omg, you're down another pound!!! are you eating enough?!?!?!
He told my youngest son once that he was determined to have me tell him. He really believes that the only way to disarm the threat the number has for me, is to say it out loud. Anyway, my son just shook his head and said 'good luck with that!' He does feel however, that its a measure of my trust in him. And really, it isn't. I mean it is, but it isn't. Its far more a measure of all sorts of things within me.
I've never had any trouble starving and being anorectic in my eating patterns. I had such fear of food. (Still do actually) How do you expect anyone to believe you can weigh 300 pounds and be anorectic?!?!
I understand that all too well. I haven't had WLS, but the severe gastroparesis I have has messed with my metabolism & what I can eat/not eat so much that I deal with a lot of similar issues as people post-WLS. You should see the looks I get when people find out I'm on a feeding tube at my current weight. Some of my doctors/medical professionals understand it better then others. One thing that pisses me off so much is that I was always careful about dieting and not going to low with my calories to screw up my metabolism but all those months of trying to struggle to get 600-800 calories a day in have really done a number on it. I weighed around 275 when I got sick 5 years ago, was down to 210 about 8 months later when I finally had to have a PEG/J feeding tube put in after being hospitalized for 2 weeks and basically not having eaten/kept anything down for almost 3 weeks. Even with being careful and following the dieticians instructions as far as how much formula & such, I started gaining of course once my body adjusted. My weight finally leveled off a little over 2 years ago when my sleep disorders were diagnoes & treated as well as they can be- amazing what getting a little better quality sleep can do for a person. And everytime I think I'm on the right track and all, my body throws me a curve ball. The latest has been possible pancreatitis- along with elevated liver enzymes (gall bladder checked out completely fine).
Hi Christine! Thanks for sharing that. I totally sympathize with your struggle, and yes it sounds very, very similar.
So tell me, what foods are most successful for you? What are your real problem foods? How do you deal psychologically with the issues that go with eating like this? I'm very interested in hearing you say more about this. How do you strike that fine line now between eating enough and losing weight? What is your tolerance? Do you still have the tube?
I've found when I fall into really anorectic eating there's this little switch that gets flipped in my brain. I don't believe this is psychological btw. I really think its a chemical thing that happens in the brain when you literally starve yourself. I promise myself I will try to stay outside that danger zone where food so becomes the enemy that even 300 calories looks like too much food. Every single mouthful is wrong and I can't find any comfort zone in which to eat. Hunger becomes the danger. If you eat anything at that point, the hunger can threaten the self control so you go for less and less and less.
I know that happens for me, and it has nothing to do with what I want, or believe, or think. It's starvation mode plain and simple. I had long conversations years ago with a woman I co-facilitated workshops with. She spoke as the anorexic, me as the fat woman. As we developed the workshops we realized the food behaviours we engaged in were virtually identical. Only difference was, when I starved I got told good girl! Stick with that diet and everything wrong in your life will be better! I had fat to lose. She didn't. The exact same behaviour, the exact same food intake when she was being anorectic was met with horror and alarm and she got told she just had a bad self image and wasn't really fat. The stresses we both put our bodies through were the same. Our hearts were both at risk. But with the fat woman it was not only ok, it was encouraged. Things have changed a little and people know in their heads that diets that mess with your metabolism backfire now. That wasn't always the case.
Now, WHAT I eat is the most important factor. I have very limited food choices because I have so many things to factor in. I often have a lot of trouble figuring out what to eat before I'm in crisis but I'm getting better at it. I also don't expect so much from food any more in terms of taste and texture for the sake of pleasure. Its amazing how a plain cup of puffed wheat can taste great with an ounce of cheese, or curried spinach in a one egg omelette can taste like a meal fit for royalty.
Wow, Hubs, I totally agree with you about being an obese person that is anorexic. And the sad part is there are surgeons out there that encourage their patients to starve themselves right before surgery ‘to prepare for surgery’ WTH.
It always kills me when someone’s argument for not having the surgery is that we can’t eat very much, I laugh because I eat so much healthier than I ever did as an obese woman. I eat protein, veggies, very little carbs and nothing fried. I take vitamins, calcium, and b-12 on a regular basis. I never did that I was always on some kind of starvation diet trying to lose weight. I now eat what the average 5’2” woman SHOULD be eating lol!!!
I too have issues with losing weight I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant, so after losing about 65-70 lbs at a really slow rate (the most I ever lost was 16 lbs in the first month) it came to a screeching halt. The rest I have had to bust my butt to get off. I still have to take 1000 mg of Glucophage 2x a day. And I also have to watch every thing I put into my mouth. And I have to exercise to keep it off.
