Silly and Novice Question
 

I've been an avid calorie counter for I'd say the last five years and I know the "golden rule" of not going below 1200 calories because it will cause your metabolism to go into starvation mode, but here's my silly question...

Is the 1200 calorie minimum before or after exercise? Are you suppose to net the calories you eat with the calories you burn off during exercise? :?: For example, I currently eat about 1400 calories which is above the minimum, but I also exercise 5-6 days a week and burn approx. 800 calories during each workout. Taking into consideration my workouts, I have a net intake of 600 calories daily. If the 1200 calorie minimum is suppose to be net of exercise, should I technically be eating 2000 calories a day (1200 min. + 800 calories burned) to not go into starvation mode? :shrug: I can't believe I have never thought of this before...

From what I understand, an adult sedentary female burns between 1200-1800 calories / day depending on her metabolic rate and current weight etc. The concept here I think is that to lose weight, you have to end up burning more than you consume. So if you are eating 1400 calories and your body is even just burning 1200 calories/day and you are exercising and burning 800 calories, that would be net (- 400) calories and since it takes 3500 calorie loss to lose 1 lb, it would take you 8.75 days to lose 1 pound.

Because they say 1-2 lbs/ week is healthy, I think your current schedule would work well personally and if you were in the upper range metabolically, it may only take a little over 5 days to lose 1 lb.

Most I have read actually recommend the average person eat 1500 calories/ day and exercise... that sounds like what you do.

What in the world are you doing to burn 800 calories/day though? Wow... I thought my 350 calorie burning runs were good ;)

My understanding is that the 1200 is strictly intake. Exercise doesn't matter--you wouldn't "eat back up" to 1200.

Here's how I handle exercise calories:

My maintenance calorie level = say 1600 per day
Calorie deficit = 400 (to lose 0.8 pound a week)
Intake therefore = 1200 per day

Exercise = say 250 per day
Therefore I could eat 1200+250=1450 and still have 400 cals a day deficit.

The problem with this is that estimates of calories burned are often way off. The test is whether weight loss stays on track over time.

Some folks don't even bother to connect their exercise with their food intake. They just eat what they eat and do their exercise, and let the exercise calories "take care of themselves."

800 cals is a lot to burn on exercise. 30 minutes on an exercise bike gets me maybe 250 if I really work... So, what are you doing? Curious minds want to know...
:D

Jay

I don't bother with those calculations, either. I just try to stay in the 1200 range and let the exercise be gravy. (Best gravy I can have, right now. :D)

I would also love to know how you are burning 800 calories a day exercising. :eek:

Thanks everyone!! I was getting worried thinking that I might not be getting enough calories to sustain my activities. My RMR is roughly 1400 so I basically eat just to cover that.

As for the question regarding my exercise...if depends on the day. M,W,F I usually do the elliptical for at least an hour and 15 minutes. 30-45 minutes of that is HIIT. I also lift weight for about 30-45 minutes after that. On T and TH, I run for about an hour and warm up and cool down for about 15 minutes each in order to prevent my shin splits. On Saturdays, I either go for a run or bike ride outside. I know that most machines overestimate the calorie burn anywhere between 10-20%, but in order to compensate for that, I plug in a weight that is about 35 pounds less than what I weigh now. (basically, my ideal weight)

Thanks again for all you help!

I think you have oversimplified the rule a bit. Think of food as fuel - you should be eating enough calories that you are losing weight consistently at a reasonable rate (generally 1-2 lbs per week). You also need to be eatng enough food that you have the energy and strength for your exercise.

The term "starvation mode" is generally used to indicate that point in which you are consuming too few calores and therefore your body will slow its metabolism to hold onto the weight. So despite how much your exercising or how little your eating, your body will work against you. There is no rule that 1200 calories is the point of starvation, everybody is different and depending on how much you exercise your starvation point could be higher (say 1400 calories or even 1600 calories) and this point can change.

Where the 1200 calorie rule comes from is that the general thought is that 1200 calories is the fewest number of calories you could consume and still meet the minimum necessary nutrients.

