[beautifulone]

I watched Dr. Phil today and the show was entitled "The Fat Debate". Did anyone watch it? What did you think?

[luciddepths]

It was on here at work but i couldnt hear anything on it. What happened in it?

[beautifulone]

Originally Posted by luciddepths

It was on here at work but i couldnt hear anything on it. What happened in it?

I didn't think it was great, or even good. There were 2 opposing panels and a ton of arguing going back and forth. I suppose it was a "debate", but they kept cutting each other off and no real discussion took place. I found Kelly made a few meaningful comments, including that finding the motivation to lose weight truly is difficult. It's not just a matter of "oh, get off the couch". She basically said "it's one of the hardest things ever".

Dr. Phil said little aside from stating that obesity is a proven health risk and introducing a physician who explained that some people do have medical conditions (body chemistry, hormones, etc.) that make weight loss extremely difficult. These conditions need to be addressed.

I thought the show didn't address anything as much as it simply demonstrated how strongly some people feel against obesity and overweight/obese girls confirming that they feel discriminated against and it's bull$&HT.

[Everlasting]

Yeah, it was on at work and I thought it was ridiculous and didn't really discuss anything. They just kept cutting each other off and arguing. I don't think anyone said a full sentence through most of the thing.

[chickiegirl]

I watched a little of it - but it didn't seem like anything that productive. I've really enjoyed Tyra's shows on getting healthy though. I like her nutritionist - she talks about making a healthy choice as well as a satisfying one. I think there was one scenario when the hot dog was actually the best choice!!

[SalaamDementia]

Tyra did a show like this as well, last week I think. It was mainly geared towards discrimination against obese/overweight people. There was some actual discussion, but the things people were saying in such a hateful way about overweight people were horrible.

[SickCycleCarousel]

According to a psychology class I took in college, overweight/obese people are the most discriminated against group in the US, more so than homosexuals, people of different races or religions, or the elderly. It's harder for obese people to get jobs, get promoted, get a bank loan, and adopt a child. Obese people fare worse in court; they receive subtle discrimination from doctors, and are passed over for college scholarships and letters of recommendation from professors. NOTE: These claims come from social science studies I read during college.

Whether obesity is causing these things or not is debatable. As anyone who has taken a social science class knows, correlation does not equate causation. There might be some third variable, think a personality trait, that people who have a tendency to be overweight share and it is that trait that is leading to the unequal treatment. Or maybe when people are turned down from jobs, it leads to depression which leads to weight gain. Who knows?

It would be nice to see people having a legitimate conversation about these things. Since obesity has been shown to coincide with a myriad of health risks, can the unequal treatment be seen as legitimate? Is it fair for an overweight person to pay more for health insurance? Is that discrimination? Statistics show that overweight people will have more health problems so shouldn't they pay more? Or take another example people talk about a lot. Is it fair to make overweight people pay for 2 seats on a plane? Should airline companies be forced to make bigger seats to accommodate large people? Should the world change to meet the needs of obese people or the other way around?

I personally think it is wrong to assume bad things about a person because he or she is obese, but at the same time, there are legitimate health concerns associated with obesity and I can understand why certain jobs might not want to hire someone for those reasons. (More sick days, more insurance costs, if the job requires physical exertion obese people will be less productive).

It's not really a black and white debate. Any opinions?
http://morethanmediocrity.wordpress.com/

[squishysquirrel]

Originally Posted by SickCycleCarousel

According to a psychology class I took in college, overweight/obese people are the most discriminated against group in the US, more so than homosexuals, people of different races or religions, or the elderly. It's harder for obese people to get jobs, get promoted, get a bank loan, and adopt a child. Obese people fare worse in court; they receive subtle discrimination from doctors, and are passed over for college scholarships and letters of recommendation from professors. NOTE: These claims come from social science studies I read during college.

