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Old 02-27-2014, 09:00 AM   #16  
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So watching what you eat makes you feel deprived? You are depriving yourself of good health, both physically and mentally when you are overweight. I'll take good health any day.
Not exactly. I can't speak for the OP but in my case if I'm too restrictive with what I eat makes me feel deprived. And that feeling of being deprived leads to binging. A lot of people talk about their "trigger foods" but I don't have any trigger foods, the only trigger I have is deprivation which always, without exception, has led to binging. So for example, a long abstinence from potato chips I'll be fine for a while, then I'll get a craving, then I'll indulge in a small serving (trying to stay within a calorie limit of course), and then suddenly it's a free-for-all potato chip festival! I used to perceive the chips themselves as a trigger but in fact they're not, it's the restriction against them that makes me go after them. Everyone has to follow their instincts on what to eat and how much of it, but since I've placed my favorite brand of chips in the pantry a month ago I've yet to finish the bag. The restriction is gone and so is the need to binge. I too feel like I'm in good health.

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Old 02-27-2014, 09:23 AM   #17  
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Re: Drug-like properties of foods.

Ever wonder why you can't eat a cup of butter, but you can easily eat a cup of very rich ice cream? It's the combo fats, sugars, and salt that affects our brains and really does cause a physical (not just psychological) craving. Interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner Michael Moss I read not too long ago. Very eye-opening.
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2013/07...sugar-fat.html

In this case, abstinence from processed foods is the only way to go. If you are really craving something, make it yourself from scratch not a mix (ie: ice cream or potato chips) then I bet you'll change your food habits. The ease of pre-made junk in a package causes a lot of the problem. How often did people eat fries before fast food restaurants? When they had to wash and cut the potatoes, then deep fry them and clean the frypot up after?

Sorry if I sound preachy, but while you are re-training your body to like healthy food and eat moderately, it's best not to tempt it. Maybe afterward junk in moderation once a week might work for you? Best thing is to wait and find out when you get there.
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Old 02-27-2014, 09:56 AM   #18  
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Originally Posted by canadjineh View Post
Re: Drug-like properties of foods.

Ever wonder why you can't eat a cup of butter, but you can easily eat a cup of very rich ice cream? It's the combo fats, sugars, and salt that affects our brains and really does cause a physical (not just psychological) craving. Interesting book by Pulitzer Prize winner Michael Moss I read not too long ago. Very eye-opening.
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2013/07...sugar-fat.html

In this case, abstinence from processed foods is the only way to go. If you are really craving something, make it yourself from scratch not a mix (ie: ice cream or potato chips) then I bet you'll change your food habits. The ease of pre-made junk in a package causes a lot of the problem. How often did people eat fries before fast food restaurants? When they had to wash and cut the potatoes, then deep fry them and clean the frypot up after?

Sorry if I sound preachy, but while you are re-training your body to like healthy food and eat moderately, it's best not to tempt it. Maybe afterward junk in moderation once a week might work for you? Best thing is to wait and find out when you get there.
Liana
This has been my experience, totally. Once I stopped the junk foods, I stopped overeating and obsessing about food. Well maybe I still obsess a little . If I want to feel indulgent, I can satisfy that very well and be done with it, as long as I don't use junk food. I love Kathryn Hansen's term for the craving of those binge-triggering highly refined fatty sugary salty foods:
neurological junk. By acknowledging the cravings and not acting on them, my urges to eat them are subsiding.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:01 PM   #19  
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Hey this is some really great advice/thoughts. Thanks everyone, truly!

I know it will vary depending on each individual, but I seriously think I will have to take the step of total elimination (sounds dramatic) of certain foods, my triggers. For me this is: all candy (especially "fruity" or gummy kinds), cakes, cookies, sweets in general. I can handle chips or salty/savory foods without going crazy, but I wonder if I should take a leave from fast food too. Usually the high fat content makes me feel very satisfied so I don't tend to binge, but it depends on the item. Either way it's not really a good choice.

I will have to decide whether or not to eliminate all wheat/starch items as they do not always cause binge feelings- I can handle potatoes or bread fine, Pasta would have to go though. Pizza is another binge provoker. Someone mentioned that when they eliminate sweets they move on to bread or other allowed carby foods and that triggers the whole cycle again which is a good point. I have ALOT to think about.

