Rant. And please keep in mind, this is in the Vegetarian forum. So, this low-carb phase in the weight loss world troubles me. I mean, I've known vegans who have gone lower carb - eating more veggies and alternative proteins. So, lower-carb simpliciter doesn't bother me.
But, what bothers me is that so many people turn to low carb as a weight loss tool, and then give up vitamin rich fruit for cottage cheese or yogurt. They give up the vitamins and minerals in beans to live off of chicken breasts, eggs - well, anything that comes from a bird. And I am familiar with calorie counts, the bird and fat-free milk products are definitely the most low calorie foods out there.
First, I worry because we all know the meat/dairy that most eat come from yucky factory farming with crazy hormones. Then, I just think this way of eating is simply not environmentally sustainable for the world.
However, I am happy whenever people lose weight and I understand that issues like PCOS require low-carb food.
I dunno - I sort of feel like our culture is missing a 'middle ground' and low-carb has somewhat been taken too far. Also, what about the cholesterol in animal products and how does it affect the heart....
This is a worried rambling that I'm sure will make people angry and I don't want it to. I want to have an honest conversation about it. But, nothing I'm saying is even new or interesting. The harmful effects of factory farming on the environment and the health risks associated with it are well known.
I guess, in the end, I'm worried about long-term health problems with eating so many no-carb animal products, that also lack fiber. But, it seems taboo to talk about, at least here.
I'm not trying to change anyone - I just am interested in knowing how some justify having a large amount of animal products in their daily diet. I feel like I need some new perspectives on the topic. I really don't want to argue - instead, I want to connect our worlds and understand your view point better.
Secondly, I'm not a vegetarian - but when I do eat meat I aim for free range and organic.
Thirdly, my thinking on carbs is maybe developing on the same lines as yours: I was advised by my doctor to exchange low carb for low GI. I felt better, and I didn't bloat.
Then, after reading about the body's need for more carbs in the winter, I investigated the Carb Lover's Diet, and am currently eating higher carb and lower calorie. To my astonishment, my ankles (barometers of bloat) are thinner than they have been for many, many years.
So far, my thinking has only got to "Hm, perhaps carbs aren't the devil's playthings after all".
Because carbs are quite calorie-dense, it means there is not much space in my budget to get vast quantities of meat, or anything else, in, so I'm definitely cutting down my meat consumption. Looking back over the last month's figures, my average protein intake is still 113% RDA, so cutting down on meat has not meant I'm protein deficient.
I'm not sure I have the time at the moment to devote to an answer I'd like to give.
I have PCOS. I know other vegans with PCOS. It doesn't require a low carb diet. I do tend to stick with low GI foods because I tend to feel better when I do. Lots of veggies (which are mostly low carb), some fruit, plenty of beans (which are low GI), some whole grains (unrefined, some have lower GI than others), some nuts (low carb), etc.
If someone wants to follow a low carb diet, I figure that is up to them. Is it sustainable for our earth to support a world full of low carbers? Not really. We are already destroying our rain forests for cattle. When I went to Central America, it was sad to see the rain forests being burnt. I read Guatemala no longer has any rain forest and in Belize they are trying to control the amount they burn but its difficult. The issue is that it is profitable for the people of those areas to raise cattle and sell the meat to the US.
(This is from the US prospective) Also we are poisoning our own lands due to factory farming. Most of our crops go to livestock feed rather than feeding people. Things like "free range" mean nothing here in the US. A "free range" chicken never sees the sun and never pecks the ground. I think these things need to change. If we stopped subsidizing corn and factory farming in general and subsidized a variety of crops instead, prices would come down on fruits, vegetables, legumes and whole grains. Prices would raise on meat and dairy but we'd have a healthier land and more access to produce.
i don't see much redeeming quality in refined carbs. i hope i never eat a white noodle or a white piece of bread again. i think you have to tell us if you are talking about refined carbs or whole grains. As far as carbs in general, even atkins says to get your carbs from leafy greans and whole grains. So those are kind of in their own category IMO.
i am with you on white carbs, i think the typical american diet is flooded with them-fries, chips, white bread and buns, white noodles. All of which are void of nutritional value. Sweet potatoes, whole grains-i say right on to those.
In my experience, low-carb eating has actually reduced the amount of meat I eat, DRASTICALLY! Low-carb controls my hunger so well (and high carb eating fuels my hunger so much) that I eat significantly less meat on low-carb than I did on high-carb.
It's true that protein (including, but not exclusively animal proteins) make up a larger percentage of my diet than in the past, but the actual quantity is much smaller. So low-carb has actually decreased my meat consumption (and my consumption of everything else too).