I understand what you are saying but, for me, in the 5 years before my WLS I could not lose weight at all. So without WLS I never could have lost this weight at all.
I am VERY concerned about the long-term vitamin deficiencies; as a matter of fact I am going to get the result of a blood test tomorrow. But without WLS I would not be here to worry about the long term, so the trade of for me was to go to the doctor on a regular basis and make sure that I am healthy.
My surgeon, wants to see me for the rest of my life. My primary doctor faxes all of my blood work results to his office for him to see, and his office calls me once he reviews them.
This surgery for me, was for a lifetime, I knew that going into this, that it was the sacrifice I was willing to make to save my life. And yes ultimately down the road I may have vitamin and mineral deficiencies, that is why these surgeries should always be a last resort. And we as post-op must continue to get blood work done to make sure that we are ok.
I too have issues with losing weight I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant, so after losing about 65-70 lbs at a really slow rate (the most I ever lost was 16 lbs in the first month) it came to a screeching halt. The rest I have had to bust my butt to get off. I still have to take 1000 mg of Glucophage 2x a day. And I also have to watch every thing I put into my mouth. And I have to exercise to keep it off.
I took glucophage at a critical point as well. I was eating 500 calories a day just in order not to gain. Two WLS and no weight loss. I was having visual disturbances again due to pressure on my optic nerve and dehydration of the eye itself all related to insulin issues. My blood pressure was below the carpet and my metabolic furnace was running on empty. I was so starving I literally couldn't think straight any more. I went to a new doctor and he was so horrified by my lack of care he decided that he would start at the beginning, whereever that happened to end up being and make right all sorts of medical wrongs.
At this point, since you've talked about the importance of medical followup I'll tell you what happened with the surgeon who did the second surgery. The one who claimed the only reason I failed to lose weight the first time was because the surgery had been done wrong. When I was 6 weeks post op and having complications up the arse, the one thing I noticed that seemed really wrong was that I never felt full any more. Like I had no sensation of fullness. I asked my local doctor (couldn't get any response to my querie from the surgeon) and he ordered a barium swallow. Well, as it turned out the xray tech had actually worked in a large hospital in Ontario that did WLS and he was well aquainted with what he was looking at. When he did the test, he called me back and said I really shouldn't say anything to you, but your band is wide open and its all just running right through.
So, I made a prompt appointment with my xrays in hand and went to the city to see the surgeon. I will also mention that at this point my incision was still gaping and open by three inches, I still had a drainage bag and was struggling with infection.
I showed him the xray and first he told me the tech didn't know what he was talking about. Then I told him the tech's experience and asked him point blank if he'd done any repair to the band when he was in there hacking me apart again. (I didn't use that language but that's what I felt) He admitted it had 'looked' fine so they didn't check it but because my stomach had been adhesed to my liver they had to do considerable cutting around it. Well I lost it. I was so sick. I wasn't losing any weight AGAIN! My incision was gaping open and I was still draining. And I'd gone through all that pain for that?!?!
When I said all of this to him he stood up from behind his desk and said 'Madam, I'm washing my hands of you!' and walked away from me. This is the God's honest truth.
So.... this is why I was sent across the country to the third surgeon in consultation. After he did a gastroscopy he determined the damage to my stomach was so severe there was nothing he could do to repair it.
I still had to have a third surgery a year later because my entire abdominal wall was open. I didn't just have a hernia repair, I had to have my gut put back together. The damage was incredible and I have to be careful to this day because I've had abdominal tortion since then as well.
Anyway... my new doctor decided the main thing was to treat the insulin resistance and I was very skeptical that it would help at all but my vision was so disturbed I took it hoping it might help that. And it did. I also eventually got so I could eat around 1500 calories a day without gaining and that was a HUGE relief. It wasn't until then that I was able to start losing, very slowly. But losing nevertheless.
I did have problems with the glucophage. Serious problems and after nearly 3 years on it I really felt that I needed to get off it. The first time, in the late spring this year, if you'd ever told me I'd go through withdrawal from a drug like that I never would have believed it! I wanted to die! After nearly 4 weeks off it I realized I couldn't do it and went back on. But it seemed like going off it had messed me up all over again. I started to gain and couldn't seem to get on top of it no matter how regular I was with my dose. I was craving carbs all the time! I felt like I was losing control.
