Someone told me recently that TOPS has a weekly weigh-in and meetings, similar in a way to Weight Watchers (so you can get accountability and the dynamic of the group support), but it costs a lot less. I think the yearly fees are about $25 for TOPS. (Taking off pounds sensibly). I was wondering if anyone has ever gone to a TOPS meeting and how it compared to the Weight Watchers experience. I know the diet plan is different, because TOPS uses an exchange system. But I heard that you are free to use any plan you want as a member of TOPS, so if you were a former WW member, you can just keep following your plan materials that you got when you were a WW member. (But obviously, TOPS won't provide you with those materials).
I really enjoy my WW meeting and love the Core plan, so I most likely will stay with WW. But if money became less abundant for some reason, I thought it might be a good idea to see what TOPS has to offer. Or, it just crossed my mind, there is no reason why I couldn't join TOPS at the same time I am going to WW, to tap in to whatever resources and support they have.
Tell me your thoughts even if you haven't gone. Perhaps you have strong reasons to prefer WW without considering an organization like TOPS.
Additionally...I thought I would tack on a question about OA. Does anyone think it might be a good thing to do in addition to WW? I am so torn on whether to look in to OA. I do think I have a possible addiction to food, yet I am not sure I want to commit to a program like that, at least right now.
I am currenting doing WW but have, many, many years ago belonged to TOPS as well. From everything I know (which isn't too much ) with TOPS you can follow any plan you want. They meet just like WW -- discuss topics of interest, personal support, etc. I think the whole idea of being held accountable is what matters, and you can get that with either. It wouldn't hurt to check any of them out, who knows, you might like one better than the other.
I've been members of all three. OA for me was helpful as a support group and in learning about and dealing with binging issues, but it didn't help me with weight loss. For me, to lose weight, I just don't do well without that weekly weigh-in (with someone other than a relative looking over my shoulder).
I don't think you can be a member of both WW and TOPS and still be eligible for TOPS national awards amd recognition. There's something in the national bylaws, but I don't remember exactly how it is worded. I don't know if they forbid membership or you just have to agree not to accept any national awards.
I love TOPS. It is FAR less expensive than WW, and that is initially why I chose TOPS over WW. Though now having been a member (by myself in the 90's - I lost 60 lbs before moving to a new city and dropping my membership, and since August with my husband) - even if TOPS were as expensive as WW, I would still choose TOPS because I think it has a lot more to offer members. TOPS is more personal and has more "rewards" for members, members have more say in how the group is being run, and the savings can't be overlooked, as a year in TOPS can be much cheaper than a single month in WW. Depending on how groups run their contests, it's even possible for a person to recoup their investment or even come out ahead a little bit. Not really likely, or a concern for most people, but it makes the plan affordable to everyone.
It it's $24 for the anual national dues ($36 for a couple or for a parent/child. The parent/child can both be adults, but they have to be living in the same household), and included a monthly newsletter (a nice magazine with informative articles, recipes, success stories, and information on upcoming events). The monthy chapter dues are determined by each chapter and are generally under $5.
In our group, they're $3 and there are a few ways you can earn free monthly dues or a free charm for a charm bracelet. In our group, you get free dues if you lose 10 lbs, if you lose 3 consecutive weeks in a month, and I think there's one other way that I can't remember. If you gain, you pay a dime for every pound or fraction of a pound (so if you gain 1.5 lbs you pay 20 cents), and the biggest loser for the week takes all the gain fines home. If you win biggest loser two weeks in a row, you get a prize (worth $5, then you choose and buy the next prize and the club reimburses you the $5). We also run a "dirty sneaker" contest in the summer. Another $5 prize is bought by the club, and for every day a member exercised at least 20 minutes, they get to put in a little sneaker card with their name on it. Every 4 weeks, we draw a name and start a new dirty sneaker contest. I won two weeks ago, and as the winner, I buy the next prize (and get the $5 reimbursed again). My prize was really cute. It was a beautiful handmade set of notecards. Oh, and we also have a drawing in which a paper grid is drawn, and anyone who wants to join pays $1. Every week after weigh-in, you sign a square if you lost. When the grids are all filled, they squares are cut and the person whose name is drawn keeps all the money in the can (about $10 - $20). AND we have recently started a 5% contest. Everyone brought in a donated prize or prizes (anything they wanted to get rid of) and it was put in a basket. Things like little tupperware containers, tape measures, exercise videos, key chains, all sorts of miscellaneous stuff.) When anyone loses 5% of their weight at the start of the contest, they get to pick a prize from the basket.