Somehow we keep mixing the two concepts 1200 calorie minimum and starvation mode and interprettng this as one single rule which it is not.

lorilove has said it perfectly.

Thanks, lorilove!

Jay

Originally Posted by :
I usually do the elliptical for at least an hour and 15 minutes. 30-45 minutes of that is HIIT. I also lift weight for about 30-45 minutes after that.

Wow. I'm impressed. Most people I know - even the really really fit ones - have a hard time doing a full 45 mins of HIIT ... never mind follow up a session of HIIT with more ss-cardio and weight lifting.

.

Hmm, well then based on lorilove's response (thank you, btw) and the number of calories I eat and the amount of exercise I do, is it possible that I'm in "starvation mode"? I haven't been able to drop a single pound in over 7 months and I keep playing around with the amount of exercise I do, the number of calories I eat, and the ratios of protein, carbs, and fats and nothing seems to be working. I've played within a range of calories between 1000-1550 and I can't seem to find an amount that works. In fact, I've been gradually gaining weight. Is it possible that even 1550 is to low?

You're going to think I'm nuts... but I'd say given that you really are burning 800 cals. a day on exercise, you either need to increase your calories or cut your exercise. I think that indeed it is possible that you are pushing yourself into "starvation mode" with this regimen. Try eating 150 calories more per day than you are now and see what happens--or, eat at the level you're eating now, and decrease your workouts by 150 cals a day. Do this for 2 full weeks, even if your weight goes up a little at first. By the end of 2 weeks, you should be able to see whether anything is changing, and which way it's going.

Just an idea!

Jay

I'll give anything a try. I just need something to work. So since I'm eating at about 1400 now, should I increase to 1550? Or should I go even more to like 1600?

I would start at 1600 you can always go down. Give us some details, how tall are you? What is your age? What is your current weight and target weight.

There are many members that are successful at 1800 and even 2000 calories depending on the details.

I am 5:6", 46 year old and target around `550 calories - that is with exercise 4x per week.

I'm 5'9, 29 years and my current weight is 165. I'm looking to lose about 30 pounds, give or take. I'd be happy anywhere in between 135-140.

As I mentioned before, I currently workout about 5-6 days a week. The 5 days a week is pretty intense where I work off about 800 calories/day. If I decide to do a sixth day it's usually more recreational such as going for a run outside, biking, rollerblading, etc. The 800 calories/day also doesn't include "extra-circular" activities like going for my regular 2-mi walks on my lunch hour, my volleyball league, salsa dancing, etc.

I don't know why, but going from 1400 to 1600 calories kind of freaks me out. I'm terrified that I'm going to gain 10 pounds overnight even though the "rational" part of my brain tells me that it's not possible. I never thought the day would come where I would be worried about not eating enough, rather than too much!! :rofl:

Thanks again for everyone's advice! :hug:

Yes I would say you need to eat more. Go to http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm

This will give you a more reasonable calorie range. I prefer to calcaulate my calories before exercise and then add back my own additional calories for exercise. Most of these tools don't do a good job of estimating exercise calories.

It would not hurt for you to get a HRM to keep track of how many calories you are actually burning.

Lori

thanks again for everyone's advice. it's been almost a week since i increased my intake by about 150 calories and i'm up two pounds already. :stress: i know i should give it at least two weeks, but any move in the wrong direction is pretty heart breaking to me at this point. every inclination in me wants to drop calories immediately, but i know i should stick it out at least another week...i just hope my brain can win out over my heart.

on a side note, lorilove mentioned i should get a hrm to see how many calories i'm actually burning. i've been contemplating getting one, but i don't know how they exactly work. Does it give you an actual read out of what you burned or do you have to calculate it based on your hr? i also have a ridiculously low resting hr (45)...would the results be skewed because of that?

