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Old 08-08-2016, 12:06 AM   #1  
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Default Why is this so HARD?!

Y'all. seriously. I'm just gonna say exactly what's on my mind lol.

I am so sick of coming on here, cheering about changing my life and getting healthier and blah blah blah and then falling off the wagon. I do not know why, what, whatever but I can not for the life of me stay motivated. It's like, for some reason, I just don't think it's worth it.

I've been struggling with my happiness for awhile and it's affecting my relationship with my boyfriend tremendously. I was still new to my major weight loss when I met him and was just beginning to be (but definitely wasn't there yet) used to the new me. And then life happened and blah blah I let myself go. And recently, my boyfriend has told me in a roundabout way that letting myself go has caused him to just, well, not really be interested in me anymore. And it's not about me gaining weight. Gaining weight he gets -- it happens to everyone at some point. But i mean, I guess I see where he's coming from. Can you imagine being his shoes, meeting someone who is normal and happy and healthy and watching them become a fat sloppy depressed mess? (I know that's an extreme way of putting it, but I feel like thats what I've become.)

It's just gotten too far. I feel like I let him down by letting myself go. And I know I shouldn't worry about what he thinks or whatever, but all he's asking me to do is take care of myself. It doesn't have to be anything fancy, I don't have to have a perfect body or anything like that -- but I mean, I don't think it's too much to ask to want me to be healthy. To exercise, eat normal portions like a normal person, and just do what it takes to be a healthy person.

But I can't FIND that person I was when I met him. I cannot remember why I was the way I was when I met him. I was new to being skinny, and I was being skinny so I could get a guy, and then when I got the guy I felt like I didn't have to try so hard, and bam. Here I am. Now I have a guy, but I'm still not happy with myself. I feel like I have to try SO HARD just to live my life. Everything is a chore. Everything is an effort. Like I cannot wake up and actually want to live my life. I just want to sit in a chair and read articles about how to improve my life without acting doing the things the article says. And it's so FRUSTRATING.

I don't remember losing weight being so hard the first time. I don't remember why on earth I lost that girl. All I want is to be able to enjoy life and be confident, but I don't know how to do that. Right now all I feel like is a fat ugly slob so how do I even stop thinking that way?

Ugh. I feel like this post was just a big giant load of nonsense but I needed to get it out and I'm sorry I'm dumping on you guys. Blah.
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Old 08-08-2016, 03:52 AM   #2  
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Hi Lauren,

Its okay that you've lost your way on your weight loss journey, I've lost my way twice so I definitely understand how you are feeling. Right now I'm having trouble seeing any difference in my self in the mirror and in pictures now that I've lost 30 lbs. So I'm with you on the frustration. I just wanted to reply back and say dont beat yourself up. You'll get back to where you were.
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Old 08-08-2016, 09:29 AM   #3  
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Well to start with :hugs:

I think this time around you need to not focus on being "skinny" and certainly not for a guy. Not that it sounds like he is pressuring you. You need to be the you that you want to be. Maybe you don't know who that is yet, and that's ok too. Just working on figuring that out can be good. “you all have a little bit of ‘I want to save the world’ in you, that’s why you’re here, in college. I want you to know that it’s okay if you only save one person, and it’s okay if that person is you”

I also want to point out that it sounds like you are depressed. I know nobody likes to hear that, and boy did I fight it when I was struggling with it. I called it everything else under the sun, and basically made everyone around me miserable for about 2 years. When I finally broke down and saw a doctor and was prescribed anti-depressants it was like I turned into a new person. It took about 9 months of medication to get me sorted out, and I still have the occasional bout, but the change for me was immense.

I will admit that being on anti-depressant will likely hinder your weight loss, but it was impossible for me to lose while I just didn't care. For me it was better to get my mind sorted, and then I could truly focus on my body.

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Old 08-08-2016, 12:46 PM   #4  
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I'm actually not in college anymore, haha. Graduated with my masters in December! And I actually was on anti-depressents: Zoloft, but it was a low dosage and after a while I think it stopped working because i just became this mess and i cant remember to take the damn pill. I just feel so ashamed and guilty and awful all the time and my head always feels like its in a cloud of misery, so I was just like "well the pills arent working so why should i take them". They weren't doing their job. It didn't occur to me to go to the dr and say "yo, my pills arent working, fix it!" lol

I also don't want to have to rely on a pill just to stay sane. The whole idea that I can't just be happy on my own bothers me a lot.
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Old 08-08-2016, 01:48 PM   #5  
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Sorry, didn't mean you were in college, I just like the quote.

