Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-15-2008, 12:08 AM   #16  
Senior Member
 
rileyozzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
Posts: 449

S/C/G: 181/150/135

Default

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you all for the great discussion and interesting videos. I liked the Dove video where the mom says I don't know what to say because I haven't figured it out myself. I feel like that sometimes.
rileyozzy is offline  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:15 PM   #17  
change
 
ollie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: this side of the Mississippi
Posts: 468

S/C/G: 169/ticker/healthy

Height: 5'3" ish?

Default

speaking of photoshop here's another one i like to show re: the media and how they portray unrealistic women so girls have an unrealistic idea of what they are "supposed" to look like.

http://jezebel.com/gossip/photoshop-...god-278919.php

edit: be sure to scroll down to the middle of the page

Last edited by ollie27; 08-15-2008 at 03:19 PM.
ollie27 is offline  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:33 PM   #18  
I'm a khaleesi!!
 
ghost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,352

S/C/G: 260/188/130

Height: 5'3"

Default

oh, nice...when they were done with her she wasn't even the same person. I've seen a few of those before and after airbrush photos of models and celebs...I'm just glad to know they are as ugly as me underneath it all.
ghost is offline  
Old 08-15-2008, 03:37 PM   #19  
Observer of Phenomena
 
3Beans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Hampshire Seacoast
Posts: 362

Height: 5' 4"

Default

I actually have thought about this a lot. When I was an obese sedentary Camel Lights-smoking intellectual, I probably would have judged the me I've become rather harshly. But it comes down to this:


getting healthy is not anti-feminist. in fact, it's probably one of the most feminist things you can do. the healthier you are the more able to fight The Man


I totally agree with Ollie. Especially when so many corporations are making a buck off the obesity epidemic and the resulting increased need for pharmaceuticals, what better way is there to fight the power on a daily basis than to take your health into your own hands?

Is it possible you're struggling with your renewed feelings of femininity, rather than the weight loss issues alone? Post-college life can be kind of confusing - no more insulation from the 'real' world, less freedom to constantly reinvent yourself, and so forth. You're clearly an insightful person and I'm sure you'll figure it out.

Last edited by 3Beans; 08-15-2008 at 03:38 PM.
3Beans is offline  
Old 08-16-2008, 10:34 AM   #20  
Senior Member
 
pengbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nashville
Posts: 127

S/C/G: 284/207/165

Height: 5 ft 3

Default

Meatymarty, I agree with the other posters. Feminism is an individual philosophy, so everyone has their own ideas. But you ought not feel guilty or make excuses for your choosing to be healthy. I don't understand why some women feel that your opinions as a feminist are validated ONLY if you are unattractive by the current media's standards of beauty. In my experiences, some women draw their worth from their conformity to those standards, and some women draw their worth from their nonconformity to those standards and that is sad and in my opinion unfeminist. Worth and Value is so much more than appearances.

But bottom line is, the body is a machine, and like any machine, it runs at optimum performance at certain settings. And wanting to get your body to that settings is natural. That's what I had to tell a fellow feminist friend (who is very overweight like me) who started making catty comments about me "trying to get pretty" etc. (Actually, she's not so much pro-woman as she is anti-man.) So we kind of duked it out and she's backed off.

But as a woman I feel like it's my duty to be the best woman I can be, and that means showing my strength and skills and character. And being healthy is part of that, for me. Maybe not for everyone. As the only feminist in my family, I HAVE to show them that I have value besides my womb and how I can be a helpmeet to a man.

Sorry for the long post, but this is something I'm very passionate about and I felt I had to chime in. Carry on, Feminists!
pengbear is offline  
Old 08-17-2008, 09:01 AM   #21  
Senior Member
 
nakedmango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 494

S/C/G: 152/115/120

Height: 5'1"

Default

Great topic, great replies.

I've lost 15 pounds, which considering my height means I am now in the a-little-overweight-but-very-curvy category. I was out shopping yesterday and noticed guys looking at me. I haven't really noticed this in a while, so it's a little unfamiliar. And weird. And not even being subtle about it either. Why do people feel that my body is theirs to consume?

