[banananutmuffin]

...what's the argument against a very low calorie diet?

I guess some of this comes from frustration. I don't believe starvation mode exists, either. (I've known a few anorexics in my time, and they are a walking example that starving yourself does not lead to "holding onto body fat.")

But I've been cutting calories significantly, improving the quality of my diet (i.e. eating healthier foods) at every meal, and exercising WAY more than usual. In fact, even though I am not 100% dialed in, I am eating better and am more active than I've been in two years.

Result on scale after 6 weeks: Zero pounds lost.

I also don't buy into the ol' "You're gaining muscle" argument. I'm 5'0" and small-framed. "Muscle" is something I've never really had and never really gain, even back during my Body For Life days when I was lifting a ton.

So yeah. I've been thinking about really really REALLY restricting calories to try and drop this extra weight, but I'm wondering what the arguments are against that (I know most people are "marathon, not a sprint" proponents). Is it simply because a super low-calorie diet is impossible to maintain in the long run and leads to binges?

[Paulitens]

I don't think it's a myth. I think it's a phase, and that you have to continually starve yourself to "outgrow" that phase and have your body begin consuming its fat storage.

I think restricting calories a bit DOES work. It's simple math: if you ingest less calories than you burn, you'll lose weight. I used to have no calorie budget, and now I have a 1200 cals/day and I have been losing consistently 1+ lb per week after the first two weeks "dieting" (those first two weeks I lost about 10 lbs, pretty insane, and after that it got normalized). And I work out occasionally (3-4 times a week, just vigorous walking or jogging). Now, one pound per week may not be what you're looking for, but I'm happy, I get to eat yummy stuff here and there (healthy, "light" or fat/sugar free snacks); I have lost almost 35lbs and I have not plateaued one single week.

And to answer your question, yes, I wouldn't limit my calorie intake any more because then I would go bonkers and binge when I reach my goal. It takes time and you'll have to arm yourself with patience. Set up a plan and stick to it. At one point your body will stop resisting and will start losing.

[BillBlueEyes]

The arguments against rapid weight loss that most concern me are the seriously increased risks of heart failure. The body does a great job of breaking down muscle right along with fat when weight loss is rapid - and one source of that muscle is the heart.

googling the questions turns up a dozen sites that caution against rapid weight loss for that reason. Here's one.

[luckymommy]

Perhaps it's not the fact that muscle just weighs more than fat, but also that when you workout, you hold onto more water. Could you also be eating foods that are higher in sodium? Could there be a hormonal component? Have you started any new meds? I know none of this answers your questions, but those are just thoughts that came to mind. Also, do you have very little weight to lose? Have you tried calorie cycling and/or HIIT? Those things tend to get weight off. But I don't think cutting calories leads to a starvation mode because like you said: anorexics. One other thought: have you seen a doctor? Perhaps you have a thyroid issue or maybe something else. If you make some changes and nothing happens after another month (of no cheating), then maybe there's a medical factor.

I can completely understand your frustration though. I also think that very low calorie diets are ok for a short period of time but I do think they lead to over consumption eventually for most people.

p.s. I'd like to add that a friend of mine went on an 800 calorie a day diet and lost loads of weight but she claims this has really messed up her metabolism. Just in case there's some long term consequence, I don't think it's worth the risk. I've also heard that it decreases muscle mass. Anyway, sorry this is so poorly written, I have a lot going on right now.

I hope you'll get some more feedback and that you'll figure it out.

[nonameslob]

Starvation mode isn't a myth, it's just that in everyday dialogue many of us have used it to describe situations that really aren't starvation mode. For example, a lot of times I'll see someone post on here that they've eaten very few calories (1200 or less) for a week and haven't lost, and someone will jump in and say they are probably in starvation mode which is why they aren't seeing a weight loss. From my understanding, it takes a long time (I'm not sure quite how long that is to be honest, but it's more than a week!) of continued extreme calorie restriction for this to actually go into effect.

But yes, restricting your calories too much over a long period of time could affect your metabolism, and you really need to make sure you're getting enough nutrients. And yes, a lower calories diet increases the possibility of binging and inability to maintain.