Nearly all chapters run some type of contest(s), but our group IS a little contest happy. Still, it makes the group a lot of fun.
Aside from the weekly meetings, there are recognition days, rallies, and retreats that you can attend (at an extra cost, but you save so much on the monthly dues you can attend several of these events and still not spend what you would at WW). I haven't been to any of the multiple-day events, but hubby and I have made reservations to attend SRD next year (State Recognition Days). It's a two night - two day event of workshops and social activities. The members that attended this year's loved it. They arrived the night before for social events. Exercise classes and open swim and general meet and greet. The cost of the event was only $25 per person (and your hotel room costs), and our group usually pays part of the admission fee (we're a small group, so it's usually only about $5 or so, but the discount is appreciated). Then two days of workshops and recognition events, and more evening socializing. This year, members who hade lost at least 50 lbs could volunteer to bring a piece of "fat clothes" to hold up as they went on stage to visualize before and afters. These yearly events give recognition to those who've lost the most weight in each weight division. TOPS has nine weight divisions and two age divisions, with seven for adults and two for teens and pre-teens. Weight loss surgery has it's own division(s).
I'm anxious to go next year.
Even if you don't go to any of the retreats or regional and state events, I like the more personal touch in TOPS meetings. In a WW meeting, the atmosphere tends to be (in my experience) very class-like. The leader drives and controls the group. Which is fine, but I prefer the TOPS groups that are more member focused and driven. Like any church or private club, we conduct our business at the beginning of the meeting, and we discuss a topic or just how our week has gone. Members vote on the leadership, and on how they want to run their club (within the national guidelines). If the group wanted a three hour meeting, they could vote to have one. If you don't care for how a chapter is being run, you can vote to change it, join another chapter or create your own (I think you only need 3 or maybe 5 people).
Since you can visit any chapter free before deciding whether to join, I'd encourage visiting not only one group, but each of those in your area. You might find that one group "fits" you better than another. Hubby and I didn't do that though. We liked our group right away, so we just settled in - and now I'm co-leader and hubby is treasurer.
Admittedly, I am not unbiased on the topic, but I am so in love with this group, I really want to spread the word. Not enough younger people know about TOPS. At least that's what I've found to be true in the midwest. Almost everyone who comes to TOPS learns of the group from someone inside the group, or in the community "free" paper. TOPS doesn't really advertise (unless a chapter wants to pay to place an ad or sponsor an open house).
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, shelby and kaplods. I literally had no idea that TOPS had so much to offer. The contests sound fun, although I would probably have to limit myself to how many I can participate in. I would find it hard to keep track! I will look in to a local meeting (or 2 or 3) to visit over the next month. I'll also be sure to spread the word if anyone mentions wanting to join WW but can't afford it. I hear that a lot for some reason these days. I think a lot of people are feeling the pinch with the gas prices going up so high. *sigh*
Not all groups are so contest-happy. Even in our group, we're doing a lot more contests than ever before. We've got some members who have a hard time losing weight, even though they've been members for years and years. Our club is trying to do some new things to help motivate people. There are some members who never join any of the contests, and others who join every one (and I'm not sure how they do keep track).
I've heard some WW members who have been TOPS members bash TOPS because they noticed that TOPS groups often contain more members who noticeably don't lose weight or who lose very slowly. They argue that this "proves" that WW is a more effective program. Even occasionally, in TOPS some members (mostly members who are still relatively new) will cattily speculate on members who have been members for 20 years, but still haven't reached their goal weight. Here's my take on it:
In WW, members who can't lose reasonably quickly, drop out quickly. A member who loses 1/4 lb a week, is paying over $50 per pound. They get discouraged, feel the program isn't worth it, and and leave. Also, in WW, slow losers even if they stay, aren't going to be noticed in the larger groups.
