I feel guilty
 

I feel guilty when I see the threads about binging or going off the diet. I remember how I felt on the low-calorie diets, and how that hunger was just impossible to ignore. And I remember how awful I felt when I "failed" at the diet.

I feel guilty when I see those threads because I have it so easy now. I never in a million years could have believed that I could lose weight and still eat delicious food and stay satisfied rather than hungry all the time.

I feel guilty that I'm losing weight in such an easy, pain-free way, when people are out there who are struggling the way I used to and going through the pain I used to go through.

Does anyone else feel guilty?

No, I don't feel guilty - because I'm not hiding any "secret" from anyone. I share with anyone who asks (and quite a few who don't).

I'm not losing fast for a lot of reasons, but I am losing "easy." I don't feel like I'm starving, or even that I'm on a "diet." I'm just living my life in the way that works better for me than I once did.

You can't make anyone learn what you've learned, or be in life where you are. You might as well feel guilty for having a desk job when other people have to work manual labor. Or feeling guilty that you're not in jail or that you don't have a terminal illness - because some people are and do.

Feeling compassion for those in a different situation is something else. I feel compassion for many folks who don't have the skills, knowledge, or advantages that I have. The best I can do is communicate what I've learned when I can (and when it's appropriate to do so).

Thanks, Kaplods, that's a good way of seeing things! I don't feel so guilty now. :) I found the magic key, and I hope someday others who are struggling will find it, too.

Instead of feeling quilty, why don't you share the magic key?

Because I'm scared I'll make people angry if I try to offer advice! I won't mind telling them how I did it, though if they ask me, once I've lost all my excess weight, I mean.

Originally Posted by 2FatGranny:
Instead of feeling quilty, why don't you share the magic key?

I can give you a hint....look at the name of the forum this is posted under:)

I think I'm one of the people you probably feel sorry for. ;) I have my ups and downs, but I'm a food addict and it's not easy for me. I was very good from Halloween until a few days ago and then, in 3 days, I put on 5 lbs. (some of which is probably water). I'm trying to be back on track today, but your post caught my eye. I WISH I could find something that takes that struggle away but I haven't found anything. I count calories and that has really worked for me and it's good overall, but it doesn't really seem easy.

I can't do Atkins. I've tried it before but it gave me a massive headache. I now suffer from chronic daily migraines so if I do something like that, I'll be a complete mess....and I have 2 kids and a hubby that depend on me.

I'm going to keep plugging along, but my point is that even though I know about Atkins and it works great for many, not everyone can do it....unless I'm wrong?

Thanks for caring so much. :)

Well, I am not a carb counter but nope, I never ever feel guilty. And like Kaplods, I definitely will answer questions from those that ask--in fact, I would/will go above and beyond.

Plenty of people struggle with Atkins too. In fact, I have numeous, numerous friends that have done it off and on for years--some would do it again, some would not. I have done it but it isn't the right thing for me.

Congrats on finding what works for you--but simply, no one plan is the plan for everyone.

Hi, LuckyMommy! Oh, migraines are awful! My husband gets those and he has medicine now that really helps him, but it was awful seeing him in pain before he got the medicine that worked for him.

I just feel like...dieting is supposed to be horrible. I mean that's the way it always was for me. It was pure torture. And I could never endure it for very long. This is just the first time I ever found something that felt like living a regular, happy life, instead of torture. And I feel guilty that I found my magic key, when others are still searching for theirs. I hope everyone will find a way to diet that is easy, and that doesn't feel like torture, and that helps them be healthier.

I was a carb addict, I'm sure of it, looking back now - I lived on poptarts, fries, toast with jam, that sort of thing. I just could not practice moderation with those foods, I binged all the time. This is working for me because it's gotten me away from the foods that were binge foods for me. For me it's easier just to avoid pancakes and syrup altogether, rather than trying to have just a bit of it.

But I'm having some survivor guilt I think. I feel bad for anyone who is still struggling to find the path that is best for them.

I do know what u mean about feeling like this is so easy. I have never had such a great time dieting lol

I think it is important not to assume that the path we're on, is right for everyone. Our "easy way," isn't necessarily right or easy for other folks. We can end up feeling sorry for folks who aren't feeling sorry for themselves. Hubby and I have a lot of freinds who feel sorry for us because we don't and can't have children. More correctly, we shouldn't have children because of our health problems. Under different circumstances I might have happily had children (I have nothing against having children), but I'm satisfied with my childless life. Hubby and I will have a different life than we would have had with children, but not necessarily a better or worse one. So our friends with children do not have to pity us (or we them).