On low-carb, I average less than 8 ounces of protein all day. In the past, that would have just been dinner.
When eating high-carb, 6 to 8 ounces of meat for dinner was probably the average (and sadly more wasn't terribly unusual), and I snacked on protein too, but I paired it with carbs and fats.
Carbs fuel hunger to the point that I ate more of everything on high-carb eating (except veggies. I ate fewer veggies, even though I liked them).
Now, by volume, I eat more non-starchy vegetables than any other food group (though the veggies make up the smallest percentage of calories - that's just because you can eat lots and lots of non-starchy veggies for the calorie).
By reducing the proportion of carbohydrates in my diet, I'm able to reduce the quantities of all food groups. I eat less protein, less fat, and less carbohydrates, because low-carb reduces my appetite so much that I'm satisfied on far less food.
I wouldn't have believed it possible for me to eat so little and not feel starved.
I was so happy to read my replies this morning with my cup of coffee.
Rosinante: I've actually read many times that the average American eats way more protein than necessary. And I find it SO interesting that you say you are actually less bloated. I've never looked into the Carb Lovers Diets, but I'm going to research it after I write this post.
Nelie: I knew you were a vegan and that you had an ultra healthy diet, but I had no idea that you had PCOS and that you can manage it with a vegan diet. And as far as everything else you wrote, I'm glad you wrote it. I still feel like talking about these facts is a social taboo.
I have been struggling for awhile. I go vegan, but then from reading so many other posts about fish and chicken breast, I feel like I start to sway under 'peer pressure' or, my boyfriend, who eats meat, also doesn't make it easy. But then, I don't lose any extra weight and psychologically, it makes me feel sort of gross.... in general my gut feels heavier, my bowel movements are less regular, and I don't even enjoy eating it - AND then there is the guilt of the environmental impact and suffering of the animal. I do sometimes feel like I eat their suffering. It depresses me.
foodmasochist: yeah, I naturally stay away from refined carbs. They are so fluffy and I am so hungry immediately after (even while I'm eating the refined carbs, I feel hungry!)
kaplods: thank you for the thoughtful answer. I can completely understand why it is beneficial for you to eat more protein and how, in the end, it means you consume less of everything; which is better for you and for the environment. I agree that carbs, even whole grains, have a much different effect on blood sugar levels - I can personally feel it and I know it doesn't have as strong an impact on me as others.
I think things are going back to center now but maybe thats my impression. First there was low fat which meant that everyone started eating snackwells and other processed products, then people started going low carb which included those that would fry bacon in butter. Maybe its my impression but I think the concept of low GI, more whole foods, limited processed products, etc is kicking. The only issue with that is companies don't make money off of advertising broccoli or quinoa. You can't be a spokesperson for lentils.
I think you just need to find what is right for you and for me, that means being vegan, eating whole foods and minimally processed foods. I eat a fairly low fat diet as well but because I'm not eating 0 fat processed products, I don't have an issue. I also include things like avocado in my diet.
In my experience, low-carb eating has actually reduced the amount of meat I eat, DRASTICALLY! Low-carb controls my hunger so well (and high carb eating fuels my hunger so much) that I eat significantly less meat on low-carb than I did on high-carb.
It's true that protein (including, but not exclusively animal proteins) make up a larger percentage of my diet than in the past, but the actual quantity is much smaller. So low-carb has actually decreased my meat consumption (and my consumption of everything else too).
On low-carb, I average less than 8 ounces of protein all day. In the past, that would have just been dinner.
When eating high-carb, 6 to 8 ounces of meat for dinner was probably the average (and sadly more wasn't terribly unusual), and I snacked on protein too, but I paired it with carbs and fats.
Carbs fuel hunger to the point that I ate more of everything on high-carb eating (except veggies. I ate fewer veggies, even though I liked them).
Now, by volume, I eat more non-starchy vegetables than any other food group (though the veggies make up the smallest percentage of calories - that's just because you can eat lots and lots of non-starchy veggies for the calorie).
By reducing the proportion of carbohydrates in my diet, I'm able to reduce the quantities of all food groups. I eat less protein, less fat, and less carbohydrates, because low-carb reduces my appetite so much that I'm satisfied on far less food.
I wouldn't have believed it possible for me to eat so little and not feel starved.
I have found this to be exactly true for myself as well. I do eat much less protein and fat even though they are a larger percentage of the calories. Reduced carb is wonderful for me in many ways. I sue reduced carb because my wl range is 50-75 net grams, and I maintain under 100 net grams. I sometimes gain between 100-125 gm.
High Carb Support Needed