In TOPS, the low cost allows people of all committment levels to participate. Even members who might still be in the "contemplation" stage can come and learn and benefit. People who because of health problems or stressful hectic lives, or any other factors (reasonable or lame excuses) are not able to succeed at a quick pace, still are welcome. Also, TOPS does emphasize progress over perfection. For example, a member who has lost 80 lbs, but is having trouble getting off that last 10, might find WW increasingly frustrating and costly having to continue paying more than $50 a month, when they're so close, and yet so far from goal (though they do have the option of having their doctor revise their "ideal weight). In TOPS the dues are so affordable, there's less pressure to quit when things get tough. Some might argue that in WW, the very expense may be a motivating incentive for people to lose weight faster, but I'm not sure it works that way for most people. I think the odds are greater that the person having difficulty will just give up, especially if their budget is being stressed. In TOPS, there are few people who can't afford to be members. And the incentives that can make membership even "cheaper" are those that encourage the weight loss, so I think TOPS is definitely more poverty friendly, and in general more beneficial to people of all income levels, health and fitness levels, and at all levels of preparedness for weight loss.
No, you can follow any program you want to, and you don't even have to tell anyone which program you're on, unless you want to. In our chapter, I'd say that at least 5 of our members are still fully following their Weight Watcher's food plan. One lady brought her WW materials to share with the group, and another lady expressed interest and another member offered to give her her old WW materials.
Our previous leader is following WW, and whenever she does a program for the group she will give information in WW points as well as calories. Points are pretty compatible with exchanges, because most fruit, bread, fat, and protein exchanges are "one point." Dairy exchanges and some protein exchanges are 2 points, and most vegetable servings are zero points. So they're very compatible.
When you join, or shortly after, you probably will be asked whether you want to buy "The Choice is Mine" a 230 page 8 by 11 wire bound soft covered book.
Usually the book is $15, but it's been revised and right now TOPS is running a special that chapters can order the revised editions for $10 if they order at least 6. The deadline is in August, so there's a good chance you can get the book for $10 if you want it. Or someone who is buying the new edition, may be willing to give or sell their old edition. I've got the old edition, and I still haven't decided whether to buy the new edition. Most of the information is the same, but the new edition seems to have more info on mindless eating, health issues and special needs exercise. It's only a few pages of different info, so I'll probably just keep the old edition and borrow the chapter's new edition to look over.
It's a really great book and compatible with WW. As there is a chapter on the food plan, but there are also chapters on behavioral issues, exercise, recipes... But again, you don't need to buy the book (whether you want to read it or not), as the chapter will probably have a copy you can borrow, or some member will allow you to borrow theirs. (When I first joined the chapter's copy was "checked out," so the leader lent me hers for three weeks).
Before you reach goal, you have to submit a goal weight slip signed by your doctor. My doctor set mine at 250 lbs. I think that's awfully high yet, but he wants me to start with that. I went ahead and submitted it, but if I change my mind, either before or after I reach it, I can just have the doctor sign a new slip.
They don't push about the slip, and you can even submit it after you've reached your goal, but you can't officiall reach KOPS (keeping off pounds sensibly) status without the doctors note.
KOPS are members who stay within "leeway" of their goal weight, which I believe is 5 lbs below and 2 to 3 lbs above goal weight.
Like WW "lifetime members" KOPS get additional benefits. Most clubs give KOPS members free or discounted monthly dues as long as they stay in leeway and weigh-in 13 times per year.
I was once on TOPS and it was pretty fun. We had to pay the 10 cents per pound as kaplods said and we had a summer picnic at one of the members home. They also sing this little song at the end of their meetings (I can't remember it, but I'm sure Kaplods know it). It was fun, but I like the structure of ww and the plan they give you. I do know how to follow core now, and TOPS is a lot cheaper than ww. My mom is a KOPS and always goes to all the state things and has a blast. She does great on it.