I read in a couple different books that you should vary your calories day to day so that your body doesnt adapt. Example one day 1200cal, then
1500cal, then 1200cal then 1800cal etc... Hope this helps.

stuck

Originally Posted by stuck:
I read in a couple different books that you should vary your calories day to day so that your body doesnt adapt. Example one day 1200cal, then
1500cal, then 1200cal then 1800cal etc... Hope this helps.

stuck

I have read this also but don't know if it really works. Hopefully it does and I'll be able to see some results because I am fairly inconsistent in my daily calorie intake, some days I'm around 900, most I'm around 1200-1400.

What you're talking bout there is called calorie cycling. BUT. It's not done the way you describe it necessarily. You take your weekly total of calories and divide it up over the course of the week. So if your goal is 1500 cals a day, then that would be 10,500 cals a week.

So you might eat 1300 cals one day, then 1700 cals the next, then 1500 cals the next, then back down to 1300 cals, and so on. But at the end of hte week you've STILL only eaten the 10,500 cals - for an average of 1500 a day.

YOu have to plan it out ahead of time and if you're going to calorie cycle, you have to be VERY careful not to get into the mindset of "it's ok if I eat a few more cals today because it's a low day anyway, and I'll make up for it tomorrow" ... that's what makes calorie cycling not work for me.

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I've stalled and gained weight before too. I ended up having to up my calories by about 300 a day before I started losing again

:eek: 300 calories?!?! oh my goodness! that seems like a lot. i guess that makes we wonder, how do you know whether you need to cut calories to start losing weight or increase them? i would never even imagine that adding that many calories to my diet would help me start losing weight...my first instinct would be to cut them. how do you know which is the correct solution? i've varied my calorie intake between 1000-1500 calories over the last seven months and nothing has worked. i don't know whether the right answer is to drastically cut them or drastically increase them. :?:
right now, i've increased my intake to 1600 calories and i've gained two pounds. how do i know that i'm going in the right direction?

ok, now i'm up 5 pounds!! :cry: i have no idea what i'm doing wrong!!

Are you getting in enough water? Protein? Have you had your thyroid checked? I was (at one point) gaining 5lbs per month on 1300 calories per day because my thyroid was messed up. My dr didnt believe me at first then he tested me and viola'!!!!

For what period of time have you been gaining weight? I'm wondering if you should just stick with what you were doing and see if things change.
IMO the "starvation mode" idea is over-emphasized. You should absolutely eat a reasonable minimum number of calories each day, of course. Especially because you are working out quite a bit.
But think about it - people with anorexia, people on liquid diets, people who had bariatric surgery - these are all people who consume very little calories and lose plenty of weight.
I'm not suggesting these kinds of extreme measures at all. My point is that eating more may not be the answer, maybe it's just that your body is being weird, and you might want to wait out the weirdness for a few weeks before making changes.
Just my two cents!!! :)

Also - ditto on the thyroid check - I have that issue myself as well.

Also keep in mind that an actual pound of fat = 3500 calories.

It sounds like you might be at a pretty decent weight for your height and with the amount of exercise you are getting maybe you are just at the optimal weight for your height and build? Do you have a body fat scale? Maybe you are just aren't losing weight but gaining muscle? From past experience I've had doctors tell me to stop losing weight at 160 because seriously they could count my ribs.

I've been gaining weight for at least the last year and half, if not longer. For the last seven months, my weight has been relatively stable, but in the last two weeks, I've jumped up at least 5 pounds and the scale is still climbing. Throughout the entire weight gain (35 pounds and counting) it's never been steady. My weight will be stable for a couple of months and then, inexplicable, I'll gain like 5 pounds over a few days and it sticks. No matter what I do, no matter how much I exercise or how little I eat, it won't budge. I'll stay at that weight for another month or two, and then again, inexplicable, it will just jump up another 5 pounds. I know that in order to gain 5 pounds over a week, I'll have to consume an extra 17,500, which know I've never done, but yet the weight still sticks.
I starting off by eating 1000-1200 calories and exercising close to 2 hours a day (cardio and weights) 5 days a week. At that point, it was pretty clear I wasn't getting enough calories, but I was still gaining weight. I slowly started to decrease the exercise and increase the calories, but I still gained weight. Right now, I'm eating roughly 1600 calories and working out about 1 & 1/2 hours, 5 days a week. I had my metabolism tested and know that my RMR is 1400. With an RMR of 1400 and a calorie intake of 1600, even without exercise I shouldn't be gaining weight!!
I've been to all the doctors (6 of them) and had all the tests run and nothing is wrong with me. They've all just looked at me, shrugged their shoulders and said give it time. It's been almost two years...how much more time needs to pass and how much more weight do I need to gain before any of them realize that there might be something wrong with me?!?
I'm sorry for the partial vent, but I've literally been crying my eyes out every morning because it seems that the harder I try, the more I fail. I literally think I'm starting to fall into a depression because of this and it's absolutely starting to destroy my life.
Thanks for listening...