I've done some other research to including a blog by a person who was formerly an amphetamine addict. She quit drugs and moved on to food and shockingly found sweets created many of the same cravings that drugs would! She gained much weight by overindulging and the same mental pathways of her drug addiction were reignited by junk food. She went abstinent on sweets for good and said she naturally lost weight. What an inspiration. She also stated that abstinence from junk food means the same as abstinence from drugs: no special treats, even at parties, weddings, holidays, ever. Wow. I've thought about this and I guess I've always thought it is okay to indulge on birthdays or whatever but she makes a poignant argument I will say. I tried the No S Diet for a couple weeks in the summer but the weekend's allowances killed it for me. I guess cold turkey may be the best option.
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:08 PM   #20  
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I like that cravings and desire for junk foods disappears after a time of avoiding. That makes me feel much more positive about the idea of just telling myself, "NO" completely. It's kind of intimidating because I think of past experiences where I planned to have a small piece of cake or treat and then it went haywire.

The idea that I might just not even think consider it is and just leave it alone for good... well, strangely mind blowing. EVERY diet/weight loss effort of the past involved concessions that I get treats on special occasions (entitlement attitude much). I mean this has worked in some cases, in that I lost weight. But I wonder... if it is what hindered the overall maintenance of those losses? I'd cruise along, carefully counting points or whatever, get to a certain weight then suddenly go crazy and start overdoing it, making excuses, blah blah blah. Then I'd end up at my start point, or in this case higher than EVER.

I need to do something!! I am going crazy with unhappiness at my current state. I'm terrified to go out in public, that I might run into a former acquaintance and they'll see how much I've blown up. It's such a suffocating way of life. Always hiding, fearing, stuffing food when no one's looking. I pray that this will get me off that crazy train forever!!
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:09 PM   #21  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nostoneunturned View Post
I've done some other research to including a blog by a person who was formerly an amphetamine addict. She quit drugs and moved on to food and shockingly found sweets created many of the same cravings that drugs would! She gained much weight by overindulging and the same mental pathways of her drug addiction were reignited by junk food. She went abstinent on sweets for good and said she naturally lost weight. What an inspiration. She also stated that abstinence from junk food means the same as abstinence from drugs: no special treats, even at parties, weddings, holidays, ever. Wow. I've thought about this and I guess I've always thought it is okay to indulge on birthdays or whatever but she makes a poignant argument I will say. I tried the No S Diet for a couple weeks in the summer but the weekend's allowances killed it for me. I guess cold turkey may be the best option.
The addictive nature of certain foods is well-documented by current research. I think many of us have noticed that we couldn't control how much we ate certain things, yet we assumed food couldn't be doing that, it was just our lack of will power. It's good news in a way because then it's ok to deal with junk food by eliminating it rather than endlessly tickling our addiction thinking we should be able to 'just have one.'
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Old 02-27-2014, 10:21 PM   #22  
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The last time I attempted to lose weight, I stopped all my bad habits cold turkey and started eating tons of salads. I dropped 15 pounds like THAT. As the days and weeks progressed, I started bingeing here and there until finally i just gave up on my goals altogether. I gained all the weight back and didn't even attempt to be healthy for about another year. This time around I pretty much plan on junk food everyday...well, not everyday. But basically, if I want it, I eat it. I just do so in moderation. I have one scoop of ice cream with very rich (Ghirardelli mmm) syrup on top, or a handful of chips instead of the bag (although to be totally honest, I don't even crave salty snacks anymore. It's the sweets I can't give up!). Point is, for ME I quite literally had to do a little trial and error and I found out that I can't do abstinence. I crave the forbidden, even after the anticipated initial stages of withdrawals. You might be learning through your own trial and error and you require abstinence. But I think what is most important is to observe your own habits and how they effect you, that is where you are going to learn YOUR best 'diet tips.'

Good luck. It's hard at first and feels like a loooong journey but you just gotta put one foot in front of the other.
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:48 AM   #23  
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^^ I couldn't handle tons of salads myself! I don't really like lettuce honestly .