I learned alot from Atkins, but I can't follow the plan as written, because my hunger signals are so unreliable that I can't use hunger as my guide as the plan requires. I can stall on induction, because I'll eat too much of the allowed foods, so I use a low-carb exchange plan. My problem with the exchange plan is that I don't stick to it as well as I should.

I'm not jealous of people who can and do lose weight faster, better, easier - so I don't want anyone feeling guilty.

I'm enjoying my life, and all of the other things I put my energies into. Losing weight is just part of the package that is my life. Hubby and I are on disability and have a bunch of health problems that many of our friends feel worse about than we do. They think we must be miserable with all of the things that we've had to deal with. But, I look at their lives and see that we're happier and more content with our lives than some of them are.

I think you're right that we're taught that dieting is supposed to be absolute torture. It's taken me a couple years to lose my 80 lbs. Someone might think that I'm to be pitied for it taking so long - but I look at it this way - I'm choosing to take the easiest route for me - and for me the easiest route is very slow.

If I want to lose weight faster, I could put more effort into it (and this year I plan on), but no one has to feel sorry for me if I've chosen or continue to choose a slower route than they're choosing.

There are so many choices we have in our life, and so many variables that determine our priorities in making those choices, and our satisfaction with those choices that comparing our choices to other people's choices is often unfair.

In fact often, sympathy is misplaced and we can feel sorry for someone who is very happy with their own choices. It's rather arrogant in some respects to feel pity for someone who may be perfectly happy with their life. And the person you pity, may pity you in return (and both of you would be wrong in assuming that the other is deserving of pity).

Thanks, Kaplod! That gives me something to think about!

I'm so glad that you have a good life, and a happy life, in spite of the hard times that life throws at all of us.

You know, maybe other people aren't as miserable as I was on the low-cal diets anyway, because I think other people don't have the problems with carbs that I have. It's just how my body is, I think. Even when I was a kid, I'd binge on candy.

So probably when I'm there thinking they feel exactly like I felt on a low-cal diet, maybe they aren't nearly as miserable, because their body is different and has different reactions than mine.

It is an easy mistake to make, to start thinking that what works for you, works for everyone....

I would like to clarify that true binging (or binge eating disorder) often doesn't really have anything to do with hunger. It's a coping mechanism set off by emotional triggers. Low carb, no carb, all carb all the time - it doesn't matter to the binge eater. The pain and struggle you see in those binging threads isn't solved by picking a different eating plan. It would be nice though if it was that easy!

Oh! I didn't know. What is it called, what I was doing? Just sort of garden variety overeating? I think there is something weird with my insulin, I think I get low blood sugar right away when I eat something with a high glycemic index, and I have a hard time resisting that hunger because it feels really overwhelming.

Carb addiction (or insulin and blood sugar issues) can cause (or at least mimic) bulimia, and other binging disorders quite well.

For years, I assumed I was a compulsive and emotional overeater. I ate in response to stress. I ate ridiculous amounts of food, and by all appearances had a binge disorder.

I tried support groups, mental health counseling - I even think I chose psychology as my field (earning a B.A. and an M.A.) to try to figure myself out.

I was given a variety of explanations for my binging (the most popular "abandonment issues" from being adopted as an infant).


When I started taking birth control pills, the binges became less frequent, and when I stopped crash dieting, the uncontrollable major binges stopped. still had problems with overeating on a smaller scale with high-carb foods. On a low carb diet, I'm less hungry and less food-obsessed. But to all outward appearances I had a severe binge disorder and then suddenly didn't.

I suppose you could say that I didn't have a "true" binge eating disorder, but outwardly, I sure had all the symptoms. No one following me around 24/7 would have called it anything else. I overate in response to emotional stress. I ate ridiculous amounts of food to self-medicate and make myself feel better (in the short term). I went through the binge/purge cycles (even tried to make myself throw up, but never got the hang of that for it to work reliably, so I crash dieted instead).

I wonder how many people (like I did) assume they have a severe emotional problem, when their eating disorder is actually being caused by a physiological response to sugar/insulin.