Are you sure there's nothing going on with your thyroid? It might be worth getting tested again. There's some disagreement about exactly what TSH number indicates an underactive thyroid, and I know there are some doctors who see a number that's in that zone and say it's fine. (It used to be that a TSH level of .5 - 5 was considered normal. That range has been narrowed down to .3 - 3.) It certainly seems possible that you could have a mild thyroid issue that hasn't been diagnosed, and that's what's going on.

That sounds really frustrating. I'd want to vent also.

Oh hun, you must be so frustrated! I can't imagine! Obviously you've explored many options and have no real answers.
The only thing I can think of that hasn't been addressed (I don't think) is whether you are accurately counting your calories. I.e., measuring, weighing, etc. But chances are, you've already thought of that.
Perhaps you could go back to some of those doctors and let them know...?

I read where certain medications can cause people to get up in the middle of the night and eat--and they have no memory of it the next morning.

No kidding! I know someone who does this--her housemate has observed her.

Not saying that this is what's happening to you--but maybe you ought to tape shut some of the food containers overnight or otherwise arrange them so you'll know...

Otherwise, I'd say keep your calories steady at 1350 per day for a week and watch what happens. Don't panic.

Jay

Edited to add: If most of your calories are carbs, you could put on weight even if the level of cals seems low...

I know how frustrating this is for you! I went through a similar deal (or should I say ordeal). I know drs. (and everybody else) kind of roll their eyes and say "well, if that's all you're eating, and you're exercising that much, you should be losing weight". Gaah, enough to want to scream!

Keep in mind that everyone is different and I am quite a bit older than you so, obviously, not all the same rules are going to apply but what ended up being the problem for me was not so much the number of calories but where those calories were coming from. I was drinking gallons of stuff with artificial sweeteners and 99% of my food was highly processed convenience food. As soon as I ditched the artificial sweeteners and went heavy on the whole foods things turned right around. Again, everyone is different and there are zillions of posts from people who can lose steadily without giving up their Crystal Light and can still have a slice of pizza for lunch now and then, but might be something to think about.

Hang in there, you CAN figure this out! :hug:

I thought about that too. I noticed I was drinking a lot of diet coke, putting Splenda in everything from coffee to oatmeal to cottage cheese and I was eating frozen meals for lunch and dinner. So I quit drinking diet coke :cry:, cut out 99% of my splenda use, and started making my own lunches and dinners. The dramatic effects...I gained 3 pounds.
Although I noticed that when I stopped drinking diet soda, my sugar cravings decreased, it didn't do much to help my waistline.

I'd be so mad. I sure don't have any answers, just that I sympathize with you. I started really working out this spring and still haven't lost a pound. At first I thought it was because I was turning fat into muscle. Than I decided it must be because I was eating poorly. That's when I started keeping my food diary and realized I eat pretty healthy naturally. I've started really counting calories and keeping it at around 1500 a day, but I also have a doctors appointment for Tuesday. I'm heavy enough that my weight poses real risks, so I figure it's time to bring my doctor into the equation.

At your height and weight, you are within the normal BMI range - near the high end, but that may be due to muscle mass. And clearly, you are able to maintain a high level of activity. It doesn't sound like there is an endocrine problem at work here, unless you're experiencing symptoms you haven't told us about. Gaining 30 lbs. over the course of 2 years is not so extreme as disappointing as it may feel. When I began having thyroid problems my weight could fluctuate by 10 lbs. in a single week.

