Counting points irks me
 

Hi Everyone!

I’m new here. I just posted on the introduce yourself thread

I know counting points for a lot of people works wonderfully….including my DH! But…..being a math person (accounting background) it just irks me. I feel like I’m playing games…..”I can eat this 100 calorie yogurt for 1 point” etc. Calories feel much more honest to me. Does anyone else feel the same way? TIA.

I tried Flex and couldn't relate to what a point is. I now know it's 50 calories roughly but it makes me feel trapped especially when I was running out of them in a day.

I'm happy with what I'm doing now.

I've never counted "points" and wouldn't know how to begin trying to do that. Calories are very straightforward and simple...I can eat anything, it's easy to know what I am eating and what it is "worth" and it's the way that works for me.

I am kind of a math person too. I would rather count calories. With all the calorie information on packages and looking up calories on the internet, calorie counting has never been easier. I feel like I am being more honest about what I am eating, counting calories, which is what I am doing now. I liked the old exchange program with WW better than the new point system. The exchange program made me eat all the food groups. With the points program milk and fruit rarely made it to my daily list.


http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt...TKO/weight.png

I am a calorie counter ,flexible and best of all it is free.

Oh, and :welcome: , Topaz!

I completely agree--points just don't make sense to me. Calories do (as do the percentages of fat, protein, fiber and carbs).

Thank you SoulBliss!

I never understood the points either. Though it does work for some. Very well in fact. But I think it would just annoy me as well. How can sooo many different items be 1 point? What if something is 25 calories or 45 calories, they're both the same 1 point. Huh? It would drive me crazy. I'm too anal for that.

I'll stick with my calorie counting. I find it much more accurate and easier to deal with. Even when I guesstimate something, it still seems more precise then points.

Welcome to the forum and 3FC Topaz. You're gonna love it here. Lots of info and helpful, supportive people. And topaz is my birthstone. I love it. :)

I had greater success with counting points than calories. With calories, I was always obsessing over small calorie differences, was my apple 60 calories or 85, and I was always rechecking my math. I wouldn't make the best food choices, instead looking for the lowest calorie foods whether they were nutrient dense or not. If I went over my calorie goal for the day, even by just a few calories, I felt like I had failed, and would become easily frustrated.

But, then again, I am unable to be "responsibly anal." Points were a way to remind me not to sweat the small stuff. I think there's alot of individual personality and physiology difference that determines to what degree you have to monitor your intake.

I recently found that South Beach style eating really decreases my appetite, and I've been able to lose weight without counting anything. Unfortunately, my PMS/TOM hunger is still out of control, so in one week, I can easily undo all the progress I've made the rest of the month. I've pointed out my PMS difficulties to doctors before, but none had a solution until I saw a weight management doctor (a woman, which I think is the real difference) who said stacking my birth control pills (to eliminate or shorten periods) might very well give me binge control. Hm, who new?

I think I'll give it a try, and count calories or points during the "red zone" week and see if that helps. But as long as I'm losing well, I don't feel counting to be necessary. Though, I'm sure I will probably have to switch to more precise calorie counting the closer I am to goal.

Obviously, the only way to lose weight is to shift the calorie balance (intake less, output more), but counting isn't the only "honest" way to go about it. Whatever works that you can live with in the long term is what's best for you. The scale will tell you if you're method isn't working.

Kaploids for me the calorie counting IS an estimate. I don't agonize whether I'm eating a medium apple or a large apple. I ALWAYS estimate UP. So for me it's always gonna be a large apple. This way there's no way to go over and I have a tiny bit of wiggle room. Same goes with veggies, 1 cup or 1 1/2 cups - I'll always estimate it at 1 1/2 cups. That's what works for me. I don't feel the need to be 100% precise. I think that would be waaaay to difficult for me, it WOULD annoy me and I don't think I would stick with it.

I've tried the WW Points system and it has worked well for me in the past (40 lbs lost, BUT 50 gained back). I did notice though, that I wasn't eating a "healty" diet when I was counting points.

I've recently started calorie counting and I'm definitely a believer! If you use a computer program to keep track of your calories (FitDay, NutriDiary, CalorieKing) then it makes it much, much easier (and for me, fun!). The one I use also tells you how many grams of fat, protein and carbs you should eat each day to maintain a healthy balance. Like yesterday for instance, the nutrition information in my diary showed that I was low on proteins for the day, so I made sure my dinner was more protein heavy and less carbs.

Plus when you're counting calories, you really tend to go more for fruits and vegetables since they're lower in calories.

My goal is not only to lose weight, but to maintain a healthy lifestyle and teach my son to do the same. Calorie counting works for me!

