Hi there Soon - I'm intrigued by what you said -- can you point me to some sources for that statement? I've done a lot of reading about metabolism, weight loss, and maintenance and hadn't heard that before. Certainly losing weight can slow your metabolism by reducing your muscle mass (preventable)and your leptin levels (not preventable), but that can happen with a diet at any calorie level. So I'm curious about why a 1200 - 1500 calorie diet would cause a metabolic slowdown? And what the process is that 'corrects' the slowdown?
I read this in The 7 Secrets of Slim People, several web sites and learned through my own personal experience.
Back in November 2004 my doctor told me to go on a low calorie diet. Instead I went online and did some research. What I found was the opposite of what my doctor recommended. Low calorie doesn't work because the body believes it is starving and will hold onto the fat. So I purchased a book from a web site where I had read this information and started to apply what I learned. Of course I didn't realize that 1800 calories a day wasn't going to cut it either. I was losing weight but it was very slow and I lacked energy. That's when I came upon a support list based on the book, Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle, which also confirmed that low calorie diets don't work.
It takes the body a while to adjust to a higher caloric intake and then fat loss begins. Since my nutrition program was not an extreme deficit it took 6 months total to see results. I increased my calories from 1800 to 2000-2400. Within 8 weeks the weight started coming off. During that time I decreased my aerobics from 45 minutes a day, 6 days a week to 20-30 minutes a day, 4 to 5 times a week. I continued my strength training, 3 days a week, 20-30 minutes a day. I also added a stretching program.
Losing muscle mass is what happens on a low calorie diet. The body has to get its fuel from somewhere and it will take it from the muscles.
What corrects the slow down? Enough calories consumed each day and throughout the day, about every 2 to 3 hours (5 to 8 meals), so the body has energy for fuel, proper functioning, nutrients, losing fat and add to that the right amount of exercise. The Harris-Benedict Formula can help determine this. It is less accurate with very lean and very obese persons however it worked for me (I was almost 200 pounds over weight). Then taking 15-20%, a maximum of 20% is recommended, off that daily recommended caloric intake and that will result in fat loss. Some people can take 30% off the number especially in cases where they have a lot to lose. I've gone between 25 and 30%. It is also best to fluctuate the caloric intake, having low and high days, to prevent plateaus or stalls.
There are lots of other components to this. It isn't just one thing. It's a combination of many things which work together to produce the results.
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BTW, all diets have to be 'deficit diets' in order to work. In other words, we have to create a calorie deficit by eating less and/or moving more to lose fat. No calorie deficit = no fat loss.
I am well aware of the need for a deficit. However too much deficit and your body will hold onto the fat and most of the time you'll gain weight. That's why 1200 calorie diets don't work for very long. Initially you may lose weight and then the body adjusts to the extreme deficit.
The best way to achieve calorie deficit is through both nutrition and exercise. That's because exercise loses one type of fat and nutrition loses another. And adding strength training to that will help keep more muscles rather than lose them during fat loss.
I've emphasized the word diet because that is the source of the problem. A DIET is about denying the body what it needs. 1200-1500 calories is simply not adequate for fat loss and providing the body with fuel and nutrients for proper functioning.
NOTE: Some bodybuilders eat 1400-1500 calorie or less before a show. My references are for people trying to lose fat.
Ok my dear...I am no expert...but do have some nutrition training and have been on many different kinds of diets.
First of all where do you carry your weight? I have tried WW, Atkins, Calorie counting etc etc etc.
I have been having health problems and finally decided that "this is IT" and that I had to do something!
I went on a low cal diet and lost 10 lbs in two weeks. That was great, but I was not learning how to eat properly...just watching calories...
My daughter gave me the south beach diet book...asked me to read it...
a light bulb went on...I have been trying that...for the last 4 or 5 weeks. I had my big water loss when I was counting calories and now I am losing at a steady rate of .5 to 1 lb a week. I am never hungry, inless I have a meal too late for some reason or other...I am already feeling healthier and I have very few cravings...
You will find what works for you! It may be hit or miss until then, but one day everything will click!! The idea of lab work is a great one as there may be an underlying cause! Good luck and keep on trying!
As for fruit and vegetables...a good way to get some fruit in, is in sugar free jello. It tastes so cool and yummy! Vegies...if you don't like them raw, experiment with different ways of cooking them...broiling, roasting, grilling etc!! Good luck!
