A word about cheating
 

When you cheat, that cookie, scoop of ice cream, slice of pizza, bite of chocolate, whatever, throws you out of Ketosis. You stop burning fat for energy because you have glycogen to work with, and it can take up to 4 days of proper eating for your body to switch back. On Atkins, cheating is not about how many extra calories you ate or how much water you're retaining, it's about being in or being out of Ketosis. During the switchover from glycogen to Ketosis you will not loose, no matter how strictly you follow plan. Also, it's hardest to eat right at the beginning when your body is switching fuel sources and demanding more glycogen. Once you've been following plan with no cheats for a while, the cravings disappear, appetite diminishes, and it becomes habit (just the way you eat, not a "diet").

I keep reading about people who cheat regularly. It seems as though anytime something happens, a dinner out, a child's birthday party, an illness, a fight w/a spouse, a weekend get together, a bad day at work, a holiday, PMS, etc., they choose to go off plan - sometimes staying off for days. They yo-yo back and forth with Ketosis, in, out, in, out, in, out, and it takes a heavy toll on body and emotions.

If that sounds like you, have you considered that Atkins may not be the best choice for you? Atkins is pretty inflexable, and takes dedication and a real committment in order to succeed. If for whatever reason you aren't able to follow through with that committment, why not consider doing something else? Other weight loss plans, particularly weight watchers, let you plan for "cheating", and if you eat cake, it doesn't have the same impact because you aren't taking fat off in the same manner. It seems like it would really help with the frustration, feelings of failure and hopelessness that come across in many of the cheating posts I read.

Just a thought, and maybe something to keep in mind next time you pick up a cookie

Tenn

I have to interject; a lot of the cheating has to do with habit.
Sometimes it can take MONTHS to get over a habit of junk food or eating all day long. Especially if it has been since childhood.

This does not necicarily mean Atkins is a bad choice; it just means the person has some deep issues to figure out and work threw.

Well said, Tenn!!! I believe that sticking to plan is the ONLY way to do this and the book even says NO CHEATING. People might have issues, etc, etc, but I believe if a person REALLY wants to succeed then they will be able to say 'no thanks, my body deserves better.'

(will begin to listen to own advise.)

Originally Posted by :
I have to interject; a lot of the cheating has to do with habit.
Sometimes it can take MONTHS to get over a habit of junk food or eating all day long. Especially if it has been since childhood.

Absolutely, but the physical cravings fall away when you've been on plan for a while, and that makes the habits easier to deal with. If you cheat, you never get to that point, and you'll face constant struggle and defeat and an endless round of in\out, in\out with ketosis over and over again - it's ineffective and very discouraging. I'm not being mean or ugly, just saying that if you DO have the type of issues that make it impossible to stick exactly, then another way of eating will give you a better result.

Let me tell you this. I am new to atkins, but not weightloss. I am down almost 100lbs or right at. My eating habits have been since childhood and let me tell you. I woke up one day and decided that I was going to do this and that no one could help me but myself and it was a conscience decision and let me tell you, the temptation was there, but my will power and the love for myself always prevailed and I lost wait cause of the conscience decision I made to love myself. You have to just let those ways and habits go and do what it right for you and your body. I hope that everyone can come to the relization that i did cause things were so clear after that. I wish everyone the best of luck.

Personally I think that "all or nothing" attitude has to go. I agree that Atkins does work somewhat differently than other diets, but for me, just being on Atkins means that I eat less than I would normally even if I do occasionally have something that is off plan. I don't think I should be eating things off plan and I don't want to make those kinds of choices. But I do think there is a danger in telling myself "well I screwed up, maybe Atkins isn't for me" too.

Higher carb foods even if consumed only once will create extra water weight and you will immediately gain quite a bit back of what you had previously lost. This can feel discouraging. Also the part about having to get rid of the cravings again and recommit and be just extra careful for 3 or 4 days I agree with. I think that is the part about Atkins that is hard. Any slips require going back on "induction" and suffering through withdrawals again.