It bothered me too. And I did wean myself off them as soon as possible. The thing about depression is that is just isn't "feeling bad". It is actually a medical condition. So it really isn't any different than taking pills when you have high blood pressure. For some reason mental health has become "weakness" when it is really just a medical problem like anything else. Not wanting to rely on a pill to be "sane" could even be considered a symptom of depression, where you blame yourself for everything. I'd really recommend trying again, maybe another dosage, maybe a different pill all together.

I did find that there were some things aside from medication that helped. Vitamin B and D seemed to have the most effect. Exercise, the harder the better, also had a good effect. Doing things I know I'm good at (music, baking, etc) did too. You just have to somehow get the motivation to start. Sometimes I'd promise someone a cake just so I'd be forced into getting off my behind and making one. You can then also feel superior because you don't eat any! lol
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Old 08-08-2016, 08:59 PM   #6  
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Originally Posted by mimsyborogoves View Post
I'm actually not in college anymore, haha. Graduated with my masters in December! And I actually was on anti-depressents: Zoloft, but it was a low dosage and after a while I think it stopped working because i just became this mess and i cant remember to take the damn pill. I just feel so ashamed and guilty and awful all the time and my head always feels like its in a cloud of misery, so I was just like "well the pills arent working so why should i take them". They weren't doing their job. It didn't occur to me to go to the dr and say "yo, my pills arent working, fix it!" lol

I also don't want to have to rely on a pill just to stay sane. The whole idea that I can't just be happy on my own bothers me a lot.
I was skinny my whole life until having a baby at 30. I just ate a healthy diet, exercised regularly, and weight was never an issue. I gained a lot of weight during a prolonged bed rest with a pregnancy and struggled to take it off. Then, as I am soooo close to my goal weight I hurt my back. Now after multiple surgeries I am heavier than when I gave birth!
Being heavy makes me tired and depressed. Add in the improved but permanent back pain that limits my activities, and has effectively killed my career, and I was on anti-depressants. I stopped them after 18 months because they just made me feel numb and they did nothing to improve my pain. I had no horrible reaction, after a week I didn't feel numb anymore at least.

Starting WW is helping me break out of my despair. Despite my limited activities I have lost 2lbs a week for a month and I am Finally moving in the right direction. I'm just holding on to meeting my own little 10lb at a time goals. Today I did the grocery shopping for the first time in ages. (I'm embarrassed to go out in summer clothes looking so big right now, but my coach has been a great cheerleader.)

If this guy isn't interested because you've gained weight and are depressed then it is good he told you now. Break it off with him and move on. He is not the kind of guy you want to have a long term relationship with. He is a fairweather fun type. My husband married a confidant size 8, six foot woman. Now I too am depressed and overweight. I ask him if he still loves me as much and finds me attractive because of my struggling with weight and the surgical recovery. He says he loves me more and more the longer we are married, he knows I weigh more but he "just doesn't see it" when I tell him the exact poundage I'm lugging around, and he tells me I am beautiful all the time without my asking. I short, we love each other, in fatness and in health.

Sounds like you are giving this current guy too much consideration and you need to give him the boot and focus on yourself. (I'm not saying it is his fault, I'm just saying you need to worry about yourself and not this man first and foremost.)

Make a fresh start. Start lifting some weights and walking on the treadmill. Read the Susan Powter book "stop the insanity" (out of print, but you can buy used on amazon for 4 dollars), she is a great motivator. Make a new girlfriend or two at a WW meeting or yoga class, and make a happy life without a man. I refused to live with my BF or get married until I was 30 because I wanted a career, and I wanted to know I could make it in the world without anyone's support. You won't regret this advice. Don't listen to the desperate clingers. It is better to be alone and happy than married, miserable, and lonely. Especially after a guy like this leaves you for a younger model during his mid-life crisis.

Being mature enough to tell someone "you aren't interested in them anymore", and not breaking up with them is not "evolved", it is selfish and cruel. You BF if not a nice guy. Tell him you have decided the feeling is Very mutual and move on.