Whether obesity is causing these things or not is debatable. As anyone who has taken a social science class knows, correlation does not equate causation. There might be some third variable, think a personality trait, that people who have a tendency to be overweight share and it is that trait that is leading to the unequal treatment. Or maybe when people are turned down from jobs, it leads to depression which leads to weight gain. Who knows?

It would be nice to see people having a legitimate conversation about these things. Since obesity has been shown to coincide with a myriad of health risks, can the unequal treatment be seen as legitimate? Is it fair for an overweight person to pay more for health insurance? Is that discrimination? Statistics show that overweight people will have more health problems so shouldn't they pay more? Or take another example people talk about a lot. Is it fair to make overweight people pay for 2 seats on a plane? Should airline companies be forced to make bigger seats to accommodate large people? Should the world change to meet the needs of obese people or the other way around?

I personally think it is wrong to assume bad things about a person because he or she is obese, but at the same time, there are legitimate health concerns associated with obesity and I can understand why certain jobs might not want to hire someone for those reasons. (More sick days, more insurance costs, if the job requires physical exertion obese people will be less productive).

It's not really a black and white debate. Any opinions?
http://morethanmediocrity.wordpress.com/

I like the way you think. Overweight and obese people are discriminated against. I've seen it especially when I was on my OBGYN rotation in medical school. Dr. Phil probably meant well with the "debate", but it was painful to watch and pointless. I was disturbed by the guy who was wearing the "no chubbies" t-shirt and felt that all overweight people are lazy and can change themselves if they wanted too (it's extremely hard to find the motivation to make a lifestyle change). I was also disturbed by the morbidly obese women on the show who were saying that 80-90% of obesity is genetic (I know for a fact that she made that statistic up) and that there is no health risk for being obese (the same lady said that she was 62 and not on medications, but what she didn't tell us was when was the last time she saw a physician because there are millions of people walking around with diseases unaware because they never go for a yearly physical and bloodwork). Jillian and the physician on the show made an agreement to help one of the obese women out with losing weight, which I thought was wonderful and so did the woman apparently, but I was disgusted when another one of the obese women tried to interfere and told her that she didn't need to change her body weight. This was actually coming from the same lady who was throwing out fake statistics and saying there is no association with obesity and health problems. Maybe she's happy being morbidly obese, but she has no right interfering with somebody else trying to lose weight.
Why couldn't the show be about losing weight and becoming healthier instead of having two discriminating panels to argue with each other? What a waste of my time. And I thought I'd watch it and get some great hints on how to improve my weight loss journey. Oh well.

[stellarosa27]

Okay - so I'm getting my master's in health science. There are a lot of behavior change models that we learn about, and one of them that's used for weight loss kind of sort of explains this "why can't people just get off the couch" - Because they don't think they can do it!

In this behavior change model, in order to successfully change a health behavior, you need to be aware that you're at some sort of threat, but also be aware that there's a benefit to you changing, and the benefit outweighs the barriers. So, if you need to lose weight, you're excuses can be "oh, I'm too busy, I can't work out, food is expensive, etc." So you teach people - you can get gym discounts, break up your exercise, buy frozen veggies, not fresh" and you're showing them how to decrease their barriers - but then you're also giving them "self-efficacy." You're giving them the belief and tools that they can do it.

I'm sure most of us know that the biggest stumbling block in weight loss is yourself. YOU have to believe that YOU CAN DO IT. And I think for a lot of overweight people in this country, they've just been beaten to the point of self-acceptance that they CAN'T do it. There are so many commercials/programs for the "quick weight loss fix" - they get their self-efficacy - oh, this looks so EASY, I can do this - but then when they're not "Slim in 6 weeks" they lose it, and they feel as if they've failed, and the cycle starts over.

All of this arguing and bickering and telling people YOU'RE FAT JUST EXERCISE AND EAT LESS doesn't help. We all know that yes, it is that simple, but that simplicity is SO HARD, and I think that just goes on and on.

