Sherry -- Given what you ate yesterday, are you technically still on a fast?

No, obviously not. But I plan to continue today as though I were. I figure one meal in 6 days isn't going to interfere too much with the process. On the other hand it did give my body something to work with. I'd really like to drop my weight to at least a pound lower than the lowest I've been to in the last 6 years. (probably in longer than that, but that is all I'm aware of).

My lowest recent low (within 6 years) was 220. I'm at 231 today. I'd like to get to at least 219 before I give this up. That way when I go back to my regular dieting efforts I will at least be working on new losses and not on playing catchup.

Sherry, I am in no way making a comment about your personal decision but just expressing my views on fasting.

I think fasting for personal reasons in a good thing provided that it is well thought out, monitored, and very very short term. I wouldn't classify a fast that goes on more than 2 days to be short term. A fast that goes on for more than one day as far as I am concerned is too long.

People fast for lots of reasons. I won't pretend to know the extent of these reasons, the types of fasts, nor the results.

My grandmother fasted for a day once a week for her entire adult life. She said it cleansed her body, made her feel better, and helped her to focus on meditation. For that day, she limited herself to water, watered down juice, and occassionally but not often broth. She lived into her late 90's and was a very healthy woman. I want to stress.. she was a very healthy woman. Never in her life was she overweight or facing the types of imbalances I have subjected myself to.

Once when I asked her about fasting, she told me all I needed to know. But adviced me to never think about fasting until I was balanced. Balanced with my weight, eating choices, all of that.

I totally agree with her. To fast when I already have food issues is not a good idea. To fast as a weight loss strategy would only make me more imbalanced. I also wonder if there will ever be a time when it will be ok for me to try a fast like she did. Even when I am at a reasonable weight, I will always be someone who once was fat. I cannot expect to be able to live and eat like she did.

Wow. Sherry, I know you don't want to hear this, but that sounds dangerous. You're talking about trying to lose well over 20 pounds (I forget the numbers from earlier but I think you'd said you'd lost over 10 pounds already) from a fast? I think there's a reason why people say there's no magic pill, and I'd worry that such a long fast (unsupervised, right), would have long-reaching consequences.

I know I've questioned whether there's evidence for the claims of fasting, and there may be some evidence that short fasts do have effects of cleansing toxins, etc. But is there really evidence that you can lose (and keep off) so much weight from fasting?

Everything I read indicated that fasts longer than 3 days should be supervised by a physician... I know people do very low calorie diets but they are supervised too.

Again, I know you don't want to hear this, but I would urge you to stop.

Sherry, and others, a very informative article I found tonight on my health insurance's website (Blue Cross Blue Shield). I have bolded and colored some of it.

Sherry - I am concerned about you too using this as a weight loss tool, without medical supervision. If you want to lose another 12 pounds (from 231 to 219), you may find it very hard to do so -- judging from the text below, statistically, your weight loss is going to slow down in the 2nd week, and I am afraid you are going to be putting yourself in danger if you dig in your heels and keep going to hit a number. I'm not saying the sky is falling, but I DO think you need to speak with a doctor about this if you continue.

There are safer ways to go about getting the pounds off. I have no qualms about short fasts, but I think you are getting into the iffy zone... read on...


From http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/topic100586815

Fasting
by Douglas Dupler MA

Below:
•Definition
•Purpose
•Description
•Precautions
•Key Terms
•Resources


Definition

Fasting is voluntarily not eating food for varying lengths of time. Fasting is used as a medical therapy for many conditions. It is also a spiritual practice in many religions.


Purpose

Fasting can be used for nearly every chronic condition, including allergies, anxiety, arthritis, asthma, depression, diabetes, headaches, heart disease, high cholesterol, low blood sugar, digestive disorders, mental illness, and obesity. Fasting is an effective and safe weight loss method. It is frequently prescribed as a detoxification treatment for those with conditions that may be influenced by environmental factors, such as cancer and multiple chemical sensitivity. Fasting has been used successfully to help treat people who have been exposed to high levels of toxic materials due to accident or occupation. Fasting is thought to be beneficial as a preventative measure to increase overall health, vitality, and resistance to disease. Fasting is also used as a method of mental and spiritual rejuvenation.


