Need advice from the collective consciousness of 3FC parents
So, history: we have these neighbors with a kid a few years younger then my son, in a neighborhood with a least a dozen kids in it. My son is not allowed to play with this neighbor boy for a few reasons (and many chances have been given to said kid to correct his behavior). This kid, IDK, there has got to be something wrong with him. He screams constantly, he lies about all the kids in the neighborhood in a tattle-tale kind of way, he hurts other kids (throws rocks, uses sticks to stab) he intentionally hurts animals, I've personally witnessed his using a broken tent pole to beat a dog who was chained up and couldn't get away from him.
So, every time my son (who will be 11 in October and has well developed social skills with both kid and adult interactions) goes outside this child that he is not allowed to play with or talk to stalks him, following him, pacing our property line, while screaming obscenities. I've talked to the parents, other parents have talked to the parents...they are so obtuse they tell us our kids need to be nicer. No. No they don't. They don't even have to acknowledge this kid which is what they are TRYING to do.
With the parents refusing to acknowledge that their kid is a problem and not going outdoors to monitor his behavior AT ALL, I don't know what to do. I've called the police in on one incident. We live on a lake and the kid, mad at all the other kids while they were down at the water playing, took a bottle of motor oil and dumped it in the lake....ya..., now I've had to resort to going outside with my son when he's playing to video this kid stalking him, screaming at him, pacing our property line...it's insane. We don't have an office of children's services, or juvenile services, or even a department of family services to call. No social workers aside from the womens shelter victims advocates who won't intercede. What does one do in a situation like this? My kid can't even peacefully play in our own yard without being harassed. I'm at a loss. If his was a adult, I'd kick arse....but it's not. HELP!
It sounds like you are doing everything you can. Your first line of action would be to protect your son.Keep him away from the child and relocate inside or to a different out side space for the time being. I imagine the child will eventually get bored hopefully and stop pacing the area and screaming if no one is around to listen to him.
If the boy is harssing your child by screaming and threatening, he's committing a crime. Call the police - each and every time, and videotape it until the police arrive, so you have evidence.
Continue to report it, even if the police do little or nothing the first time or even first several times.
This can have risks of course, because given what you describe it wouldn't be surprising for the child and/or the parents to have socio-pathic tendencies (violence may be a common occurence in the boy's home). The child or his parents may retaliate against you.
Short of moving or not allowing your child to play outside, that's all I can suggest (I worked in juvenile detention and as a probation officer and have a master's degree in developmental psych).
If you're in the USA, there should be some type of family services. They may not be close, and they may not give much credence to your calls, but they probably do exist - but you don't have to find or call them, just keep calling the police and the police will take care of it on your end.
You can try warning the child (and or his parents) that you will call the police the next time the child harasses your child or will not leave your property (in some areas, standing just outside your property line isn't entirely protected. Just standing there and doing nothing may be, but harassing in any way is at least a public nuisance violation in many areas, so the boy would be fined, and the parents may or may not be considered legally responsible). Some irresponsible parents will step up if they're fined for their children's behavior.
If you see him beating a child or animal, record it and call the police and the spca/humane society/animal control.
Be as nice to the police and other reporting officers as you can be (to make sure you come off as a reasonable person). Tell them you'd rather have called them but the parents won't take responsibility and show them the proof (photos and videos) of what you've been seeing the child do.
It may seem harsh, but I can't think of anything else you legally can do that would help in this situation.
A child abusing animals for entertainment is a sure sign of him being a psychopath. I also agree with everything kaplods has said.
But personally... I would move... I would move even if it meant sleeping in my car. The sad truth is that if there isn't any offices of family services and all the things available in larger communities then it is also very likely that the police don't have anyplace to send the kid either and that is why they ignore the severity of the situation.
If moving is impossible the next best option is a secure privacy fence and round the clock security cameras.
THANK YOU Kaplods. The situation with our region and child services is that, there isn't any, not for 800 miles, and this is the US, it's a freakin joke.
I own my home so moving would be difficult, and expensive. I've considered all night survalence cameras because being outside with my kid all the time, while nice, is pretty unproductive for me. I think I'll use this weekend to amass video, and call the police again and present them with the recordings. The kid will act this way even when I'm standing there recording him and telling him to go home and telling him that I'm making a video for the police. It's disturbing. And yes, I am terrified of retaliation.
