Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-31-2006, 10:33 PM   #1  
Michigan Old-Timer
Thread Starter
 
thinthinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 3,324

Default Old Hens - 40+ And Ready to Lose - Volume #37

WELCOME !!!!!!
This thread is a sub-set of the 300+ thread.

This group is for those dealing with the challenges of having a significant amount of weight to lose and being fit which becomes harder after age 40. If you're an old or new friend and not over 40 and feel this is the place to post, jump right in.
thinthinker is offline  
Old 01-31-2006, 11:08 PM   #2  
determined to lose
 
garnetfairy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sugar Land Texas
Posts: 234

Default

ha ha I found you all
garnetfairy is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 01:02 AM   #3  
Senior Member
 
elmay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 201

S/C/G: 305/247/<200

Height: 5'9"

Default

Wow, so nice to see everyone & so many new people!

It's been a crazy week -- the good thing is that I didn't get too far off plan, and I have been able to get back on plan. I have been doing this now for 5 months -- woot! Although I have lost weight in the past and have worked out, I think this is the longest time I've been able to stay consistent with it -- even through family drama, holidays, business trips, etc... All the stuff that would throw me off track for a couple of weeks, couple of months, or couple of decades I know this is just the start, but it sure feels good.
elmay is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 02:15 AM   #4  
Senior Member
 
elmay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 201

S/C/G: 305/247/<200

Height: 5'9"

Default

Hey, Valerie, I got a set of resistance bands at Garts (aka Sports Authority aka SportsMart) for $20. Since I'm going to be traveling 2 weeks in February, I wanted something I could take with me to do my strength training. My trainer came up with an upper body workout that I did tonight -- on Thursday, we're going to do lower body. The set of bands fits into a cute little traveling case about 8" square. I know there's not a lot of room in a truck, but seems like it might be a way to keep OP with exercise while you're traveling & can't find an open Curves. Trips have been one of my big falling-off-the-wagon problems in the past, so I'm really looking for ways to keep that from happening.

Dang, I'm jealous of everyone's good weather . We've had rain & clouds since the start of December -- and I'm not exaggerating (too much anyway ). I had to go up to Seattle this weekend and was so thrilled to see about 1/2 of the sky blue. The good thing about the Pacific Northwest is that when the sun does come out it's gorgeous -- everything is so green and we have the most awesome sunsets & sunrises.

BarbPA, what a beautiful boy! I am sure you are quite busy, but I'm sure it is wonderful also. Watching a baby grow up has to be one of the biggest miracles -- it's amazing how much they change every day -- I remember when Andre was little -- it was like watching the light come on in a room to see him become aware of the world. It still is like that sometimes -- just not as much day-to-day change now that he's three.

And, fawnice, I just saw your "help" post -- I am sure you have already gotten a lot of help, but just wanted to add my $0.02 and welcome. I am beginning to think that each time we try to lose weight and fail, we are learning for the time when we can really make it stick. I am hoping this is the time for me. But, I have been through this try/fail/try/fail/etc... until it works cycle with smoking (smoke-free since 1988, and I was smoking 2 packs a day of Marlboro Reds when I quit) and drinking (sober > 6 years), so I know that I can eventually get through this too.

And, as far as the exercise part goes, I say "jump in". From what I've read, it is good to try to do weight lifting or strength training from the very start along with cardio. I've belonged to women-only gyms in Colorado and California. When I was looking for a gym in Oregon, I looked around for women-only gyms, but there wasn't anything really convenient to my work/home. So, I joined a huge co-ed gym and just started moving. At first, I couldn't do much -- only 20 minutes of cardio and I had to go very slow. But, I've worked up to a lot more. I put my headphones on and my fast beat music, and just close out the rest of the world. There are lots of young, slim women at my gym and some very buff men. But, there are also a lot of scrawny guys and very large men & women. Maybe it's because I'm > 40 and happy in my relationship so I'm not looking for romance there , but I have been surprised at how comfortable I do feel.

