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Old 08-14-2002, 10:50 PM   #1
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Default Water Controversy

Ladies....

Someone sent this to me a few days ago. Thought I'd post it and get thoughts from you guys.

No need to guzzle all that water, expert says

By Maggie Fox

WASHINGTON, Aug 9 (Reuters) - Trying to do the "right" thing by drinking eight full glasses of water a day may do little more than make a person run to the bathroom, a researcher said on Friday.

Newspaper articles, health and beauty magazines all advise drinking at least 8 full glasses of water a day totalling 64 ounces (two litres) for optimal health -- an approach called "8x8" by proponents.

But Dr. Heinz Valtin of Dartmouth Medical School in New Hampshire said there is no scientific evidence to back up this advice, which has helped create a huge market for bottled water.

"After 10 months of careful searching I have found no scientific evidence that supports '8x8'," Valtin, who has written textbooks on the subject of human water balance, said in a telephone interview.

Writing in the American Journal of Physiology, Valtin, a kidney specialist, said people forget that the food they eat also contains some water.

The Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council has recommended that people take in about one milliliter of water for each calorie of food eaten.

This adds up to two liters, or 74 fluid ounces on an average 2,000-calorie diet. But the National Research Council also noted that much of this is already contained in food.

"I did 43 years of research on that system -- the osmoregulatory system. That system is so precise and so fast that I find it impossible to beleve that evolution left us with a chronic water deficit," Valtin said.

LOW ON FLUID

If a person gets low on fluid, the body compensates by bringing fluid back out of the kidneys and by slowing the loss of water through the skin, Valtin said. Thirst kicks in long before dehydration starts, he added.

"It does it very quickly and very accurately and it does so in minutes," Valtin said.

He said he and colleagues became concerned after seeing dozens of newspaper and magazine articles urging people to sip water all day. "I started talking to my colleagues and asking them 'Do you know of any evidence for this?'. Invariably, they said, 'No I think it's a myth'," Valtin said.

The journal asked him to review all the scientific studies he could find and he concluded that someone misinformed has been telling people to drink large amounts of water when most do not need to.

"I am referring to healthy adults in a temperate climate leading a largely sedentary existence," Valtin said. "Persons with certain diseases must have large volumes of water -- kidney stones are probably the most common example."

The rest can just drink enough to slake thirst -- and this includes coffee, tea, and even beer -- despite their diuretic effects, Valtin said.

He hopes people will be relieved of the guilt of not getting enough water, and of the expense of buying bottled water to drink throughout the day.

"There is also the possibility that if you drink a lot of water that happens to be polluted then of course you get more pollutants," Valtin said.

"Then there is the inconvenience of constant urination, the embarrassment of having to go to the bathroom all the time," he added.

And overdoses of water can cause water intoxication that can lead to confusion and even death. Water intoxication is one deadly effect of taking the drug Ecstasy, for instance, because it makes people thirsty beyond their physical needs.
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Old 08-14-2002, 11:02 PM   #2
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Well, isn't that interesting? I have to say that I have seldom ever felt thirsty but always thought that sometimes I probably ate when I was actually thirsty. I've been drinking about 96 oz a day recently and now sometimes will feel thirsty. Hmmm. I have had some concerns about that relating to meds I take and wondering if I was flushing them out too fast. I am glad though that I'm at or above the 8-10 glass a day recommendation and will stay at least at that.
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Old 08-14-2002, 11:06 PM   #3
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very interesting read Jennelle..
but.. I am getting sick of all these "experts" I get so confused by all of this! ie. low fat vs low carb. I am learning the best thing for me is to journal and write down results of my actions. ie. - eating ice cream only increases craving for other fatty foods (like chips or more ice cream) I write down what foods satisy me when I am hungry - when I want sweet, salty, etc.
The water I have been drinking has been a lot!! 93 oz!! - I have thought about lowering it - because of all the fruit I eat. I had 2 slices of water melon, an apple just today. On days when I have salty foods - like popcorn I made sure I drink my water - same thing goes with chinese food.

After all this - you do what works for you!
~ same thing goes for parenting!!! ~ there are even more "experts" in that field.

interesting article though...

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Old 08-15-2002, 09:08 AM   #4
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You know, I heard something about this in passing on the evening news about a month ago - I was cooking dinner at the time, so I thought I had heard wrong.

On the perfect diet, where you get lots of raw fruits and vegetables, very little artificial sodium and low amounts of red meat, you probably don't need all that water. But there are millions in this country get a fresh veggie once a week, and that audience definitely needs 64 oz. of water per day.

The constant sipping of water can be hard on your vocal chords, by the way - best to drink a glass in one sitting.
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Old 08-15-2002, 10:58 AM   #5
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Funny this should come up. When I was at the doctor on Monday, she said something about drinking my meds with plenty of water and I told her I drank a gallon a day and she said "Why". I told her that I thought it facilitaed weight loss. She just said "That's alot of water".

Now I don't know what to think. I definately think I need my 64 oz, but do I need 128 oz. I don't know.
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Old 08-15-2002, 12:10 PM   #6
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Hmmm. Experts. Everyone is an expert with an opinion. And you know what they say about opinions. lol

I would stick to the "whatever feels good and works for you". Just like low fat vs low carb..it's all about what works for you and your body.

When I don't drink water...

1. I eat alot more.
2. I snack alot.
3. I have bad headaches.
4. I have no so clear skin.
5. I am tired more often.
6.I feel like a zombie.

Maybe we don't need a gallon of water daily. But a gallon of liquid spread throughout the day is not really that excessive.

