While I'm in total agreement with you about calories in and calories burned, not all people reach that equilibrium at the same point. There is overwhelming evidence that weight loss, gain, and retention carry a heavy genetic component. I'm sure you know someone who can sock away startling amounts of calorie-dense food, yet who stays pretty slim; from your posts, you might even BE that person. :) Well, the reverse happens too, and there are people who gain or retain more weight on the same calorie intake and expenditure as someone for whom that'd be a weight-loss program.

Also, not everyone wants to be thin. Some of the folks in your classes might be entirely happy with their weight, but want to improve their overall fitness. While I doubt many people actively want to deal with the physical limitations that come with extreme obesity, there are plenty of people who prefer to carry a little junk in the trunk. Some people are more comfortable with being well-upholstered. My own goal weight is going to leave me pretty well-rounded, and that's how I want to be.

I would be quite hurt at any suggestion that I should be trying to lose weight if I were simply comfortable at the top end of a healthy weight or being slightly overweight.

As a PT, I don't think it's your job to advise on nutrition and diet unless you are specifically trained to do so. That said, one of the most important pieces of advice I was ever told came from my doctor who said, "You diet to lose weight. You exercise to get fit." At the time I didn't believe him and thought I could lose weight through exercise alone, but I was only truly successful when I changed my diet. He was right. So you might tell your clients that, but unless you are trained to advise on diet I'd leave that to them and just focus on teaching them how to get fit.

OMG, Dee, I'm from your "sister city" in WI - same name. There's only 3 Eagle Rivers in the US. :D

I agree that it's not my job. It drives me crazy, but it's not my job. I hate that because of political correctness, I won't be able to help as much as I want to.

Nola - I agree that genetics play a role...however, if you're dealt with a low metabolism, then your intake should be even lower. Peeps who genetically burn less, genetically need fewer calories. No?

For the record, I do not have a genetic "high" metabolism. I do not sock away amazing amounts of calories. Yes I put ice cream on my oat meal. I also will eat a lean protein-calcium-only lunch on those days to balance it out.

I agree with you that not everyone wants to be thin. Not my point at all. I am more than happy for ppl who are happy in their own skin and do not judge. My post was more for the ppl in my life who are constantly preoccupied with their weight, who are working so hard at trying to lose weight, who are in obvious denial of their eating habits. I'm really only talking about 7 people in my life that I can actually name. Just so you know, this question, while it was a general question, was really about extremely specific people that I know and love.

Take care.

This comment is why I think you should steer clear of addressing diet unless they specifically ask you for pointers. People DO have a many medical conditions that cause bloating and weight gain. They DO take medications that may be preventing them from shedding the weight based on sheer mathematics. You never know what condition like PCOS, insulin resistance, diabetes, infertility treatments, kidney disease, or thyroid troubles they might be dealing with. And Yes, these are real conditions that prohibit weight loss and are not excuses.

Be careful of stereotyping people, even if they are heavy. A lot of people don't know how their bodies burn fuel and that it perpetuates a problem but they are not necessarily choosing to be blind or ignorant about their health. If what they are eating is a problem, they actually need to see a nutritionist who can help them figure out their personal nutrition needs and help them create a workable diet.

4star, I'm sorry if I struck a nerve or offended you in any way. That was the opposite of my intention.

I don't think I made it clear enough that I was addressing the topic with specific people in my mind, all of whom CLEARLY have an eating issue and not an issue with meds. Case in point, at our gym we had a "biggest loser" type competition. One of the contestants was seen more than once purchasing large quantities of chocolate bars. She also happened to be the only one to lose less than 20 lbs. In fact, she only lost 3.

So while it can be debated whether or not meds cause weight gain (I did not intend to say they can't prevent weight loss) and I was also never discussing any diabetic, I have gotten my answer about addressing over eating and binging. It is quite clear to me to BACK OFF.

Thanks again for your input.

I do however think that directing someone with suspected disordered eating to a professional is not out of line for her as a personal trainer. Personal trainers yes, are concerned with fitness, but fitness and nutrition are not exclusive from each other. Poor nutrition will reflect poor fitness (this goes for both overeaters and undereaters). If fitness4life had a client who she suspected had anorexia and/or binge eating compulsions then I believe she is well within her right to suggest and direct them towards a licensed professional to deal with that.

It would be irresponsible for her to continue to train a person with an eating disorder and/or other health complications without at least finding out if it existed, IMO, and I think that is a point she is trying to make concerning clients.

As a personal trainer, I would not train someone with anorexia due to the dangerous liability (ie. cardiac arrest), the same may go for someone with overeating compulsions. Again, she would not be counseling them on their disorder, only directing them towards a licensed professional.

I am not offended. It's just that when you are getting ready to confront someone who has an ED, it shoudn't be done without a therapist. Some people have a great deal of emotional trauma to sort out and bringing that to the surface has to be a controlled process for their mental health's sake. A confrontation might fly in the face of the personal progress they are already making. Develop a relationship. Get to know them. If they trust you, they might confide in you and then you can point them in the direction of help.