I did find that the meeting was mostly older women. I was the youngest person there. But I don't really have anything bad to say about TOPS. It has been a blessing to my mom and it was fun.
I remember the song (singing it, not the words), but they don't do that any more. They still do the TOPS pledge at the beginning of the meetings (I am an intelligent person, I will control my emotions, not let my emotions control me. Every time I am tempted to use food to satisfy my frustrated desires, build up my injured ego or dull my senses, I will remember, even though I overeat in private, My excess poundage is there for all the world to see. I will Take Off Pounds Sensibly.)
And at the end of the meeting we recite a poem (Can't recite that from memory. It starts "the road to goal is a lonely road, we need someone to care.....).
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I do think that TOPS clubs, at least in the midwest do tend to be older, but there's no good reason for that. There are younger groups, even groups specifically for teens. TOPS groups could be organized on college and even high school campuses (and some may be). Our group is about 2/3 women over 50 and about 1/3 people under 50 (including two men, or I should say two husbands).
I can understand wanting to be on a structured plan, and there are benefits to being on the same plan as everyone in the group, but what I love about TOPS is that if your needs change, your support doesn't have to. I'm not saying that WW would kick you out of the group if they knew you weren't following either Flex or Core. In fact, when I was in WW, I knew people who were in WW doing non-WW food plans (a fact that they could never mentioned to the leader or in group, though).
I'm not sure why WW ever completely abandoned it's exchange plan. I was in WW around the time of the change, and I knew alot of people that wanted to stick with the exchange plan, and were told they couldn't. I think it's still one of the best, most adaptable, sensible food plans. It's inherently balanced and even if you disagree on how fat/carbs/protein should be distributed, you can easily tweak the plan by redistributing your exchanges.
For me, I have problems with carbs, so I "traded" a couple starches for proteins. I like that all exchange plans are based on the original diabetic exchange plan, and the exchanges haven't changed at all since the 50's (the recommendations on how to distribute those points varies a bit over the years and from plan to plan, but the exchanges themselves are the same). This is great because you can use any exchange cookbook (diabetic cook books, Richard Simmons, Healthy Exchanges, Weight Watcher's before 1994...).
I don't think TOPS will ever be as popular as WW, because WW is a corporate enterprise and spends a lot of time advertising. TOPS is a non-profit organization, so there are no profits to fuel advertising (and therefore no advertising to fuel profits).
Thank you so much for taking the time to type out all of this information on TOPS. Just in the last week I was thinking about visiting a few meetings to check it out. I knew very little about it until I read your information. You answered a lot of the questions I had. Thanks!
No problem. Check out tops.org, you can find the local meetings in your area and learn more about the organization.
The tools section has some neat printables, like Deal-a-Meal type cards for exchange planning. There are tips and suggestions and even a small message board and I think maybe even a chat room.
If you try a few local chapters and find you're the youngest in the group, and are uncomfortable with that, or feel odd man out for any reason hang in there for a bit. You'll find a lot of the ladies are very youthful in spirit, and there's always the option of recruiting some of your friends to join, or even forming your own chapter. It's definitely a group that you get out what you put in.
In our chapter right now, our younger members are really getting excited and motivated and it's bringing in more younger members. I love our group, but it's possible that we might have to split soon. The meeting room is getting too small for us and we have a bit of a philisophical difference among the members. Some people want to have very short meetings (under 45 minutes, which the national leadership doesn't recommend because it doesn't allow for alot of personal support time). Others I think would like a much longer meeting (not the three hours that I referred to, but at least 60 minutes, maybe up to 90). There are also people who like routine, what I would call passive meetings (without a lot of individual participation needed) and others who like activities and events planned in. For example, on Monday our treasurer organized a nutritional "scavenger hunt" field trip to a local grocery store. We broke into pairs and each were assigned an aisle (meat, dairy, produce, frozen foods, breakfast cereals) and were assigned the task of finding "highest and lowest" sodium, fat, calories, protein, carbohydrates... We convened to work as a group in the "snack" aisle. Then we met in the store's cafe to discuss. It was great fun. The store management had given us permission (taking "notes" is sometimes seen as suspicious by grocery stores because they might assume you're competitors' price spies), and were asked not to "bother us" during the game. However the cafe is also their break room, and some of the store employees were very interested in our group (very much enjoying the conversation. I wonder if we might get some new members as a side benefit).
