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Lift and Chat: March 16 - 31, 2008

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Old 03-15-2008, 07:43 PM   #1
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Hey look, the thread is early just for Fran's tidbit and question

What a difference a few pounds make! I'm finally below my YIKES! weight and everything is comfortably loose of fitting perfectly now. The funny and expensive effect of this is that the clothes I took to be altered two weeks ago feel too loose. But I'd soooo much rather have that problem than the opposite!

I did legs today and am including a lot of the NROLW exercises Those overhead squats are a bugger! I managed my last set with 65 pounds and barely got it re-racked. Pulled out the book and figured out what the squat to stand is- ouch.

Today was beautiful here. The daffodils are about to burst open in a few days and crocuses are blooming. That usually means we are about to get a whopping snowstorm to finish out March My cat is fascinated by the reappearance of morning doves on the deck.

So Fran- what was that question?

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Old 03-15-2008, 09:20 PM   #2
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I'm waiting for Fran's question too but maybe she found something better to do on a Saturday night, so I'll ask a question of my own.

This is really for my DH...maybe I should ask Mr.Lydia227. Without getting into a huge post, I just need to know if I'm way off on my theories or calculations. Lately he's struggling with his weight and when he tries to limit portions/calories, he's just starving all the time. I suspect that if I plugged the numbers in, it would be clear that he's eating way too many carbs.

So, here's my questions. My DH is 6'4", about 250 and, to start, wants to lose 25 lbs.

1. Is 2000 calories a good starting point for him with no real exercise right now.
2. Should he (we for that matter) aim for a 40/30/30 split, with protein being the 40?
3. If I'm tracking food, I'm assuming that I should be able to go back and forth between calories/grams by assuming that protein & carbs are 4 calories per gram and fat is 9 calories per gram. Is this right?
4. If my math holds, he should be looking at about 200 grams of protein a day. (I doubt he's anywhere near that).

Anyway, thanks for letting me pick your brains. I will try to get him to add in the exercise but, other than walking, he's not too interested.

Mel - We had a really nice day here too but there's still too much leftover snow on the ground to see any possible flowers. Yay for you on the scale victories!!! That's so exciting! It's not been a great week for me. I know it's partially due to TOM but I can't blame all of it on that. Amazing how 2lbs. can make such a difference in the way I feel

Depalma - wow...I'm so glad your feeling better. You absolutely never mentioned the details of your "health issue" in the past but I'm thrilled you've gotten the "all clear"!

I'm so glad to hear that everyone is really enjoying the NROLW. I'm still loving it too but continue to struggle to fit in all of the workouts that I would like to. I actually quite like the prone jacknife now. It only took me a couple of tries but I don't look at myself. I might not be doing it perfectly but I'm doing something and I'm afraid if saw myself, I might never do it again!

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Old 03-15-2008, 09:25 PM   #3
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The daffodils are blooming here, but BOY is it windy! I ran sprint intervals yesterday and I'm sure the wind added to my workout.

Well, I have finished 3 weeks of workouts at my new gym and I really love it! I am sore most days and today my biceps died, but I can already tell a difference in strength lugging the laundry around. My clothes are falling off and the compliments are flying fast and furious. The latter might not be a good thing though. I always think it is weird for people to notice how I look. I'm strange that way.

Most of the weight training I am doing is with free weights. Today I pushed this metal sled thing that was loaded with some weights. She also has this contraption....it is a square mat thing with bungee rope-type things that click into a harness. I have been doing squat jumps with resistence provided by the bungee rope things. So many new things!

I am looking forward to having my body fat measured again. (Did I really just say that?) I think it will be lower, but even if it isn't, I know there are real changes happening in my body.

I feel like I just discovered the seven cities of gold with this weight-training thing. I feel like I am proseletyzing (sp?) and I have already suggested that other people start, especially when they comment on my appearance. No one is quite as annoying as the newly converted, eh?
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:35 PM   #4
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Ah, gosh, you all are too good to me!

MEL - yeah, for you! That's a great accomplishment!

Well, I've got to try that jackknife on my ball tonite. I have 3 spotters to I figure they can catch me before I flow into the treadmill, right? I might have a flat six year old at the end, but all in good fun!

Question: I read you all post earlier that NROLW is really for those with not a lot of weight to lose. Was that due mostly to the calorie allotments being somewhat high, or does the workout plan lack enough to make it worthwhile for someone still heavy? I have the book, but just wanted to verify what I thought I heard before risking life with the JKnife.