Experts..I don't listen to any of them. Well, I at least try not to. lol

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Old 08-15-2002, 12:29 PM   #7
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There is always something new coming out on this subject or that. I know when I get in enough water, I don't retain as much water and I generally feel much better.
Something I was told in some seminar a few years back and it's stuck with me ever since. He gave the definition of an expert (he was one in the field he was talking about and I don't recall what it was now) but an expert is a has been drop of water!!!! ex for has been and spert for drop of water.
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Old 08-16-2002, 10:53 AM   #8
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I agree with Jennifer, if you found something that works for you then stick with it as long as your doing it saftly . If drinking water works for you then great, just don't over do it. It is like anything else.

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Old 08-19-2002, 04:39 PM   #9
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I was thinking about this and I think this guy is oversimplifying things. Yes if we were all eating our fruits and veggies we wouldn't need to drink as much but as debbers said most people don't eat nearly enough fruits and veggies so we can discount that statement. Also he doesn't say that the more fat you carry the less water you retain. Fat does not retain much water. Muscle has more water because it needs it for metabolism. Fat doesn't do any work so it doesn't need water. So a fatter person is going to have less water in their body. Also the older you get the less water your body retains and females retain less water than men. When I am saying retain water I mean the water you need for your body to survive, not that extra that we get at TOM. So if you look at all of that most of us probably don't have as much water as we should. I'm not saying we are dehydrated, after all it is true that the body has wonderful mechanisms for making sure that we keep going but there is a world of difference between just surviving and working at peak efficiency. We need water for metabolism and if we just have enough to keep our bodies going, well that doesn't speak much for us trying to increase our metabolisms to lose weight. Finally this bit about water intoxication...frankly you'd have to drink more water than most of us drink in a week to have this happen.

It's funny how they never do a study on why drinking water is good for you, just why drinking a lot is not good. Frankly I think that we should keep drinking as much as we can and not worry about these studies.
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Old 08-20-2002, 02:25 AM   #10
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Well, let me share with you that any time your body loses weight your body is in ketosis which can be hard on the body unless you keep those kidneys cleaned out. Without the extra water the toxins build. You know that sluggish , weak , dizzy feeling you can get? Sure you do.
Experts.......tell you what they are sure of until they are proved wrong, again and again, and again. Each time they end up forced to change their position and then they are experts about that!
Medical science is not an exact science by any means either. They are "practicing" medicine. Why? Because, science is ever discovering new truths, new theories that dismiss the old or cange them rather drastically. Check with people who use or do what you are using or doing. Check out tthe opinions of those who have experience with the product or system and you will get a much better idea of what works. Chemical things are the exception such as medicines , fat burners and such do check out the experts who have done studies ( when they have done them) long term on the side effects and results. In the end you have to judge for yourself. I have found the water makes a great difference . By the way.....have you heard that the medical people have discovered that Atkins was right after all. How many years have they all been saying bunk. Now..... well, its a whole new ball game.
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Old 08-20-2002, 05:43 AM   #11
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let me just add a small statement. ketones is not just a Atkins thing. ketones are formed from fat burning so every one who burns fat if on a low cal diet or low carb diet are going to burn fat. and both are forming ketones in their body. it is the low carbers that actually do the measurement of ketones. so to add to what pam has said anybody who is trying to lose weight should remain flushing the ketones out of their system with ample water. and actually how much water is actually needed to get to the state of overhydration?? it depends on the individyual body. i know i can easily drink 2 gals of water daily and do fine. i do take supplements to keep my body in an even keel. i know many who drink 3-4 gals daily and some who can not drink more than 1 so it is a very individualized thing so key note listen to the body aim for the flush with out damaging your body. listen to how it reacts to the water levfels you take in. do you do better?? are you dropping some weight at these higher levels?? or are you feeling yucchy??
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Old 08-20-2002, 07:13 AM   #12
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Maybe I'm being a little too thin-skinned here, but I'm feeling a little insulted. I think a lot of folks completely got the wrong idea why I posted this. The reason I posted this article was not because I go running willy-nilly to every Dr. Joe who purports to be an "expert." The reason I posted this is because I firmly believe it is important to be informed . Yes, there are many different schools of thought out there. Yes, one might be right for you and wrong for me. Yes, I COMPLETELY agree that not everyone is an "expert" and that sometimes science can be (and is) manipulated in such a way that the researcher's hypothesis turns out to be always "right." But I also firmly believe that it is up to us to really look at ALL the evidence, findings, etc. and make an informed judgement - not just automatically dismiss something because it doesn't fit into our preconcieved ideas or something some other "expert" has told us. If we do that, we are as guilty as the "experts" we supposedly disdain.
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Old 08-20-2002, 09:23 AM   #13
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I'm sorry if you feel insulted by anyone's posts.

I posted mainly because when I read studies that don't give you all the information I get really ticked (not at you at this dr doing the study). It is impossible to be completely informed because they figure most people don't know their basic biology and will think whatever they say is right. That's why you can read a million of these studies and as you said they all sound right.

I saw a thing on the news about how most of these studies are so oversimplified by the media that it isn't funny, they just say what they say to get the headlines.
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Old 08-22-2002, 09:51 AM   #14
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Okay - how are you girls feeling about this now?

I have been sort of doing a "water test" and drinking between 64-96 oz of water a day, in stead of the 96-140 oz I was drinking before, and you know what? I think I feel better. I definately feel less bloated. Anyone else "playing" with this?
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Old 08-22-2002, 12:32 PM   #15
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Just a note on ketones - if you are concerned with your ketone levels, you can buy ketone strips from your pharmacist (I think without a prescription). They are urine based tests, and a staple in the medicine cabinets of diabetics everywhere
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