Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2015, 01:23 PM   #1  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default Nuiances of calories in calories out

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/7-com...#axzz3OA3C0MrT

Good article. If weight loss and health was all about calories in calories out, eat less, move more we would have the healthiest global population of all time. Instead we have the most obese and sickest in many ways.

Anyhow great article. And yes calories matter. But they take care of themselves when you are eating nutrient dense, healthy food. Just eating less of the standard American diet (SAD) gets virtually everyone, no where. Except more sick and more obese.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 05:58 PM   #2  
Trying to be in the 160s
 
IanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 4,807

S/C/G: See my siggy ;)

Height: 5'8"

Default

I am starting to read a little more into this and am on the fence a little. I do agree that not all calories are the same. However, I completely disagree that all carbs are bad. Yes, sugar and processed carbs are likely culprits. But unprocessed carbs are great and some fats are better than others which the pro-fatties seem always to ignore.

The best book I have come across on this is called Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes. If some of this could be combined with the literature on inflammation (omega 3/omega 6 ratios), with some good old bro science on exercise (cardio burns fat and muscle, weight training builds muscle in combination with a protein-rich diet) then I would be sold.

Last edited by IanG; 01-07-2015 at 06:02 PM.
IanG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2015, 08:22 PM   #3  
Senior Member
 
freelancemomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,213

S/C/G: 195/145/145

Height: 5'11"

Default

...and what do you say to people like me, who eat a high-carb diet, manage to maintain a low BMI without undue restriction, and have lab values in the "ideal" range? I turn 58 in two days and have (knock on wood) zero health symptoms of any kind. Physically I feel exactly the same as I did at 22. Am I an anomaly? Are the Japanese, who eat a ton of white rice along with their fish and seaweed, also an anomaly?

F.
freelancemomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 08:32 AM   #4  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default

Freelance,

This was about calorie myths but since you asked.

You are the exception not the rule. Over 70% of Americans are overweight or obese. Diabetes type 2 is exploding. It is largely preventable and just decades ago less than 1% suffered from it. Now it is close to 10% and at least 1 out of 3 Americans are pre-diabetic. It is literally bankrupting us. Not to mention the human toll.

Since the first food pyramid came out Americans have radically reduced saturated fat, what I call the good fat as long as it is natural not man-made like Crisco. They have vastly upped carbs, especially grains. Radically cut back on red-meat. Chicken has gone way up.

Basically they have followed government recommendations and it has been a disaster.

Interestingly there is a diabetes explosion in Asia. Especially China, but also Japan, and also exploding in India all grain eating areas. When you look closer at the long lived Japanese they in fact did not eat that much rice and it was all white rice which is more refined but has the anti-nutrients removed. Lots of fish lots of seaweed, strong communities. Actually not that far from a Paleo diet in a lot of ways.

But yes white rice some people do Ok. Sweet potatoes some people do OK.

But obviously most Americans and most of the world are literally dying from grains and carbs. Glad you aren't. But weight is not the end all be all. I've done my research and I feel good natural fats are much MUCH healthier for everyone than non-veggie carbs. I am into health not just weight.

That being said some people not metabolically damaged can do OK on more carbs. I am glad you are one of them. But most people reading this and most people in America do not do well on carbs from non-veggies or we would not have the mess we do now.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 10:24 AM   #5  
High Fat/Low Carb=Happy!
 
ReNew Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 286

Height: 5'9" Age: 50

Default

Freelance, I'd respond with a similar question. What would you say to me, who started developing arthritis in my mid 30s after being a very active, lacto/ovo vegetarian throughout my 20s? Who had total cholesterol in the 300s despite eating LESS than 14g sat fat and 300g of cholesterol for many years? Who had fasting glucose creeping into the 100s despite NEVER, NEVER eating refined carbs!

Let's take some simple facts:

The Inuits, before their culture was infiltrated by the Standard Western (a/k/a SAD) diet, had NO heart disease, no cavities and NO acne. These people lived on a diet that was 90% fat, 10% protein. No veggies, no fruits, no grain. Not anymore. I found a lovely quote from Wikipedia: "Scientists have found that the Inuit people seem to experience more illness and health issues than other groups, especially the women and children of the culture, and especially in the post-modernization period. A possible explanation for this is that the Inuit diet was traditionally high in fat and protein and low in fruits and vegetables. However, this does not explain the increase in health issues after modernization, as the Inuit people eat more fruits and vegetables today than they traditionally did."

Huh, go figure, fruits and veggies aren't making these people beacons of health. BTW, that paragraph has two citations, both come from medical journals.

Anyway, then we have the Japanese, before their culture was infiltrated by the Standard Western (a/k/a SAD) diet, had the same excellent health as the Inuits. You can't say that anymore about them, either. As their culture has become infiltrated by McDs and BK, their rates of heart disease and other degenerative diseases has increased. Yet unlike the Inuits, their traditional diet was more than 70% rice and vegetables.