I had heard that a child torturing animals is a sign of psychopathy, but...if he is acting out something he has seen done to animals? Is it still? IDK. I'm just worried about my son, his safety, his privacy, his ability to play outside in a safe and unthreatening environment...
This all just seems so crazy to me. I wish I could erect a huge tall privacy fence, but the lake front zoning prohibits it.
I had heard that a child torturing animals is a sign of psychopathy, but...if he is acting out something he has seen done to animals? Is it still?
Not all animal abusers are sociopaths/psychopaths, and not all psychopaths/sociopaths are animal abusers.
But it doesn't really matter whether the child is on his way to psychopathology or not, he's intentionally torturing an animal, which means he's at risk for intentionally torturing human beings.
If your child gets hurt, it's not going to matter whether this kid is a budding sociopath or just a troubled kid acting out. The risk is still there.
Believe it or not, most kids (and adults for that matter) are actually more likely to act out against human beings than against an animal, which is one of the reasons that animal abuse is such a HUGE, warning sign. It's actually often a much worse danger sign than physical agression against a peer.
Personally, I would trust an unsupervised child who had gotten into lots of fights with peers, than a child who had tortured animals but hadn't yet moved to people (yet).
When children, especially young boys are physically agressive, the fight/outburst is relatively short lived (no matter how it got started). They get mad, they strike out, and it's over.
The child who takes out his agression on something that can't fight back, is incredibly dangerous, because he or she usually calculates the odds of being caught. They're going to wait until no adult is there to stop it before it gets out of hand.
It doesn't matter why he's hurting the animal, or whether he will eventually "grow out of it" (many do) but you can't afford to wait to see if he grows out of it or not - because the child is at risk now for hurting people and hurting them badly.
(When kids who do torture animals "switch" to children, it's usually way behond normal kid-against-kid agression).
Even if he just hasn't yet learned that hurting animals is wrong and illegal, it still puts him at risk for being violent towards people. That he probably will grow out of it (most do, even your average low-level sociopath) doesn't help you or your child any, because he hasn't outgrown it yet, and proceeding to humans is the next logical step. He may not move to that step, but what if he does and you're not there to stop it?
Most sociopaths do not become serial criminals. Most end up law-abiding citizens who just happen to be first class dirtbad A-holes, who don't care about anyone but themselves and sometimes a few people very close to them.
An adult sociopath of this variety is actually SAFER than a sociopathic (or even just poorly socialized) child. Because the adult is usually smart enough to realize that indulging in his antisocial impulses will likely land him in jail. A kid can't think that far ahead.
The Department of family services for your county would "in theory" govern your area as well, but with such social workers being incredibly understaffed it doesn't help you any if the nearest field office is 800 miles away (or even 80), so the police or sheriff's department in your area is going to be your best resource.
If they tell you "there's nothing they can do" don't let that be an end to it, keep calling.
I've found that with both doctors and police, they will often say "there's nothing we can do," when they really mean "I think you're overreacting and I don't think this is anything to worry about yet."
You sometimes have to convince them there's a real problem by reporting it each and every time and providing as much evidence as you can.
What a sad situation. I would have to agree with kaplods (having worked in policing myself), to keep reporting it to them and they will need to continually refer these things to the far out social services that do exist. Sad, sad, sad.
The vast majority of sociopaths tend to end up being like those guys that have a wife & kids and some sort of secret 2nd life going on - "harmless" in the sense that they do not kill or torture, but rather manipulate others to live a bit of a hedonistic life which emotionally damages their victims.
You are all far better people than me.... because I would just freaking kill that kid!!! (Alright, I wouldn't actually kill him...but let's just say that he would suffer some "unfortunate" accident that would put a quick end to his bull****...)
But seriously.... I agree with others here who have suggested videotaping it and calling the police.... Is it possible to get a restraining order against this kid and/or his parents? Because it sounds to me that they need a serious wake up call to get this kid some help... actually, it sounds like they need some serious help themselves...
Has this kid been harassing other kids in the neighborhood? and if so, What are the other kid's parents doing about it? Have you spoken with them about all of this? It sounds like you guys need a "neighborhood watch" just for this kid alone...