Yeah, I have done WW in the past (several times actually) and I would always find myself trying to pack in the most food for the fewest points and try and "game" the system so I could pack lots of food in (needless to say it always failed for me and I only ever succeeded in cheating myself).

But it just IRRITATED me. The whole "pointing" concept still irks me too. Calorie counting I find *for me* to be so much more straightfoward and simple. And there is no wiggle room for me to try and "game" more of the same food in for less calories. Doesn't work like that. And as a result I don't cheat myself out of success. :)

Hi Everyone,

Thank you for the responses!

Rockin Robin- your before and after pictures are amazing!!

Anne- my DH and I were just talking about this……fruits and veggies being low calorie. _But_ on 1200 calories a day I just don’t wana use any on fruit. I guess I don’t like it that much. We just came back from Panera and the side of fruit was 175 cals. I’ll eat it occasionally….but I’m just not a fruit fan I guess.

Charlotte- _Exactly_ I would try and “game” the system…..and at 15 or 30 lbs from goal (I’m not sure yet) I can game myself right out of weight loss. My DH can eat all his points in 80 calorie (1 point) bran fat free muffins and still lose. I sure can’t! Not that we should be eating all our points in muffins…..but its been known to happen at Sweet Tomatoes (home of the best bran fat free muffin ever!)

Thats the drawback I think with points. Using your 1 point muffins as an example if I'm allowed 30 points that would give me 2,400 calories. That is a lot and I wouldn't lose any weight. Right now I eat about 1,400 and add on for exercise so I usualy end up at around 1,600-1,700 to lose the 2lbs per week that is supposed to be healthy. Of course that's not how the system was designed to work but people try it anyway!

Now of course WW does suggest loosely that you eat so many veggies etc, but if you ask me the program doesn't focus on that enough. Sure there is the CORE program, but that's rough to stick to long term.

WW does work I've lost 40lbs with it or more in the past, but the problem was I was still eatting too much empty calories that encouraged cravings. (100 calories packs, lean pockets etc etc)

Now I track calories with Myfooddiary, which also helps be track the percentages of what kind of foods go into my mouth and helps encorage healthier choices.

What I did like about the points program is it does really help you see if something is WORTH eatting. For example If I only have 25 points do I really want to waste 10 of those on chicken nuggets?

In the end I like the closer calculations that calorie counting gives me and hey it's a heck of a lot cheaper then WWmeetings!

I follow the Weight Watchers calorie counting. No way could I ever do the points- I would be off the deep end, trying to figure it all out. No thanks, but best of luck to anyone that is doing it! :carrot:

I did points after my first baby, and I was wildly successful. This time, it just did not work. I tried to work the system, and while I was very good at beating the points, I was not losing weight.

I got very sick of taking my points counter everywhere.

The thing I like best about using calorie-count.com is that I can see my composite percentage of how I ate that day. The other day, I was wicked low on fiber, and I was starving in the afternoon. I like the detail of counting calories.

Points are just short hand for calories anyway, and since I know how to add, I just could not justify paying them to do it for me.

I guess I don't understand what is so annoying or confusing about different approaches being available and possibly effective. The food exchange program, calorie counting, point counting, CORE, South Beach (and every other program that has been or will be developed) has advantages and disadvantages, and while some are less logically and nutritionally sound, there are certainly going to be some people more suited to use one program over another. I don't think there's anything mysterious in that.

I can certainly understand prefering one method over another, but I don't see the point in being annoyed at the existence of a program you don't understand or like, especially when it isn't dangerous or incompatible with healthy choices. So you've determined it's not for you, big woop. If you like one way better (whether you have a "good" or logical reason for the preference or not) and it's working for you, then that's wonderful. The "best" way is what works best for you. If you don't understand why a different way works for someone else, why would this annoy you?

Well Kaplods, I've gotta ask you this - why does it annoy you, as you appear to be and if you're not then I apologize - if someone else is annoyed by the concept of counting points?

I don't think that anyone is annoyed that a particular program exisits as you said some were. We were just agreeing with the original poster in that yes, we could see where counting points could be considered annoying. Like I said in my original answer to the poster that many people like and are successful using WW. But yup, to ME and apparently to others as well, I'd find it annoying. This is after all the CALORIE COUNTERS forum so chances are you're going to find people that are , well ummm .... yeah, counting calories. Meaning that's THEIR preference.

Many people would find calorie counting annoying - and that's okay - it's their opinions and they're entitled to it. One persons annoyance is another persons preference.

Big woop. I mean, what's that all about?

Lol I find calorie counting annoying and I do it, because I found it harder to do the points conversions and sometimes felt the points were unfair for what I considered a healthier option (it was a while ago when i did it). To each his own I say, I am doing calorie counting even though I am not fond of it because its the best fit for me! If I could find the one thing that would work for my mom I would support her fully in it.