The thing is, when you're "fat", society thinks they have the right to ignore you, diminish you, disrespect you, and judge you because of your body. ...On the other forum I frequent, there is a thread--I forget the topic--about how the women who post have been called fat, called a pig, mooed at, and sworn at by strangers simply because they are overweight. This had never happened to me in my life until last week, when someone cut me off and swore at me (both of us cyclists). Seriously, I've lost 15 pounds, worked my butt off, changed so much about how I live my life-- and I feel hot, but he thought the words "fat b*tch" would break me. (Yeah right.)

But also: when you're "thin," society thinks they have the right to ogle you, objectify you, comment on you, "own" you, and judge you because of your body. We are being judged regardless of whether we fit society's ideals or not. Women's bodies are considered suitable for public consumption (in a way that men's bodies are most decidedly not)--and that is the problem, not the size of the bodies.

However, I know I feel like I have it together when I am a weight I want to be. Which makes me far more likely to speak out at things that bother me from a feminist point of view. Self-confidence at whatever your size is, is also key.

Side note: the Beauty Myth was one of the best books I ever read. A friend of mine who works with the media says it should be required reading for all women--once a year, every year. I also enjoyed Black Tights: Women, Sport and Sexuality (by Laura Robinson), and I think those of us who are into exercise will find it interesting from a feminist point of view.
nakedmango is offline  
Old 08-20-2008, 08:11 PM   #22  
Bewitchin' in the kitchen
 
mauvaisroux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 11,506

Default

I don't look at it as dieting - to me it is eating for optimum health and wellness -Thank you Dr. Weil

I am not worried about looking like a supermodel and was probably a size 2 when I was 2 years old - I just want to take care of my health and be as well as I can for as long as I can.
mauvaisroux is offline  
Old 08-21-2008, 02:17 PM   #23  
Senior Member
 
guynna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 324

S/C/G: 283/see ticker/180?

Height: 5'9"

Default

Ditto the "healthy for a long time" thing.

I wonder though about saying "feminism is an individual" philosophy; does that mean that "feminism" doesn't mean anything? Or that there is a core principle that is enacted in many ways? (The shelter director who apparently didn't respect her clients was not imo enacting anything like feminism! but there is room for difference.) I'm not advocating a monolithic, litmus-test, party-line scenario, but.... Is there a core?

What do y'all think? I'm enjoying this thread.
anita
guynna is offline  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:14 PM   #24  
Ufi
Persistence
 
Ufi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 790

S/C/G: 220/ticker/140

Height: 5-4

Default

One of the books I finished reading right before I joined here is "Fat is a Feminist Issue." I've felt that connection for a long time, but this helped because it really put things out there for me. I don't ever want to devalue myself by measuring my worth by the attention I get, by feeling I have to do certain things to be acceptable to men and thus society. But I don't have to say that with my weight. I can say that with my actions, with my words, with my attitudes. This is a surprisingly difficult thing to come to terms with, I guess probably because I don't have enough models to follow and the pressure from society can be so intense.
Ufi is offline  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:33 PM   #25  
Senior Member
 
pengbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nashville
Posts: 127

S/C/G: 284/207/165

Height: 5 ft 3

Default

Quote:
I wonder though about saying "feminism is an individual" philosophy; does that mean that "feminism" doesn't mean anything? Or that there is a core principle that is enacted in many ways? (The shelter director who apparently didn't respect her clients was not imo enacting anything like feminism! but there is room for difference.) I'm not advocating a monolithic, litmus-test, party-line scenario, but.... Is there a core?
I guess my thinking behind it is that while the core philosophy is the same (gender equality, women's rights), to each person the manifestation of that philosophy is individual. For one person fighting for women who are abused may be the way to elevate women. For another it may be not following family expectations of getting married at 16, staying barefoot, uneducated and pregnant, instead choosing to have a career and a life non-dependant on men, and encouraging others in the family to do the same. I guess that's what I meant by individual philosophy.
pengbear is offline  
Old 08-21-2008, 11:47 PM   #26  
Fifty by Fifty!
 