And I do think its fair to charge more money for health insurance (same with smokers and other health conditions) and make larger people pay for 2 plane seats - yes, you have the right to be overweight, but that doesn't mean you have the right to make other people uncomfortable on planes OR you have the right to make others' insurance premiums go up because of your health problems. Its a question of fairness. While you have the right to make poor health choices, I shouldn't have to pay YOUR poor health choices. And studies have shown that by hitting people in the pocketbook, they do change their health behaviors (smoking is a big example of this).

[catherinees2007]

Originally Posted by stellarosa27

Okay - so I'm getting my master's in health science. There are a lot of behavior change models that we learn about, and one of them that's used for weight loss kind of sort of explains this "why can't people just get off the couch" - Because they don't think they can do it!

In this behavior change model, in order to successfully change a health behavior, you need to be aware that you're at some sort of threat, but also be aware that there's a benefit to you changing, and the benefit outweighs the barriers. So, if you need to lose weight, you're excuses can be "oh, I'm too busy, I can't work out, food is expensive, etc." So you teach people - you can get gym discounts, break up your exercise, buy frozen veggies, not fresh" and you're showing them how to decrease their barriers - but then you're also giving them "self-efficacy." You're giving them the belief and tools that they can do it.

I'm sure most of us know that the biggest stumbling block in weight loss is yourself. YOU have to believe that YOU CAN DO IT. And I think for a lot of overweight people in this country, they've just been beaten to the point of self-acceptance that they CAN'T do it. There are so many commercials/programs for the "quick weight loss fix" - they get their self-efficacy - oh, this looks so EASY, I can do this - but then when they're not "Slim in 6 weeks" they lose it, and they feel as if they've failed, and the cycle starts over.

All of this arguing and bickering and telling people YOU'RE FAT JUST EXERCISE AND EAT LESS doesn't help. We all know that yes, it is that simple, but that simplicity is SO HARD, and I think that just goes on and on.

And I do think its fair to charge more money for health insurance (same with smokers and other health conditions) and make larger people pay for 2 plane seats - yes, you have the right to be overweight, but that doesn't mean you have the right to make other people uncomfortable on planes OR you have the right to make others' insurance premiums go up because of your health problems. Its a question of fairness. While you have the right to make poor health choices, I shouldn't have to pay YOUR poor health choices. And studies have shown that by hitting people in the pocketbook, they do change their health behaviors (smoking is a big example of this).

If you're so worried about having to pay for health insurance and the like for obese people, then target the fast food industries and the price of healthy foods instead of attacking obese people. The fast food industries are really the reason people are obese. The fast food industry's survival is dependent on making people fat and addicted to their food. You don't knowingly and purposely place every obstacle you can in front of a person to losing weight and then expect them to overcome it. If you're really concerned about the cost of taking care of obese people, then you would seek to make it easier for them to lose weight instead of doing nothing about the obstacles and expecting obese people to overcome those odds all by themselves. **************************

[JoJoJo2]

Originally Posted by catherinees2007

If you're so worried about having to pay for health insurance and the like for obese people, then target the fast food industries and the price of healthy foods instead of attacking obese people. The fast food industries are really the reason people are obese. The fast food industry's survival is dependent on making people fat and addicted to their food. You don't knowingly and purposely place every obstacle you can in front of a person to losing weight and then expect them to overcome it. If you're really concerned about the cost of taking care of obese people, then you would seek to make it easier for them to lose weight instead of doing nothing about the obstacles and expecting obese people to overcome those odds all by themselves. If you're still insistent about obese people losing weight or else be discriminated against and that it's not the food industries' fault only the obese people's fault, then you're really just a jerk who enjoys putting fat people down, and all you have is self serving excuses for your views.

How do you plan to target the fast food industries? Are you planning to boycott them? Are you going to legislate them out of existence? Or are you really planning to physically destroy them so no one can ever enjoy a burger with fries, ever again?

The fast food industries are in business to make money, and they are very successful at it. This is the American Dream!!!

So instead let's teach people about healthy eating and exercise. Let's let people know about portion control. Let's focus on education, in a positive way.

