My own balance is a little different. I agree that I won't remember the bag of Oreo cookies I ate 30 years ago, but some of my fondest memories do involve food (often the context of travel): The buffalo steak tartare I had in Banff, the Sushi Sei restaurant in Tokyo, Bong Su (upscale Vietnamese) in San Francisco, Pei Modern in Melbourne... the baguette, cheese and wine feast we have every year at the cottage, Ed's Real Scoop gelato after rollerblading along the boardwalk... and on and on...
I relate to this so much. Food is pleasure and memories for me.
I am LUCKY that I have found a way of eating (so far!) that hasn't required me to give anything up entirely. I realize that's not the same for everyone and am just trying to count my blessings here. Of course, we'll see where I am in another year or two as it's been less than a year for me eating this way.
But man...I can't imagine life without being able to make and eat grandmom's recipe for white ravioli (including homemade dough). That one example says it all to me. She's been gone for 20 years but I can still bite one of those raviolis and transport back to when she was with us.
Some people are like that. My grandmother would tell "food stories" as often as anybody would let her. She'd talk about how she had a lovely lunch at a bridge game with her friends, and food items x,y, and z were served and how item x just melted in her mouth and she had to ask for the recipe. Food is a pleasure for many people, just like sports, exercise, drawing, or meditation. Pleasures require skill- you have to be able to discern what will make you feel the most pleasure from that activity. If you go for a hike in the mountains and don't know what you are doing, get lost, bug-bitten, and dehydrated then it will not be pleasurable. It's the same with food. You have to know which foods are the most pleasurable to you and to eat them in a way to makes you feel good. Eating a bunch of McDonald's cheeseburgers in your car is a wholly different experience than sitting down and savoring each bite of a really good gourmet burger. Certainly if eating a certain food makes you lose control then don't do it- that's not a pleasurable experience at all.
Remember the wise words of the Oracle at Delphi: Know thyself.
But it too me 48 years to realize it is arguably the most powerful thing we do on a daily basis that can lead to health or disease. It is, whether we want it to be or not, our fuel. And it has a profound impact on health.
I don't want to be a 'Debbie or Don Downer?'. But dementia is now exploding like diabetes and obesity before it.
I am glad people have such fond memories of food. I believe diet is the number one cause of dementia. Just be aware of that everyone for loved ones and yourself. You don't want all this pleasurable food to lead to memory lost. Trust me you do not want that. And not saying anyone reading that will ever have that happen to them or a loved one. But it does happen to people.
Everyone needs to find their own way to health and success or whatever balance they personally want to find. Perhaps some people are OK with whatever trade-offs there are. I don't know.
But food just being what it is.....is pleasure. But it is also a whole lot more, it is vital one way or another to our health or lack thereof.
I've found a good balance between a lot of pleasure and health, and I believe almost everyone is searching for their own best way for them to achieve that.
Last edited by diamondgeog; 04-01-2014 at 03:24 PM.
I do find it fascinating how food effects different people differently. When I was actively losing, I almost NEVER indulged. Literally Xmas and Thanksgiving was about it.
In maintenance it's a little different - I am allowing foods in that were previously no-nos.
But I find that if I have a day of massive overeating (think a large buffet) that completely cures my cravings for several weeks. And I eat on plan until the next episode of pigging out. I know that this would not work for everyone, but for me, it is working.
I agree that food should be pleasure at times! What we do to lose weight is what we have to keep doing to make it stay off forever, so it should be manageable and even enjoyable. Of course, there are many different plans people prefer, and choosing the one that fits individually is the way to go.
When I stopped thinking that I would have to live off of salads and chicken, or cut out food groups to lose weight, the weight started to come off for the first time ever. Personally, for me, restricting certain foods gives food too much power. I spend too much time obsessing over what I can't eat if I totally ban food groups and end up feeling deprived and quitting. But if I give myself permission to eat anything in moderation, I'm able to eat my food, feel satisfied, and move on. I also developed a new liking for vegetables, fish, etc... and healthy habits in combination with moderation works for me so far. If I cut out a food I loved permanently, I'd end up cracking and eating too much of it eventually, whether it's a month from now or 10 years down the road. If I don't cut it out, then I can control myself around it because I know it's now the last time I'm going to eat it.
There is something to be said about why celebrating with food has been done through-out human history. The book, French Women Don't Get Fat, covers why enjoying food can actually help some people lose weight or stay thin.
I also have memories that come back to me and make food more enjoyable. I remember when I was a kid, my family would take bikes and water balloons out to the fishing park, and we would barbecue food. Now anytime at a barbecue surrounded by people I like on a nice day, I definitely see no harm in enjoying a cheeseburger. It brings back that happy care-free summer feeling, and I'm more likely to eat less because I'm happy and satisfied. After trick or treating, we would come in to a pot of hot chili, and now my Halloween would feel weird without chili. The only time of year I have cheesecake is on Christmas because of tradition and happy memories. I never really ate candy or candy bars, even at my highest weight, but I do allow some snickers or reeses on Halloween because that's the only time of year eating them is enjoyable because of the moment and memories.