Iwillbe, I know what you mean about kids and the computer! Between 18 y/o son, 24 y/o daughter, 10 y/o niece (surfing porn sites no less!), it is a wonder I can keep the computer up and going. One thing you may want to look into is one of the Internet firewall packages. My internet provider (Comcast Cable) offers the McAfee package free. Since I put that on and started running the virus checker, the computer has been a lot healthier. I can also block off websites and the like. Not sure how "hackproof" the package is, but none of the kids is into hacking, so it hasn't been a problem.

I love all the horse stories on here. One of the things that motivated me to lose weight was this class I took for work. Not sure how to explain the class & how it related to work (so I won't try! ), but the first week of the class was on a dude ranch in Steamboat Springs, Colorado in June last summer and we rode horses every day. I had so much angst about that! I was afraid they would look at me and say, "God, you're fat! You're going to kill our horses -- no way!" Since I was taking this class with two colleagues from work, I didn't want to look bad in front of them. Especially since one of them grew up on a ranch in Montana. Oh, and did I mention that I'd only ridden a horse three times in my life -- the first time was bareback and I fell off the horse's butt going up hill & couldn't get back on. (I was afraid to grab onto it because I didn't want to make it mad ). The next two times were on horse rides in National Parks where the horses might as well be tied together (but the scenery was lovely). So, I was very anxious. But, it all went well! My horse was able to carry me and himself up and down the hills, we rode fast (trotting mostly although I got into a canter once I think -- that's the "next gear"?), and me and my team beat my cowboy colleagues' team once (out of three times) in the cattle moving competition at the end! Anyway, that class was sort of the start of my path towards getting healthy, so I have fond memories and who knows, maybe I'll get into horses someday .

Hey, MichelleK! Just saw your post saying you liked seeing those hellos .

Lilion, woot on 250! I'm looking forward to joining you there soon .

Wendyinnm, welcome! New Mexico is such a beautiful place. I'm looking forward to the cool places we can take Andre when he gets a bit older -- the southwest is definitely on the list. This spring, it's Orlando and DisneyWorld .

I know I've missed a bunch of folks, and probably got everything all out of order, but I've got to hit the hay (as my father used to say ).

Here's hoping everyone has an OP day tomorrow and is kind to themselves!
elmay is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 07:51 AM   #5  
Senior Member
 
Terri in MO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,197

S/C/G: 278/267.2/180

Height: 5'7"

Default

Good morning ladies,

I got up and did work with the hand weights and the stability ball. I've been awake since 4 am so I've been watching some DVD's from work. I was so exhausted last night that I went to bed before 8:30 so no wonder I was awake so early.

I took off a half-day yesterday. We went to do a drive-by at one other place and said, nope. Richard and Linda drove down to the other place just to get a third opinion. We walked the pasture and talked about the type of grass it is and whether it would need reseeding and how to do fencing etc. They loved the place. He offered to bring down his tractor and bobcat to help us build fence and even build a small pond.

So off to the realtor we went. The guy we've been dealing with is an older guy who didn't list the place and didn't really know much. He didn't even try to sell the place. So we met with the broker who is the office owner. I took one look and thought slimeball. The office is in a small town so we're talking about low-functioning agents. We are in the middle of discussions and he says, "now I have to be honest" which made my brain go uh-oh. This place has been on the market for at least four months with no buyers because no one wanted just 3 acres and no one asked about land. We called on Sunday and said we wanted to make an offer. Well, lo and behold, someone else puts a contract on it that very same day as we were coming. And it is just on the three acres. I almost had a meltdown. WTF! Of course, that offer was really lowballed and he was confident that the seller wouldn't want the lowball offer. I was already prepared (probably stupidly) to pay the price we had been discussing because of them paying $3500 in closing cost and getting them to pay $1500 for a land survey. DH was going to offer a little less but not much since it seems a fair price to us considering all the other places we have looked in that price range. Maybe we are stupid for thinking that but I'm not a hard-core negotiator. If I like it and it fits what I want, then I buy it. DH sucks at making buying arrangements and he is a hard-core salesman himself. He only works it on the selling end and not on the buying end. We gave them an offer which the slime guy kept saying, I'll present this first, this is probably more to the owners liking, I'm confident this is the best deal, Here's what I think. Our bank sent a letter showing how much they would approve us for which is more than this place is selling for. I think they saw that and slimeball decided to go for as much as he could right off. We couldn't come back with a low offer if we didn't want to lose the chance of having the place. Almost makes you wonder what's wrong with the place. We're waiting to hear back to see if they accept our offer or the other. There is a possibility that they work the other offer up and not have to sell any of the family farm acreage and reject our offer. Last night I felt like one eyeball would just explode. I told DH that I wanted to reach across the table and just punch that guy right in the nose. I did not like him at all. I kept saying on the way home, dirty rotten slimeball. We also made it clear that we have to sell our house first so it has to be on a contingency. Wait and see.