I agree with the poster that suggested getting a BF analysis. You may simply not have much excess body fat to lose.

You wrote "no matter how much I exercise or how little I eat" you can't lose weight. This doesn't sound like a healthy approach to weight management IMHO. Perhaps it's time to shift the focus to your health for a while? It sounds like you're active and fit and it would be sad if you weren't able to enjoy that.

I hope I don't sound preachy - I apologize if I do!

I understand your frustration I have gained 50 pounds in 4 years and I feel like i have been dieting 95% of the time.... 4 doctors have checked my thyroid and written me off. Have you looked into "estrogen dominance"? I am starting to thinK that is my problem because of my other symtoms.... google it maybe you have the symptoms too?

Hi everyone!!
Thanks again for everyone's support and advice! :hug: Right now, my body feels like one big mystery and I'm trying to figure out what is causing me to gain weight when, under normal circumstances, I should be losing at least 1-2 pounds a week.

hmtklein: I've never heard of estrogen dominance...I'll definitely look into it. Thanks!

To answer a few questions and to put a few things into context...I realize that 30 pounds (actually now closer to 35) over the last two years doesn't seem like a lot of weight to gain, but the way I put it on and under the circumstances in which I gained it, it's very suspicious and extremely frustrating. I never gained the weight gradually, it was in "chunks." I would stay at a certain weight for a month or two and no matter how hard I exercised or how well I ate, it would not budge. Then, I would go out to dinner or to a party, overindulge for one night and I'd gain 5 pounds. Now I know what most of you are thinking...that it was just water weight/bloating and that no one could gain 5 pounds in one night, but that's exactly what happened. No matter how much water I drank, exercised, watched my diet, the weight stuck and it stayed stuck until the next time my body decided to gain a "chuck of weight." It just seems that there is NO correlation between my calorie input and output. I can work off a million calories, but the second I eat an extra 500 calories, I put on 5 pounds.
At first I thought I was eating too few calories so I started increasing my calories and decreasing my exercise. For a while, my weight didn't budge, so I slowly kept increasing my calories. Right now, I'm eating about 1600 calories, my RMR is about 1400, I'm working about an hour and half, five days a week...and I'm starting to slowly gain weight...again, the math just isn't working.
To touch on two things 3Beans said about endocrine problems....I actually do have ALL the symptoms of PCOS and an underactive thyroid, but I've had the tests done, and apparently I'm fine. Also my weight does fluctuate by as much as 10 lbs within any given week, but when I say I've gained 35 pounds, I mean the upper end of my "range" has increased by 35 pounds.

Again, thanks for listening and thanks for all the support!!

My aunt had that same problem. She started out something simple like counting calories at 1300 calories a day with a little exercise and kept switching things around. Up the calories, down calories, more exercise, etc. Her weight never budged (She's about 5'-6" and 190 lbs) I don't know if it would help you or not, but here is what she did.

8 Day cleanse/fast- lost 6 pounds ( I think it was the lemonade diet) then
Started eating unprocessed foods and watching her calories then lost another 20+ lbs.

It's hard for me to understand, but it's kind of like it reset her system. I didn't have that same problem when I started eating right, but no matter what she tried her body wouldn't budge previously, and this helped.

I agree that it could be the foods you are eating. In general you may want to cut out all artificial sweetners (as I posted somewhere else diet soda has been known to increase weight gain) because of their effect on the pancreas, eat only whole foods (meaning unprocessed or less processed), and stick to foods that have a low Glycemic Index. Oatmeal, although healthy fiber wise, converts to sugar incredibly quickly and can really do a number on your insulin.

Perhaps look at some of the more protein and *whole* -based food diet guidelines. I suggest Dr. Weil and Dr. Perricone...amazing stuff!

GOOD LUCK!

hmm, lemonade diet...i've never heard of it. does anyone know what it consists of?