Food is pleasure
Food is not pleasure
Food can be pleasure
Food should not be pleasure
Pick the one that applies to you and make it work for life.
Food most definitely is pleasurable and probably is for most people. However how you manage, handle, and give place to "pleasure" in your life is a completely individual matter.
I find shopping hugely pleasurable, i find a lot of things pleasurable but i know myself, if i don't put limits and boundries on those "pleasures", i will over do and wreck my life. And.. that is ENTIRELY OKAY to do so, it doesn't imply that i'm missing out on something or acting out of dysfunction. For me, i take huge amount of pleasure in eating the healthy, relatively lower carb foods that i eat daily and eschew M&M's, huge amounts of bread and butter, etc. it's a choice for me and i can also make a conscious choice to THINK that way about my food (ie, just because i'm restricting myself doesn't mean i'm missing out on life).
Taking the negative emotion out of doing that for me is as equally important in you taking the negative emotion out of not denying yourself. ALL departure points are valid.
Last edited by 3fcuser291505109; 04-01-2014 at 04:11 PM.
I agree that food should be pleasure at times! What we do to lose weight is what we have to keep doing to make it stay off forever, so it should be manageable and even enjoyable. Of course, there are many different plans people prefer, and choosing the one that fits individually is the way to go.
When I stopped thinking that I would have to live off of salads and chicken, or cut out food groups to lose weight, the weight started to come off for the first time ever. Personally, for me, restricting certain foods gives food too much power. I spend too much time obsessing over what I can't eat if I totally ban food groups and end up feeling deprived and quitting. But if I give myself permission to eat anything in moderation, I'm able to eat my food, feel satisfied, and move on. I also developed a new liking for vegetables, fish, etc... and healthy habits in combination with moderation works for me so far. If I cut out a food I loved permanently, I'd end up cracking and eating too much of it eventually, whether it's a month from now or 10 years down the road. If I don't cut it out, then I can control myself around it because I know it's now the last time I'm going to eat it.
There is something to be said about why celebrating with food has been done through-out human history. The book, French Women Don't Get Fat, covers why enjoying food can actually help some people lose weight or stay thin.
I also have memories that come back to me and make food more enjoyable. I remember when I was a kid, my family would take bikes and water balloons out to the fishing park, and we would barbecue food. Now anytime at a barbecue surrounded by people I like on a nice day, I definitely see no harm in enjoying a cheeseburger. It brings back that happy care-free summer feeling, and I'm more likely to eat less because I'm happy and satisfied. After trick or treating, we would come in to a pot of hot chili, and now my Halloween would feel weird without chili. The only time of year I have cheesecake is on Christmas because of tradition and happy memories. I never really ate candy or candy bars, even at my highest weight, but I do allow some snickers or reeses on Halloween because that's the only time of year eating them is enjoyable because of the moment and memories.
I am actually good with all of that. I still eat potatoes even though I don't feel they are good for me. Not a lot and a fraction of what I did before.
But I have eliminated grains because of the overwhelmingly bad health impacts on me. That is an easy ongoing decision because there isn't a food invented yet that is worth back pain and allergies and a bunch of other stuff that have gone away with eliminating them. And the back pain wasn't via weight loss. I still had it around 220 lbs. That is when I gave up my last grain, it went away in a couple of days. Then I experimented and ate some corn again and it came right back.
It is interesting to me though that a year ago, I would have been no way can I ever give up fast food or wheat. Then grain free would have been mind blowing. I would have said it never would have worked for me. So I understand people saying that. Believing it. I believed it. And everyone is different. I am sure it would never work for a whole lot of people. If it doesn't work, don't do it, find something that does.
But how can anyone think they would say 'crack' in 10 years if they haven't even gotten to say one year? Has someone gotten to 10 years and cracked? Is it a guess that after you truly eliminated something for say 9 months or a year that it will get harder say the tenth year or the fifth year or third year or whatever? It is just interesting to me.
If you truly believe something is unhealthy, versus OK in moderation (two entirely different viewpoints) I think anyone can achieve anything. Obviously the vast majority of people here and in the world don't think grains are as harmful as I do.
Wow isn't it amazing how we can all be so different in our relationship with food. I remember so fondly the times that I would work on the farm with my grandmother picking green peppers and tomatoes and other veggies. I remember vividly biting into a freshly picked green pepper. I can't ever eat a pepper without remembering those times, ever!
I remember my wedding cake like it was yesterday. It was carrot cake and it had this amazing layer of cream cheese frosting that was out of this world, not sweet at all but savoury and spicy. We tried finding the bakery that made our cake afterwards but we kept driving by over and over and could never find it, even though it's in our own neighborhood. We'd call them and they'd be like "yea we're on the corner of 35th St. and Broadway" and then go there and we couldn't find it. I'll find it sometime I swear it! Can't eat carrot cake without reminiscing about my wedding.
Well, you get my point, memories and food are tied very closely together. I remember people, events, activities, vacations through food. Gosh I remember having pizza in Italy for the first time - revelation ding ding ding! If someone told me I would go to Italy again and not eat pizza I'd cry rivers!