I just recently joined Jenny Craig and it told me that I need to eat 1200 calories to lose weight... but you are saying that is a deficit diet? (confused)
Hello CookieMonster416,
Love that name! It was also my puppy's nick name because he loved my homemade puppy cookies.
1200? Based on how much daily activity?
Do a little figuring by going to any calorie counting web site and see how many calories your body uses to function. I guarantee you'll be in the hole which means your body will take from your muscles for fuel. If you lose a lot of water weight on an extreme diet that will be muscle loss. Your muscles are about 75% water.
This web site has some tools for figuring caloric intake.
For me, 52, 5'11", 280 (approx.) pounds my body needs 3219.89 calories a day just to keep going. That's from the Daily Energy calculator.
The next one to try is the Calories Burned calculator. According to it I burned 5110 calories today doing my daily living, housework, exercise, stretching, sleeping, etc.
Now imagine if I ate 1200 calories. Where would the fuel come from for the 5110 calories I burned today? My body would have to burn fat AND muscle to get that fuel. I've got a 3910 calorie DAILY deficit which is not healthy weight loss. That would be a pound + a day. I'd be losing 7.82 pounds of fat, muscle and water a week!
Btw these calorie burned calculator figures are on the high side.
My fitness software says my daily energy is more around 3135 and 30% of that would be 2195 approx., the minimum number of calories I need to consume per day for healthy fat loss. I eat between 2000 and 2400 calories per day.
It sounds complicated but it isn't. My software ages me as I age, lose fat/inches it automatically adjusts my daily caloric intake and my carb-pro-fat ratios.
He has you eating every 3 hrs to keep your metabolism going. I think this is key for me. Nothing is off limits on this plan either. Let me know if you have any questions about the plan. Good luck!!
Yep, libbysmom03, that is one big key to fat loss, stoking the metabolism fire by eating every 2 to 3 hours.
Personally I can't got past 3 hours because I get a headache - low blood sugar.
Btw this is something bodybuilders have known for years - eating every 2-3 hours.
I need some help with the food part. Here is what I was thinking:
Breakfast (8:00): Kaisha Go Lean Crunch (I'm not very hungry in the morning so even though I know I should add a fruit here - I more often then not, will not have the room to eat it along with the cereal)
Snack (usually 10:30): Banana Cream Low Fat yogurt with sliced bananas with 2 tsp. slivered almonds or Blueberry Low Fat yogurt with 2 tsp. slivered almonds
Lunch (usually 12:30 - 1:00): Turkey slices on 2 pieces 12 grain bread with a bowl of vegetable soup (1 serving - not the whole can)
afternoon snack (usually 3:00 but during the summer time we are at the pool so I'll have nothing): this is where I have a hard time - I have been having a couple of handfuls of cashews or I'll eat pretzels. I'm wondering if I should have a smoothie here
Supper: varies. I know I need to add more vegetables and that is something I need to JUST DO!!!! I usually will have a salad but I haven't been the best at that lately.
If I eat anything at night, I'll have some watermelon. Usually don't eat anything though.
Thanks for reading! Rachelle
Hello Rachelle,
Here is today's menu. I was into having a lot of protein powder today because my body needed it after a strength training session yesterday. I eat differently each day. Some days lots of greens and some days less. It depends on what my body needs.
6 AM:
1.5 cups Optimum Power Cereal
.5 cup blueberries
1 cup Protein Shake made with non-fat milk
Went back to sleep.
11:00 AM:
1 cup low fat cottage cheese
1/2 scoop protein powder
1 small peach
1/8 cup dry roasted almonds
Soon – thanks for your response. I haven’t read the 7 Secrets of Slim People (could it be because of my aversion to weight loss books with the words ‘secret’, ‘quick’, ‘EZ’ or ‘magic’ in the title? ) but have read – and highly recommend – Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle. Great plan -- you’ll have lots of success following it, I’m sure!
I agree with you that Venuto says that low-calorie diets don’t work. But his definition of low-cal diets is different than yours -- he defines low-calorie diets as being 800-1200 calories for woman (p 37) and all his criticisms of low calorie dieting are directed to that specific caloric range. I think Venuto would dispute your characterization of 1200-1500 cal diets as ‘starvation’ or ‘deprivation’ diets. Instead, he endorses the highly reputable American College of Sports Medicine’s recommendation that women not drop below 1200 calories (p 48) and his bottom line – in articles as well as BFFM – has been to stay above 1200 calories. Not 1500 or 1800. So I don’t think it’s accurate to cite Venuto as a source for calling 1200 -1500 calorie diets deprivation or starvation.