Hope this advice helps rather than annoys you. Best of luck.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:59 PM   #7  
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Originally Posted by charliebear99 View Post
I was skinny my whole life until having a baby at 30. I just ate a healthy diet, exercised regularly, and weight was never an issue. I gained a lot of weight during a prolonged bed rest with a pregnancy and struggled to take it off. Then, as I am soooo close to my goal weight I hurt my back. Now after multiple surgeries I am heavier than when I gave birth!
Being heavy makes me tired and depressed. Add in the improved but permanent back pain that limits my activities, and has effectively killed my career, and I was on anti-depressants. I stopped them after 18 months because they just made me feel numb and they did nothing to improve my pain. I had no horrible reaction, after a week I didn't feel numb anymore at least.

Starting WW is helping me break out of my despair. Despite my limited activities I have lost 2lbs a week for a month and I am Finally moving in the right direction. I'm just holding on to meeting my own little 10lb at a time goals. Today I did the grocery shopping for the first time in ages. (I'm embarrassed to go out in summer clothes looking so big right now, but my coach has been a great cheerleader.)

If this guy isn't interested because you've gained weight and are depressed then it is good he told you now. Break it off with him and move on. He is not the kind of guy you want to have a long term relationship with. He is a fairweather fun type. My husband married a confidant size 8, six foot woman. Now I too am depressed and overweight. I ask him if he still loves me as much and finds me attractive because of my struggling with weight and the surgical recovery. He says he loves me more and more the longer we are married, he knows I weigh more but he "just doesn't see it" when I tell him the exact poundage I'm lugging around, and he tells me I am beautiful all the time without my asking. I short, we love each other, in fatness and in health.

Sounds like you are giving this current guy too much consideration and you need to give him the boot and focus on yourself. (I'm not saying it is his fault, I'm just saying you need to worry about yourself and not this man first and foremost.)

Make a fresh start. Start lifting some weights and walking on the treadmill. Read the Susan Powter book "stop the insanity" (out of print, but you can buy used on amazon for 4 dollars), she is a great motivator. Make a new girlfriend or two at a WW meeting or yoga class, and make a happy life without a man. I refused to live with my BF or get married until I was 30 because I wanted a career, and I wanted to know I could make it in the world without anyone's support. You won't regret this advice. Don't listen to the desperate clingers. It is better to be alone and happy than married, miserable, and lonely. Especially after a guy like this leaves you for a younger model during his mid-life crisis.

Being mature enough to tell someone "you aren't interested in them anymore", and not breaking up with them is not "evolved", it is selfish and cruel. You BF if not a nice guy. Tell him you have decided the feeling is Very mutual and move on.

Hope this advice helps rather than annoys you. Best of luck.
I will say you have given sound advice about a fresh start and focusing on myself, but i think its a bit much to go as far as saying those things about my boyfriend. Its not that he doesnt love me, he does. He just also wants me to be happy, and I'm very obviously not. And if i keep complaining about stuff that I'm not happy about and then never doing anything to solve those problems, why would he not get frustrated with me?

My boyfriend goes over and beyond to try and make me happy, and no matter what, all I've been concerned about is my weight. I cant be happy despite my weight, and it causes me to be a miserable person to be around. Why on earth should i expect him to put up with that? I wouldnt put up with it.

He didnt fall in love with a skinny person, he fell in love with a happy person. Why shouldnt i give him back his happy girl?
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:58 PM   #8  
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I know that its hard to hear the comments above about your bf, but I know from personal experience that its true. I joined this site when my bf of 10 years told me that the only thing stopping him from proposing to me was my weight. I got much sound advice but was very doubtful and defensive. Well in the following 6 mos I lost 40 lbs bc I was so motivated to be this man's wife. But one day I came home from work and had packed his things and moved out. After the harsh conversation I felt yucky but he went back to pretending that everything was fine for those following 6 mos. Looking back he tried to sabotage the crap out of me in that first 6 mos of me trying to better myself. I was completely broken when he left and I admit that I still am hurt by his rejection, but hindsight is 20/20 and I see now that somebody that loves me would have never said that to me and continued to hold onto me for 6 mos until something better (his HS ex-gf) came along. He didn't have the courage to say, I won't marry you so let's break up the same way that you bf has said that he's lost interest but is still hanging holding on to you. Just food for thought. Please do me a big favor and concentrate on yourself and getting healthy for YOURSELF. You are the #1 person here. I won't go as far to say that he doesn't love you bc I don't know that, but he's not being fair to you to say what he said. As I felt when similar words were said to me, you will always wonder if he's judging you by your appearance, if you're good enough and if he's looking elsewhere. So let me tell you, YOU ARE GOOD ENOUGH!!!!!! whatever you decide to do, do it for yourself and not for him. If you need to drive this in more, look up on this site, "after 10 years I've been dumped." It sucks, but it's my story