So, back to the drawing board and I knew what I needed to do was to go religiously low carb (and for me that means like long term Atkins Induction) which was very difficult to accomplish because for the most part I can't eat meat and egg in limited doses. So I had to do major diet planning and supplement like you would not believe. I spend about $200 a month on high quality supplements and I'm very fortunate because I get mine wholesale.
In September I went off the glucophage again, went religious about my diet and supplements and it was ok this time. I also started to lose at a steady pace which for me is amazing.
Its a struggle for sure, but I feel so much better than I ever did on the glucophage and I know that for me its all about the carbs if I want to stay in control. Which means its all about planning my food meticulously.
This is an interesting discussion. I'm a frequent lurker, but rarely post and consider myself a WLS failure. However, I've known a number of people who have had WLS and it was great for them, so I see both sides. I also have a close friend who was more like me. I had it in 1988- more of a "banding" procedure- lost 50 pounds (down from 250) and then started the climb back up. I have relost and gained 25-40 pounds over the years since then a number of times.
I've had a number of complications and suffered with malnutrition the first year or so (lost hair, had problems with my teeth etc). I cannot comfortably eat foods that are dense like meat. I've had problems (weirdly enough, almost cyclically) with lots of throwing up. I went to a gastroenterologist who said he could possibly do something like a revision to try and fix that, but I think I'm just too scared that it might be worse, although I did do a lot of research on it. It feels weird to say that I struggle to maintain my weight at 250, but that's what I do.
I try not to look over my life and decisions with regret because that seems somewhat futile, but I guess I regret being at a place in my life at such a young age (21) that felt desparate enough to do this. And that I had parents that were desparate enough for me to be thin to help pay for it! I've since been diagnosed with PCOS, but that was never even looked at prior to surgery.
I sometimes feel envious of anyone who has been able to lose weight whatever the means, but not in a mean way. I feel happy when I see the ladies (and few men) here have success because all of us with weight issues are sort of a family, whether we know each other or not. We all know the pain.
This is an interesting discussion. I'm a frequent lurker, but rarely post and consider myself a WLS failure. However, I've known a number of people who have had WLS and it was great for them, so I see both sides. I also have a close friend who was more like me. I had it in 1988- more of a "banding" procedure- lost 50 pounds (down from 250) and then started the climb back up. I have relost and gained 25-40 pounds over the years since then a number of times.
I've had a number of complications and suffered with malnutrition the first year or so (lost hair, had problems with my teeth etc). I cannot comfortably eat foods that are dense like meat. I've had problems (weirdly enough, almost cyclically) with lots of throwing up. I went to a gastroenterologist who said he could possibly do something like a revision to try and fix that, but I think I'm just too scared that it might be worse, although I did do a lot of research on it. It feels weird to say that I struggle to maintain my weight at 250, but that's what I do.
I try not to look over my life and decisions with regret because that seems somewhat futile, but I guess I regret being at a place in my life at such a young age (21) that felt desparate enough to do this. And that I had parents that were desparate enough for me to be thin to help pay for it! I've since been diagnosed with PCOS, but that was never even looked at prior to surgery.
I sometimes feel envious of anyone who has been able to lose weight whatever the means, but not in a mean way. I feel happy when I see the ladies (and few men) here have success because all of us with weight issues are sort of a family, whether we know each other or not. We all know the pain.
Susan
Susan, until 1995, I too considered myself a WLS failure! I had the surgery -- the banding with the staples -- back in 1986 (that was the way it was done then). I lost 50 initial pounds, got pregnant and drifted back up the scale a bit after the baby was born. I tried to maintain around 245, with pretty good success, and I threw up a lot. I too lost a bit of hair (thank the Lord for Women's Rogaine), and all my teeth are bought and paid for! Such a lovely legacy.
Well, then I began a program of portion control, added in faithful exercise, and suddenly the pounds just started going away! It took 2 1/2 - 3 years, but I got it off, and now I'm a success. I would say the WLS assists me in controlling my portions. I used and continue to use it as a tool.
I just wanted to post and tell you not to give up! It can still happen for you. I was 45 when I began my "last stand" against obesity; I'm 56 now and healthy.
Tomorrow you begin a new year. This could be the one! You aren't a failure as long as you continue to try, so give it another shot. You have a wonderful attitude, trying to be happy for those who succeed, though you admit a bit of envy -- well, that's natural! But with a little effort and much determination, you can be happy for yourself as well as for others!