Then consider numerous populations of Pacific islanders who lived on a diet that consisted of well over 65% coconut, which is more than 90% saturated fat. NO heart disease, normal bodyweight.

Look, I could go on and on if I got ambitious. I think it comes down to this: I do not believe the problem is Carbs or Proteins or Fats, per se. I believe the problem is the vast majority of people are NO LONGER homogenized populations eating traditional diets that their ancestors ate for a few thousand years. Period.

Think about it, how many of us can count more than three or four races, genetically? Heck, I call myself a standard American Heinz. I know my heritage consists of little dabs of German, Dutch, English, Scottish, Irish, Polish and Native American.

Now think about this, science can now track down the fact that people have NEANDERTHAL DNA. It's small, but it's there, sometimes up to 4%. Consider the fact that the difference between us and a chimp is something like 2%. What if, just as a person can inherit their grandmother's hair, their father's eyes and their mother's legs, they also inherit their great x 15 grandmother's pancreas and she was the daughter of a Massai tribesman, a people who had adapted to live on blood, milk and meat with very little need for insulin because their diet was bereft of carbs.

I hope this makes sense. I am a strong believer in the role of genetics in much of both behavior and physical attributes, good and bad, and I believe those genes from our ancient history can reach out and grab us by the nose. If the genes of our ancestors can give us cystic fibrosis, Tay Sachs or sickle cell why can't they also give us intolerance for carbs, protein or fats?

The foods most Westerners eat today bears no resemblance to what anybody's ancestors ate. I'm not saying we have to be primal, frankly I don't WANT most people eating primal and I don't think everyone needs to eat Low Carb/Low Fat/Low Protein/Vegetarian/Whateveratarian. However, I DO THINK that there is NO one size fits all diet, period. I think that some people process carbs with positive health outcomes, think that some people don't. I think some people discover they like and thrive on a vegetarian diet, I think for others it can be health destroying. And I think denying these possibilities, or even mocking them, is being willfully closed minded. I think one of the real keys to health is recognizing "This diet isn't working for me" and trying something else.

Neither vegetarian nor low fat reduced my cholesterol and the lower I reduced my dietary fats the more physical inflammation, pain and depression I lived with. Now that I'm getting more than 65% of my calories from fat my chronic pain has dramatically reduced (I don't expect 100% at my age. I've been living with pain for 20+ years, the simple fact is there is permanent damage done), and my daily low grade depression of the past several years lifted virtually overnight.

Honestly, I wish I'd heard about High Fat/Low Carb and the reasoning/science behind ketogenic eating 20 years ago. If just one person had told me THIS might reduce inflammation in people then I might have saved myself and my husband a lot of sorrow. I've blamed my health problems on everything from environmental toxins, food intolerances (which I do have, but eliminating the foods should have eliminated all problems, right?), adrenal fatigue, systemic candida, leaky gut, frigging FLOURIDE in the water for heaven's sake! You name it, I've blamed it for my health problems and ruthlessly gone about eliminating it or detoxing from it. Never once did the thought occur to me that I just need to eat some bacon and eggs cooked in butter and give up the brown rice and quinoa. Not once.
ReNew Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 01:10 PM   #6  
Senior Member
 
freelancemomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,213

S/C/G: 195/145/145

Height: 5'11"

Default

Good post, Renew. I hope you don't think I was trying to mock your diet. I was just saying that some people (like me) can apparently thrive on a high-carb diet. And I do mean high: I probably have about 300 grams of carbs per day, a lot of them from wheat.

F.
freelancemomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 02:02 PM   #7  
High Fat/Low Carb=Happy!
 
ReNew Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 286

Height: 5'9" Age: 50

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by freelancemomma View Post
Good post, Renew. I hope you don't think I was trying to mock your diet. I was just saying that some people (like me) can apparently thrive on a high-carb diet. And I do mean high: I probably have about 300 grams of carbs per day, a lot of them from wheat.

F.
Not at all, Freelance, I have run across some very opinionated individuals who were really confrontational. What's funny is they attack ideas without any information, just a lot of "well, everybody knows X-Y-Z". Of course, the logical response to that is yes, and 120 years ago doctors didn't believe in washing their hands, that worked out real for everyone they touched, huh?

I've actually been gluten intolerant since before it was a catch phrase. It started with digestive problems and then my weight started creeping up and I couldn't get it under control.

We are a pair of contrasts ... me, when I've had my last meal of the day I will have eaten less than 30 grams of carbs, all from low carb veggies, and I'll have had over 100 grams of fat
ReNew Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 03:01 PM   #8  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default

Freelance I would keep in mind that there are a LOT of potential complications from eating wheat. Well beyond weight. Modern wheat although not a GMO was so altered by the green revolution dwarf variety that very few, maybe a couple out of 100 at most can get by eating it without some significantly bad things. The problem is the bad things can be hard to connect the dots.