Description

Origins

Used for thousands of years, fasting is one of the oldest therapies in medicine. Many of the great doctors of ancient times and many of the oldest healing systems have recommended it as an integral method of healing and prevention. Hippocrates, the father of Western medicine, believed fasting enabled the body to heal itself. Paracelsus, another great healer in the Western tradition, wrote 500 years ago that "fasting is the greatest remedy, the physician within." Ayurvedic medicine, the world's oldest healing system, has long advocated fasting as a major treatment.

Fasting has also been used in nearly every religion in the world, including Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and Islam. Many of history's great spiritual leaders fasted for mental and spiritual clarity, including Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed. In one of the famous political acts of the last century, the Indian leader Mahatma Gandhi fasted for 21 days to promote peace.

Fasting has been used in Europe as a medical treatment for years. Many spas and treatment centers, particularly those in Germany, Sweden, and Russia, use medically supervised fasting. Fasting has gained popularity in American alternative medicine over the past several decades, and many doctors feel it is beneficial. Fasting is a central therapy in detoxification, a healing method founded on the principle that the build up of toxic substances in the body is responsible for many illnesses and conditions.

The principle of fasting is simple. When the intake of food is temporarily stopped, many systems of the body are given a break from the hard work of digestion. The extra energy gives the body the chance to heal and restore itself, and burning stored calories gets rid of toxic substances stored in the body.

The digestive tract is the part of the body most exposed to environmental threats, including bacteria, viruses, parasites, and toxins. It requires the most immune system support. When food is broken down in the intestines, it travels through the blood to the liver, the largest organ of the body's natural detoxification system. The liver breaks down and removes the toxic by-products produced by digestion, including natural ones and the chemicals now present in the food supply. During fasting, the liver and immune system are essentially freed to detoxify and heal other parts of the body.

Many healers claim that fasting is a particularly useful therapy for Americans and for the modern lifestyle, subjected to heavy diets, overeating, and constant exposure to food additives and chemicals. Some alternative practitioners have gone so far as to estimate that the average American is carrying 5-10 pounds of toxic substances in their bodies, for which fasting is the quickest and most effective means of removal.

Physiology of fasting

Through evolution, the body became very efficient at storing energy and handling situations when no food was available. For many centuries, fasting was probably a normal occurrence for most people, and the body adapted to it. It is estimated that even very thin people can survive for 40 days or more without food. The body has a special mechanism that is initiated when no food is eaten. Fasting is not starvation, but rather the body's burning of stored energy. Starvation occurs when the body no longer has any stored energy and begins using essential tissues such as organs for an energy source. Therapeutic fasts are stopped long before this happens.

Many physiological changes occur in the body during fasting. During the first day or so, the body uses its glycogen reserves, the sugars that are the basic energy supply. After these are depleted, the body begins using fat. However, the brain, which has high fuel requirements, still needs glucose (sugars converted from glycogen). To obtain glucose for the brain, the body begins to break down muscle tissue during the second day of the fast. Thus, during fasting some muscle loss will occur. To fuel the brain, the body would need to burn over a pound of muscle a day, but the body has developed another way to create energy that saves important muscle mass. This protein-sparing process is called ketosis, which occurs during the third day of a fast for men and the second day for women. In this highly efficient state, the liver begins converting stored fat and other nonessential tissues into ketones, which can be used by the brain, muscles, and heart as energy. It is at this point in the fast that sensations of hunger generally go away, and many people experience normal or even increased energy levels. Hormone levels and certain functions become more stable in this state as well. The goal of most fasts is to allow the body to reach the ketosis state in order to burn excess fat and unneeded or damaged tissue. Thus, fasts longer than three days are generally recommended as therapy.

Weight loss occurs most rapidly during the first few days of a fast, up to 2 pounds per day. In following days, the figure drops to around 0.5 pound per day. [Sherry: this fits right in with your loss so far of 14 pounds in a week. But see how it may take you 24 more days of fasting to lose 12 more pounds. That's over a month of fasting! I would certainly not recommend you do this without strong medical supervision.] An average weight loss of a pound a day for an entire fast can be expected.

Performing a fast

Fasts can be performed for varying lengths of time, depending on the person and his or her health requirements. For chronic conditions, therapists recommend from two to four weeks to get the most benefits. Seven-day fasts are also commonly performed. A popular fasting program for prevention and general health is a three-day fast taken four times per year, at the change of each season. These can be easily performed over long weekends. Preventative fasts of one day per week are used by many people as well.