Michelle - Wow, that was a terrible day yesterday. What is the prognosis for John's fracture? How long will he be off? :hugs: Hope today is less stressful.

Valerie - Good luck with your venture as well. If we get this place, we'd like to add five more acres in a year or two. The Equine Academy is an eight-week program sponsored by Purina. Each week is a different topic - bits, reproduction, pre-purchase check, etc. Plus it is at the most magnificant horse barn I have ever seen. We're guessing its a $15 million facility which Jan and I are not sure why they even let us in!

Wendy - Last night's dinner was a big salad and a bag of Lean Cuisine's garlic chicken. I like the bag of LC better than the boxes. It makes a great spur of the moment meal that is lower in calories and fat. Not sure about tonight yet.

Okay, I better hit the shower and off to work.
Terri in MO is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 11:38 AM   #6  
aka Valerie
 
NoLifeWithoutHorses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Outside of Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,316

S/C/G: 350/345/195

Default

Elmay, The rubber bands are a great idea. I think my husband already has a set somewhere, and he USED to have them on the truck back in my "I'm fat and don't know (am too lazy) to change" days. I never got into them because I didn't really know what kind of routine to do, it seemed boring, and... I was a lazy bum. Now that you've reminded me, I'll have to have him drag them out and learn what to do. I've started craving regular exercise enough that I've even tried doing leg lifts & things - LOTS of fun going down the road hitting all the whoopee bumps not. *** I loved your story about the ranch. I've only worked cattle one time back when my quarter horse was a youngster. I think he'd have been great at it and we really had fun, but it was expensive and we never got another chance. Sounds like you had an awesome time. I'm looking forward to being able to rent horses and ride out West some day soon. Right now I'm still over a reasonable weight for a poor horse to carry for very long, very fast or very far, and it would make me so sore I can't imagine how long I'd be crippled I do hope you got to canter at least a little. On most horses it's much smoother than their trot - which can sometimes be like riding a jack-hammer. My old guy had the lovelyest trot in the universe, which I will always miss. This young horse I have is so powerful and has such a different way of moving, it's going to be a whole new adventure. I can hardly wait!

Good grief, Terri - sounds like you got the realtor from you know. I don't much care for any of them. I don't know how such worthless bumpkins can earn a living if they refuse to talk to buyers! Bill finally just showed up at the agents office that's supposed to be selling the place we want. The guy was there but supposedly in "a meeting" so he had Bill talk to another woman in the office. She & Bill hit it off, and she told him ALL kinds of things about the property, the owner & prior offers, some of which she probably shouldn't have, but she said SHE didn't represent the seller and she gave us lots of info to help point us in the right direction to make offers on different pieces of the place... including telling us to come DOWN $20k on one of them We'd love to have the whole thing & mine out some of the back acreage to level some of the banks & hills and put a large pond in. The mine is just across the expressway, and from the back corner of the place we could pop the gravel trucks out onto the road, under the underpass and into the next driveway of the mine. We could easily pay the place off in 3-5 years, but capital is a problem of course. We'll see how much we can handle and go from there. If we don't get the back acres, it's highly likely that the gravel mine will buy it. They'd take out more than I'd wish, but it beats condos going in, and after they've "reclaimed" it and put the top soil back, we might be able to get it cheaper for pasture after a few years. Who knows. *** I'd love to have something like that Equine program available! Sounds great!