But while Atkins does say "no cheating" he also says if you do slip to go immediately back onto "induction" he doesn't say "give up on Atkins and do something else."

I don't think all or nothing attitudes serve us well. Beating oneself up is counter productive. Recommitting, redeciding that you CAN't keep cheating or giving up is important. But throwing in the towel and saying "I just can't do this" is not the answer either. Not for me anyway. I CAN do it. I just need to really focus and not allow those little deviations. And I need to recognize that it WILL be harder once I've slipped to recommit, and to stay on track for a few days.

The only failure is to give up trying. Sure there are other diets. We can switch if that seems the best option. I may do that one day, but not today.

But Sherry, I’m not talking about an occasional slip, I think most people have those, I’m talking about a consistent pattern of eating off plan. It takes it’s toll and is very discouraging for the reasons you mentioned. On any plan BUT Atkins, the impact would be greatly reduced, and the slips wouldn't cause the type of drastic consequences one faces here. You say the only failure is to give up trying, but it is also failure to keep trying something that isn’t working for you, when there are other options available that will.

Originally Posted by Sherry:

But while Atkins does say "no cheating" he also says if you do slip to go immediately back onto "induction" he doesn't say "give up on Atkins and do something else."


The only failure is to give up trying. Sure there are other diets. We can switch if that seems the best option. I may do that one day, but not today.

Yes , he does talk about slip ups.
And he never once talks about quitting or giving up!

I think one of the biggest problem with people sticking with Atkins is that they tend to still think in terms of calories and not carbs. Atkins is not a low-calorie weight loss plan and nowhere in the book of any of his articles or the Web site does it say to watch calories.

I find that if I'm eating until I'm full with protein and fats and having the 3 cups of veggies a day that I'm too full to want to eat junk food. Knowing I can eat more chicken or more steak or another plate of shrimp if I'm still hungry makes it easier for me.

I lost the first 100 lbs eating the entire package of bacon for breakfast if I felt like it or having 2 hamburger patties with cheese for lunch if I were really hungry or eating a 16 oz steak (uncooked weight) instead of the 10 oz if I knew at dinner I was going to eat junk food if I didn't.

I agree a slip up here and there happens, but if you keep on doing it and dont ever overcome then I think that maybe you should look into something more easy going. I dont think anyone here wants anyone to quit.

Originally Posted by Tennessee:
it is also failure to keep trying something that isn’t working for you, when there are other options available that will.

I agree. but the dieter may need to give it a few more tries before the decision that it is not working.

slip ups EVERY day is not good; but when they come once or twice a week.
The dieter just may need to tweak things a bit.

I have slip ups; but I cannot move to another plan; atkins is the only way to balance my hormones. So i just have to keep trying until I get it right.

And excellent job on the 100lbs Susan. You inspire me!

I'm not the Queen of Atkins telling everyone who isn't perfect to leave, that's not my point. I read of people cheating over and over again, people who aren't doing well because of the nature of Atkins that would be so much more successful on an eating plan that's more forgiving.

Originally Posted by :
slip ups EVERY day is not good; but when they come once or twice a week. The dieter just may need to tweak things a bit

No, weekly slipups are not ok. Let's take that person as an example. Monday, she's busy and starving and has a burger, fries and a shake on the way home from taking the kids to soccer practice. She immediately starts induction on Tuesday morning, but feels guilty and physically terrible all day. She decides that she's GOING to do it, sticks like glue no cheating and by Thursday afternoon, she's back in Ketosis again. She stays in Ketosis till Friday at noon, but then eats some pizza and a slice of cake at a birthday party at work. She's now out of ketosis for the weekend, and feeling mentally and physically. SO... here is a person who was perfect 95% of the week, but was only in ketosis for one day because of the way that Atkins works. Chances are very good that she will not loose any weight. Take that same person and put them on weight watchers, and they will STILL LOOSE 1 or 2 pounds. Is that more clear?

Yes. But when I have a slip up, I have a spoonful of pudding or something or a piece of fruit.
Is that the same thing?