Juice fasts are also used by many people, although these are not technically fasts. Juice fasts are less intensive than water fasts because the body doesn't reach the ketosis stage. The advantage of juice fasts is that fruit and vegetable drinks can supply extra energy and nutrients. People can fit a few days of juice fasting into their normal schedules without significant drops in energy. Juice fasts are also said to have cleansing and detoxifying effects. The disadvantage of juice fasts is that the body never gets to the ketosis stage, so these fasters are thought to lack the deep detoxification and healing effects of the water fast.

Medical supervision is recommended for any fast over three days. Most alternative medicine practitioners, such as homeopaths, naturopathic doctors, and ayurvedic doctors, can supervise and monitor patients during fasts. Those performing extended fasts and those with health conditions may require blood, urine, and other tests during fasting. There are many alternative health clinics that perform medically supervised fasts as well. Some conventional medical doctors may also supervise patients during fasts. Costs and insurance coverage vary, depending on the doctor, clinic, and requirements of the patient.

Preparations

Fasts must be entered and exited with care. To enter a fast, the diet should be gradually lightened over a few days. First, heavy foods such as meats and dairy products should be eliminated for a day or two. Grains, nuts, and beans should then be reduced for several days. The day before a fast, only easily digested foods like fruits, light salads, and soups should be eaten. During the fast, only pure water and occasional herbal teas should be drunk.

Fasts should be ended as gradually as they are entered, going from lighter to heavier foods progressively. The diet after a fast should emphasize fresh, wholesome foods. Fasters should particularly take care not to overeat when they complete a fast.


Precautions

Fasting isn't appropriate for everyone and, in some cases, could be harmful. Any person undertaking a first fast longer than three days should seek medical supervision. Those with health conditions should always have medical support during fasting. Plenty of water should be taken by fasters since dehydration can occur. Saunas and sweating therapies are sometimes recommended to assist detoxification, but should be used sparingly. Those fasting should significantly slow down their lifestyles. Taking time off of work is helpful, or at least reducing the work load. Fasters should also get plenty of rest. Exercise should be kept light, such as walking and gentle stretching.

Side effects

Those fasting may experience side effects of fatigue, malaise, aches and pains, emotional duress, acne, headaches, allergies, swelling, vomiting, bad breath, and symptoms of colds and flu. These reactions are sometimes called healing crises, which are caused by temporarily increased levels of toxins in the body due to elimination and cleansing. Lower energy levels should be expected during a fast.

Research and general acceptance

The physiology of fasting has been widely studied and documented by medical science. Beneficial effects such as lowered cholesterol and improved general functioning have been shown. Fasting as a treatment for illness and disease has been studied less, although some studies around the world have shown beneficial results. A 1984 study showed that workers in Taiwan who had severe chemical poisoning had dramatic improvement after a ten-day fast. In Russia and Japan, studies have demonstrated fasting to be an effective treatment for mental illness. Fasting has been featured on the cover of medical journals, although mainstream medicine has generally ignored fasting and detoxification treatments as valid medical procedures.

The majority of research that exists on fasting is testimonial, consisting of individual personal accounts of healing without statistics or controlled scientific experiments. In the alternative medical community, fasting is an essential and widely accepted treatment for many illnesses and chronic conditions.


Key Terms:

Ayurvedic medicine
A traditional healing system developed in India.

Toxin
A substance that has poisonous effects on the body.


Resources:


Books

* Cott, Alan. Fasting: The Ultimate Diet. Chicago: Hastings House, 1997.
* Fuhrman, Joel, M.D. Fasting and Eating for Health. New York: St. Martin's, 1995.
* Page, Linda, N.D. Healthy Healing. CA: Healthy Healing Publications, 1998.


Organizations

* Fasting Center International. 32 West Anapurna St., #360, Santa Barbara, CA 93101. http://www.fasting.com.


