumed) and this seems to be more a habit. e.g i'll get a sandwich for lunch. most shops do a 'meal deal' which includes a sandwich, crisps (chips in American ) and a drink, and out of habit i'll add a chocolate bar. And I'll eat it all. And feel over full, for hours. Something I haven't felt in a long long time. So now I am going to try and focus more on thinking consciously about what i am eating and how much. It does feel like a real step forward for me though. In binge mode, there wasn't enough food in the world to fill me up.

Cyn, i really enjoy reading your 'rambling' thoughts, it gives me an opportunity to think things through and sort through my own thoughts and feelings.