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Old 08-09-2016, 10:02 PM   #9  
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I don't think we have enough information to make a judgement about mimsy's boyfriend.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:11 PM   #10  
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I will say you have given sound advice about a fresh start and focusing on myself, but i think its a bit much to go as far as saying those things about my boyfriend. Its not that he doesnt love me, he does. He just also wants me to be happy, and I'm very obviously not. And if i keep complaining about stuff that I'm not happy about and then never doing anything to solve those problems, why would he not get frustrated with me?

My boyfriend goes over and beyond to try and make me happy, and no matter what, all I've been concerned about is my weight. I cant be happy despite my weight, and it causes me to be a miserable person to be around. Why on earth should i expect him to put up with that? I wouldnt put up with it.

He didnt fall in love with a skinny person, he fell in love with a happy person. Why shouldnt i give him back his happy girl?
mimsyborogoves I think I know what you are saying. You know your relationship best and sometimes in relationships people express honest opinions and even if it is not what we want to hear, and maybe not the absolute best thing he could have said, it doesn't have to be a death sentence for your relationship. If he continually makes it clear he is unhappy with you or makes you feel bad, then that is another thing. But sometimes some of us need another person to want to lose weight for besides ourselves. In the journey we may realize ourselves need to be number 1 but if this conversation is what jump started your motivation then maybe that is ok. Communicating with him how you feel maybe is the first step, and it sounds like you have a handle on that.
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:19 PM   #11  
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I've had to think long and hard about those words "let yourself go". And I think people forget that letting yourself go can mean different things for different people, but overall there is one major definition of the phrase is simply losing control. You can lose control in many ways: you can become overweight, you can succumb to addiction, you can gamble all your money away, be a drunk, never pay your bills, stop bathing, etc etc etc. Letting yourself go isn't just about weight, it's about losing control of who you are as a person. It's about losing control with your LIFE.

And mine, for awhile, was seriously all over the place throughout our relationship. It moved super fast - we met and dated for only 6 months before we moved in together. And right before we moved in together, I moved into a new house. And then, for the next year, I was busy living life, trying to enjoy my new relationship, and working on completing my masters' degree. It started with food -- we went out to eat all the time and I didn't want to be "that girl" that didn't know how to eat, plus he was taking me to all of these places that I had sworn off prior to meeting him cause I knew they were triggers. Mexican restaurants, chinese buffets, japanese steak houses. Burger joints, pubs and dessert bars with friends. These are places I always avoided on purpose so I wouldn't be tempted. And here we were, eating at those places ALL THE TIME. I mean, lord, it was like taking an freshly sober alcoholic to a keg party every night.

For the first year we dated, I had a personal trainer that I saw twice a week, and while the pounds were creeping on, I could still fit in my clothes and I still looked good, so it wasn't a huge deal. But then I stopped being able to afford my trainer, and I stopped working out. Once I stopped working out, thats when the next 30lbs came on, and they came on FAST. And because they came on so fast, I just felt gross and disgusting because none of my clothes fit, and I kept seeing myself in pictures, and seeing my "fat" face again...and god. I lost myself. All I could see was that 250+ lb girl staring back at me, and it ruined me. Well, then we decided we were going to move to Washington, and we did that. And while I didn't gain any weight, really, I gained INCHES. I just look so bad. None of my clothes fit anymore. My pants are way too tight, they look like they're painted on. I pretty much can only wear dresses and leggings because those are the only things that I don't look sloppy in. BF suggests buying bigger clothes. "Who cares what size they are if they look good?" But I refused to buy bigger clothes. And then I finally give in and decide to buy stuff, and the only thing that looks good on are huge tent-like tunic tops because those are the only things that seem to have sleeves to fit my arms. So, my options at this point are wear clothes that don't fit, or wear clothes that look like tents because that's the only thing I feel comfortable in. And I know BF can sense my discomfort whenever we go out. He knows I hate the way I look. It's so hard for me to be happy about anything anymore because I feel like such a failure.