I truly envy those who can controllably consume small amounts and not feel overwhelmed. I no longer feel that I am that kind of person. I hate to feel like I have a problem mental health wise, that I can not control something as simple as what goes in my mouth. However maybe looking at it as a terrible habit that is triggered by consuming those particular foods I can find my way to healthy and happy. I feel like a junkie or even a toddler throwing a tantrum: I want it now! to heck with the consequences. And then the fallout continues to get worse and worse...I'm at my heaviest weight EVER. I gained 25 pounds since last summer alone! Even now I am thinking of things I wish I could eat. Nothing in the house but I feel scared for tomorrow. What's a good way to go about starting abstinence process? All in, or small steps?
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:52 AM   #24  
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Thank you all for your posts. I keep re-reading them and considering the various angles presented. I feel better, knowing that you guys have overcome some obstacles similar to this! I am going to do this.
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Old 02-28-2014, 05:24 PM   #25  
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The cleaner I eat, the easier it is for me not to overeat. By clean, I mean eating whole foods, the stuff from the perimeters of the supermarket. When I eat like that, it's hard for me to overeat. If I eat too much processed food (including bread), I start to lose control of my appetite. I don't have to completely abstain but I do need to be at about 80% clean. If 100% clean is what works for you NOW, I'd say go for it. You'll feel wonderful when the cravings stop, so long as you fill your diet with whole foods you do truly like.

In time, you may find that you can add some processed foods back w/o food taking control. I know that's caused you to backtrack in the past, but maybe there were other factors. Perhaps you hadn't been eating whole foods long enough? Or you treated the junk food as a treat or reward, which then made your regular diet feel like, well, a "diet" in comparison?

I believe we can improve our ability to handle trigger foods to an extent. Fore example, I used to never be able to eat a small brownie. I'd consume waaay more than I should. But since I've been eating better, I just can't eat as much of it as I used to. I pair it with some milk and the protein helps fill me up plus prevents a blood sugar spike. And I guess a small amount just seems bigger to me now. So change is possible. Five years ago, I wouldn't have thought I'd ever be able to restrain myself with brownies.

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Old 02-28-2014, 07:24 PM   #26  
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Abstinence doesn't have to be about deprivation. If you give up any behavior that you've found problematic, abstinence won't help (or last long) if you spend most of your time thinking about what you're giving up.

I do best when I avoid processed sugar and other high glycemic carbs, but only if I focus on low glycemic foods I love (and there are many). If I feel deprived, it's only because I chose to.

Feeling deprived comes from wanting what you didn't or couldn't choose or acquire. Contentment is about being happy with the choices you made and the things you have.

If I'm not happy unless I eat crap that isn't good for me, it is not because I needed the crap. For thay matter, if I'm not happy unless I get an apple, that isn't because of the apple.

Giving up a single food (for any reason) doesn't have to involve any drama whatsoever. It's not like giving up food altogether. There are thousands of food choices, and avoiding a few really doesn't have to be a big deal unless you choose to make it a big deal.

I have been trying to avoid wheat for several years now, and for most of it, I failed often, because I allowed myself to feel deprived. I wouuld eat pasta and bread and then suffer the consequences (itchy, red, crusting skin sores on my face, hands, and feet, digestive and joint pain...) because I threw myself a tantrum called, "It's just not fair that I can't have 'real' pasta and bread."

Now that I am choosing to see wheat as a toxin (to me) rather than as a need or a right, "abstinence" is no big deal.

People avoid foods all the time, for sillier reasons. It's perfectly ok to avoid onions, garlic, beans or sauerkraut, because they cause unpleasant breath and flatulence odors, or give you a tummyache, but it's somehow unnatural to avoid foods that promote obesity. God Forbid you avoid cake on a birthday, even if it's not your own.

Why is giving up sweets any more traumatic than giving up another food because it gives you smelly breath or foul gas (in other words, socially acceptable reasons).

If I had to choose between giving up forever, chocolate or alliums (onions, garlic, chives, leek, shallots...) I would much rather sacrifice the chocolate.

For some reason, stinky gas is considered an acceptable reason to give up an enjoyed food, but weight control isn't.

It won't kill me to give up chocolate, onions, or any other single food, and whether or not I feel deprived by such a choice is completely up to me. Feelings of deprivation or of indulgence are choices only slightly tied to behavior. You can give up all your worldly goods and be content, and you can have more than anyone else in the world and still feel deprived.

Last edited by kaplods; 02-28-2014 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:37 PM   #27  
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Abstinence doesn't have to be about deprivation. If you give up any behavior that you've found problematic, abstinence won't help (or last long) if you spend most of your time thinking about what you're giving up.
Feeling deprived comes from wanting what you didn't or couldn't choose or acquire. Contentment is about being happy with the choices you made and the things you have.