I am biased toward developing a more active group. I know the group I belonged to in the 1990's was mostly older women, but was quite active. They did periodic fund raisers, not only for their own operating costs, but to contribute to a children's charity (I believe that's still allowed).
I'd like to do things like organize exercise events like dog walking at the animal shelter or a geocaching party, or maybe a walking club. I've mentioned some of these things (to mixed reviews), but we've got at least 7 members (about 1/3 our club) very interested in such things, and about 1/3 of the club very uninterested, and about 1/3 sort of undecided.
Maybe at some point our chapter will divide. Which I don't think would be a bad thing. In fact, it's one of the amazing things about TOPS, you can have groups with very different "personalities." In fact, each group does have a unique "feel" to it. It's why I encourage people who want to give TOPS a try, to visit several, especially before deciding TOPS isn't for them, because they might hate one group and love another.
I joined TOPS in the 90's in Illinois and lost 60 lbs. It was a big group with about 40 members. That chapter bought trophies and I won chapter "queen" my first year (losing the most weight), and runner-up second year. I kept those trophies for years (I might actually still have them). Then I got a job in a city about 60 miles away. I tried the groups in my new city, but really didn't like any of them. One was at a hospital and of mostly nurses, who really treated the non-hospital staff like they didn't really belong in the group. Another group was mostly stay-at-home mom's and I felt like the oddball for not having kids. The third group, I don't know I just didn't click with. I think in hindsight, I may have been looking for a cop-out, or I missed the old group so much that no group was going to feel like home. Heck, I would have been better off driving the hour to my old meeting (I could have made it if I left straight from work), because once I decided that I could "do it on my own" I gained all the weight back, plus another 20 lbs.
That's my biggest reason for deciding on TOPS. To succeed, I know from experience that I need a program with a weekly weigh-in and a support group FOR LIFE. There is no quitting, ever, and so it has to be a group I enjoy and can see myself in forever. TOPS allows me the option to always choose people I'm comfortable with (because if I don't like any group I find, I can organize my own). Not to mention, my husband and I are on disability, and there is absolutely no way we could both afford to be members of Weight Watcher's. It wouldn't just strain our budget, it would break it. The cost of us both going to TOPS and a year's membership for us both at the local warm water therapy pool for swimming and water exercise costs less than a membership would cost for only one of us at Weight Watcher's.
I read in the Tightwad Gazette that in evaluating a bargain, you have to compare the price. If the normal price is twice the bargain price, you have to ask yourself is it twice the value. One example (I may have the story a bit off, but the paraphrase is acurate) was a mom whose daughter wanted red boots of a particular brand (because "everyone" at school had these boots). The mom found green boots in that brand in the daughter's size in a thrift store for 1/10 the price that looked like they'd never been worn. The daughter whined that she wanted red boots, not green, but the mom asked her daughter if she thought that red boots were 10 times better than green boots. The daughter said no, and agreed to get the green boots. As it turned out, "everyone" at school loved her green boots and a few said they wished they'd had green boots instead of red, and the girl decided that green boots were actually BETTER than red boots after all.
TOPS is less than 1/10 the cost of WW. I do not consider WW 10 times better, which already makes TOPS the bargain. Since I believe TOPS is actually the better program, it's like getting far more than "only" 10 times the value.
I think it's awesome how you took so much time to explain TOPS, and also that you are so positive and involved in your health. Good for you!!!
I wanted to say one thing about the issue of joining a group but feeling uncomfortable because people are not similar to you (like maybe they are all a decade or 2 or 3 older, or they are all young moms, etc etc).