Tidbit: I did 90 minutes of squats, overhead presses, glute presses, and modified lunges yesterday! I volunteered to help at dd's school with the scholastic book fair. Maybe you guys have seen this - it's where the scholastic panel truck shows up at the school with about a dozen metal trade-show type folding displays on wheel full of books and about one hundred small packing boxes full of books to stack on top of the trade show trunks. The day I volunteered for happened to be the pack up day, and I figured, sure, what's packing a few books. Well, I didn't realize we'd also be pushing the prementioned trunks to the front of the library and stacking all the heavy boxes on top of the 6' trunks to get ready for the pickup guy, AND, move all the tables and chairs back to teh original place in the library. 90 minutes of packing, overhead lifting, full body sled pushing, and dragging of chairs. Breaking a sweat, purple faced fun. Like sweat beads on my face. I thought I was going to be absolutely crippled getting out of bed this morning, but I wasn't!!!

Sorry it wasn't as exciting as maybe I made it out to be - but to me, it surely was.
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:38 PM   #5
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Elisa, I'm not the one to give advice on men's fitness, but I will just add that my dh drives me absolutely nuts by chewing gum constantly (like 5 mins after finishing eating) bc he complains about being starving constantly as well. It's really weird. I know he's a carb junkie also, having gone thru the low-fat 90's with him, and that's not helping things.
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Old 03-15-2008, 11:14 PM   #6
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elisa - I'm not one to give advice on men's fitness either but I'd think 2000 calories sounds low for a man who is 6'4. Would he be interested in weight training? Or does he just want to do walking? You could always pick up the New Rules of Lifting (for Men) for him.

Fran - I believe I weigh more than you and I am doing NRLW I think the advice regarding it being for those with not a lot to lose really did have to do with food intake. All the exercises do seem doable. I find the prone jackknife difficult but not impossible. I also am getting better at it. For the jackknife, I start with on the ball with my stomach and roll out. I tried putting my feet on the ball from a plankish position and it didn't work.

I have a pic of my new home gym. It is kind of exciting and scary all at once. I have a home gym!



It took the delivery guys nearly 4 hours to put it all together. After they left, I started my first workout. The bench is super heavy and moving it is a workout in itself although it has wheels on both sides. I did 1B and my legs are a bit sore today. I can't wait to try 1A tomorrow with it.
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:42 AM   #7
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Nelie, your gym looks fantastic! Are we all invited over to work out with you?

About NRLW -- I agree that the calories seem high for a someone who has a lot of weight to lose. It seems to me that the nutrition aspect is geared to a normal to slightly overweight woman with body fat to lose. Regardless, the calories are still too high for me to even maintain on, so I skipped that section as not relevant to me. But I think the workouts would work for a woman at almost any weight level. That being said, there are exercises that I couldn't do until I had dropped about half of my excess weight due to balance issues, specifically squats and lunges. Since you already have the book, Fran, maybe give the exercise part a try?
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:06 AM   #8
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I agree, the calories are way too high for me to maintain on also, and his age ranges for different caloric intake don't go up far enough in years. Am I supposed to sit on my ever-widening butt at this point in my life and stop moving? I know a lot of women do...but not me.

Part of the issue with the calories is that those of us who have lost a lot of weight or have spent most of our lives yo-yo dieting, or are already watching our food and working out, seem to have changed our metabolisms and just burn less doing the same things that a never obese or never dieting person burns or requires. I think Meg posted a study a while back in Maintainers in a thread call "We Really are Different" which showed that the formerly obese burned 20% less calories during exercise than the never obese. Meg- refresh my memory if I'm way off!

The exercises are great. I know that he says to not tinker with the program, but for a strong, experienced lifter they can be progressed. For a beginner, they are doable. For someone with a lot of weight to lose who still has stability problems, they are modifiable.

Just my two cents.

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Old 03-16-2008, 09:34 AM   #9
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Mel, your memory is spot on! (I'm impressed, since I can't remember where I parked my car in the mall parking lot ) Here's what I wrote:

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We ARE different! Dr. Leibel said that we reduced obese may LOOK normal on the outside but our bodies are very different on the inside. He said that, in order to maintain our weight, we reduced obese need to eat 15 - 20% fewer calories per day than a comparable person – same height, weight and gender etc – who never was obese.

Why? The difference in calorie needs comes ALL from changes in NON-resting energy expenditure. The resting rate is unchanged. But our muscle efficiency increases by 15% after weight loss, so we become more efficient in using energy in exercise and everyday activities. And so we burn fewer calories per pound than either a normal weight or an obese person. It’s completely measurable in a lab – all you have to do is put the reduced obese person on a stationary bike and measure energy expenditure. We aren’t going to burn as many calories as normal people do. In practical terms, it means that when you’re at the gym on a treadmill, the person next to you is going to be burning 15-20% more calories than you do even is she is exactly the same height, weight and age (so long as she never was fat). Wonderful, eh?
From this thread: Some Answers About Genes, Environment, Obesity and Maintenance

Everything that I've read since I posted that further backs up the idea that those of us who are maintaining large weight losses are different from the obese and never-obese. I remember the chart that Dr. Leibel had on the screen at the lecture, showing that both obese and never-obese people burn 50 calories per kilogram of lean body mass. Whereas we reduced obese burn 42 calories per kilogram of lean body mass. Any wonder why calorie calculators don't work for us?