Last updated July 14, 1999. Copyright 2004. The Thomson Corporation. All rights reserved.

one more voice
 

Like the others above, I'm not anything but concerned about you, Sherry. I wanted to share something that happened to me a few years ago...
This wasn't voluntary, but the results are basically the same. I was taking medication that makes me sick to my stomach if I don't eat with it, and one morning - just one - I didn't catch breakfast. This started a snowball effect that ended up with me collapsing in my doctors office because a) I hadn't eaten in 33 days, b) I was dehydrated and my blood pressure went through the floor every time I stood up, and c) I had so many ketones in my blood that I actually experienced ketoacidosis, which isn't always horribly harmful, but in my case...it stopped my heart. I was in the hospital for a week, on TPN and fluids, and when I got out, it was almost 3 weeks before I could eat food in the amount and frequency that is required to keep a person healthy and strong. I also gained back all 42 pounds I lost while sick, as well as 13 pounds I hadn't had before.

Like I said, it wasn't voluntary, and obviously there were other factors, but it's just so easy for it to get out of control. For me, all it took was one missed breakfast...for others, it's just 2 more pounds they want to lose. Then 3 more. Then 10 more. Not everyone is disposed to the eating disorder mentality, but I'd wager that a healthy percentage of those that are have no idea. Please, be careful.


-Brie

I am not even going to read the post replies until after I post my message, because I just know someone is going to say how dangerous, horrible, whatever... fasting is. (although, I'd love to be wrong ;) )

I know A LOT about fasting/juice fasting. I have fasted many, many, many times. I've read books written by medical doctors who advocate fasting. I've spoken with doctors who advocate fasting. If there's any health topic I know a lot about, it's fasting. :) I'm one of those people who get interested in something and research the topic to death. :lol

Fasting, especially juice fasting is so very healthy for the body. It has wonderful healing/detoxing effects and even weightloss as an added bonus. After you get through the first three days(for some it may take 4 or 5), you feel amazing. Your mind is clear, you're full of energy and just ready to take on the world. I even sleep like a rock when I'm fasting.

I also fast for Spiritual reasons. :)

It's best to read up on it as much as possible, so you know how it works, and yes, it's best to start off slow and work your way up to longer fasts. But again, really research the topic.

PS Also, if anyone says you'll gain the weight back. That's a total myth. You will gain back some water weight (salt) and waste matter weight, but as long as you continue to eat healthy, you will not gain it back. Continuing a healthy diet is key.

I think you will find, that every diet out there has a "disclaimer" on it. "Check with your doctor before starting this or any diet" How many of us have done that? If you are strong and healthy do you really worry about it?

I agree a fast is something that should be taken at a relaxed pace. You shouldn't try to exercise extensively during one, and you shouldn't push it beyond where it feels right. Right now it feels right. My weight loss may slow down. Or it may not. As far as the water loss at the beginning? I may or may not have lost that. I was doing Atkins prior to the fast, and you get a lot of water loss during Atkins, so I may not have had the same effect.

We'll see. I'm really not worried at present. I've lost 15 pounds since Monday. I'm only 11 pounds from the point where I will probably stop. I think it will happen within the week. If it doesn't I may stop anyway.

I'm really really curious though. How many of you who seem so worried about it have ever fasted for even one day? I have fasted 1 to 3 days many many times. 8 days once. 5 days straight this last week, and then a part of a day off.

I love the way it is helping my arthritis symptoms. I'd really like to see if "cleansing" does eliminate them altogether. It is the later stages of a fast that are supposed to benefit the person the most. That is when the deep cleansing takes place. Diseased tissues are supposed to be used up and metabolized, including tumors. I know I have fibroid tumors. I'd like to believe I'm helping make them go away.

Maybe I shouldn't post here any more. I don't want to stress anyone out. I do understand your concerns. I stopped my 8 day fast due to the worries of others. I believe I ate a little yesterday to relieve the worries of others, but honestly I FEEL fine. Fasting is so much easier for me than regular dieting because there IS NO HUNGER. I'm NOT compelled to eat. I don't have cravings or any need for food. My body is burning its fat and it is happy enough with that. My energy levels are good, not perfect. I do tire more easily, but that is to be expected.

I agree about breaking it gently and slowly. I intend to.

I've been told that you should ease into a fast by eating light before you begin, ...fruits, soups, etc. My grandmother ate no meat the day before her weekly fast.

I know an involuntary "fast" is not the same, but I have gone 5 days straight without eating. Cold water was the only thing available for me to consume. I remember getting the most excrutiating pains and headache followed by a calm lull. Although food and sleep were the only things on my mind, by the end I was not hungry. Perhaps it is because of that experience that I could never imagine a voluntary fast.