Also while my solution is simple, it isn't easy. Low-carb dieting is a cure (or at least a treatment) for my binge disorder, but following a low-carb diet has social and cultural complications. Everyone tells you how unhealthy your diet is. Carbohydrates are hard to avoid and are constantly being pushed by well-meaning friends and relatives as celebration foods (and you're a party-pooper and a spoil sport if you don't indulge with everyone else)...

I think carb-addiction (whether it's a true "addiction" or not) is it's own eating disorder, and the solution really is as simple as a change of eating plan -

but simple doesn't always mean easy.

Ok I'm brining up the gluten again (grins) Gluten which is in wheat, barley, rye, and some oats can cause you to binge on these foods if you have a gluten intolerance/allergy. You aren't getting the nutrition from them so your body tells you that you need more and more....it is like an addiction. ALL binge eating is not emotional....some is physical.

There is also the PHYSICAL component of insulin and carbs.....if you have insulin resistance, and your diet is mostly carbs then your body is tell you to eat more and more carbs to keep that steady insulin level.....low carb dieting keeps them level so that you dont have the major ups and down of insulin. Low carb dieting is not for all but it is for me.

There are many people out there like us who would benefit from it if they just tried and stuck with it.....they would be amazed at the difference! Others may not do well on it but do better on calorie counting....we are all made different.

As for the person who posted about having a headache on low carb? I wonder if that is during the induction when your body is basically detoxing the carbs? that is normal to have headaches then....but then later you have an energy lift and feel great! I had more headaches off this diet. Headaches daily are a concern.....they may be rebound headaches if you are taking meds daily for them (I used to work for a neurologist). I have tremendous energy now that I didn't have before which not only benefits me it benefits my daughter too!

Thanks, LeslieLou, I hadn't even thought about how my reactions might have been gluten intolerance! All I know is, something physical was going on with me and the carbs. It was an actual, physical reaction. And eating this way frees me from those really strong physical reactions, and for the first time in my life, I feel like I'm not just a slave to my appetite.

It's still kind of hard for me to get my head around the idea that dieting can be like this, just a normal happy life, instead of suffering and torture and constant overwhelming hunger.

P.S. Sometimes I wonder if some people don't even want to try this, because of the misinformation out there about low-carbing. You know, how a lot of people think it's dangerous to the heart, etc. I just read an article yesterday published in a medical journal, that followed women who low-carbed, and concluded there was no increased risk of heart disease in women who low-carb. They DID notice an increase in heart disease based on the glycemic index of the diet - in other words, the more high-glycemic index foods a person eats (sugar, white bread, etc.) the higher the risk of heart disease. So that's even one more reason for me to avoid the high glycemic stuff...

hey thats great info Lori! I remember a study a while back basically stating the same stuff! Like I said before..I have two uncles who decreased their cholesterol without meds just by following a low-carb diet.

You have mentioned the depression you were in before....there is also a link to gluten and depression....check out this site if you want http://glutendoctors.blogspot.com/ I usually dont post links cause mostly I dont like it when others do to prove their point but there is some great info here..... it makes you stop and think for sure. I dont know if I'm gluten intolerant or not but I do know that I feel better by not eating breads and cereals and such! Isn't it great to feel good? :)

Thanks, LL, I'll look through the articles at that link! You know, looking back, I always had grains for breakfast. I mean, that's what I was taught you were supposed to eat for breakfast most days. Cereals, or else toast. So I pretty much never had a day that didn't have gluten in it. Interesting....

Just read some, and I have most of the symptoms of that, or had, until I started Atkins....

I also agree with them that being lifestyle doctors will help us be healthier rather than just treating symptoms as they arise....

Originally Posted by HealthierLori:
It's still kind of hard for me to get my head around the idea that dieting can be like this, just a normal happy life, instead of suffering and torture and constant overwhelming hunger...

Sometimes I wonder if some people don't even want to try this, because of the misinformation out there about low-carbing. You know, how a lot of people think it's dangerous to the heart, etc...

I can SO relate to this. If I had found this food plan (and the birth control) a couple decades ago, I would have saved myself so many health problems (and ironically, I WAS avoiding low-carb diets because of their reputation for being unhealthy, and my too-brief experience with them).

Induction made me ill (and it didn't go away after the first couple weeks as induction flu is supposed to). I realize now, that the nausea, light headedness and fainting (even now, I can pass out if my blood sugar gets too low), were probably an indication that I had blood sugar issues, even then (in high school).