I don't have those sorts of memories. I "remember" my wedding cake, and I know it tasted like cake...maybe better than average cake, but still cake. I remember that the pineapples we eat while in Maui are better than the ones I get while we're in WI. But I don't have the kind of food memories that you do apparently. I never associated things with food because it's so temporary I guess. And there will always be another cake, another cheese wheel etc. So I never made it that important. Sometimes a SONG will bring me a memory, but it's never happened with food that I can recall. Just "I remember that restaurant was good" but nothing specific.
I totally enjoy food and meals. They are a high point of my day which doesn't mean they are unhealthy at all.
Many wonderful memories to with food, much human bonding takes place over it. Overeating is not pleasurable, don't overeat and eat as many healthy things as you can make pleasurable, sprinkle in the other stuff as needed to not feel deprived.
With that said, when you are coming from a place of over eating and binging, I think there is value in structuring yourself to a better place avoiding carbs, sugar or whatever to get you to a point of feeling hunger and appreciating satiation from healthy food sources. It's a transition.
For me giving up sugar, which I've done in the past, allows me to really enjoy "healthy" foods. After about a week sugar free, its like the taste comes back to regular food for me. Even plain yogurt, something that tasted awful when I was eating regular vanilla or sweetened yogurt, now tastes good. It is possible to "retrain" your taste buds so to speak, and after doing so, I truly enjoy delicious and healthy foods and don't feel deprived.
When I want something sweet I will have it, but the urge to binge is gone, so I no longer feel like I "need" those trigger food. There's no craving, no internal "voice" saying eating. Those foods have lost their power (when abstaining from sugar).
I have been battling binge/starve cycle since my teens. I will say that the other key for me has been when I do over eat for whatever reason (but I do not binge anymore, say having 2 big slices of pizza when I should have stopped at 1) , I no longer restrict to make up for calories. I just go back to normal eating.
Do not feel sad for me. I have never felt so free from struggle since my teens. The weight is coming off nicely. I am eating a well balanced healthy diet, I feel physically better for it and mentally the addiction is controllable by not having any sugar. I only eat it at special occasions and it does make the cravings come back full force, so I am very very careful to only slip once in a while. This is not for everyone, but for me, I was still living in **** eating "everything" moderately because I was still consuming my heroin food (sugar), I was still hooked. Not everyone has an issue with sugar addiction but I do.
In a way I do IE, but I do it with foods that do not contain my drug. And I know that when I want to eat something, its because I'm hungry, not because my brain and body are looking for their next sugar fix.
Honestly, I've barely tackled the psychological issues I have with food. For a better part of a decade it was one of my only friends. Honestly at this point, I just want to get the weight off. I know that I have to face my demons, but self control has never been my strong suit, so if I can succeed at my "restriction" then I've won half the battle.
I don't really feel deprived and I'm not particularly miserable when I'm on plan. The only food that I haven't been able to "quit" has been cheese, and I don't need to, because I've cut it back. And I cheat occasionally.
I'd love to be able to eat intuitively, but right now I'm more concerned with getting the weight off my frame before I do major damage.
I'd love to be able to eat intuitively, but right now I'm more concerned with getting the weight off my frame before I do major damage.
I so completely understand that.
As I've written before many times on this board, my battle over excess weight has only been since I went into menopause. I struggled a bit with a little extra weight in my 20's, but my childbearing years found me thin and fit, better than I'd ever been before. For 20 years I was a normal weight and I never gave a second thought to what I ate.
I'm convinced my yoyo'ing weight gain/loss/gain over the last 10-12 years is a direct RESULT of dieting. But that is not true for many people, particularly people who have never experienced a normal weight.
I could never speak to your experience, as it is not my own. But I can empathize with you and I suspect I'd feel the very same way if I were in your shoes.
I do find it fascinating how food effects different people differently. When I was actively losing, I almost NEVER indulged. Literally Xmas and Thanksgiving was about it.
In maintenance it's a little different - I am allowing foods in that were previously no-nos.
But I find that if I have a day of massive overeating (think a large buffet) that completely cures my cravings for several weeks. And I eat on plan until the next episode of pigging out. I know that this would not work for everyone, but for me, it is working.
Jen
That's the way I manage it in maintenance, too. A few select days I eat whatever I want, in whatever quantities I want, no counting. Then I'm back on plan the very next day. That scratches the mental itch for quite awhile, but it wouldn't have worked so well in the midst of losing (like right now, I can't indulge without it setting back my progress in the last few pounds).
A little bit every day is like a creeping serpent for me. Not bad, not bad, then I blink and it's around my neck. I eat delicious, on plan foods in controlled quantities daily, so that every three or four months when I do have a holiday I can eat what I want guiltless and maintain. Moderation no intuitive eating keep me yoyoing and fighting regains. I'm a lifetime food logger, food weigher, scale watcher, and occasional free eater. It's very individual, but the advice toward more carbs and moderation leads me to awful cravings and weight creep.
But I definitely see what you're saying!