Originally Posted by :
Yes. But when I have a slip up, I have a spoonful of pudding or something or a piece of fruit. Is that the same thing?

You knock yourself out of ketosis for however long it takes the body to process the glycogen you created with the sugar intake, because your body will burn off all the sugar before switching back to fat burning (ketosis). During that time you won't burn fat or loose, no matter how strictly you follow the plan.

Tennessee, it isn't that I disagree with you exactly. But for me, I slip, it may take awhile to get back into the swing of things. Every time I've ever started Atkins (except for perhaps the first time) it has taked a few days to get there. It isn't an easy diet to follow 100%, but I'm not certain we have to follow it 100%... What IS 100% anyway? 20 grams or less? Some people think that way, but that isn't what he wrote.

Actually how many grams of carbs you can eat and still lose weight depends a lot on your individual body. It depends on how much glycogen you burn with your exercise too.

I feel better about myself when I am fully committed to avoiding foods that I consider off limits. That is the perfectionist in me. But I'm not always going to be in that head space all the time. Sometimes I get off track and need a little while to rerail myself.

I think perfectionism is a very dangerous mindset. And I think telling people they would be better off with a different diet is like saying "you aren't supportive, you are talking the talk, and not walking the walk, go away, we don't need you here."

I know Tennessee, that isn't what you mean or want to say. I know that. I just do know too, that there was a time when people said similar things to me and I couldn't help but feel like they were right. My feelings were hurt, I wanted to get back on track, but was having a hard time doing it, and that kind of talk just defeated me. Made me hate myself, made me not want to even try any more.

So I went off Atkins and gained back up to 268 after being down to 220.

I think dieting is hard enough. We feel bad enough about ourselves already. We don't need folks saying "this isn't for you."

My way of looking at it has changed. I believe that we should celebrate EVERY success. And sometimes our successes are simply not gaining the weight back. Sometimes they are in simply continuing to TRY even though we aren't perfect. You may be right that another diet might be a good choice for awhile, but then it might not too. I just don't want to see anyone start to feel like I did, like I wasn't "worthy" to keep on talking and joining in, just because I couldn't get on track for a little while.

Well, here's how I see it.

First of all, the ketosis thing is a little overrated on those pee strips if you ask me. I never turn the little suckers color no matter which brand I try and I still lose the weight.

Second, Atkins never recommended staying on Induction the entire time you are trying to lose your weight. That's what Phase 2 is for. It involves you finding the carb level at which you still continue to lose weight by adding 5 more grams every week - and you can add in fruits like berries at this point along with macademia nuts, sunflower seeds or cottage cheese. If people stick to Induction for 2 weeks and then branch out into Ongoing Weight Loss, they are going to be more likely to stick with the program. I only hear people on this site talking about Induction, never any of the other phases. Frankly, I pretty much skipped Induction when I started Atkins as I always ate macademia nuts and jello and still lost 100 lbs.

Third, this is not a race and it's not a competition. It's a lifelong change to your eating habits. No one is going to do any program perfectly for life and you have to be able to live with your food. If that means eating a piece of fruit or some sugar free Jell-O, well, the sun is still going to come up tomorrow (we hope).

Fourth, when we set ourselves up for perfection, we fail. As human beings, it is not possible to be perfect 100% of the time. Life is what happens while you are making other plans.

Originally Posted by :
First of all, the ketosis thing is a little overrated on those pee strips if you ask me. I never turn the little suckers color no matter which brand I try and I still lose the weight.

I'm not talking about the strips, I'm talking about actual physical ketosis. If you read about them, you'll learn that the strips are inaccurate. If you eat too much protein they turn very dark, and if you drink tons of water your urine will be so dilute that ketones either won't register, or only show a very light pink. The strips were not developed for use by low carbers, but for diabetics looking for a specific medical condition.

Originally Posted by :
And I think telling people they would be better off with a different diet is like saying "you aren't supportive, you are talking the talk, and not walking the walk, go away, we don't need you here." I know Tennessee, that isn't what you mean or want to say. I know that.