I mean, it's not just my weight. I stopped wearing makeup. I stopped washing my hair. I stopped taking care of my skin, and am currently broken out like I'm a teenager again. I stopped cleaning the house except for the bare minimum I had to do so we wouldn't get sick. I mean, seriously, you guys, I was succumbing to depression, and nothing he was doing was helping me, so he gave up too.

I value our relationship too much to let us just give up on each other. I can be a happy healthy person. I expect him to also be a happy healthy person, and he cannot be that unless I am too. We are a partnership. And I need to take care of myself for myself, not just for him. I mean, this is the only body I got, and it's not like I had a perfect one when I met him -- I mean I may have been "thin" but I had a bunch of loose skin on my stomach and arms. I mean, if he can take my loose skin, of course he can take me putting on some weight. But no one can take a person that is negative all the time, in every way. That's just a toxic person to be around, and I don't want to be toxic.
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Old 08-10-2016, 01:48 AM   #12  
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Regain is terrible. It makes us feel worse than before losing weight. And losing weight over and over again has its own consequences, yoyoing is terrible for your heart and metabolism and indeed it does get harder to lose weight each time around. Even more importantly your self esteem gets a beating everytime you have to go through it and I've seen it time and time again gain traction and lead to depression.

I believe that what you are experiencing is completely a normal and predictable outcome caused by dieting. The addiction model of weighhtloss "I'm a food addict" always leads to this result. You can only abstain from food for a limited time. You can only "stay on the wagon" for a limited time. It is impossible to fight human nature for long. Our biology is stronger than willpower. I've been on 3fc for a long time, first as a dieter with the same results as you and eventually I turned my life over to intuitive eating, mindful eating, health at every size or whatever you want to call it. And from this pov i observe what happens to dieters and it is always this result unfortunately. So much energy is put into changing, working hard, fighting your biology that you tense yourself up the way a bow and arrow are primed to shoot. Then when you can't do it anymore and you find yourself relaxing the way you did with your BF that arrow shoots and the tension falls away and you feel like in a downward spiral that you can't stop when in reality it is your body's way of taking back control. I know how horrible this feels, been there done that for decades. But the only way to end that spiral is to get rid of the rigid tensions of dieting.

Finding balance is the single most important thing you can do for you body, mind and soul. You have to learn how to behave around food. Your body is capable of being at a Japanese steak house without you overeating. The work to get back there is intense but obviously worth it. Food is powerless and shouldn't have the ability to "tempt you" and you should be able to be around food without losing your sanity. But you have to get away from dieting in order for that to even be an option. I assure you it's the longer tougher road than dieting because it may take years - I've been doing this for almost 3 yrs and I've still got ways to go- but at least going in this direction there are no wagons, no binges, no major weight gains, and no spiraling out of control.

I don't know your boyfriend but he sounds like a good guy. I'm willing to bet that he's a natural born intuitive eater. The things he says make a lot of sense and I don't blame him for wanting a healthy girlfriend. But it is not possible to have a healthy body unless you have a healthy relationship with food, period. Food issues don't look good on anyone! By making peace with food and my body I've seen my life change beyond my dreams. I'm not skinny but I'm feeing so much joy inside my body and food has once again become a true pleasure in my life. Binging is in my past. I want to pinch myself sometimes. And I'm even wearing a bikini these days and feel fantastic in my own skin. You can get there too, you are way younger than me and I only wish someone would have taught me how to do this when I was young and didn't have to put my body through all those damaging diets. All the diets worked mind you, until they stopped being easy and I'd gain the weight back. Get off that cycle while you can!
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Old 08-10-2016, 02:15 AM   #13  
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Hi Lauren
I'm in the same boat and I bet there's a lot more with us. I too read lots of articles aboutique diet and fitness but then don't put them into practice.
Every day I promise myself I will start tomorrow but I never do and just end up putting more weight on.
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Old 08-10-2016, 03:09 AM   #14  
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hey lauren,

i just had to reply to your post - i honestly could have written this myself. a little over two years ago i got nearly to my goal weight (i was 150 and striving for 140 - but i actually was super happy at 150 and could have stayed there contentedly forever). i met my boyfriend about halfway through my weight loss journey at about 180 lbs and we were "officially" together by the time i got down to 150. a year after i hit my goal weight we moved in together, and that's when the weight slowly started to creep back on. i hovered around 170 for nearly a year, which was kind of tolerable for me... but over the last few months, i've gained 30 lbs QUICKLY, and i'm back in the 200s (a number i vowed i would never see again! alas...).