When confronting someone about their weight it's best coming from a medical professional who can assess their weight from a diagnostic standpoint. People really don't have the same nutritional requirements. Every body is different. You can be telling someone to stop drinking so much milk b/c it's making them fat from all the carbs but if they have an undiagnosed vitamin D deficiency, they are going to likely crave milk. If someone is insulin resistant, they have to manage carbs well to prevent blood sugar issues. The normal recommended diet is just too high in carbs and people end up bouncing their blood sugar all around being left tired and hungry. It doesn't help that people will just carelessly attribute that to laziness either. These things are real and do affect people more than is statistically realized.

What gossip people pass around about him or her may not even matter. Who's to say they aren't buying candy bars for their kid's soccer team or someone other than themselves? My Gma was diabetic and slightly overweight although not obese and it wouldn't make sense that she always had candy unless you knew that she could have sudden crashes so she HAD to keep things like that on hand. Life is never as simple as it seems.

My honest best advice is to try to see these people without judgement of their eating habits and IF an opportunity arises where you are asked for input, let them pick your brain for info. Sometimes people need a therapist to get to the root of why they eat the way they do.

I agree, and I also think that clients & friends could very well be coming to her and presenting her with a more general problem like: "I need to lose weight" rather than specific goals like: "I need to increase my cardio endurance & I'm also hoping to tone up my arms & legs, & get flatter abs."

If all she is ever allowed to do is take these people through an exercise routine, then the person with specific goals is an easier client to work with (even though we know "abs are made in the kitchen" & part of the program should be related to nutrition) but the person with the general goal of losing weight would be rather frustrating to deal with because such limitations leave the trainer unable to take a holistic view of the problem.

Who in the client's life would have a holistic view of a weight problem, though?

I'm left with a sort of a medical analogy. Is a personal trainer more akin to your GP or to a specialist? Given that you probably see your personal trainer more frequently, I'm inclined to think she's like a GP, and that while she has some knowledge in non-exercise-related areas, and can give a little bit of advice in them, she refers you off to a nutritionist or a counselor for more specialized advice. So she can give you tips about balanced meals & getting in your vegetables & drinking your water; and she can talk with you a little bit about behavioral changes (not eating so much at night or in front of the TV) & about setting goals & pushing through discomfort. But beyond that, she's probably sending you off to a specialist.

I can't see a personal trainer as strictly concerned with the mechanics of exercise, and nothing further. I think people tend to want more from them than that. There's a personal relationship there. (Heck the word "personal" is in the job description.) So there's no way I'm going to fault a trainer for thinking about ways to tackle the bigger problem, in an effort to help a client (or friend) & trying to figure out where her responsibilities end. It's really murky, when your job is pretty much to help people.

Neither. They are akin to a personal trainer at a gym who can help you learn exercises and how to do them. If asked for nutritional advice it should come with a huge disclaimer and they should be instructed to ask their Doctor for a nutritional guideline. You can be a trainer with nutritional credentials but unless you are, I think I'd steer clear of giving that advice to clients. It is akin to giving medical advice in certain situations.

$star, sacha, saef - all very good points. I'm glad through your points that my dilemma was further clarified.

As a degreed phy ed teacher, I do have nutrition education, although I'm not a licensed nutritionist. My background involving psych, I also acknowledge the fragility of anyone with ANY disorder and know that food related disorders are almost exclusively NOT about food. It's what is eating you, not what you're eating. I get that.

I guess I'm just frustrated that pointing out a problem concerning weight and/or food is still taboo. It's far less taboo to out the town drunk than to out the town binge eater, but not that "outing" them is even the point.

In the end, if you're a good human being, ya just wanna help. AND be effective giving help. You guys have all helped me so thanks!

Side note to 4 star - of course we (the trainers) considered the possibilities of why she bought so much candy. Too much info to list here but let me just say, it was proven that the candy purchase was for her own consumption at a single sitting. No one confronted her. That was a catalyst for my post.

It's not about being "policially correct," it's about the fact that you're not living in their body experiencing what they are experiencing. Do you really think you'd be telling them anything they didn't already know? I mean, do you think they aren't bright enough to figure out that they're eating too much of the wrong things? What good do you think would come from it? When I was actively binging, I knew exactly what I was doing, that it wasn't good for me, and that it was contributing to my weight problems. I was working through it in my own way, in my own time. No one "confronting" me about it would have done anything but make me feel like sh!t, which really isn't helpful in this situation. I really would have been resentful of someone presuming that they deserved access to my medical/emotional/psychological information or that they felt qualified to comment or advise without that information. FTR, it really isn't helpful to confront "town drunks" either. I know there's a huge emphasis on things like interventions since the show went on the air, but I don't know that there's any evidence that an intervention actually does the person in question any bit of good. It might make everyone else feel better, and feel like they "did something," but how often does it really help the person they're worried about?

This is a really good point. I'm a self-taught "expert" on nutrition, weight loss and exercise. I've spent far, far more time and effort on weight loss than either my bachelor's or master's degree in psychology.

I've been given well-meant, but incredibly stupid advice from health professionals. One doctor told me that I would lose a lot of weight if I simply stopped eating desert and stopped buying ice cream and sweets. If I wanted an ice cream cone, I should buy one cone at an ice cream shop."