Well, this morning I couldn't help myself - I had to get on the scale, even tho my weigh in was just last Monday. I weighed 2 pounds less with my shoes ON than I officially weighed with my shoes OFF. I guess that's good, I just wish it had disappeared in time for WI. Ah well, what a great headstart on NEXT month, and it means I might even still make my Valentines Day goal! I suppose I should have waited, but I changed my ticker anyway. It's SO much fun to do that!!

Best wishes for a skinny Wednesday!!! Eat well, breath deep, and smile at someone who needs it!

Last edited by NoLifeWithoutHorses; 02-01-2006 at 02:13 PM.
NoLifeWithoutHorses is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 03:42 PM   #7  
Senior Member
 
Lilion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,467

Post

Good Afternoon Ladies!

This'll be a bit of a drive-by posting. I was in a staff meeting most of the day and have so much to do! Kind of amusing really, one of the first things the big boss did was stress that he doesn't live for his job and we shouldn't either and that we shouldn't be coming in on weekends (free of charge to the State I might add) and we should get a life if we do come in on weekends because that's just stupid. Guess who's been to the lousy office EVERY Sunday and TWO Saturday's this month? Right....I can just not get my work done....I'm sure he'd understand....I couldn't get it done because I have a life!

They bought us lunch today. The building cafeteria has a fabulous salad bar. So of course instead I got Taco Salad. I did skip the fried bowl and only put 1 oz of cheese and about 1/3 cup of chicken filling stuff and 1 T of sour cream. But I also had some broccoli salad...this wonderful stuff with bacon and pecans and raisins...TOO fattening...and a cookie ... about a 5 pt cookie! By my calculations I'm at about 28 points...my daily allowance...already! Well, it's flex points for me tonight!

I did lose 1.8 lbs...putting me at 248.8! I would feel like I was cheating to call that 248 on my slider, but since I know this scale weighs a pound higher than the one I started on...I'll take it!

Must run now and try to get something done! Onward and Downward Ladies!
Lilion is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 08:43 PM   #8  
aka Valerie
 
NoLifeWithoutHorses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Outside of Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,316

S/C/G: 350/345/195

Default

Oh, Lilion! Broccoli salad! Found some while on the road at a Wally-world. To DIE for! It was 95% broccoli, so I endulged on the grounds that veggies are hard to come by on the road. I've been searching for it every since. It's GOT to be the best thing since chocolate!!! *** Love your Yoda line, BTW.

Last chance to kiss pony noses before tomorrow, so I'm off!
NoLifeWithoutHorses is offline  
Old 02-01-2006, 10:56 PM   #9  
I am Anti-Fat
 
fawnice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 35

S/C/G: 364/361/170

Height: 5' 7"

Default Sticking With It

Elmay: Hey thank you for your imput; I could get ton of responses like your's, and I love everyone of them. It shows how others care and are so willing to help. I've cut back alot this week in my eating. Check it out, I even turned down Kisses chocolate covered cherry candy. Now I'm telling you what if I'm able to do that, then I must really be serious this time. Hubby and I are going to go WW shopping. I've got recipies already to go shopping for. Plus, we're getting rid of everything that we can't use. Other family members can have the stuff.

Hope everyone has a great day tomorrow.

fawnice is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 08:04 AM   #10  
Senior Member
 
Terri in MO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,197

S/C/G: 278/267.2/180

Height: 5'7"

Default

Hi ladies,

Another day of trauma in our household. Last night, DH and I were ready to just pack it all up and leave town.