mollymom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: ONtario Canada
Posts: 235

S/C/G: 270.5/232.0/170

Height: 5'8

Default

Very very interesting thread. I have tried to grapple with this issue for years. In a very, very stupid moment I thought to myself the other day, "I am probably going to be single for the rest of my life, why should I even bother," and yes I promptly tried to kick myself in the *** for even letting that stupidity enter my head. But that made me think for a long time about my reasons for wanting to lose weight:

a) I NEED to lose weight for health issues and that is the HUGE difference between this period of deciding to lose weight and the diets I went on in the past. Those who don't have the health issues yet and think this is a purely cosmetic issue, you WILL have problems later on if you don't address your weight issue now. I don't know one middle or later-aged overweight woman who isn't experiencing joint pain, shortness of breath, depression etc. When you are facing hip or knee replacement due to years of stress and wear on the joints from excess weight, you will want to lose weight no matter what the other issues may be regarding societal expectations...yada yada yada.

b) It isn't an issue of looks more than choices and comfort. I don't want to have to shop in "fat" stores for clothes. I don't want to dress in clothes that don't tuck in, etc. I want to look good because I know when I look good I feel good. I don't want to worry if I will fit in the airline seat, and I have had to undergo the HUMILIATION of asking for a seatbelt extender! I want to be able to ride any damn rollercoaster I want without worrying if I will fit in the seat. I want to be able to travel in my retirement as I have always dreamed and be able to walk , and climb and enjoy without pain and fatigue. If I don't get this weight under control and get my joints back in shape , I won't have my two weeks in Paris, or my trip to Venice, or the Taj Mahal, and Machu Picchu.

c) Feminism aside, and yes I define myself as a feminist (I remember women making less than men for the same job etc.), I still like men and their company. Yes I find it aggravating that men are not subjected to the same pressures as women but I think that is changing too. The men undergoing bariatric surgery, cosmetic surgery etc. is growing. I am not entirely sure that that is a good thing either, but at least some are starting to "know how it feels". Do I want to be attractive..well I am now...but I can be better..and again..when I look good and know I look good, it helps my mood.

I am really really going to get slammed for this but...could this be looking for an excuse NOT to have to address the weight issue at all, saying that it is just purely cosmetic reasons and societal pressures?
mollymom is offline  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:06 AM   #27  
Senior Member
 
guynna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 324

S/C/G: 283/see ticker/180?

Height: 5'9"

Default

I am really really going to get slammed for this but...could this be looking for an excuse NOT to have to address the weight issue at all, saying that it is just purely cosmetic reasons and societal pressures?

I can't figure out how to do the quote thing this early in the morning! -- I'm not sure what you mean -- what is the "this" that might be an excuse? (Sorry if it's obvious and I'm just asleep : )

I'm with you on the middle-age wake-up. I have not always been this heavy, but gaining it midlife was not a good idea. I want many of the things you do re: travel, comfort.
anita
guynna is offline  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:21 AM   #28  
Made of Starstuff
 
Lovely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 8,731

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by txsqlchick View Post
I'm unhealthy because of my weight. I'm losing weight to be healthy and an added benefit is that I'll be more attractive. To me that's empowering and isn't that what feminism is all about, fundamentally?
I see what you're saying. But, I disagree...I never really considered being more attractive as a feminist objective, but rather an idea that I should be treated with respect & equality regardless of how frumpy I am.

But that probably circles around to "What does feminism mean? Does it have core values/beliefs, or is it 'in the eye of the beholder'?"
Lovely is offline  
Old 08-22-2008, 08:38 AM   #29  
Made of Starstuff
 
Lovely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 8,731

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by meatymarty View Post
Do any of you ever get this reaction from your friends? Or feel like losing weight and thinking this much about your appearance is somehow anti-feminist? I don't think it is, but I feel strangely guilty a lot of the time. And I do feel so much more feminine now - its really strange.
Call me crazy, but I almost wished I got more responses like this from my friends. (You're right, be careful what I wish for.)