But most people are having inflammation and leaky gut from wheat. You don't have to tell me but are you on medications? Do you feel good all the time? Energy throughout the day. Sustained good mental energy.

There is a lot more than weight here. There is also dementia. You have probably heard of Grain Brain by Dr. Perlmutter. 100s of references linking grains to all kinds of behavior, mental, and ultimately dementia problems.

So what I tell people is go gluten free (and this means virtually no processed food and even checking beauty products) for at least 30 days, ideally 60 days.

Do that and in a couple months you might be the biggest non-gluten cheerleader on the planet. I have seen it happen. Oh this gluten stuff is made up, I am fine on wheat. Doing great.

Then after a month or two they are like wow. I felt BADDDDD. I never knew how bad because I never felt good like this before. You have nothing to lose. Literally NOTHING. You can always go back if this doesn't work for you.

But unless you really go virtually no processed food and very careful eating out you will not be gluten free. It is well beyond just not having bread and pasta. Gluten in virtually everything packaged at a supermarket.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 03:43 PM   #9  
Senior Member
 
faiora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 464

S/C/G: 296/273/190

Height: 5'10

Default

I'm eating a relatively low-carb diet, but I'm beginning to find these posts frustrating because overall, they're becoming an attack on people who are choosing a higher-carb option for their diet.

We're all here to support each other in weight loss, with only some general stipulations about not supporting super-low-calorie and fad diets, which can cause major and immediate problems for people.

These posts do not come across as supportive of forum members—they come across as a consistent argument that everyone should be choosing to eat one particular way.
faiora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 03:54 PM   #10  
Larry's Angel
 
JerseyGyrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NW New Jersey But, My Heart's In Pittsburgh!! GO STEELERS & PENGUINS!!!
Posts: 3,060

S/C/G: 245/143/145

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faiora View Post

These posts do not come across as supportive of forum members—they come across as a consistent argument that everyone should be choosing to eat one particular way.
I can't speak for other forum members but, personally, I've never viewed these posts as "a consistent argument" or that anyone is telling anyone else to eat a particular way. I see it as someone who is passionate about what has worked for them and wants to share it. Overzealous, maybe, but....argumentative, no.
JerseyGyrl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 03:57 PM   #11  
Senior Member
 
faiora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 464

S/C/G: 296/273/190

Height: 5'10

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGyrl View Post
I can't speak for other forum members but, personally, I've never viewed these posts as "a consistent argument" or that anyone is telling anyone else to eat a particular way. I see it as someone who is passionate about what has worked for them and wants to share it. Overzealous, maybe, but....argumentative, no.
I don't view any particular post that way. I think in general, the individual posts are fine. But the consistency of posts all on one repetitive topic reads like an argument, over time. (Or self-congratulating)

It reads this way to me even though carb counting/primal/similar are eating plans I agree with.

Last edited by faiora; 01-08-2015 at 03:59 PM. Reason: clarity
faiora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 04:05 PM   #12  
Senior Member
 
freelancemomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,213

S/C/G: 195/145/145

Height: 5'11"

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimalLarry View Post
But most people are having inflammation and leaky gut from wheat. You don't have to tell me but are you on medications? Do you feel good all the time? Energy throughout the day. Sustained good mental energy..
No meds and no symptoms (no headaches, no joint or muscle pains, no digestive pains, no back pains, no anything). Do I feel good all the time? Well, I'm human, so I sometimes feel tired -- especially a few hours after a hard workout -- and sometimes feel sad when life throws me rotten tomatoes. I have enough mental energy to work most evenings and some weekends (my choice -- I enjoy my work more than watching TV).

F.

Last edited by freelancemomma; 01-08-2015 at 04:07 PM.
freelancemomma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 05:55 PM   #13  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default

I'd research into gluten, zonulin. The newest research is pointing to modern wheat being safe for almost no one. But suit yourself. You might be one of the ones that it somehow doesn't effect. But frankly it is one of the blandest things on the planet to me. And as someone insulin resistant, bad news even without the modern changes.
Great you can handle 300 grams a day carbs. Most can't or we wouldn't have the obesity explosion we have now.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 06:02 PM   #14  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default

Faiora,
This is carb counters. And you know if a few people were overweight or obese or diabetic then maybe I wouldn't be so passionate.

But carb intake is literally killing us, our economy, our future. No most of us do NOT get to choose. If you are insulin resistant then you have a carb allergy so to speak. If you have a peanut allergy you don't get to eat peanuts

And yes someone choosing to eat too many carbs does impact me and my child. It is cracking our medical system and whole economy. We literally, collectively, can no longer afford it.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2015, 06:53 PM   #15  
Member
Thread Starter
 
PrimalLarry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin
Posts: 86

S/C/G: 285/165/165

Height: 5'9"

Default

BTW diabetes has devastated 3 generations of my family. Not wanting others to suffer is my main reason for passion. But the economics are real also.
PrimalLarry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:07 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.