[slow2lose]

I haven't started IP yet but one of the things mentioned in in the info session is how the smallest amount of carb can kick you out of ketosis.

What exactly does that mean physiologically and how detrimental is it? What exactly can kick you "out of ketosis". Things as small as one coffee creamer? A few teaspoons of 2% milk in your tea? Or is is more like an entire apple or banana?

Not that I plan on sabotaging the program - I'm just looking to learn more about ketosis and exactly how it works. I like info. If anyone can point me to an article or website please do and thanks. :-)

[scorbett1103]

Ketosis is when your body has used up its glycogen stores and starts using your fat stores as fuel. This diet (and other ketogenic diets) depletes your carbs so that the fuel your body has to work with is your fat stores.

When you are getting into ketosis-mode, you may be VERY hungry, a little dizzy/lightheaded, fatigued...it's your body switching over its processing.

Some folks are very carb sensitive and small slips can push them over the edge quickly out of ketosis. Others have a higher threshold and can stay in ketosis even with a 20-30 carb slip. But in general, because this diet is ALSO about learning better habits and not making excuses to continue eating the way we did before starting IP, it is better NOT to try and figure out how much you can "get away with" and just follow the diet. Slips happen, we are all human - but trying to figure out where the line is for you may be too tempting - better to commit 100% and just go with it

[darbs7]

If you are interested in IP, you should follow the plan 100% or maybe try another low-carb plan like South Beach or Suzanne Somers that allow fruit.

With that said, to answer the question. I have been in maintenance for about 16 months. I "reboot" occasionally to drop a few pounds after a vacation or such. It takes me about 3 days to get into ketosis (maybe 2.5) and it takes about 100 net carbs and sometimes several bad days in a row to knock myself out. I have had 50-60 carbs and think that I am out but if I jump back on in the morning I am not.....but this is how I handled maintenance.

When I was on phase I....just 100% protocol and nothing less. when I did it, it was stricter too. We could not mix packets and meat at dinner and we couldn't mix veggies with morning packets (I noticed a ton of people do this now).

[JohnP]

With all due respect to the posts preceding mine they are not scientifically accurate.

If you want to know everything there is to know about ketosis you can read the book Ketogenic diet by Lyle Mcdonald.

The short version is - ketosis means you have raised levels of ketone bodies in the body and your brain is using fat keone bodies for fuel. Ketosis is not an on/off switch, there are levels of ketosis. You won't get "kicked out" of ketosis by having a small amount of creamer in your coffee. I'm not an IP coach but if you keep the total calories for the day of creamer under 25 I'd say you've just fine.

You're going to get a lot of grief around here is you don't stay 100% on plan so I'd keep your coffee and creamer a secret.

Last thing - ketosis isn't magic. Calories dictate fat loss or gain.

[scorbett1103]

John - have you thought about just starting a Lyle McDonald forum, rather than constantly pitching it here? I can appreciate differing opinions, but seriously.

And nobody will crucify ANY member of this board for using creamer. We support each other and help each other try to be as successful as possible. To imply otherwise is to suggest that what happens here is mean-spirited, which is the opposite of the truth.

[JohnP]

Originally Posted by scorbett1103

John - have you thought about just starting a Lyle McDonald forum, rather than constantly pitching it here? I can appreciate differing opinions, but seriously.

And nobody will crucify ANY member of this board for using creamer. We support each other and help each other try to be as successful as possible. To imply otherwise is to suggest that what happens here is mean-spirited, which is the opposite of the truth.

It's not a matter of opinion. Ketosis is not some magic thing we don't understand. The science is well understood. If you want to understand the science, in depth, you should read Lyle's book. This is a fact. There are other books I'm sure but I am not aware of them. Thus I reccomend the book I have read.

[Edit] - By the way you really seem interested in the science so I think you would rather enjoy Lyle's style of presenting information.

On the support - I agree this forum is great at support. It is also rather dogmatic for being 100% OP which in my opinion is good for those who can do it but for those who can't? A little bit of creamer in coffee won't make a single bit of difference. 25 calories a day, every day, would amount to a theorical difference of less than 3 lbs over the course of a year but if it helps someone stay compliant to the rest of the protocol because it helps them keep their sanity I would argue it is completely worth it.