However, if this were something I wanted to try as a weight loss strategy, I imagine one of the first things I would want to do is find people who have sucessfully done this AND maintained the weight loss for a long time. Not just to see if it works but to learn from their experiences.

Sherry, many of us are worried. But that is because we are concerned about each other. It is what makes this site a supportive place. If we were worried and didn't say so, what would that make us?

Before I was diagnosed with PCOS, I used to fast once a week, for both spiritual and health reasons. I have fasted three days a few times. No longer than that, and never medically supervised. (Now, with PCOS, I'm rather afraid to give it a try again, since my insulin is so out of whack sometimes.)

That being said, I don't necessarily think you should stop... but I do agree that you should probably be monitored by a medical practitioner, especially one who understands/accepts fasting as a viable cleansing therapy. There should be ayurvedic or wholistic practitioners in your area with whom you could consult. Heck, some Roman Catholic retreat centers probably have folks who know a lot about fasting. As the article posted above says, fasting is an ancient religious and medical practice.

Also, I tend to agree that you may wish to be clear on your reasons. Like a few others, your statement that "I'll fast until I get to x pounds" threw up a red flag for me. While losing weight is a definite side-effect of fasting, it should not be the primary one or it can get addictive and dangerous as you try to shed "just one more pound".

I haven't posted to this thread before this because you seemed very clearly to be listening to your body, reveling in the lightness and energy of the fast, and didn't seem to be heading toward overdoing it. The fact that you've fasted before, and that your other long fast was 8 days, gives me some comfort that you are aware of your body's needs, and willing to listen when they change.

It is my prayer that you will continue to thoughtfully, reverently, and with due consideration break your fast when it is appropriate for you.

And do continue to post about it. I think we can all gain a lot from the discussion of this sometimes-maligned yet ancient form of health practice.

Thank you Synger. I appreciate your words. I would consult a physician if I felt the need, and if I could afford to. Unfortunately as I stated, my husband lost his job last week and I am the sole bread winner now and I work 6 hours a day. Money for something that seems so unnecessary right now, just isn't in the budget. Plus I feel fine. I think that has been one of the primary benefits of this fast is the wonderful happy feelings in my brain that have left me without fear or dread of the future in spite of the circumstances we are in. So I guess there is a spiritual side to this. I have had more mental focus, more time and thought for prayer, and it is a joyous time.

I am doing it for weight loss. Make no mistake. But I am not committed to continuing for any particular amount of time. I may decide any day to stop. My body will decide that for me, not the scale. I'm really pretty satisfied with where I am right now, although I want to get much lower, weight wise.

If my losses slow way down I may decide that my metabolism is slowing and I may choose to change things up. I don't want to interfere with my ability to lose weight and that is one of my biggest concerns about fasting, that my body may get too used to it and feel like it can live on less.

In reality I probably can live on way less, but not on nothing. Not indefinitely anyway.

Jayde, an involuntary fast is not really the same thing. I can understand the headaches you got, the feeling lousy. That happens when your body is switching over from burning glycogen stores to burning ketones. It happens with Atkins too. To burn your fat as your primary fuel source you have to go through that transition. Eating low carb does that to you as well. It has happened to me many times when restarting Atkins, (but not so much anymore). It is an adaptation thing. Brain needs fuel. It is used to getting it in the form of sugars. It can get it just as easily from burning fat, but the body has to reach a point where it knows to burn that fat. The headache happens between the two points.

I didn't have that headache with my fast. I had already gone through that transition prior to starting the fast. I do not have "thoughts of food" constantly either. I can see why you would if the fast was involuntary, but when you know that you don't intend to eat, you put food out of your mind. The same as you do if you are allergic to a certain food, you would just put that food off your "list" of things that your mind accepts.

You mention your grandmother fasting for a day a week. Fasting for a day doesn't give you much of the benefit of fasting. The first day on any fast is the worst. The second day (for some after 3 days) you feel good then the benefits come. Then you start to feel the mental joy, the elevated happiness, the clarity of thought etc. As for "easing into it"? Why? The only benefit I can see to that is that your body would then perhaps be clear of undigested food. I can see why that might be better, since while on a fast you don't create much waste, and there might not be enough urge to push out what is already in there. The site I read recommended an enema for that reason.