You're right about gaining muscle though. It's an overly optimistic argument when someone isn't losing or is gaining. It takes a long time to build muscle. However, a new workout routine will cause you to hold fluids.

Either way, everyone is different. Listen to your body. Figure out how many calories you need to eat in order to lose weight, avoid binging, avoid feeling weak, get all your nutrients, have energy, etc. I'm sure you'll find a balance that works for you. How many calories were you eating and how much are you considering reducing them?

[banananutmuffin]

I don't really count calories... I just follow a basic paleo/primalish plan. It's always worked for me in the past.

Typical day of meals:

- Fast until noon, drinking only black coffee, unsweet iced tea, or water
- Meal 1: Chicken stock with some veggies (like a handful of baby spinach) and an egg stirred into it
- Meal 2: A few slices of deer bologna and some rice crackers, or a 1/2 cup cottage cheese and a rice cake, or some cucumbers/carrots with ranch dip made with greek yogurt
- Meal 3: Burrito bowl made with 3/4 cup rice, tons of lettuce, tomato, onion, avocado, sour cream, and ground beef

I do not drink sweetened beverages at all, but I do have a glass or 3 of wine at night. But I've been drinking that way for years. And in the past, my meals would have been twice as large: eggs, sausage, toast for brekkie, a ham sub and potato chips for lunch, and the pizza plus loaded cheese fries for dinner. (Yeah, not the healthiest diet, I know.)

I don't know how much more I could restrict. I already feel like I eat a fraction of what I used to.

Exercise varies. Sometimes it's mowing lawn with Amish-style reel mower. Sometimes it's just push-ups. Sometimes it's sprints on the treadmill. Sometimes it's dancing with the kids. I'd say 2-3 times a week my workouts leave me sore the next day. Again, I used to be completely sedentary. Heck... I purchased specialty tables just so I could keep my phone, computer, tablet, and coffee within arm's reach when I sat on the couch.

Anyway, I appreciate the thoughts and opinions. I guess I'll keep tweaking and see what happens.

[Slashnl]

I think that it is important to not go so low on calories that you are losing your lean muscle mass. And, while we have to change our lifestyles some to be able to lose weight, a drastic cut in calories is just not sustainable for a lot of people. You lose energy and attitude along with the weight! So, after losing the weight, what do you do? Increase calories to what level? Then, will the weight come right back on? I think so.

That being said, I think that sometimes, unless you are really disciplined about recording all calories and weighing/measuring everything, it is really easy to underestimate how many calories you are consuming. And, it is tough to determine how many calories you burn, unless you have a heart rate monitor, and that is not 100% either.

Tough game to play! But, you have to do what you think is right!

[Paulitens]

Based on what you said I would say you're eating too many carbs (the rice patties, the rice, the ranch, the carrots) and not enough protein (little dairy and not enough white meats).

But that's me, I don't know, my diet is very low on carbs and sugars, and high on protein.

[JohnP]

Restricting calories too heavily for too long will have negative consequences for fat loss stopping isn't one of them. People who follow very low calorie diet plans need supplementation if they are going to be followed for any length of time and depending on the circumstances strict medical supervision.

Banananutmuffin I can offer you advice but I would need far more detail than you're giving.

Based on what you've told us the simple answer is you're retaining water for one reason or another which is rare but possible in a six week period. On the other hand your sample day menu plan could be 700 calories or it could be 1500 based on portion sizes. While I don't believe everyone should count calories forever I do believe everyone should count religiously for a certain period of time so they can be calorie aware always.

[banananutmuffin]

Originally Posted by JohnP

Banananutmuffin I can offer you advice but I would need far more detail than you're giving.

Based on what you've told us the simple answer is you're retaining water for one reason or another which is rare but possible in a six week period. On the other hand your sample day menu plan could be 700 calories or it could be 1500 based on portion sizes. While I don't believe everyone should count calories forever I do believe everyone should count religiously for a certain period of time so they can be calorie aware always.