The National Weight Control Registry reports that their average maintainer eats about 1400 calories per day and does an hour of moderate intensity exercise to maintain. That's considerably fewer calories and more exercise than the typical "normal" person does, but I think it's a real world example of how our calorie needs are different than those of "normal" people.

It's an exercise in futility to those of us with a lot of weight to lose or to maintain to compare ourselves to normal people. To bring it back to NRLW, I believe that book is written for someone who has a normal metabolism and really only needs to lose some body fat and replace it with muscle.
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:54 AM   #10
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Nelie - I love your gym!!! Wow, if we had that, I think my DH would start lifting weights. I'm trying to get him to join my gym but I don't know if that's his "thing". I'll see if he wants to read the original NROL. I wish we could have a gym like yours at home but I just don't know if it's possible. And yes, 2000 calories seemed a bit low to me too but I have a strong feeling that he might have also screwed up his metabolism over the years. I just don't know where to start really. Time for some more research, I guess.

I'm off to do some laundry and make some green cookies (for work, not for me, I hope!)

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Old 03-16-2008, 09:55 AM   #11
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Fran: I have to agree with Mel/Meg about the caloric intake and how it applies to those who have/had significant weight to lose. Here is how I'm working around and with their "rules."

* Caloric intake. On my lifting days I should take in 1990 calories. Take home message, slightly increase calories on lifting days with a protein shake, 200 calories, immediately after the workout. If I find a gain or maintain at this then maybe just hardboiled egg whites and half an apple.

*Cardio. I'm all about HIIT long before I read this book so we agree there. However, last spring and summer I played with the duration of my cardio sessions and found that if I want to lose I need to be doing no less than 45 minutes five or six days a week to get me over that maintenance number. It is hard to do HIIT every day I agree and some days I just didn't have it in me to do a whole session. On those days I did the best I could and mentally checked it as a "recovery day". I still did the cardio but with less intense and frequent HIIT moments during the workout.

*Lift Heavy. YES YES YES. I figured this one out long ago on my own too. What is the point otherwise. Besides it's just plain fun to feel that resistance deep inside your muscles.

*Take a break after each four or six week period. ~sigh~ I wish I would have given myself permission to do this. I intuitively knew this but had a hard time permitting myself to do this. I know it now, it's been validated more by injury than the book. I think because I accept this part of my life as permanent I no longer think of it as a race to the finish line of uber fitness for me. Besides, these weeks off allow me to get my house in order again as well as clear my head.

There are probably other points I could ponder if I searched through the spine broken, highlighted marks of this book. But off the top of my head these is what I've been thinking about as it applies to me. Overall I think the book is a good introduction to lifting for women. The nutrition section is okay but the caloric suggestions still make me dizzy. I think that for most people that point is going to be trial and error even if they are working with a good dietician. My advice, just try it. Honestly record your input as well as your output(exercise) and see what happens with consistency. All things can be tweaked.

Nelie: That is an awesome set up! I'll be over tomorrow! Just kidding. What a nice space to have as well. Our basement is still unfinished so even if I had the equipment it would look more like an iron pit down there. But maybe someday. While I find watching others at the gym motivating there are days when I really just don't want to have to negotiate around other people either. Those would be good days for me to be cast down into my own torture chamber until I am fit for the public again.

Elisa: I will let DH know you have a message for him. I have to tell you that he and I have very different approaches to weightloss. I eat, he does not. ~sigh~ I still make sure he gets dinner every night though. He wouldn't dare not partake.

Midwife with Muscles: Yeah for you! It is a little weird when people begin to notice the changes in your body. If felt a little odd about this attention as well. But after a while they get used to the healthier and fitter you. This is such and exciting phase of weight lifting and reshaping, enjoy all that you discover through the process. Caution...mirrors could become your new best friend. Just don't make it too obvious as you walk past the mirror displays in Target. Yeah, lady, that really is you, now move your cart along.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elisa822 View Post

1. Is 2000 calories a good starting point for him with no real exercise right now.
2. Should he (we for that matter) aim for a 40/30/30 split, with protein being the 40?
3. If I'm tracking food, I'm assuming that I should be able to go back and forth between calories/grams by assuming that protein & carbs are 4 calories per gram and fat is 9 calories per gram. Is this right?
4. If my math holds, he should be looking at about 200 grams of protein a day. (I doubt he's anywhere near that).
I am of the belief that one should start as high as possible and still lose weight rather than cut dramatically. This helps ensure that most of the lost weight is from fat while preserving as much muscle as possible, helps with initial compliance, keeps the body from going into starvation mode, and most importantly leaves room for further reductions if the weight loss does plateau.