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by scorbett1103

And nobody will crucify ANY member of this board for using creamer. We support each other and help each other try to be as successful as possible. To imply otherwise is to suggest that what happens here is mean-spirited, which is the opposite of the truth.

I agree with this. Plenty of people aren't 100% and I have read many times, that it is your choice and you make it.

This forum is wonderfully supportive, and I could not be on this diet without it.

[scorbett1103]

Lyle McDonald is also not the inventor or originator of Ketogenic diets. I'm sure in your research you have found plenty of information in fitness and bodybuilding circles regarding Cyclical ketogenic diets that go beyond what Mr. McDonald has written. Nobody said ketosis was "magic", it is extremely scientific and one of the amazing ways our body is able to adapt to changing circumstances.

Not wanting to take away from the OP, I will leave it there. If you would like to address anything with me personally, my message box is open

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by JohnP

A little bit of creamer in coffee won't make a single bit of difference. 25 calories a day, every day, would amount to a theorical difference of less than 3 lbs over the course of a year but if it helps someone stay compliant to the rest of the protocol because it helps them keep their sanity I would argue it is completely worth it.

For me (and obviously not everyone), a little bit of creamer could act like a gateway to more creamer and more cheating. This diet isn't made for such things. A lot of us like that the choices are limited.

Before I started, the creamer thing was my largest worry. I just didn't use it and now I don't even want it.

But as you said, a single creamer by itself will not get a person out of ketosis.

[Mufassia]

As many others on this forum, am not 100% and I am still a tremendous loser

That said, the things you chose to cheat with make a huge difference. Everyone has different results; some need 100% or nothing for dedication. Others, like myself, are strict for only the most part. Although, I do have to kick myself back into 100% if the cheating gets out of hand.

Now, some things that are NOT detrimental to my weight loss; cooked onions, tomatoes regularly, more than 2 oz of non-fat milk, a bit more meat and/or olive oil. If you want to cheat with fruit, and this is directly from my coach, apples and bananas are the worst, waaaaaay too much sugar; strawberries and plums are much better.

Lastly, if you choose to cheat a little here and there, permit only 1 or 2 cheats from the above at most a day. If you start to notice you aren't losing very well, fall back to 100% for 3-5 days, then cheat 1 day and keep alternating like that.

I've also noticed, the timing intervals between IP meals make a big difference for me. There is also the option of eating a regular IP packet in place of a snack on days you want to cheat or periods when you want to lose more and faster.

Hope that helps.

[slow2lose]

Guys I specifically said I wasn't planning on sabotaging my diet by cheating but I was curious how physiologically one could get kicked out of ketosis and what would cause that to happen.

I'm also very interested in learning about how the body uses the macronutrients - ESP where lifting weights and cardio is concerned, and I'm very interested to understand the physiology behind why you should not exercise on this program although I'm beginning to think there is a simpler answer than what I thought. I think it's simply due to the extremely low cals and energy (or lack thereof) level.

I am one of those ppl that need to understand stuff - whether it's a medical procedure or a new piece of electronics or a diet.

John - I was going to PM you but I can't yet - I have some questions.

[Mufassia]

I have found that swimming and weight lifting is the worst.

My theory is this:

Muscle kills fat and the amount of protein and fuel we dieters take in is just enough to sustain that functionality. The minute you start to overexert your muscles, like swimming or weight lifting, they do not have the capacity to upkeep killing off the fat.

This is obviously a very delicate balance, because you would think, well why not eat more protein. But the calories and carbs kick back up when you do - no good for ketosis.

My coach says, if I do any physical activity where I am sweating for more than 10 mins, to eat an extra packet of protein a day. This technique upholds my theory above. I am an avid dancer, and the second I also got back in the pool for lap swimming, my diet took a big nose dive....

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by Mufassia

This is obviously a very delicate balance, because you would think, well why not eat more protein. But the calories and carbs kick back up when you do - no good for ketosis.

What I do is have an extra protein drink afterwards, which only adds a limited amount of calories and only a couple carbs. Keeps me inline with the diet, and I stay in ketosis.

But then again, I'm not as active as you are, so it may not help you.

[Mufassia]

Starshine, I meant meat protein

[Starshine]

Originally Posted by Mufassia

Starshine, I meant meat protein

And being vegetarian, I know nothing about that (truly).