Eating more frequently, eating more fat, or even raising carbs a bit above induction level would have been a better choice than giving up - but that's what I did, because my doctor, my parents, and almost eveyone was telling me how "dangerous" low carb eating was.

After my high school experience with Atkins, I never followed a low carb diet for more than a week until my doctor recommended (I think it was 3 years ago) low carb, because he said some studies were finding that insulin resistant folks lost weight more successfully on low-carb than other diets. He warned me not to got too low, though - and when I asked him what was too low, he admitted that he didn't know, and I should experiment and pay attention to how I feel, and we'd review my bloodwork every three to four months.

I'm also trying to avoid gluten. I don't know whether I'm allergic or sensitive to wheat and/or gluten, but I definitely feel my best when I avoid wheat (and I'm avoiding other gluten grains just to be safe).

Last night I had a few bites of my husband's pizza (big mistake and I knew it), and today I feel like crud. It was the dumbest thing to do, since I know wheat almost always makes me sick (there've been a few times that I've escaped without obvious symptoms, so I think part of me still doesn't really believe that I have a problem).


The lower my grain and more generically carb intake, the better I feel. And it's STILL hard to avoid them.

As a former substance abuse counselor, and a current user of pain medications, I dislike the word addiction being misused (tramadol, the pain medication I'm on, rarely causes true addiction, in the abuse sense because when used as prescribed there's no high involved - and yet it does cause physical dependence, which many confuse with true addiction - because if you stop the medication without tapering off, you will experience withdrawal symptoms. The drug can also be abused by taking far more than the prescribed dose or by mixing it with other drugs. As a result, some doctors are reluctant to prescribe it, despite the fact that abuse would be fairly easy to detect if the doc is paying attention).

Got a bit off-track, but my point is that I think the word addiction is often overused to describe impulse-control problems that don't rise to the level of true addiction. But, all that being said, addiction does seem to very much describe my relationship with high carbohydrate foods. I truly suspect that if sugar and flour were illegal, there would be a thriving black market and no shortage of speakeasies serving illegal cake.

I don't believe that carb addiction is universal. There really do seem to be people who could take them or leave them, but I'm definitely not one of them. If the carb concentration is too high (even from natural sources like fruit), one bite is never enough. I feel like I'm starving to death. Carrying 160 extra pounds, I know it makes no sense logically, but it's how I feel.

It seems like a mental illness, because it's "crazy" to feel that something terrible will happen if I don't load up on the unnecessary carbs. It's "crazy" to self-medicate every emotional crisis with high glycemic carbs.

And yet the crazy disappears when I keep my blood sugar under control. Of course it makes me wonder how many bulimics and other bingers are doing so because of the physiological reaction to carbohydrates, rather than because of emotional problems. Emotional crisis is the trigger, but is it truly the cause?

It is rare for bingers to binge on low-carb foods. Binge foods are almost always carbohydrate containing foods, or foods eaten in combination with high carbohydrate foods. So, I'm not sure there is always a distinction between "true" eating disorders and carb-addiction. I think the two overlap to a degree that makes it hard to seperate the two.

Now if someone has severe emotional problems, even if a low-carb diet "cures" their bingeing, the person might start cutting on themselves or shoplifing, or engaging in some other compulsive self-stim behaviors.

I think it's wrong though to call carbohydrate-addiction anything but a true eating disorder. That doesn't mean though that the person has any emotional problems, except those caused by the trauma of being caught up in the compulsive cycle.

Thank you, Kaplods, your posts are so informative and I really enjoy them!
That brings up a really interesting issue, about if physiological reactions to carbs are a part of eating disorders where there is binging. I wonder if there is research being done on that now?

Oh, I used tramadol too. Or I did for awhile. The docs thought I had Interstitial Cystitis but it turned out to be endometriosis of the bladder, which went away (mostly) the closer I got to menopause. Anyway there was lots of pain, had to urinate every fifteen minutes, couldn't sleep at night because of my stupid bladder. The Ultram worked to put me to sleep and made my bladder shut up, but most docs were scared to death of it. Kind of made me mad too, because I was just trying to have a normal life, not get high or anything. But every single one of them pretty much looked at me like an addict, I am convinced.

Thanks for sharing your story about the low blood sugar. I've been feeling kind of weak the last couple of days. If it doesn't go away, I will reintroduce some complex carbs (non-wheat, just in case) and see what happens. I just have to figure out this puzzle that is my body, bit by bit. You'd think I'd have figured it out by now, I'm 48, but sometimes I'm slow to learn.