I have a question for you...did you start this fast before or after your husband lost his job or when you knew he was going to be out of work? Also I don't see where you have mentioned it but are you taking any vitamin supplements?

I say this in a very loving way, so please take it from some one who cares and not trying to sabotage you.

Is starving yourself now to lose a few pounds worth the damage it will create 6 months down the road?

Sherry, trust me when I tell you that this will create problems down the road for you. I believe in fasting 1 - 2 days but not for lengthy amounts of time, especially unsupervised by a doctor.

When you see your hair coming out in clumps 6 months from now because of the rapid weight loss your not going to be happy, and I hope thats all that will happen.

Leenie

Sherry, I have nothing against your decision to fast, and I hope that you are able to get the results that you hope. There is nothing wrong with ketosis, and it is good that you are monitoring that.
However, I have to repeat what Jen noted - are you taking vitamins? If not, you WILL end up having to spend money you don't have on healthcare. The people who have said they have lost hair and such after fasting were not consuming enough vitamins and minerals (hair loss is a classic sign of that type of deficiency). The body cannot store adequate amounts of all vitamins that are necessary for life. I strongly recommend finding a good multivitamin that meets all the RDA values for all vitamins and minerals.
Additionally, when you are fasting, the only way that your body gets any protein is by burning muscle.... that is what muscle is. You will lose muscle in this endeavor (your body won't burn just fat)- how much you lose is up to you. The only way to minimize muscle loss is to exercise and do resistance exercises.
Otherwise, I think you are monitoring the situation well. If you start to feel like crap, if you (for whatever reason) aren't in ketosis, if you begin to have any other problems, then you know it is time to go off the fast.
During this time it is of utmost importance that you take a multivitamin and get enough fluid to prevent dehydration. I see no problem with the weight loss as long as you are truly carefully monitoring the situation and know when/if it is necessary to contact a physician.
Good luck!

Sherry, I totally understand how it feels to be stuck at a weight that just won't budge. Like some of the others here, I have PCOS and it's a slowwwww process. I'd love to kick it in gear, but I would not consider a fast because of the long term effects of what it would do to the rest of my weight loss journey.

You mentioned fasting for bears. When they hibernate, they are nearly dead. Their body, and metabolism, goes to a screeching halt so they can continue to make it all winter without food. As humans, we can't do that. We have to continue on a daily basis. Our body does go into the fat burning mode with ketosis, etc,. But something else is going to happen that takes away any of the weight loss benefits.

First, we will signal to our body that we are starving, and the metabolism changes. Yo-yo diets and crash dieting can delay the metabolism and make it harder to lose weight later on. Your body doesn't know the difference from a water fast for well intentioned purposes and starvation. If you think your metabolism is slow now, imagine how much harder it might be when your body goes back to normal. Your body is also burning lean body mass during this time. You don't want to lose muscle, you should do the opposite, and just lose fat. Gaining lean body mass will boost your metabolism because your muscle burns more calories than fat. You may feel like a million bucks right now, but I hate to see you be even more frustrated down the road. If your metabolism is shot, you may very well find yourself eating 1,000 calories a day for the rest of your life to keep the weight off. Wouldn't it be nicer if you could eat 1300-1400?

How much exercise do you do a day (pre-fasting days)? It may be very possible that you are not doing enough. We have some stats around here somewhere. I'll try and find them tonight and post them if nobody beats me to it. 60-90 minutes a day of cardio is not an uncommon recommendation. You might want to look around Maintainers and the library. There are some enlightening articles there. Some I wish I'd never read :lol: but am glad I did.

As far as research goes about this subject, you might not find much that is sponsered by a drug manufacturer, but you don't want that anyway because if it's in favor of the drugs, then it will be polished! You want to look for the unbiased research for medicine's sake. Try Berkeley Wellness or Mayo Clinic or Web MD. The Greek doctors might be the Fathers of Medicine, but that was in a great 'founding' sort of way, like that the gods don't stricken us with illness, and that learning that paleness is a sign of illness. They taught us how to think and research. While they were the building blocks of our medicine, they believed some wacky ideas as well (Leeches come to mind) so please be careful. And please don't stop posting! :)