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That's why 1200 calorie diets don't work for very long. Initially you may lose weight and then the body adjusts to the extreme deficit.
Interesting, a 1200 calorie diet worked really well for me and got me to my goal weight. As a matter of fact, the way I personally lost my weight fits right into Venuto’s book (though it was published after I lost my weight), which is why I often recommend it to my clients.
When I weighed 257 pounds, quite unscientifically I picked 1600 calories per day as a good place to start. As I lost weight, my body naturally needed fewer calories to support my size and so, whenever my weight loss stalled, I dropped my calories. I finished my year of weight loss at around 1200 calories -- probabaly for the last four or five months before goal. I knew that this was about as low as I should go, but also realized that 1200 calories were necessary to get those last stubborn pounds off.
I was well aware of the importance of maintaining my muscle mass and had my body fat % checked every four weeks to be sure that I was losing fat and not muscle. Happily, I added eight pounds of muscle that year, so not only was able to preserve my muscle mass but to increase it. At the same time, my body fat % dropped from 57% to 16%. So despite my calorie levels being in that dread 1200-1500 range for almost the entire year that I was losing weight, I consider my weight loss story to be a success (and I think Venuto would also!)
Most important to me is the fact that I’m going into the fourth year of maintaining my weight loss, so not only did I lose the 122 pounds, I’ve kept them off.
At 3FC, we value and appreciate the insights and perspectives of all our members. We all have so much to learn from each other! But it’s important to recognize that what works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another and that there are significant differences between us. For example, at 280 pounds, you weigh twice as much as I do. Naturally, your caloric needs are far higher than mine and what may be a ‘starvation’ or ‘deprivation’ diet for YOU is simply maintenance calories for me. And yet it might be exactly the right number for weight LOSS for another one of our members. So when you make blanket statements like '1200 calorie diets don't work' and 'you’ll lose muscle mass' or 'your weight loss will stop', you’re going to have people like me scratching their heads. Because a 1200 calorie diet DID in fact work very well for me (as well as others here), my weight loss DIDN'T stop, and I DIDN'T lose muscle mass.
It's wonderful that you've discovered a plan that's working so well for you. But try to keep in mind that not every member here weighs as much as you do, can eat the menus that you post, and lose at the same calorie levels that you do. And though the metabolic calculators you cite do work for some people, they don’t even get into the ballpark for others (they’re off by a good 50% for me). One thing you’ll discover over time is that there isn’t a whole lot of RIGHT and WRONG to weight loss – it’s more a process of finding out what will work well for us as individuals.
Shortiemetoo, thank you for your post. My weight is carried around my middle, especially the stomach. Even when I was thin, I would be asked when I was expecting. I have long, thin arms and legs (except for the upper thighs ). I do have the South Beach Diet book but it didn't click. Thank you though for reminding me that something will - I just have to keep at it. Congrats on your moving ticker!!!!
Soon2be154 - thank you for all that info. I'm glad it's working for you.
Meg - Thank you for your post. When I have the extra money, I'll have to check Burn the Fat out. I read somewhere that Leanness Lifestyle is a lot like Burn - would you recommend that book at all? Congratulations on your weightloss!
Thanks to everyone that has shared their thoughts, advice, and wisdom! It is greatly appreciated.
Your post in response to Soon2be really rang true for me. I think you are right that it is important to remember we are all individuals at different weights with different caloric needs.......so when someone says that a 1200 -1500 calorie diet is putting your body in starvation mode, well, it's a very broad statement.
It's wonderful that you've discovered a plan that's working so well for you. But try to keep in mind that not every member here weighs as much as you do, can eat the menus that you post, and lose at the same calorie levels that you do. And though the metabolic calculators you cite do work for some people, they don’t even get into the ballpark for others (they’re off by a good 50% for me). One thing you’ll discover over time is that there isn’t a whole lot of RIGHT and WRONG to weight loss – it’s more a process of finding out what will work well for us as individuals.
Thanks for sharing your experiences!
You are absolutely correct Meg.
Thanks for the correction.
1200 calories obviously worked for you and might work as well for others.