So obviously, I'm not sure of all the details here, but hopefully you and your neighbors can come together to deal with this kid and his parents... So you're not alone in all of this....
i also live in a fairly remote area...i'm in alaska...and while juneau itself has an office of children services, the other outlying areas do not have staff out there...HOWEVER if you call childrens services enough, make enough reports, show enough evidence to them via phone and email (as well as what they all above said about doing the same with the police) at some point childrens services will step in and address the situation...
i also agree with the restraining order....and i would suggest looking closely at the rules in that area for constructing a fence, even if you have to petition the local homeowners whatever to get it approved
the more noise you and the other parents make about the situtation, the more likely it will be resolved one way or another....squeeky wheel and all
Oh yes, the other kids are having the same problems. They congregate in my yard because I'm one of the few parents that will sit outside with them. The other kids are not allowed to play with the bad kid either, or talk to him, and the parents of one girl at the end of the street have forbidden the bad kids parents from talking to the little girl because the Dad was outside screaming at her one day for not playing with his son and "not being nice enough to him." Gawwwwd. The Dad has also screamed at my son, but...I put an end to that right then and there, no adult mistreats a child of mine. Ever.
And I don't know what happened with another one of the families with a boy about the bad kids age, they used to play together but now the other boy is barely allowed to go outside on his own and no kids are allowed in their house anymore. This is like a bad horror novel or something. I should write to Stephen King and have him immortalize this in writing.
I'm going to seriously be a thorn in the side of the PD this weekend. I know winter is coming and there will be less outside interactions for all the kids, but, you know, whatever, I'm still going to do something about it. I'm wondering if the police can force the family to keep the kid in his own yard. Is that legal even? Sad part is, their house is closer to the lake shore so the kid likes to claim that they own the lake which keeps the other kids from going down there to play most days.
@Sacredkestrel, believe me, I often feel like throttling the kids myself...oops...did I say that out loud...nvmd...nobody saw or heard anything.
You are all far better people than me.... because I would just freaking kill that kid!!! (Alright, I wouldn't actually kill him...but let's just say that he would suffer some "unfortunate" accident that would put a quick end to his bull****...)
It's not about being a better person, it's about not wanting to go to jail for assaulting a child. Even screaming at, threatening, or intimidating the child in any way could be construed as assault (all it takes for an assault charge to "stick" is that the person had a reasonable fear for their safety), and if you lay hands on, or even spit upon someone that is battery. Whether or not the local authorities would pursue charges is another matter, but it's possible, so it's best to let the police take care of it, each and every time.
ghost, in addition to calling the police, keep a log of every incident, date and time and each call to the police and date time and who you talked to This with your videos and photos is excellent evidence . You can't rely on remembering which day you called and who you talked to. It would also be helpful if other parents would do the same documenting as you are doing.This will show police that you are not just a crabby neighbor.
Why don't you and the other parents get together and have a BIG outing. (to the othe rside of the lake, an amusement park) and take all the kids (But that one) out to have a hugely fun time. Ice cream, eating out, the works. Even if jsut a couple parents go to take all the kids that would be fine too. Just get all the kids and leave and go play elsewhere for the day. Or make it a monthly thing where all the kids can just go crazy and nutso playing with no evil child watching their every move like a caged animal.
Who is he going to yell and scream at if no one is there?
I would do this of course after you have put up some cameras to monitor the area so you can video tape any type of behavior the child or parents commit while the neighborhood is on their outing.
Also, just keep calling the police, also call the Humane society, call animal control, call CYFD even though they are so far away.. You never know.. these guys could have a history and that is why they live so far away from an office. With enough phone calls, enough emails, enough video taped evidence and photogaphs and enough Police visits they will do something. Just keep being the squeaky wheel. The Police will show up to investigate if only to 'oil the squeaky wheel'
I had heard that a child torturing animals is a sign of psychopathy, but...if he is acting out something he has seen done to animals?
a child torturing animals is a SURE sign that something is terribly wrong. i think what people are referring to is the "triad of sociopathy". signs of severe sociopathy/psychopathy in childhood usually include these 3 things: setting fires, torturing animals, and bed wetting past the normal age. torturing animals is a BIG signal that something is wrong and it IS often the first step to abusing or torturing other children.
i think its a good thing that you're keeping a watchful eye on your son. maybe you and all your neighbors could get together and approach the parents at once? an intervention of sorts?
Need advice from the collective consciousness of 3FC parents
