As someone who's weight loss took them down the dark, twisted path of anorexia, I can truly tell you how it feels to be "unable" to eat enough. I could tell you how your mind twists your reflection, your body image, the food on your plate, to these huge, balloon-like contortions. I could tell you of the deep, hateful self-loathing, the constant "You're not good enough" over and over in your head.

That's REAL "not-able-to-get-enough-calories" - not "ZOMG I'm like 300 short :o If I eat more will I still loose weight?"

Posts like that really, really pi$$ me off.

Kapolds, thanks for your reply. :) It sounds like you're fabulous in the water, and I think it's wonderful that it makes you feel free! That's awesome!! If only we could all feel free and without judgement!

In the end I didn't mean to upset anyone or make them think I'm trying to get attention or whatever.. I'm honestly not that kind of person. My question was genuine and now I feel like an idiot for asking... :o

I guess I just didn't know/realize how my question would sound I suppose... :( I do enjoy this forum & have learned a lot in my short time here, but am thinking that I probably don't belong here. I was losing weight on my own up to this point so I may as well finish alone... ;)

Good luck to everyone!! :)

Well, Moralia, I dunno. :dunno: Seems to me as though everyone has been trying to tell you it's OK, nothing personal, your questions are welcome.

I'd rather see you stick around! But good luck in any case! :hug:

Jay

Originally Posted by Moralia:
Kapolds, thanks for your reply. :) It sounds like you're fabulous in the water, and I think it's wonderful that it makes you feel free! That's awesome!! If only we could all feel free and without judgement!

In the end I didn't mean to upset anyone or make them think I'm trying to get attention or whatever.. I'm honestly not that kind of person. My question was genuine and now I feel like an idiot for asking... :o

I guess I just didn't know/realize how my question would sound I suppose... :( I do enjoy this forum & have learned a lot in my short time here, but am thinking that I probably don't belong here. I was losing weight on my own up to this point so I may as well finish alone... ;)

Good luck to everyone!! :)

If you don't belong, I don't either...*wink,wink* ;);)

I guess I'm a "featherweight" as well. While I've never struggled with obesity, but I am overweight and very unhappy about it. I think our concerns and issues are just as valid.

So far, I have felt supported and welcome here. I think it's important to remember that every person is entitled to hold their beliefs and opinions, and differences are bound to arise.

When I am eating healthfulll there are some days where I get to the end of the day and I'm thinking...okay, what else can I eat?!?! It doesn't happen often enough LOL! Part of the reason I track on thedailyplate.com is because they use a pie chart to show the balance of carbs/fat/protein. Based on that I'll pick my snack.

I wish I was more consistent with it though. I keep gaining from emotional eating. argh

Don't give up on us yet - I think until someone's been around here a while, they don't understand how little judgement there is here. Not that we don't disagree or even that we do so quietly, it's just that we've learned not to take disagreement or even criticism personally - we stay friends, even after arguments get really heated (the one rule is no name calling, you can disagree and support your argument and tell someone you think they're wrong, but you can't resort to namecalling, not so much as a "poopy head," can be uttered without the moderators intervening (and even that is done politely, and gently).

What is wonderful about this place, and can't be found many other places, is honesty and openness. No one is going to smile at you to your face, and stab you behind your back. We do spill our guts, and sometimes that gets messy. When you spill your guts, sometimes it inspires others to equally freely spill their guts (and if that makes you uncomfortable, it can be a bit disconcerting at first).

But ultimately, it's what makes this place unique and effective - we talk about the "real" stuff (and the real stuff isn't alway purty). Just as in many support groups, being so honest means we have to look at and discuss the bad stuff, not just the stuff that everyone can agree on. The "nice" stuff you can discuss with anyone - even strangers on the streetcorner, but it's the dark parts of yourself that you can only discuss with people who are willing to look at, and talk about the dark parts.

Even in this thread, there was a lot of disagreement (well, actually more counterpoint, "consider this," than "you're wrong" responses), but no one said "you are a terrible person for feeling this way, and you don't belong here because of it."

One thing I think makes it hard, is that in "the real world," many of us deal with a lot of passive aggressive behavoir. It's not "polite" to argue or to disagree..... so often we wonder what people are "really thinking" when they're willing to speak their disagreement outloud. But that's not the "truth" here. If someone tells you what they think - they're probably not sugar-coating it. We rely to much on honesty here, to take it for granted. If you asked us "does this dress make me look fat," we would tell you "well, it's not hiding anything," (and some of us, might even say "yes, it does.")

So, you don't have to worry that anyone here hates you because of what you said - because if that were true, they would have said it. No one was "just trying to be nice," because we don't have the luxury of lying to prevent hurt feelings. We need the truth, because so few people in our lives will give it to us.