I see three separate issues here. Dieting. Physical attractiveness. Feminism.

They may interweave at points, but I don't consider them one and the same. Losing some extra pounds to live a healthy life has nothing to do with feminism. What's wrong with watching what we eat, moving more and respecting our bodies? I can actually think of nothing more feminist than appreciating my body and nuturing it so it can continue to be good to me. Then again, there's that line... if I'm losing weight because my boss says I could "get ahead" if I was thinner or something...

There is nothing wrong with feeling good about ourselves. There's nothing wrong with being pretty. Or heck, even gorgeous. And most people brush their hair & teeth before they leave the house in the morning. I doubt they're bringing down the sisterhood of all women around the world. The line is crossed when it goes from feeling confident about yourself and the way you look to being consumed by the way you look and how it should make you feel. (And when we allow others to treat us based on appearance.)

You don't have to tell your friends the whole truth of what you're doing if it means that they will be contrary just to be contrary. Not really their business anyways.

But, if you really wanted to get on their stones about feminism and your body, just mention that you're trying to get in touch with, and appreciate yourself more. And eating what your body truly craves is one of those things. That's something all feminists can eat up, right?
Lovely is offline  
Old 08-22-2008, 09:25 AM   #30  
change
 
ollie27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: this side of the Mississippi
Posts: 468

S/C/G: 169/ticker/healthy

Height: 5'3" ish?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guynna View Post
Ditto the "healthy for a long time" thing.

I wonder though about saying "feminism is an individual" philosophy; does that mean that "feminism" doesn't mean anything? Or that there is a core principle that is enacted in many ways? (The shelter director who apparently didn't respect her clients was not imo enacting anything like feminism! but there is room for difference.) I'm not advocating a monolithic, litmus-test, party-line scenario, but.... Is there a core?

What do y'all think? I'm enjoying this thread.
anita
i've always said that the core of feminist philosophy is what the dictionary tells you if you look it up. i think i posted this earlier, but most define the word feminism as "a movement towards political, social, and economical equality". it's only a sentence, but it says a heck of a lot.

but then you have to ask: what is equality?

do we want to be treated the same as man? this as always been sort of hyperbolic in nature. in the seventies, most of the academic and activist feminists were pushing towards androgyny, or gender neutrality. in the 90s there was a back lash. a sort of "i'm a feminist and i wear a thong dammit!" sort of like the lipstick lesbian thing goin on at the same time. which took us back to square one. again. what is a feminist?

even way back when, when the suffragist movement began and feminism started pervading society but didn't really have a name, no one could agree on it. should women vote? why just white women and not black? does women's rights only pertain to one race?

point it: since the movement began we cannot even agree on what the **** the movement is or what direction we are headed, where we are going, much less even a friggin defintion for the word feminist

how are we going to make progress?

mollymom - you say you remember when women were paid less for the same job? i do too! it was just this morning! women still earn $0.76 for every $1.00 that men earn for the same job.

i've had people in my classes tell me when i am on my soapbox "get over it, olivia, women's lib happened. we're equal." ack! we're not. not when it comes to politics (13% of US government position are held by women while we make up the majority of the population) not when it comes to society (rape, burkhas, domestic abuse, etc.) economy (see above) not even when it comes to fat.

fat is a feminist issue.

society holds it is less acceptable for women to be overweight. period. it is society that tells us to be underweight. thin is a feminist issue as well folks. it is this same society that feeds us garbage vis fast food joints and FDA approvals. it is this same society that tells us we don't have time to make our own dinners (americans work more hours than other industrialized nations). it is this same society that earns millions of dollars in campaigns by presenting to young girls a photoshopped image that is a map to what they should look like.

and society is winning because we as a gender fail to band together to give it a collective finger. and we can start by open honest discussion and education. be honest with ourselves and others. yeah, at times when you feel like not going in to it a mere 'i got heartburn' will do, but as women we need to be able to talk about all of this.

ya know?

stepping down
ollie27 is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.