We found out that DH's youngest brother has run his mother into $40,000 of debt. He's run up $20K on a credit card in four months. WTF! DH called him and asked him what he's done and how could he do that to their mother. He just sat there in silence. He said he's been out drinking and having a good time. I called my lawyer niece to find out if there is anything we can do. MIL told me to mind my own business to which I absolutely went off on her. She will have nothing and we won't be able to bail her out. She will end up sharing a room in a nursing home which she keeps saying is fine by her. How stupid. I told her that that was a big lie because now she is always so worried about how somebody has a nicer apartment than her or anything else nicer than her. I also told her what I think of how she treats DH and how she choose to put this other son first and how he's nothing but a lying, stealing, drug using, alcoholic, lying dirtbag, SOB. She didn't think that was very nice. But its true. He's stole from employers, from DH, lied to me, lied to the Church that was trying to help him, etc. And all she would say is that he is getting so much better. She knowingly gave him her credit card and didn't look to see what he was charging. DH wants to have him arrested for elder scamming. DH just wants to see him beaten and in jail for doing that. She won't be able to make all the monthly payments because he let the truck be repossessed and she owes $20K on that and payments are over $500 and the credit card has to be about $450 a month. Plus she's paying his rent and cell phone. And she claims that she doesn't love one son more than the others. When I told her about his lying and stealing from DH, she said that DH better look in the mirror. I went beserk. Then she told me that I wasn't very Christian which tipped me further over the edge. Then DH got on the phone and told her that if she willingly and knowingly let the son do this and if she is going to continue with the attitude that he's doing better, then there is no longer a relationship and he'll just see her in Heaven. DH has essentially lost all his family since the other brother is in the nursing home from the strokes and will never be 100% or even 90%. I told DH later that at least we weren't worrying about the house. I feel horrible about it all.

At least with this level of stress, I have been eating less and not binging!

I AM going to get my act together starting today and get back to exercise and eating healthfully. We can't live with this level of trauma.

Lilion - on your loss. Hot damn!!!!!!

I need a hot shower and then off to work. We may or may not find out today if our offer is accepted or rejected. We may or may not be going to sign more papers tonight. No matter - I WILL be walking the dog tonight.

Have a good OP day!
Terri in MO is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 08:39 AM   #11  
Hang In There
 
ageoldie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Dallas TX 75227
Posts: 1,990

Default

ageoldie is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 10:13 AM   #12  
aka Valerie
 
NoLifeWithoutHorses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Outside of Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,316

S/C/G: 350/345/195

Default

Terri, I'm so sad for that whole situation with your in-laws. I'm so sorry for your dh & even your MIL that she's in such a spot and can't see the light. I'm glad you said to her what you needed to say. It doesn't change things, but you still need to get it out there. Sounds like she fought back with the best buzz words she could come up with, knowing under it all that she's made nothing but huge mistakes with her other son, that you & dh do care and you are a good Christian. I hope the BIL winds up in prison, Soon, but already too late. I can't imagine who she'll call when she can't make payments and they take her home & everything else away. It's very sad - from this distance - but to you, you must be seeing red. Some things are just beyond your control, like the way others choose to behave.

My girlfriend, Barb, and her daughter are living with us because she was too gentle & foolish to get rid of a boyfriend that bankrupted her and she lost her house. At least she's rid of him, but coming here was the only way to keep him from just following her, walking in the door and staying whereever she & her TV went. No matter what was going on or what he'd done, he'd just chuckle and say "Oh honey..." and go sit & watch TV. She just couldn't call the cops on him. Personally, I wanted to hire a couple guys with baseball bats. If I had, at least I could give you their number now. (That was a joke, just a bad joke.)

Anyway, I hope you get good new on your new home, haven & horsey hangout today.

For my part today, I'll try not to attract the attention of law enforcement again. Maybe I'll even do my homework for school! I just found out I'm home until Sunday night. Then it's back on the road again. Today is already Thursday. It's going to be a fast week.

... I guess I posted the cop incedent somewhere else - I was walking at about 1 a.m. this morning, jogging actually at the moment he spotted me, in black clothes near darkened stores. By the time he pulled in to check it out & realized I was just an old lady trundling around with her dog, I think he was gonna laugh. Much better than the alternatives.

Have a sunny day all!