No, it isn't, the question is why keep doing something that isn't working? If you're not loosing, getting depressed, feeling like a failure, ill and tired and just flat worn out, why would you keep doing yourself when there are other plans that will allow you (not meaning you personally, btw) to eat off plan on occation and still loose weight well?

I have to say that I really didn't expect some of the hostile and defensive responces I've gotten in this thread. However, if the people I was thinking about when I posted will give the idea some consideration (rather than being angry and\or silent) maybe they'll be happier and more successful in their weight loss efforts.

Tenn

I hope I wasn't "defensive or hostile", Tennessee. Or at least I hope I didn't come across that way. I know I wasn't on the inside, but sometimes things don't come out in print the way you mean them.

I think that dieting of any kind is a mind game. Mind first. You have to be able to set your mind to a certain course of action and you have to be able to focus on that. If something comes along that upsets that focus, it can leave you distracted and confused.

I'm very one track, I'll focus in on doing something and if something distracts me it is very hard to get back my focus. I've thought about and tried changing diets, but it is really hard to do because then I have to refocus my mental energies, retrain myself as to what is allowed and what isn't, and I usually wind up screwing up and not dieting at all. So for me I don't want anything messing with my focus on what I know works for me. Sure, it doesn't always work, because I'm not perfect and there are times when I just want something that isn't on plan. I'm human. I'm hoping and trying to train myself to NOT do that this time. But I may reach that point again. I did before. I hope that when that time comes I don't have anyone encouraging me to give up and try something else, because that I know doesn't work for me.

I think we women tend to be so hard on ourselves already that sometimes even reasonable suggestions can feel like criticism. We are so self critical that we take it that way, even if that isn't what was meant.

I may try the Sonoma Diet, once my book gets here. I will probably come back to Atkins though even if I do try it. I don't like to mess too much with what works.

Originally Posted by :
not meaning you personally

*wink*

Tennessee, I wasn't trying to be hostile either. Please don't take offense.

I can tell you, I've tried every diet plan out there -- Weight Watchers, South Beach, Sugar Busters, Jorge Cruise, Carb Addicts, Cabbage Soup, Scarsdale -- you name it, I tried it. Atkins is the one that worked best for me even if I'm not perfect with it every day.

Didn't you just LOVe the cabbage soup diet?:barf:

This is a good thread- I agree....but the weird thing is- there are SO many things made low carb that we shouldnt slip up- there is candy-bread-even pasta made for this lifestyle...not to mention once you are off induction there are a lot of other things ( like alcohol if you imbibe)that help keep you from feeling deprived-I know some of these things are expensive...but if we kept the cravings and giving in down to a minimum ( like holidays etc...) then the low carb would be affordable- when my whole family was on I made a chocolate cake and frosting usng relatively low carb items...we loved it...and lost weight.

i agree tennessee,i am on a cleaning program right now as a matter of fact to get my system back in kertosis,its hard to do and i feel kinda nauctious,but i hope it helps.

OK Marie - time to share the recipe for the cake and frosting!

I actually have a good chocolate cake recipe, Grandma Lee's 3 minute chocolate cake to be exact!

3 Minute Chocolate Cake
In 2-Cup Pyrex baking dish blend
1/4 C Soy Flour (or almond flour)
1 T Cocoa Powder
1/4 t Baking Powder
5 Packets Splenda

Add the following:
1 T Water
2 T Melted Butter
1 Egg

Blend thoroughly with fork.
Cover with plastic wrap (To vent, cut small slit in center of plastic wrap). Microwave on high 1 minute or until knife comes out clean. Cool a bit; eat warm with whipped cream or cool completely to ice.

2 servings - each with 5.5g Carbs 2g Fiber 1g Sugar

I used the brownie mix from atkins (but tns sounds better!) and then we mixed vanilla protien powder with cream and splenda- plus vanilla extract and whipped it up- the protien powder made it smoother and not so fluffy-it was good- in an atkins kinda way;)

OOOHHHH Tennessee, that sounds yummy. And I can eat almond flour. I can't have the Atkins brownie mix because it has wheat gluten and maltodextrin.