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Old 03-26-2014, 06:28 PM   #31
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You've all been busy having a great conversation while i've been sleeping. I agree with points made my so many people here.

So long as people are not abusing one another i don't see anything wrong with debate. I think its important.

Regardless of the arguments, most people will follow the course they are inclined towards regardless of what they hear, such as people do with religion. But for some readers the debate may be useful.

I also understand that a lot of people people coming to a board like this for the first time are particularly sensitive. And i don't think telling people to toughen up will enable them to toughen up. But i don't think telling them they are doing the wrong thing is wrong either.

If you see an injured person administering poison to their wounds, do you just let them continue without protest? Well you might if its a drug addict or alcoholic lolling around on the footpath but when someone comes to a site like this, they are effectively giving permission for people to express their opinions.

I also think its useful for people to give an element of the backstory to their choices such as wannabe and her support for IE. For my part, i say why i don't make exercise a key part of my weightloss program anymore. Not that i'm against it or think it would apply to all. I should say it again though - i find regular formal exercise unsustainable. I know many people can do it. I haven't yet been able to keep up such a practice and i always find upon reaching my goal weight and trying to come down from a period of much exercise to no exercise buggers up my continued low weight. I am not saying its the only factor but its a key one. I have just never been able to do it. I admire people who can keep it up for years on end. My sister is one such person and i see many people here are able to do it. But its why i suggest people don't rely on it for weightloss.

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Old 03-26-2014, 07:39 PM   #32
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And don't forget the "ignore" option. As a MOD, I should not use it but sometimes to do just to get a break from proselytising.
Where is the ignore option?
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:43 PM   #33
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Where is the ignore option?
View the profile you want to ignore. Below their avatar picture is the ignore button.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:46 PM   #34
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Freelance I am glad you brought that up. You probably aren't insulin sensitive. If you were and eating moderate/high carbs you would be putting yourself in a lot of danger for metabolic syndrome.

So within someone's particular metabolism and genes and how their body is functioning, e.g. mine because of my choices and genes was producing too much insulin, certain approaches were more appropriate for health.

I don't want to be overly dramatic, but given my family diabetes history I either would have died or had severe health complications with any other approach.

But no one else has the exact same combo I do. So in a way we are saying the same thing. Since I am insulin sensitive I virtually 'had to' go low carb.

If you aren't as insulin sensitive you have more leeway with carbs. For instance I seem to have less than Gary Taubes who says one apple can really impact him. But more sensitive than you most likely. Or for sure when I was eating my previous way.
You got it backwards. You believe yourself to be insulin resistant. (You're probably right) You believe Freelance is not.

Yes, you are being overly dramatic in my opinon. Why? Because the simple fact is that regardless of the method one loses fat with insulin sensativity increases. You may have not been as successful with another approach but even if you followed the twinkie diet your insulin sensativity would have increased.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:51 PM   #35
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Freelance I am glad you brought that up. You probably aren't insulin sensitive. If you were and eating moderate/high carbs you would be putting yourself in a lot of danger for metabolic syndrome.
Just a technicality, but I think you mean "insulin resistant." Insulin sensitivity is actually a GOOD thing. It means that the insulin in your body is doing its job. Some oral antidiabetic drugs are called "insulin sensitizers" because they increase insulin sensitivity. Insulin resistance, on the other hand, is associated with metabolic syndrome and diabetes.

F.
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Old 03-26-2014, 07:52 PM   #36
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Again, that is why it is what works for you personally. I am insulin reistant but do well on a high carb diet.

So different folks, different strokes
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:04 PM   #37
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As for agreeing on facts, the experts can not agree on the facts. For example, there is Dr Eric Westman (an MD) from Duke who says that low carb is the best way to lose weight. Then there is Dr. T. Colin Campbell (PhD) who advocates almost the opposite with a low-fat, whole foods, vegan (plant-based) diet. Both men have excellent credentials and have studies that back what they say. However, I think that it would be impossible to meld their opinions into one diet.

If the experts can't agree, how can we?
I brought up facts first so I feel compelled to respond to this.

Facts are not the same as methods. Facts are things we know to be true. For example - calories dictate fat loss or gain. This is an indisputable fact. It doesn't mean all calories are equal or that all calories impact us the same way but the simple fact is if you're not in a caloric deficit you're not going to reduce your body fat.

I'm not one to argue methods, each to their own. I am one to argue facts.

By the way, Colin Campbell is a great example of confirmation bias in my opinion. His views are not supported by the data.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:38 PM   #38
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We agree on Campbell. Ancel Keys was also a good example of confirmation bias.

Freelance I've heard them used I interchangeably http://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/in...nsitivity.html
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:47 PM   #39
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Freelance I've heard them used I interchangeably http://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/in...nsitivity.html
From the article you cited:

People with low insulin sensitivity, also referred to as insulin resistance, will require larger amounts of insulin either from their own pancreas or from injections in order to keep blood glucose stable.

Insulin sensitivity & insulin resistance are more or less opposites, and not used interchangeably in the article.

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Old 03-26-2014, 08:50 PM   #40
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Everyone just needs to chill out, eat tons of salad, 5 cans of canned fish a day, drink beer and work out a lot.

Oh yeah. And eat oats and do squats.

Job done.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:01 PM   #41
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What if you don't like beer, squats and fish. Does that mean you just eat oats and salad? (clown picture here)
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:05 PM   #42
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No. It means you need to find another weigh.

None of this is rocket science.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:34 PM   #43
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Got it on the opposites.

JohnP so if you have a lot of fat, especially in the mid section, are insulin resistant, body is producing a lot of insulin, hungry all the time as your starting point, what would you or anyone else suggest?
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:44 PM   #44
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I'm just going to add that research on the subject of dietary influences on insulin resistance is far from conclusive and hotly contested by scientists... you know, people who have PhDs and such.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:49 PM   #45
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JohnP so if you have a lot of fat, especially in the mid section, are insulin resistant, body is producing a lot of insulin, hungry all the time as your starting point, what would you or anyone else suggest?
A (preferably very) high intake of Omega 3s from fresh, frozen or canned fish will smack that insulin resistance in the nuts and kick hunger. Eat salmon. Sardines. Trout. (more varieties available on request). With some eggs. And brocolli. Work out. And lose. Add some carbs if you like. Oats. A little bread. And honey wouldn't do no harm.

Omega 3s from fish annihilate insulin resistance.

Try it and c.
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