Yeah. My calories--and, for that matter, my carb levels--fluctuate on a day-to-day basis. I aim to do a little cycling (higher calories/carbs on weekends), but am not super diligent about it. For years I used to write down everything I ate, so I have an okay idea of the calories I'm consuming. Honestly, I'd say my low days are 1,500 and my higher days are 2,000. Now, I've always consumed lots of calories and not gained weight. Typically 2,000+ on a daily basis, and that's being sedentary. But now I'm older, have three kids under my belt, etc. so I imagine some things have changed.

Water retention... maybe. I am still nursing my 10-month-old, which is one reason for my slightly higher carbs and slightly higher calories. He's starting to really eat solids, so I am thinking it is time to start upping my weight loss goals.

[kaplods]

Starvation mode in itself is not a myth, but many beliefs about starvation mode are false, so there's a lot of myth associated with the idea of starvation mode (what it is, and how it works).

Starvation mode doesn't prevent weight loss, but it can slow weight loss down. Some have begun calling the phenomenon "conservation mode" to clarify this point. It's also important to understand that conservation mode is not experienced unilaterally or to the same degree.

There may be a genetic component as well as an experiential component. Repeated starvation victims starve more slowly than someone exposed to the same diet for the first time.


If you think of the body as a corporation, and calorie intake as the corporation's budget, conservation mode is equivalent to budget-cuts.

Anorexics and famine victims are actually perfect examples of conservation mode, because some of the conservation tactics employed by the body to conserve calories are objectively observable (you can actually see where and how the body is cutting its budget).

As an example, anorexics and famine victims often have a lower body temperature and grow a downy fur, which conserves energy (calorie burning) normally alotted to maintaining body temperature.


Menstruation stops, which prevents pregnancy (which would "cost" both mother and child too much). Also the process of menstruation itself, burns more calories than a non-menstrual state.

The immune system often becomes faulty. Wounds heal more slowly, resistance to infection is compromised.

Fatigue, weakness, lethargy, and increased sleep. The less you eat, the less energy you have for activities that would burn calories. Sleep needs increase.








Even if it weren't for conservation mode, there are other reasons to avoid too-low calorie diets. Just a few: heart damage, liver damage, hair loss, damaged fingernails, increased susceptibility to illness, slow, healing...

How low calorie is low enough to trigger problems? That's really hard to answer, but it does mean that very low calorie diets should only ever be done under a doctor's supervision. This won't prevent serious problems from occuring, but will hopefully allow for early detection and treatment.

[pixelllate]

It doesn't sound like the degree of restriction you are doing would equate to let's say - lanuga/body fur. I've read accounts of anorexics who when they even do eat, they are subsisting on a bite of a Poptart and even then when they get down to the 70s, they don't have lanuga (yet.) Not saying its the same for everyone, just wanted to express that a lot of these symptoms are caused by extreme degrees of restriction.

Also, who it is also plays a role. A 1000 lb person on a very low calorie diet might not physically react the same as a 90 lb person same diet.

[banananutmuffin]

LOL No, no body fur here. Although I do have this weird shading above my upper lip that looks like a moustache. Started happening when I was outside (in sun) every day mowing the lawn. Hormones, I think. Looks terrible.

[Wannabehealthy]

I'm not asking, and it's none of my business, but maybe you are at your ideal weight for your height. Since you have done heavy lifting in the past you may be carrying more muscle weight than you realize.

[lucindaarrowspark]

Bannanut muffins!!! I have been in your shoes exactly! Breastfeeding activates our primitive metabolism. back in the olden days, we lactating mothers were often stragglers behind the roving hunters, and we survived because nature can be kind. Our metabolism goes into survival mode, hence weight loss is repressed, holding onto body mass= survival. I did lose weight when breastfeeding, but I followed the Weight Watcher's Diet from 22 years ago. Please do not despair or lose hope. THe body weight will come off but it takes time!! Stick to your healthy eating plan and eschew high calories low quality food. Nurse nurse nurse! It is healthy for you and baby. I am sending my support.