I'm not saying that carelessness is a good thing, but we can't care more about politeness than the truth (as we see it), because finding people to lie to you is easy, finding someone who you can trust to always tell you the truth (even, and perhaps especially when it's something you may not want to hear) is a rare gift that is very rare in this world.

When you're used to people around you pretending to agree with you, even when you know they don't, it's really strange to see people being so frank and even blunt. It feels like a hostile attack, when it's just a matter-of-fact "Hmm, I don't think that way, this is the way I think, wow isn't that interesting."

You also need to know that some of us learn best, through an argument. It's not meant hostily, it's just that defending your position, really makes you think about what you believe, and why you believe it. And some of us are even crazier, and sometimes play devil's advocate (that's a particular fault of mine, because I can almost always see both sides of an argument, and often haven't worked through what I believe, if I see anyone argue one extreme too enthusiastically, I tend to write a counterpoint, more as a "but have you thought of it this way," rather than a "you're wrong, and I can prove it."

I think you'll find a niche here, if you are patient, and realize there really are all kinds here. We've just all learned to be maybe a bit "too" honest with our opinions (but I wouldn't have it any other way, because it's so nice not to know that when you ask for an opinion, that you know that you're going to actually get one.)

I am one of those people who finds it very difficult to get enough calories. A lot of my weight gain came a lot from medical conditions, and not making smart choices when I did eat, not all from simply over eating. Now that I am making healthier choices it is sometimes hard to get enough calories and its not fun. I am a recovering anorexic and I have other medical issues. I never ate because I was bored, never ate because of sadness, though I wouldn't want to have to deal with any of that its not how everyone got here. I have had to keep a food journal since I was 15. If I don't I am lucky if I eat 500 calories a day, and its just that my body doesn't get hungry. I don't get hungry like normal people do, never have when I was little I would go days without eating more than a couple bites. It is very possible to not be able to get enough calories, and not be able to find a place to get them from that is good for you and that you want to eat. Sometimes at 8pm I've eaten 900 calories and couldnt put another ounce of food in my body without feeling sick. Its not mental its that I am honestly full and I am not going to stuff myself to sickness.

When I first started it was very hard going from a high in calorie/fat processed food diet to fresh fruit, veggies, lean meats, whole wheat diet.....so it was kind of hard to eat all my daily points. You really don't have to eat a ton to gain weight....just making poor food choices with high calorie & fat contents will do it for some.

I was totally out of my box but I went with it (I cleaned out my entire pantry, fridge & freezer one day and went shopping with a food list from the Core plan with WW :lol:) As I read here & went to my WW meetings I got a bit more comfortable with planning my day the day before & even menu planning for dinner for the week.

Now that it's been a while it is hard to think back when I was in the "OMG I can't seem to eat all my calorie/points!" group....because now you bet I'm eating what I'm allowed ;) Sometimes I catch myself thinking why on earth are people having such a hard time with not eating enough? I always have to remind myself though what it was like for me in the beginning :D

Moralia -

You can do it on your own like you've done before but your very welcome here too. It's really helpful on your "off" days and come get advice or even just a sympathetic "me too". Its nice to know we're not alone, but we wish you the best either way.

For the ones that are thinking about leaving, don't go because of this thread. I have been here for a while and this is honestly the first judgmental thread that I have seen. There are a lot of people on this board that will help with any questions and its a great support group. Ignore the haters and move on *wink* lol

You know, all, sometimes these provocative questions that push buttons are the BEST THING out there. We need to think, to reassess what we are doing, WHY things bother us, and discuss it. If we stop thinking, we stop growing as people. If we discuss our thoughts, we can learn from each other, and learn about ourselves with respect to our personal biases, beliefs and about the limitations that we place on ourselves. Because if we always do what we've always DONE, we'll always get what we've always GOT! And most of us are here because we DON'T want to "get what we've always got"!!! And at times, we ALL post and ruffle feathers. And we hear lots of opinions that we just might not be wanting to hear. So a thick skin is a good thing -- to divorce the emotion from the information -- so to speak...

I love this thread. And I love the discussion. And I hope this forum never, ever changes.

:hug: to ALL of you...

Kira

I LOVE this place - I can't imagine traveling this journey without 3FC.

That being said, forums are not the perfect form of communication. This thread has been - like many others before it - worthwhile. It is informative, thought provoking and emotional.

And - threads like this one remind me that discussions that take place in print are NEVER complete. While we could all sit around and SAY what we have said, and no one would be offended, the same is not true with the printed word.

So, to everyone offended by this thread - step back, breathe - and realize that no one here meant to offend or to suggest that you don't belong here. ALL are welcome, and if you could HEAR the tone of the messages that prickled, you would realize that there is no judgment here - we value your presence, and your opinions.

Don't leave - we want you and we need you!