If I'm not happy unless I eat crap that isn't good for me, it is not because I needed the crap. Giving up a single food (for any reason) doesn't have to involve any drama whatsoever. It's not like giving up food altogether. There are thousands of food choices, and avoiding a few really doesn't have to be a big deal unless you choose to make it a big deal.

People avoid foods all the time, for sillier reasons. It's perfectly ok to avoid onions, garlic, beans or sauerkraut, because they cause unpleasant breath and flatulence odors, or give you a tummyache, but it's somehow unnatural to avoid foods that promote obesity. God Forbid you avoid cake on a birthday, even if it's not your own.

Why is giving up sweets any more traumatic than giving up another food because it gives you smelly breath or foul gas (in other words, socially acceptable reasons).

Feelings of deprivation or of indulgence are choices only slightly tied to behavior. You can give up all your worldly goods and be content, and you can have more than anyone else in the world and still feel deprived.
Oh so true, and well said. We need to focus on the positive... remind ourselves of all the yummy & healthy foods we choose to eat, not the crap we choose not to eat. And do it out loud when you are preparing a meal or sitting down to eat... "I get to have this delicious (whatever) and I choose to fuel my wonderful body with it so I can enjoy my life!" YEAH!!
There's something to be said for Cognitive Behavior Therapy!

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Old 02-28-2014, 07:54 PM   #28  
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I mentioned previously but I think part of the problem is we see a lot of foods that we put 'off limits' in our daily lives and sometimes, for whatever reason, we choose to have those foods. That doesn't make us a bad person, we haven't failed, etc. The thing is that that little 'cheat' of a snowball becomes an avalanche as feelings of 'well I might as well just eat it all because I blew my diet' or 'I feel so guilty for eating, I am just going to just eat until I'm stuffed'.

I used to think I was addicted to bread, but now I've realized that I just never fully allowed myself to have it and when I did, I felt like I should eat as much as I could of it while I can. The end result means eating tons of calories when if I had just allowed myself some bread and not felt guilty about it, I would've been fine. I still rarely have bread even though I allow myself to eat it, and I make my own bread regularly. The funny thing is the thing that used to be my biggest draw, I rarely actually want to eat so I don't.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:05 PM   #29  
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Great posts by Nelie and Kaplods and everyone.

I was a junk food addict. I gave myself a month of cold turkey and great things happened. My life is night and day now since I am truly no longer hungry.

I also started exercising more which studies show can get the hunger hormones working better. Also studies showing overweight people 'can't hear' the I am full hunger hormone.

In any event, for me, best thing I ever did. It seemed to reset my body and appetite. I can even have most former trigger foods and they don't trigger anything now. But I don't because wheras before I could eat and eat them, now my body rejects them and I feel awful. So as Nelie said you start craving better foods.

I've basically gone grain free because it works for me. Never though that would be possible but it was. But that leaves such an abundance of super yummy foods I am enjoying food just as much as before, probably more. And life infinitely more. When you get down to it, for me, at least grains are pretty boring tastes. A nice small piece of extra sharp aged cheddar gives me more pleasure than a bowl of cereal ever did.

Last edited by diamondgeog; 02-28-2014 at 08:12 PM.
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Old 02-28-2014, 08:36 PM   #30  
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I think abstinence only becomes a problem when you stop seeing it as a freely given choice or when you allow self worth and failure into the equation.

No one feels bad or guilty or like a total failure if they pass on the onions they're craving in order to spare others the aromas later

I firmly believe that feelings of guilt and failure and the social pressure to feel weight-related guilt and failure are the main reason weight loss statistics are so dismal. We're taught to define everything but the top 1% as failure.

By the way our culture defines weight management success, it's surprising that anyone ever makes the cut.

If you're not in the top 99%, even if you're in the top 89%, you suck! And if you don't know that you suck, you're delusional and lazy and not even trying.

So, I guess yes, abstinence will not work if you choose to tie food to guilt, but I would argue that weight loss in general rarely works when you tie guilt to food or a number on the scale.

So I guess that means, if you want to try abstinence, make sure you've ditched the guilt first.

Last edited by kaplods; 02-28-2014 at 08:37 PM.
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