I cheer for everybody who fights this battle. We are told that most of us will eventually gain some or all of our weight back, that the odds are against us. Well, every time another person succeeds in getting it off and keeping it off, the odds improve! So, in an effort to keep my odds for continued success at a maximum, I'm rooting for YOU! And I know you can do it. Make 2006 YOUR year!
For those of you who have a hard with throwing up a lot after WLS, you probably have a form of the same condition I have- Gastroparesis. It basically happens because of damage to the nerve to the stomach that tells it when to empty...it doesn't get the message to empty rapidly enough (thats why sugar can actually be a good thing for me at times) or the stomach muscle can get damaged/lazy/out of sink. Mine was caused by catching a common stomach flu bug that was going around campus at the time- I caught it from one of my students. It is most common in diabetics; the second largest group tends to be post-surgical, though they usually talk about it regards to gall bladder removal, but I've often wondered how often it affect people post WLS...and if it ever gets 'diagnosed' or is just chaulked up to one of those things that can happen, like dumping? The test they do for it is eating radioactive eggs (yes, you should worry anytime a radiology tech has to cook something), and then they scan to see how long it takes to move through the stomach and compare it to what it 'normal'...which could also be a problem with WLS- what is 'normal' post WLS? My case was very severe and most don't end up on feeding tubes- or end up staying on them this long if they do. Mine is so bad that the feeding tube bypasses my stomach and first part of my small intestine completely. As much as I hate the feeding tube, I also know its saved my life more then once in the past few years.
christine - i'm sure some of us may have something similar, the most common reasons for us throwing up is that something gets stuck!!!! the outlet from our rearranged tummies is smaller than a nickel [generally]. and we don't have a pyloric valve to control the rate at which food flows through.
soooo, think of a tube of toothpaste [gross, i know!!!]. if there's something 'chunky' in there, the tube will be blocked. and gets backed up, and then, well, we're running for the bathroom!
drinking with meals also causes problems. the food absorbs the water, and expands, and then OH MY GOODNESS~!!!!!! it hurts. and we're in the bathroom.
Susan, I actually don't like the word regret and used it in this thread in response to another comment elsewhere about people who 'regret' WLS. Regret is actually a word I've really only used maybe once or twice in other situations in my life. I think the most important thing is to realize that with or without WLS success, its not the end of the road as DancingAngel and Hazel have both said.
You asked in another thread what I did and its pretty much as stated here in my last post. Insulin issues demand that you pay strict attention to carbs and there are no shortcuts around that one as far as I'm concerned. I supplement like you wouldn't believe and that has made the biggest difference for me. I know we all talk about how its about health, but really and truly I had to shift my focus from obsessing about weight loss to getting some nutrients into my body to save my health. From there I had to face facts about carbs and get myself very prepared to make a permanent change.
I also had to start moving and that was very difficult. I've been in a wheelchair three times with back problems due to an early accident and my knees were in bad shape. So I went swimming. Early in the mornings with a short walk between the change room and the edge of the pool to minimize the discomfort of being public with my body. But I did it. What a fantastic way to start moving. We fatties tend to float much more easily so the strain was minimal and in the beginning I just concentrated on stretching and regaining mobility in my joints. I was a good swimmer as a child so it was like being a duck in water to get back into it. I varied my strokes and started and ended every session by walking in the water too. And I started to speed up the way I moved in general when I walked anywhere. In fact my son said about a month ago, he used to have to walk REAL SLOW (he's tall and has long legs and I'm short to boot!) and now if we go shopping or whatever he says I'm must zipping around.
The best thing is, I don't HURT like I used to. I was in a constant state of inflammation and that was largely due to diet. Carbs will feed inflammation like you wouldn't believe. I was stiff and sore and just plain hurting everywhere. I'm so grateful for the pain relief!
I know there are a lot of successes out there for WLS but I personally only know of two people who have gotten in done. A friend of mine died from complications from the surgery and my mom had a lot of problems with it. She got an infection that lasted for 2 months and they had to keep going back in to drain it. Thank God she survived it. Those aren't very good odds from my standpoint.
There's no doubting that many people have had negative outcomes with WLS, and we still aren't sure exactly what the nutritional ramifications of our choices are going to be down the road. I just know that for me, getting larger and larger with no real progress, and the yo-yo dieting I had done before, were not doing my body any good either. One good thing I can say about having the surgery (and I'm relatively new to all this) is that I am much more attentive to my nutritional health than I have ever been in my life, and much of that has to do with the fact that I no longer have cravings or think of food every minute of every day as I used to. My Diabetes has also been relatively "cured." So that part of it has definitely been a plus.