I learned all this stuff, and lost a lot of weight. I still stop in at a Burger King once in a while, and I like being able to do that.

I am the one that holds the fork. I am the one who puts the food in my mouth. I am the one who is responsible for what I eat. I may be tempted by what the fast food industry is selling, but I have the power to just say "No." Blaming a whole industry for obesity is missing the individual responsibility for the obesity epidemic.

There are lots of success stories here at 3fc, so it can be done and it has been done.

[Tanna Banana]

I agree with everything you said JoJo2.

Not everyone that's obese is a fast food junkie. My DH is at least 100 lbs overweight and NEVER eats fast food (maybe three times a year). Targeting that industry would do nothing to help him with the weight loss journey he's on. Blaming fast food for obesity is easy- and yes it does effect a lot of people- but I think the bigger problem lies in individual responsibility.

It's not the industry's fault that people choose to eat there. They aren't holding guns to people's heads and commanding them to dine. Many people that choose fast food are not educated about nutrition or exercise or just flat out feel like they don'thave the time/money to invest in eating healthy. Or they want fast food and will continue to eat it because it is their dining preference. It's great that there are "healthier" menu options in many restaraunts now, but you can't force John Doe to order a salad if what he really wants is a burger. The freedom to choose what we want to eat comes with consequences- good and bad.

It is a misconception that you cannot eat healthy foods for a decent price. Healty food CAN be affordable. Healthy CONVENIENCE food is VERY expensive. Eating healthy at a cheaper price often requires more time and preparation in the kitchen. A balanced meal of chicken, broccoli and potatoes doesn't really cost that much per serving... especially if you buy bone-in/skin-on chicken breast and prepare it yourself. But it takes time. It's not convenient, and hence, a lot of people *think* they can't do it. Re-educating people about what affordable foods are healthy and HOW to prepare them is the ticket. It ain't going to come out of a box or a bag.

I'll step off my soapbox now.

[fatferretfanatic]

I don't think you can target a fast food chain for selling a product that people buy knowing that it is not good for you. That would also be saying that every product that does not always promote good health should be removed from the market. Have alcoholism? Obviously it's the alcohol companies' faults. Candy bars making kids fat? Well, blame the candy companies! Does that sound logical? I don't think that it does. You can't set the blame on something else-people choose to buy fast food, and want that option. If you say that people can no longer sell fast foods, you open the barn door for all sorts of restrictions on products. One has to take responsibility for one's actions and decisions. This is not to say that motivation isn't one of the hardest things ever, especially for weight loss. Holy cow, it sure is! People with weight problems can't be generalized as lazy or undisciplined either-many overwieght people spend most of their lives being more disciplined or as disciplined as people without weight issues. Blaming a fast food corporation is blaming the symptom and not treating the illness. Fast food doesn't make people fat inherently by existing. People eat it and become less healthy. Plenty of people make the choice to cut down on it or eliminate it from their lives. Let people make their own choices, and then they have all of the power to change their weight, life, or attitude. It's getting on to making that choice in the first place that is difficult.

[christine123]

Something to consider here is there is a fair number of people who have eating disorders - binging, compulsive overeating, etc. That disordered thinking and complicated/unhealthy relationship with food needs to be worked out or weight re-gain is inevitable. I am curious if he addressed that at all? Especially being a psychologist.

[Bellamack]

Parents are responsible for obese children

I was on a East to West coast flight recently and an extremely obese woman sat next to me. She had to sit kind of sideways and part of her back and butt came over the arm rest into me. It was extremely uncomfortable. She was a very nice lady, but, really? About half way through the flight the attendant said that there was an empty seat upfront if I wanted it. I felt bad for the heavy woman, but she should have had to buy 2 seats.

People make choices about everything everyday. Should I walk in front of the moving car or wait til it passes. Should I jump in the lake even though I can't swim. Should I eat fast food or stop and get some chicken breast and grill it at home with a salad and fresh fruit?