I agree with you that Venuto says that low-calorie diets don’t work. But his definition of low-cal diets is different than yours -- he defines low-calorie diets as being 800-1200 calories for woman (p 37) and all his criticisms of low calorie dieting are directed to that specific caloric range. I think Venuto would dispute your characterization of 1200-1500 cal diets as ‘starvation’ or ‘deprivation’ diets. Instead, he endorses the highly reputable American College of Sports Medicine’s recommendation that women not drop below 1200 calories (p 48) and his bottom line – in articles as well as BFFM – has been to stay above 1200 calories. Not 1500 or 1800. So I don’t think it’s accurate to cite Venuto as a source for calling 1200 -1500 calorie diets deprivation or starvation.
By Guest Author, Tom Venuto, Competitive Bodybuilder
excerpt Calorie deficit thresholds: How low is too low?
It is well known that cutting calories too much slows down the metabolic rate, decreases thyroid output and causes loss of lean mass, so the question is how much of a deficit do you need? There definitely seems to be a specific cutoff or threshold where further reductions in calories will have detrimental effects.*
The most common guideline for calorie deficits for fat loss is to reduce your calories by at least 500, but not more than 1000 below your maintenance level. For some, especially lighter people, 1000 calories may be too much of a deficit. The American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM) recommends that calorie levels never drop below 1200 calories per day for women or 1800 per day for men. Even these calorie levels are extremely low. A more individualized way to determine the safe calorie deficit would be to account for one's bodyweight or TDEE. Reducing calories by 15-20% below TDEE is a good place to start. A larger deficit may be necessary in some cases, but the best approach would be to keep the calorie deficit through diet small while increasing activity level.
Soon- I think when you give this advice to people and say that you are losing on over 2000 calories a day, you really should post your actual statistics: your current bodyweight, activity levels, age, etc. Your posts are very misleading to people who have not actually read Venuto's books and articles.
From your posts all over this forum, I surmise you have quite a bit of weight to lose. As Meg said above, the calories levels may work for you, and work for you now, but telling everyone that they aren't eating enough because you can lose on 2200 calories a day is a disservice to other members. 1200-1500 calories will not put most people into starvation mode, and certainly not if done as part of a calorie cycling plan, as Venuto advocates.
You stated elsewhere that you are 5'10". You are taller than average which also allows you to eat more than a smaller-framed woman. Simply because of the size of your frame and the fact that you are overweight, you are probably carrying more muscle mass than a smaller woman with the same body fat percentage. This allows you to eat more and still lose. Generalizing your experience to everyone doesn't work. I'm 5'3", carry a lot of muscle for my height and age, but gain on over 1500 calories a day. The calculators say I shouldn't...but my clothes, calipers, and scale all disagree. And it's not muscle!
My stats:
52 years old
5'10.5"
275 pounds (beginning weight 340 + pounds)
Small frame (1.5 inch elbow measurement)
Ecto-Mesomorph somatype, mostly Mesomorph
My exercise program:
20-30 minutes cardio 4-5 days per week, alternating leisure to vigorous intensity on stationary cycle. Walking occasionally.
(1 day is divided into 3 - 10 minutes sessions combined before and after strength/weightless training sessions.)
30 minutes strength/weightless training 3 days per week
15-20 minutes stretching 5 days per week
My nutrition program:
2400 - 2500 calories on cardio days
2700 - 2800 calories on strength training days
50% carbs - 30% protein - 20% fat
Allowed 1 - 2 off or cheat meals per week (usually take 1 off meal every week)
Protein: fish, turkey, chicken, egg whites, and whey protein powder.
Complex carbs: oatmeal, yams, whole wheat bread, sprouted bread, whole grain cereal (Weetabix and Optimum Power), White Basmati Rice.
Fruit: maximum 3 per day with limited tropical fruits and dried fruits.
Fibrous carbs: lots!
Dairy: nonfat milk, low fat cottage cheese, yogurt, parmesan cheese.
During the last 8 months I had to take 1 month off from my regular program due to an injury (pedal vs leg). I cycled 15-20 minutes per day, 3 days a week at a leisurely pace (continued with weights) and continued to lose inches during that time.
Rachelle, you might consider checking to see if your public library has any of the books that you're interested in reading. Lets you acquire the knowledge, free of charge! Then if it's a book you decide you have to have you can purchase it when finances allow, or perhaps ask for it for a gift like Christmas or your birthday.
It was also my puppy's nick name because he loved my homemade puppy cookies.
) but have read – and highly recommend – Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle. Great plan -- you’ll have lots of success following it, I’m sure! 