like you, when i met my boyfriend, although i wasn't yet at my goal weight, i was a completely different person. i was slowly growing more comfortable with my body, more active, more social, generally happier and carefree, more sure and confident. and i've since become a mess - seriously, the same situation you're in - stopped wearing makeup, stopped giving an eff about the state of our apartment, totally uncomfortable going out (i threw a fit last week about going to a mutual friend's birthday party - they haven't seen me since i've gained the extra 30), hair unkempt a lot of the time, super irritable. i, too, feel like a failure and wish i could figure out the magic formula to how i was feeling two years ago! losing weight seemed fairly effortless at the time, but it's hard for me to go more than a few days now without getting irritated and resentful (towards my boyfriend, who is the type who can and will eat an XL pizza + a dozen buffalo wings and stay 160 lbs at 6'1") and wanting to throw in the towel and accept being heavier.

my weight gain and happiness is also affecting my relationship with my boyfriend. for him, it's not so much of my body size (he has happily dated 180 lb me, after all), it's my constant complaining about my size and subsequently not doing anything about it, and also my sour mood and low quality of life. my relationship would be so much better if i could be happy, active, confident, sure, etc. at this weight, but it's very hard to even accept... especially after having a "taste" of what it's like to be a size 8.

my situation is a bit different in that i've been diagnosed bipolar, but have not yet found the right "cocktail" to pull me out of this slump. but i just wanted you to know you're not alone, and i'm here right along with you trying to figure out a way to "care" again and get back to moving in the right direction. we'll get there.
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Old 08-10-2016, 11:26 AM   #15  
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OMG Gigantosaurus, are we twins??? LOL

My boyfriend, while he's not a skinny person by any means at 250lbs & 6'2. BUT, he's a stocky guy -- broad shoulders, thick torso. Honestly, he wouldn't even have to lose weight to get the body he wanted -- all he'd have to do is lift some weights and he'd get toned up pretty quickly. But his diet is TERRIBLE. Just as an example, last night he made crescent rolls w/ nutella in them. He ate 5. I had 1 (I had the calories to spare!). He's not a big veggie eater; actually, if anything, what pisses me off the most is that I actually eat more nutritiously than he does and less junk than he does. He gets hardcore milkshakes all the time -- not just your standard strawberry or chocolate or vanilla, I'm talking a large milkshake from sonic with oreo AND reese's. If I get one (and I had been getting them more often than I'd like to admit lol), I get a small of whatever flavor I choose (here lately it's those wildberry & lavendar ones from sonic lol). And if he decides he needs to lose weight? Well he'll just get less milkshakes, and bam, he loses whatever weight he feels needs to come off (He never gains more than 10lbs at a time).

So yeah! I'm in the exact same boat. And one time he was talking about how his previous girlfriends have done the same thing: "They try to 'keep up' with me when we go out to eat, and then they gain a bunch of weight! Why can't girls understand they can't eat like a 6'2 250lb male???" And he's right. I'm 5'4, and when I met him I weighed 155. Everyone here knows that the diet of a 250lb male is not going to be the same as one for a 155lb female. But yet there I was, eating the exact same things he was (and the amounts) and then continuing to gain weight. Obviously, this isn't the first time this has happened to him, lol.

But, like you said, it's not about the way my body looks. He doesn't care about that. He has friends that are way bigger than I ever thought about being, so I know it's not *weight* specifically. But, what your boyfriend and what my boyfriend are experiencing is rejection. We are rejecting them because we aren't happy with ourselves and we feel like we are not worthy of their love, so we do exactly as we're doing and start pushing them away. That's actually the exact opposite of what we need to be doing because what we end up doing is making that person feel the way we do -- if we're not gonna try, why should they?

Maybe me and you could start one of those online weight loss friendship type things! That way we can hold ourselves accountable and have someone to turn to when things get hard! What d'ya say?
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