Has he tracked his recent intake and the scale results of that recent intake? That would give us hints as to what his metabolism is. Of course, if he has tracked his recent food intake and has found that he has been eating an average of 3000 calories for the past two weeks and has gained 2lbs over that time, then we can guestimate 2500 calories as maintenance and plan our caloric deficit based on that. However, without that information, we'll have to wing it a bit.Absence of any indication that he has a slowed metabolism, I wouldn't start him at anything below 10 calories per pound of body weight and would actually prefer closer to 12 calories per pound to start. This is between 2500 and 3000.



I'm male myself, but nowhere near 6'4" and my metabolism is probably not optimal after a significant weight loss. Much, at the beginning probably lost too fast on too few calories. I maintain around 14 and 15 calories per pound of body weight. Since, your husband's metabolism is probably in better shape than mine, he will probably end up maintaining his new 225 lb self on between 3150 and 3350 calories. However, my personal maintenance level is factoring in exercise but is also balanced off somewhat by having a desk job.

One question is why is there no real exercise right now? Especially if hunger is a real issue with calorie restriction, why not burn off extra calories, so less of the defecit has to come from reduced intake?

Anyway, my personal opinion would be to start him between 2500 and 3000 calories. Shoot for 2lbs per week loss. If you aren't seeing that target, then you can reduce calories slowly or, preferably add exercise slowly (about 100-200 calories either way) until you do. 2000 calories would be the absolute lowest. If he doesn't see results on that intake, then he absolutely needs to move more.

The protein numbers seem good. The macros are actually what I have found works best for me, but I have also found I am pretty sensitive to carbs. If he really loves his carbs, you can start him with a "zone" type setup and do 40-30-30 with the 40 being carbs and tweak it from there if needed. This may help with compliance.

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Old 03-16-2008, 11:59 AM   #13
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Depalma - thanks, as always, for the great information. I'm not sure how great his metabolism is either but I've never really tracked his exact eating. I plan my own intake and then (roughly) assume that he should eat approximately 1.5 times what I do! Simple and basic but it seemed like an okay place to start.

I think maybe the 40/30/30 split with 40 being the carbs could be an easier transition too. As for the "why no exercise?" I don't know. Part laziness, part lack of interest in the gym. I just don't think he's ever found anything that interests him but, if he were honest, he would admit that he hasn't tried in a while.

I think I'll pick up that book for him, maybe reading NROL will inspire him like it did me! I've told him that if he just moved more, he could eat more, but I'm not sure he believes me!!

Thanks to everyone for all of their suggestions and tips!

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Old 03-16-2008, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elisa822 View Post
As for the "why no exercise?" I don't know. Part laziness, part lack of interest in the gym. I just don't think he's ever found anything that interests him but, if he were honest, he would admit that he hasn't tried in a while.
Remind him that exercise doesn't have to be done in the gym. Take a bike ride, hike in the mountains, walk on the beach. Does he have a competitive side? He's a tall guy, about some basketball. Shooting hoops could turn into challenging his buddies to some 1 on 1, which turns into some pretty active pickup games. There are plenty of activities. One is bound to interest him.

Now if laziness is the problem. Keep finding projects for him to do around the house. As the "honey do" list grows, you might hear the reply, "I can't! I have to go to the gym!"
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:36 PM   #15
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Meg - Yes, everyone is invited

Elisa - My husband really loves kettlebells. He really wasn't doing too much weights but once we got the kettlebells, he hardly ever misses a workout. I know I talk about them a lot but they are awesome little balls of iron He has noticed a vast improvement in himself from just a couple months of kettlebells rather than years of off and on regular weights. I also agree, there are lots of activities such as biking and hiking and what not that your husband may enjoy.

This morning, I did workout 1a (5th workout). I was so excited to do squats with a challenging weight. I think my bar weighs 20 lbs and I added on 80. It was a nice workout. I could've probably added on more weight but I'll save that for Thursday. I also did step ups with the barbell (40 lbs) which was also nice. I have to work on developing my barbell shelf, I think I mostly have it and the barbell does have a little cushion so it isn't bad but on the first rep, I find myself adjusting into the right spot.
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