It's hard to learn when so many people you respect tell you that the information is wrong.

I've been fighting obesity since I was 5 years old, and I only approached a normal weight once (going from 225 lbs to 155 lbs in about 2 years, starting the second semester of 8th grade - with the aid of prescription amphetemine diet pills).

I never gave low-carb much of a chance, because "everyone" knew it was unhealthy. Even when my doc recommended it three years or so ago, it took me another year to give it a chance. Only after a second opinion from a weight loss clinic doctor who had lost almost 100 lbs herself (and her husband over 100 lbs) on a modified Atkins, was I convinced to give it a try.

It's very hard to believe (despite the evidence) something that isn't believed by most people. It's so easy to be persuaded that "everyone else" must be right.

Even though I've proved it over and over and over again to myself - I still find my self "doubting" the wisdom of low-carb eating, even though my weight loss, my blood pressure, and lab results are all significantly improving, there are still days when I look at my plate and think "this can't be healthy."

Peer pressure is a powerful thing, at all ages. And often it's a force for good (people choose not to do a lot of anti-social things because of what the neighbors, friends, family, even strangers ... would think).


Even when you KNOW you're right, it's still very difficult to swim upstream. I sometimes find myself embarassed or feeling I have to justify my choices to others. When my family visited from Illinois, I felt I had to explain why I ordered prime rib when I was supposed to be on a diet. Which led to my dietitian sister lecturing me on how bad low-carb eating was for blood pressure, cholesterol levels... When I told her all my health stats were improving she said that was probably just from the weight loss itself. And I said, "well, I guess I don't have to worry about it until the numbers start moving in the 'wrong' direction."

And we argued about it some more, and while the discussion never became inappropriate (I don't mind at all discussing a topic that many people would consider inappropriate - as long as everyone is respectful and doesn't resort to name-calling or nastiness), and I felt that I defended my position very well - I think that it still got a part of me wondering whether I was doing the right thing (even though I mostly knew that I was).

aww your welcome Lori! some of the older posts on that blog really have a lot to say about gluten and depression and the mental fog it can cause. I know how you feel about always thinking you had to have grains for breakfast ....cause I did too! Gluten didn't bother me as a child but in the last few years I have noticed that I can swell pretty bad after eating even a bowl of oatmeal....even my face will swell! I thought maybe it was sodium or something but it wasnt the sodium. I also had horrible digestive issues and it really became a way to constantly run to the bathroom (sorry TMI). I'm so happy I found my way back to low-carb....it has really changed my life! I hope you will feel better soon......are you eating your veggies? (sorry if I sound like your mom :D)

Kaplods...if you felt yucky about just taking a bite of your hubby's pizza then yeah you became "glutenized".....just say NO! :D I agree with what what you said about carb addiction....I'm glad us gals are on the right track! You have been so strong and I'm glad you are standing up to your family. I honestly don't care what people think of me and what I'm doing to make myself better so if they have an opinion they can voice it but I know what I'm doing is right for me. Besides....people really need to look at all the illnesses obesity causes. Its like they wanna judge low-carbing dieting but they really need to look at all the health problems obesity causes! oh well...I'm off my soap box now lol! lets keep up the low-carbing :carrot: (wish this was a piece of bacon dancing) hahahaha! :D

Oh, Kaplods, jeez I feel bad that they put you on amphetamines back then! That just can't have been good for you. I mean, a kid at that age is still growing and the brain is still developing, I just can't imagine that was a healthy thing. But I guess even the experts have been wrong a time or two over the years.

You must be tougher than I am, I don't think I could have handled a conversation like that without getting upset or angry. It's a frustrating thing, swimming upstream. I'm thinking I won't even tell the truth when my doctor asks me. I might just say, "I'm eliminating sugar and highly refined foods from my diet." And that's not a lie, exactly, because I am eliminating those things. I've already caught some flak from people about what I'm doing, who meant well and wanted to warn me, and I just...I don't know, I guess I'd rather avoid it. I hope that it didn't ruin your dinner, having your sister kind of nag you like that. Prime rib...I love prime rib! One of the greatest foods on earth if you ask me!