Last edited by NoLifeWithoutHorses; 02-02-2006 at 11:01 AM.
NoLifeWithoutHorses is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 10:16 AM   #13  
Dancing those pounds away
 
2cute2Bfat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: State of Confussion, USA
Posts: 2,623

Default

Terri ... this doesn't happen very often but I am at a loss for words.
But I want to send you some sincere hugs. {{{ HUGS}} - {{{HUGS}
2cute2Bfat is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 10:59 AM   #14  
Senior Member
 
Lilion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,467

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by determined to succeed
I also told her...he's nothing but a lying, stealing, drug using, alcoholic, lying dirtbag, SOB. She didn't think that was very nice.
Oh Terri! Bless you, I couldn't help but find that line funny...I guess I'm twisted. Good for you for telling her like it is...what a pity it fell on deaf ears! Mother's can be sooooo upsetting! My mom and dad are both long gone, but my best friend's MIL sounds EXACTLY like yours! Her BIL does the SAME things! He'll get fired or just choose to be a drunk, he steals, he runs off for a week and no one knows where he is and then he'll call, asking for a ride home from a city 200 miles away! He runs up her bills and wrecks her cars and still she backs him up! She's worked TWO jobs all her life to support this 40 year old man! I just don't get it, but I suppose I'd find it hard to shut out my son, even if he was a scumbag. I suspect tough-love is tougher on the parent.

It sounds like your DH has made a good choice by letting her lie in her own bed, hard as it may be on you all. She is an adult after all, you can't force her to cut off the scuz-son, you can only cut them off yourselves, wish them luck and stay out of it. And your DH still has plenty of family...after all, he has you! I'm so sorry you are going thru all this stress! I need to give you another hug!

Valerie: You suspicious looking person you! I can't even imagine the police stopping you while you are just jogging along! WTH are you doing jogging at 1 a.m for anyway??? Don't you know there are bad-guys out there that time of night?

Well ladies, my Dr appointment was good. The OBGYN didn't think the fibroid or the ovarian cysts were bad enough to worry about. So my girlie parts are safe for the time being! All we're going to do is find a way to get Aunt Flo under control until menopause makes it all go away!

I was good at dinner last night! Luckily I was still full from lunch! I had 0 point veggie soup and a 3 pt sandwich and a 1 pt muffin for dessert. I made these nifty muffins, called "Harvest Muffins". Yummy! Mine were actually 1 1/2 points each, since the recipe says 24 and I only made 18. But still, really good for not much on points. I had two for breakfast this morning too!

Well, it's going to be a long day! I was soo tired this morning and thought about calling in sick just to sleep, but I didn't and I get to work and find that one of my coworkers DID call in, so now I have 5 hearings instead of just 4! So I best get to it, huh?

I just got a bulletin that says that the State is going to be blocking URL's that support pop-ups or advertising...so I may not be able to come here soon since it is an advertising supported site! Gosh, I'll miss you guys if I only get on here at night! We'll see I guess!

Later ladies! Have a happy OP day!
Lilion is offline  
Old 02-02-2006, 11:55 AM   #15  
aka Valerie
 
NoLifeWithoutHorses's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Outside of Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,316

S/C/G: 350/345/195

Default

More Muffins?! You guys are killing me. One muffin & I'd be tearing down the walls looking for the whole rest of the pan. It would be all downhill from there!

Lilion, I'm so glad the doc's appointment went well! I hope you're feeling better, cold, girlie parts & all! Too bad you're facing the posssiblity of all that government interference with your computer! Just be sure you keep checking in with us when you can!!

As for walking/jogging in the middle of the night, when the mood strikes.... Besides, I was only a couple hundred yards from the cop shop & I know they drive by there all the time. It was probably the same cop I accidently high-beamed on the way there.

Bill just talked to the real estate folks. We're putting in an offer on the farm at 9 tomorrow morning. Suddenly I'm terrified that we'll actually get it. You should see it now. It's not that it won't be awesome with a few years of hard work, it's just that it'll take... a few YEARS of hard work. The idea of packing and moving is utterly terrifying. And thrilling. Terri, any word on your move yet? It's kinda wild that both of us are at this point at the same time.
NoLifeWithoutHorses is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:50 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.