I wasn't offended, that the doctor commented on my weight. I was offended that he gave blind advice based on false assumptions without bothering to check whether his assumptions were false or not

And when I told him sweets weren't my problem, because I almost never ate dessert?

His response was a dumbfounded slack-jawed expression. That was the extent of the advice he had for me.

For the most part, I don't need advice or information. The most helpful advice I ever got from a doctor was my current doctor who suggested I try low-carb, as I might find it more effective, especially with my blood sugar issues.

I was so used to thinking of low-carb as unhealthy, I needed a second opinion (from a doctor who lost nearly 100 lbs herself on a modified Atkins).

What you think you know may be wrong. I spent more than 30 years of my life studying my food issues, and what I thought about myself was wrong. Turns out the only way to control my hunger is to eat lower carb than most well-informed people (even myself) would consider healthy.

Before you bring up the issue with anyone, you need to know whether you're really dealing with someone who is uninformed, or are you dealing with someone who is well-informed and/or doing the best that they currently can. Are you dealing with someone who has a knowledge issue or a motivation issue?


I think in evaluating what you should say (or if), you have to first evaluate your motives and your methods of doing so. Are you willing to be educated by the people you are wanting to educate? Are you open to the possibility that they actually might know more than you do on the subject? How will you respond, if that is the case? Will you be offended, or at a loss for words if they demonstrate superior knowledge? Will you assume that they are lying if they don't tell you what you believe to be true? Are you planning on confronting the perceived lie? Are you open to the possibility that it isn't a lie? Would it "shock" you to learn that some of the people you're wanting to "educate" may actually know more about their eating issues than you do? Or are you going to assume (as it sounded in your original post) that they're "lying" if their behavior doesn't fit your preconceived notions of what someone their size must really be doing in the privacy of their own home.


In my experience, if you're truly respectful, you can discuss almost anything with almost anybody. Of course the hard part is being truly respectful, and that means assuming nothing. That means being willing to learn as well as teach.

If you think you can be that respectful, then my advice would be go ahead and say what you feel needs to be said, but do it with twice the tact and respect you think is necessary. Asking whether they are interested in discussing the topic would be a good start (and respecting their choice, if they say "no thanks.")


The hardest part isn't the discussion of the issue, it's providing the proper amount of respect. Even the least mentally capable person (even someone severely mentally handicapped with the functioning level of a two-year old) recognizes condescension and disrespect. Some of what you say in your posts does seem as though you're being a bit condescending and grossly oversimplifying the issue. If that comes across in-person, you'll do more harm than good both to the person, and to your reputation. You may be more informed than you seem, and you may be more compassionate in real life than your comments in your posts reflect.


It may be a harsh lesson, but I think the best feedback on whether you're able to provide that degree of respect is to try it. Ask the questions you want to, in the way you'd want it asked if you were in their place. If you don't have or can't portray respect and openness to learning, you'll tick people off and lose their business, friendship and respect. If you do have the skills or are able to quickly learn them, you'll get mostly positive responses, and probably in the bargain, learn as much as you teach. If you don't have the skills, the negative feedback will tell you.

Just as with weight loss itself, trial and error is pretty much the only road open to you.

Don't we all know we have a problem? The denial is over how bad the problem is. And not saying something about their eating to your clients and family is not about political correctness--it's about effectiveness vs hurtfulness. You can't be effective until they want help.

All you can do at this point is to treat them very kindly and non-judgmentally, with dignity and respect. If they see that they can trust you, they might--I said might--open up to you, IF they've gotten sick and tired enough of their behavior and it's consequences.

So if I were you, I would leave them alone. If you really care for them, then pray that they would encounter the person who could help them.

I speak from experience. I was in your clients'/family's position, confronted by another member, and this was my reaction, and these my feelings.

First off i didn't read much beyond the first post, confronting someone who has an eating disorder, IMO from experience with one will result in immediate withdrawl and negative feelings.

In an ideal world you could supply them with all the information they need to make the connect for themselves ( without the need to throw it in their face ), as someone tasked with the job of weight loss you should again IMO be responsible for educating those individuals on the science of food, calories in calories out, fats, carbs, proteins, recognizing negative behaviors, tailoring meal consumption and when each individual should consumme their daily allowance (differs from person to person)


We never really learn much about food and it's the most integral part of our survival, when i started my lifestyle change i looked at this aspect, it wasn't about losing weight entirely, to begin with it was about learning, how can someone perform a task properly if they are never taught ? I binged because i tried to maintain a schedule that fit in with societies demands and not my own, now i eat most of my calories late because thats when my body demands it, no more fighting myself, let my body dictate the rules and respond to the demands accordingly, i don't binge at night because my late meal has now replaced that demand.

Kaplods, your response has been most enlightening and helpful. I need to work on myself. I need to figure out just why I think the way I do. I need to see beyond my own experience, education and gut feeling. I need to see that so that I no longer come off the way you say I do. The problem may very well be that I see no real proof of anything opposite, no matter how hard I try. But I will keep trying and keep educating myself so that I can better help my clients. That's the main reason I'm here. Thanks for saying what needed to be said.