I was thinking of a story about me and carbs. Addiction isn't the right word to use, but I used to watch my father keep drinking no matter what it cost him or who he hurt, and my love affair with full-sugar Coca-Cola was like that. I've had to have every (remaining) tooth in my mouth capped because sipping Coke all day long took away all my enamel. (My enamel was softer than normal due to genetics, but still...) When we went to the field, when I was in the Army, I put a six pack of Coke in my rucksack because I couldn't live without it. I mean, I added that much weight to something I had to cart around, because I couldn't live without it. And I drank it even though it was, I don't know, 80 degrees, LOL. Hot Coke, yum, LOL!

I finally got away from the Coke, because I was worried about my bones. But my love affair with sugar and stuff with no nutrients continued...sigh. And people tried to tell me, in a way. One of my fellow soldiers said, "I've never seen you eat anything but pure junk. Do you ever eat actual food?" And I said, "not very often." Which was true enough.

Man, no wonder I was depressed and had skin problems and hives and allergies and every other problem known to mankind.

I feel like I wasted all those years. I feel like I could have been feeling this good, but I made the choice to have sugar and flour instead.

Well, nothing I can do about the past. I'm on my way to being a healthier Lori, now, and I'm happy about that!

LL, I'm eating lots of veggies! :) Actually I think I might be going over the 3 cups allowed on induction, I haven't been careful to measure. I've been using veggies to kind of make me feel full. Like, if I feel like a snack, I slice up some cucumbers and dip them in a little ranch dressing. My stomach is pretty stretched out from eating really huge amounts of the carbs over the years, and so it might take me awhile to get used to smaller amounts of things.

Lori...I hear ya on the stomach stretching! Mine is the same way...ugh! I hope you get over the week feeling soon!

In hindsight, it seems crazy that a doctor would put a 13 year old on amphetemine diet pills, but my parents, my doctor, and I were doing the best we could.

It may seem like the "dark ages," to use such extreme measures on a teen, but if so, we're still in them. I've seen a few shows about morbidly obese teenagers - and saw stories of teens as young as 13 getting liposuction and gastric bypass (not to mention shows telling of of perfectly beautiful teens getting gifts from their parents of nose jobs, boob jobs and other plastic surgery for their 16th birthday).

As for getting upset with family butinskiness. Sometimes I do get annoyed, but mostly I understand that they're saying what they think is in my best interest. It's not their fault, that they're dead WRONG.

To be honest, I wish more people felt it was ok to discuss their opinions about fat and weight loss. Making it a taboo subject means you're always wondering what people "really think." At least that's been my experience. I'd rather I KNOW that someone doesn't agree with what I'm doing than trying to decipher their opinion from their facial expression, body language, and tone of voice. What I HATE is when I can tell that someone (especially if that someone is my mother) is "keeping quiet" because they know their opinion is "inappropriate." I can just feel the judgement as if it were hanging in the air, suffocating me. "Just say it," I want to scream.

When you're confident in your choices, it doesn't hurt to have people disagree with those choices. In fact, it can be very educational on many levels to discuss topics you disagree with. My mother always says in frustration, "you always want to fight."

That's not true. I don't want to fight, but I do enjoy arguing. To her, it's the same thing. To me, it's exercising my opinions. I think opinions are like muscles, if you don't USE them, they atrophy. By discussing and even by disagreeing, you really learn what you REALLY believe. It opens you up to new ideas and sometimes it even persuades you to change your opinions.

For the most part, I think that's a VERY good thing.

My biggest problem is that I tend to think everyone is entitled to MY opinion, LOL. I'll go to great lengths to try to prove I'm right. I've gotten a little better as I've gotten older, but I still kind of lean in that direction :devil:

I can relate to that. I've always been very good at diplomacy though. So, I seem to be able to discuss even controversial and volitile topics (sometimes even with strangers) without often offending anyone.

I think I learned it (selfishly) because it increased the likelihood that I could successfully share my opinion with everyone.

It's one of those paradoxes - the less I act as though I believe everyone is entitled to my opinion - the more likely I am to get to share that opinion.

Sometimes it feels almost dishonest to give respect to some opinions (when I believe someone is essentially being being an idiot, for example).

However, it's impossible to persuade someone away from an opinion when you treat them like an idiot for having that opinion.

I suppose it's a case of "catching more flies with honey," which also seems somewhat manipulative, and that's not really the way I mean it (most of the time). In the best sense, I think it boils down to realizing that giving respect (even when it's difficult) is the only way to receive it.

You always write such great, thoughtful posts! Thank you! :)