I wasn't annoyed or bothered, and the big woop I suppose could have been taken as nasty sarcasm, but it wasn't meant that way. Just as I may have mistaken the intended tone of some of the posts, as some word choices like irk and debate, and not getting the point seem to imply more than personal preference, but judgement upon the program itself and people who choose it. It seems a lot like saying "Estimating to the nearest tenth really irks me, it just doesn't make as much sense as rounding to the nearest thousandth". Obviously that's a gross oversimplification, but to me, the advantages and disadvantages of each seem rather obvious, being familiar with both (and if you're not, how can you compare) and my question was more literally, what is so confusing or annoying about it, beyond personal preference?

I'm not sure anyone here is really "annoyed" at the existence of Points. When I said my coworker and I had a little "debate," I meant just that--not a throw down screaming match or anything. We were simply discussing why we were each comfortable with something different than the other; neither of us tried to convince the other they were "wrong." Just because I personally don't "get" the idea of Points doesn't mean they don't work wonderfully for some others. It is nothing but personal preference, and that's all this thread is about. You seem more annoyed with the people who are annoyed than anyone who was annoyed in the first place :dizzy:

This is merely a discussion among calorie counters (here in the "Calorie Counters" section of the forum) about why we think counting calories makes more sense than counting Points. I'm sure there have been similar dicussions in the South Beach section about why South Beach is better than Atkins (and vice versa) or in the exercise section about why strength training is better than cardio (and vice versa). Again, all personal preferences, not finger pointing or condemning those who choose differently :^:

I'm not annoyed by the existence of Points, but I personally just can't fathom why someone would want to pay to count Points rather than count calories for free. Points are just a roundabout, less accurate way of counting calories! Plus it's not as easy to see (as someone said above) the fiber intake the fat/protein/carb ratio etc. I guess I don't see Points as having any advantages.

I bought the weight watcher books and point scale off of ebay and did it for a few months last year (I have had several friends who had excellent success with WW, and I was motivated by that). It wasn't so bad at first, but then I began to misplace my sliding points counter. That's me... I'm always losing stuff! That's what did me in. I'm a calorie counter now (I use fitday), but I still keep in mind some WW principles (which are basic weight loss principles) that it's not just calories that count but fat and fiber content are important as well. So, I do try to eat clean and wholesome foods that are relatively low in fat, high in fiber, etc. etc. I know most calorie counters are also striving to eat healthfully while counting calories, but there are some who believe that 1500 calories of junk or empty calories is equal to 1500 calories of veggies, lean protein, etc.

So, while calorie counting works better for me, I do think WW is a great program. I have many, many friends who have gotten their weight problems under control using it. They will always count points even when they've reached goal, much like calorie counters will always count calories.

Well,

Others have already said it (and eloquently I might add) My original post said that counting points irks _me_. I never said I was annoyed the WW program existed. My post also said counting points works great for my DH. I’m very happy he’s on it.

I never said the WW program was confusing nor did I say I didn’t understand why the program works for some people. _In my experience_, being close to goal I find I eat a lot of high calorie foods within my points and don’t lose.

Therefore counting points _for me_ irks me because it does not accomplish what I want it to accomplish….weight loss.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I agree, counting points annoyed me for ME to do it. It doesn't annoy me that other people do it! But I would get soooo annoyed when I was trying so hard to make healthy choices but that didn't neccessarily pay off in points. Like white rice and brown rice are the same points for the same amounts. Yet, brown rice is the healthy choice. And I can't remember precisely but there were many times I chose a processed snacky item over a healthier one because it was less points or more volume for the points. That didn't make me feel good. I realize I *could* have made the healthier choices for myself, it just didn't seem like there was incentive built in to the point system.

Emotional content just doesn't come accross in a post, and there's just nothing you can do about that. Maybe I took some posts too literally, as I just couldn't get what there wasn't to get, as both plans, to me seem pretty easy to understand, fairly straight foward with most of the same advantages and disadvantages. And while there are a few distinctions, they didn't seem big enough to justify a condemnation of the point system (which I mistakenly took some of the arguments as).

I am currently counting WW points...well, actually I am counting WW points and counting calories (thus being here on the counting calories thread) at the same time as a little experiment for myself. I have seen a few different threads on here regarding counting calories as opposed to counting points and I wanted to see just where they come in, in relation to each other every day. So far (after one day...lol!) my points came in two lower than my allotted and the calories came in just about on target. Pretty close if you ask me.