I think we should deliberately seek out experiences with people who are different than us because I think we can learn more since it stretches us and pushes us outside our comfort zones. I think we are forced to listen a little more and try to understand where the other person is coming from. I liken it to a family situation: you've got the generations and the different genders and different personalities (whether you like it or not). And it's really healthy for everyone to learn to get along.
I personally love the company of people who are much older and much younger than me. It can be really interesting to see what a 10 year old boy has to say, for example, and also to spend time really conversing with those who have more life experiences.
I'm really enjoying my weight watchers group because there are so many different kinds of people there. It's a little slice of the local community. I guess I don't get out enough! I find it interesting, and really like the older folks who are there.
I did TOPS years ago, and because I was about 30 years younger than most of the women there, I felt out of place. I went to only 2 meetings. We had to recite a thing about how we'd been fools, and I think that made me feel worse about myself, which was the LAST thing I needed at the time.
The fact that TOPS doesn't promote a certain diet is two-fold. It's great to lose in your own way, but on the other hand, it really nice to have a program that encourages the Healthy Eight, like WW does.
Whichever program you choose, if you are in the right mindset, I think you'll be very successful. Many TOPS member come to the WW forums here for encouragement, recipes, friendship, etc. so even if you join TOPS, I hope to see you around.
so even if you join TOPS, I hope to see you around.
Thanks Jane! I am sticking with WW because I can afford it right now, and I love the program. My meeting on Monday night is really great. Aside from the cost ($40 a month), I see no negatives so why switch when it is motivating me and keeping me eating healthy? I was just thinking today how amazing it is that I am eating 6+ servings of fruits and vegetables and 2-3 servings of ff milk! Those are things I really neglected in my diet for years, especially not getting enough milk. I keep forgetting to have my healthy oils and vitamin, but most days I remember at least one of them. So I am really jazzed about how WW is getting me to eat a balanced diet which is making me feel INCREDIBLE. Even if I wasn't losing weight, it would still be worth it for the nutrition and energy!
I do appreciate your sharing your experiences to add to the discussion. I am interested in TOPS but I wish you could attend even if you are a current member of WW because people like me need all the help we can get!
[edit] I just took my vitamins since writing here reminded me that I didn't take them yet today. So this community is helping me too! Yay!
Last edited by thesusanone; 06-21-2008 at 06:17 AM.
I'm not sure that you can't join TOPS while on WW, so I'll try to find that out for you. I think that the reason you can't accept the national awards is because TOPS is dedicated to NOT endorsing a specific food plan, and would want no controversy if a person were to win the awards while using another plan.
At one time, TOPS did not allow people who'd had weight loss surgery to accept awards, and then they opened a division specifically for WLS.
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I think the point about opening your mind and heart to diversity is a very good one. The only way to become comfortable with diversity is to experience it. And yet I understand how very painful and out of place it can feel to be the "only one" in a group, whatever that "only one" is.
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Jane,
The TOPS pledge used to include this line "My excess poundage is there for all the world to see how foolish I have been." They have removed "how foolish I have been" from part of the pledge.
Our group still recites it the old way, and at my next meeting I'm going to bring up that it might discourage some members from staying. I've never liked that part of the pledge, because even at 400 lbs, I don't think I was foolish. I made mistakes, but they were because I was putting more energy into other things in my life. Although, maybe it was foolish to put everyone and everything ahead of my health. I can see why the older members wanted to keep the line, as a way to acknowledge a new way of thinking, but I can also see the point of it being hurtful. I think our group needs to reconsider this. Thanks for sharing your story.
I think WW is a wonderful program, it's just unaffordable for so many people, that I really am comitted to getting the word out about TOPS.
WW vs. TOPS vs. OA
) with TOPS you can follow any plan you want. They meet just like WW -- discuss topics of interest, personal support, etc. I think the whole idea of being held accountable is what matters, and you can get that with either. It wouldn't hurt to check any of them out, who knows, you might like one better than the other.