Off :soap:

Good morning, I had to step away from this yesterday and let all the new responses sink in. First off thanks for all the excellent posts and general debate that my cranky, generalized statement, posted at 1am created...ooops :D

I just want to clear the air on a few things. I NEVER posted this in response to ONE specific thread, I would never in a million years single out one person and say "hey I think your wrong". Not cool and I'm not a total douchebag like that. If you were to check out any of my previous posts I've been nothing but supportive and encouraging of my fellow 3FC members. I truly love it here and owe a lot of my own success with coming here on a daily basis.

I don't want anyone to leave or think of leaving because of one post I made that they don't agree with. Shoot I would have been out of here long ago if that were the case. Maybe in the future I'll think twice about posting at 1am when I'm cranky and wanting to eat half of my pantry but I don't regret my post.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse and get into the whole "not being able to eat enought" discussion. I've got more to add but its pretty much already been said and I'm happy to have a better understanding of why people run into that problem. Now I have to get my butt in the shower so I'm not late for work. Thanks chickies!!!

For me it's easy to not eat enough...You got to be 240 pounds from eating crap right? Crap filled with calories where it's super easy to eat too many calories. WHen you quit eating the calorie filled crap and start eating vegetables and low fat meats sometimes the calories don't add up like they did when you ate burgers and fries and potato chips.

Daniela- Thanks for posting your data- it was very cool. It helped me to see all the "spikes" that must have been discouraging days and how they fit into the overall trend. Also, as a calorie counter, I don't have much guidance other than RDA for how much fat I should be getting, so that helped give me a little perspective.

I posted a thread about not getting enough calories and how it relates to the infamous "starvation mode"...not exactly a post about having trouble getting enough calories, but similarly themed in that it wasn't a post about over-eating. I totally know what you meant and where everyone else on here is coming from, but here's my take anyway:

Say I ate 1000 one day and it was between dinner and bedtime. Maybe I'm hungry, maybe I'm not. The angel on my shoulder is going, well, maybe you should drink a glass of milk or eat a piece of fruit to make sure you're getting all your nutrients. The devil on my other shoulder meanwhile is having an identity crisis: do I treat myself to a cookie? or do I just go to bed because I want to maximize my calorie deficit in an "I would do anything to lose 5lbs even if it's not 'healthy'" kind of way? But what if that throws me into "starvation mode" and I actually gain weight zomg?! Better check 3FC to see if I should eat more or not...

Haha just a little trip inside my head.

Originally Posted by Nigelswife:
For me it's easy to not eat enough...You got to be 240 pounds from eating crap right? Crap filled with calories where it's super easy to eat too many calories. WHen you quit eating the calorie filled crap and start eating vegetables and low fat meats sometimes the calories don't add up like they did when you ate burgers and fries and potato chips.

I sure did get to 240 by eating crap but I also had no clue what the right portion size was when I started my new way of eating. So when I quit eating the crap that doesn't mean I was able to understand portion size. It's also easy to overeat on healthy food if you aren't weighing or measuring. I haven't touched a bite of fast food since Sept 08, for me that's been easy, but I still struggle with portion size. If I didn't weigh or measure my foods I would always give myself extra. Whether it's an extra oz. of fish or chicken or an extra 1/2 oz of nuts I would ALWAY choose more if I didn't weigh my items. Those calories while healthy, they are extra and would add up, hence my lack of understanding of how someone my former size could struggle eating enough calories.

Without counting calories, food journaling, and my digital kitchen scale I wouldn't be where I am today. I understand a busy day and missing a meal and then wondering at 8pm, "I've only had X many calories should I eat more". That happens to me (not often since I plan my meals the day before but it happens). Sometimes I decide to eat something sometimes I don't. But saying it's hard to eat X many calories in one day is a little harder for me to understand. From reading others post I understand a little more. When you 1st start out it is confussing and you want to do a good job, you want to eat healthy, but you might not know how to do that right away. I think the easiest way to get more calories is to eat healthier fats but one must learn what those are. I also lift weights and drink protein shakes after my workouts so I'm getting 300 cal a day from just a shake (sometimes I'd rather have 300 calories of actual food but I know I need the extra protein for the kind of training I'm doing).

I hope that sheds a little more light on my initial post.

One more thing...
We are all here to try to lose weight. We gained weight in different ways (eating crap, eating to much, eating crap & eating to much of it, etc.) I think when I posted this I failed to see that I struggle with eating too much, I like volume, where as others might not they might struggle with eating "healthier foods". It was fairly easy to change my diet and eat healthy, I truly love the food I make, and the additional benefits from eating "clean". I have more energy, my skin has never looked better & I'm more regular (TMI). But there are still days where I want to eat more. I have a few tricks sometimes I make mega salads, I love it, I feel like I'm pigging out but my mega salad only has 500 calories. I know this is something I need to work on. This is turning into a real eye opener even as I type this...so need to look into this more instead of posting pissed off threads LOL