I believe the main difference is that calculating the points forces you to consider the fat content as well - you need to use more points for higher fat content foods. This isn't necessary for someone who counts calories and keeps their fat content below a certain percentage. But there are plenty of people who strictly count calories without taking the other factors into consideration and WW points may just work better for them. Who knows? I'm all about experimenting and tweaking what works for ME! even if it turns out to be a combination of plans.

Cris

33tekfan, with me and countng calories it's EXACTLY the opposite of how you take it.

Since I DO count calories, I try to get the most food (volume) for my money so to speak. Well the most food for my allotment. So high fat foods is simply out of the question. I would never waste my calories on fatty, greasy foods - you get sooo much less of it. I'm also looking for the highest nutritional value at the same time. So out goes all the junk and sugary stuff.

Yay for veggies!!!!

Hey Cris, Your post triggered an epiphany of sorts. I realize now what had me going down such a different mental path than the thread was leading. TWEAKING! When something doesn't work for me (whether it's been working for others or not), I don't get irritated, I TWEAK! Sometimes that means choosing another existing plan, sometimes that means making a slight variation to the current plan, and sometimes it means trying to go in a completely new direction. My biggest blind spot has been my TOM issue. I've always tried to find a plan that works all month long. I've finally, realized (ok, it's taken me 30 years to figure this out, so maybe I'm not as swift as I'd like to believe) that I may have to take a completely different approach during my binge-prone week. Maybe even to the extent of needed to switch to meal replacement shakes or bars that week (actually, I'd be willing to go to the extent of being locked in a bare room for the week, but hubby says he won't be a party to that).

Robin - Thanks for your response but that isn't necessarily how I "take it". I said that many people count strictly their calories and don't take fat into consideration and that's why counting points MAY work better for them. I was just trying to give more info since some comments on the thread have been along the lines of "I don't understand why someone would count points". I too try to get as much bang for my buck as I can for my daily allowance. That's why I am doing this comparison, with the knowledge that *everything* needs to be taken into consideration not just straight calories. There are calorie counters out there who have very high daily fat percentages and wonder why they are hungry all the time or not losing weight as they should. I agree that calorie counting may be easier than points, but I need to see that for myself, and perhaps tweak like I said earlier.

Colleen - Yup. It's all about finding what works individually. I too have a VERY hard time with TOM. Never considered being locked in a bare room all week. I'll have to ask DH what he thinks - he might like the idea given my PMS at times!! LOL!

Good day, everyone!

Cris

I've actually counted both calories and WW points. I count points because the number of calories I'd be required to eat is kind of intimidating to me and I like counting little numbers rather than big nimbers. I started counting calories (using fitday) because I was curious about exactly how many calories I was eating and wanted to figure out exactly what I was eating nutrion wise. They've both benefited me. With WW I've lost a significant amount of weight and fitday showed be that I wasn't getting all of the nutrients I need (though I am eating a good proportion of fats/carbs/protein), so I've been sure to take my multivitamin. As far as making sure you fruit/veggies in your diet, most veggies are points free, so I should be getting plenty of those either way, though I will admit fruit does fall by the wayside, I don't know why. I think both methods are good, you just have to do what works for you

heh, you and Robin are saying the same thing, just from different sides, really. You can do it with Points OR with calories. Some people eat higher fat foods and end up having not a lot of food for their Points because high-fat means more Points per food. But the same goes with calories. Higher fat foods are typically higher in calories, so again, if you're eating high-fat foods, you're not getting as much food for your calorie allotment (just like with the Points allotment).

1 gram of fat = 9 calories, whereas 1g protein or carbs = 4 calories. You get less food for both you Points OR calories when they are high in fat--that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

But seeing 33tek and Robin have basically the same argument for Points vs. calories just goes to reiterate that different approaches work for different people.

Just as I could easily cram my 2000 calories a day with peanut butter cups and cheesecake, so, too, could someone eat their 35 Points worth of the same. Making healthier choices helps everyone, Point-counters and calorie-counters alike, to get more bang for their (food) buck.

I was going to do WW since my sister did really well counting points, but I didn't because I don't care for thier website and I wanted to do it online. I'm really glad I didn't because the amount of points I would have started out would have been approx. 1350 calories. I still eat more than that (1400 to 1500 cals) and I'm almost to my goal! So I'm able to eat more because my "program" was not put together by an "expert."

That being said, I think everyone is different and they need to find what works for them. There are many plans out there that I could never live with, but other people do and succeed. It's already been said, but there are disadvantages and advantages to every weight loss program, you just have to find what is the best fit for you.

Yup, that's it exactly. Thanks Jilly. ;)

Some calorie counters only count calories and some WW point counters only count the points. I have found though on this site, that most, certainly not all, but most really do try to pack in as much nutritional punch as they can for either their calories - or their points.