It's challenging for me to accept that someone (with no health problems) who is losing weight consistantly will stop losing weight all together when all factors are even except consuming more carbs. Maybe because it's never been my experience -- in *all* the times I've lost weight. I've only and ever gained one ounce back from eating more than I was burning.
Unfortunately overweight and obese people with no health problems seem to be becoming the exception rather than the norm when you look at the rather alarming rates of incidence of everything from insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome to diabetes and heart disease just to name a few...
Now as to whether or not "carbs" are the root of all evil... and sugar it the devil incarnate.... Well.... I guess we'll just have to wait and see...
Last edited by TripSwitch; 03-02-2013 at 10:54 AM.
I'm not sure if I have to have more info to call myself carb sensitive - but I tend to stay away. I have a good fasting glucose, I don't have diabetes, I just feel kind of crashy after eating them. Like I'm weighed down. I eat rice and a few desserts, the occasional potato, and that's about it. I prefer to eat meat and veggies.
Being overweight has changed the way my body uses macros. I can lose weight with simple calorie restriction, but lowering carbs (mainly avoiding starches, sugars, and exessive quantities of fruit)) reduces cravings and works much better.
By the way - insulin sensative people will lose more weight on a high carb diet.
Most obese people have become insulin resistant and some were insulin resistant to start with.
Test to see if you're insulin sensative, functioning normally, or insulin resistant.
Eat a carb heavy meal that also has protein. (Not a giant sized meal because that makes everyone sleepy) Do you feel energized? You're insulin sensative and I hate you. Do you feel neither tired nor energized? You're response to insulin is normal. Do you get an energy crash/sleep and get hungry about an hour later? You're probably insulin resistant.
This is not a fool proof test. Everyone is different. YMMV ... etc.
The fact is that insulin is not the problem. Yes - some people have big problems with carbs. Forget those people for a second. I'm only talking about carbs and insulin.
Yes, but the article also specifies: However, in healthy people, insulin only goes up in response to meals. This means that lipogenesis will only exceed lipolysis during the hours after a meal (known as the postprandial period).
The rest of the article describes how insulin functions in healthy people and why healthy people should not worry about insulin response because everything is working perfectly. We eat, the body secretes insulin, we get our energy, we are fine, whether it's carbs or protein. The article does address the issue of refined carbs, which is what I had mentioned earlier as well that are problematic.
For myself and others -- and like TripSwitch added -- "normal" is becoming increasingly rare. You also mentioned that people who are over weight do become insulin resistant and that's true as well -- their pancreas is simply not responding to the size of the person (which is a reason to lose weight so you do become insulin sensitive, rather than insulin resistant or permanently diabetic).
And is there too much harm in reducing the amount of cookies or cakes or pies that you eat?
Yes, but the article also specifies: However, in healthy people, insulin only goes up in response to meals. This means that lipogenesis will only exceed lipolysis during the hours after a meal (known as the postprandial period).
The rest of the article describes how insulin functions in healthy people and why healthy people should not worry about insulin response because everything is working perfectly. We eat, the body secretes insulin, we get our energy, we are fine, whether it's carbs or protein. The article does address the issue of refined carbs, which is what I had mentioned earlier as well that are problematic.
For myself and others -- and like TripSwitch added -- "normal" is becoming increasingly rare. You also mentioned that people who are over weight do become insulin resistant and that's true as well -- their pancreas is simply not responding to the size of the person (which is a reason to lose weight so you do become insulin sensitive, rather than insulin resistant or permanently diabetic).
And is there too much harm in reducing the amount of cookies or cakes or pies that you eat?
I eat a carb heavy diet, and I rarely eat cookie or cakes or pies. I'm already insulin sensitive and thanks to my lone kidney, I have to watch my protein or I feel terrible. That doesn't mean I'm chowing down on cookies. Heck, I don't even like most cakes or pies or cookies. They're too sweet.
Lots of interesting information in this long thread -- thanks to all for posting. I know for me I am carb sensitive, have a family history of Type II Diabetes, and find it easier to diet if I WATCH my carbs. I can't do the extreme low carb diets where people manage to keep it to 20 g or below. I have found that for me it's not only watching the carbs, but watching what kind of carbs I have. For instance, carbs from cake with icing are a once-in-a-blue-moon luxury while I allow myself home made low carb multi-grain bread.
But, I agree with all that said that each person is different and finding what works for you is the secret.
Yes, but the article also specifies: However, in healthy people, insulin only goes up in response to meals. This means that lipogenesis will only exceed lipolysis during the hours after a meal (known as the postprandial period).
The rest of the article describes how insulin functions in healthy people and why healthy people should not worry about insulin response because everything is working perfectly.
I'm glad you read the article Rana but you seemed to have missed the point of it. The point of the article is that insulin is not the problem.
People don't become overweight because of insulin and they don't lose weight because of a lack of insulin. This is where a lot of low carb advocates seem to get lost because they've read Taubes and Taubes has cherry picked his data to prove his theory.
It's not about controlling insulin it's about controlling calories. Protein, by itself, causes insulin release. More than carbs, by themself. However, try to eat 1,000 calories of chicken breast in one setting. I dare ya! 1,000 calories of pasta is much easier. 1,000 of calories of pizza is easier still. Control calories and you control insulin.
Granted, this is a vast over simplification, because many other factors play into it. Protein and fat are more satiating is the primary factor. Insulin resistant people will have the output side of the energy equation affected by carb heavy meals is another big one.
I'm glad you read the article Rana but you seemed to have missed the point of it. The point of the article is that insulin is not the problem.
People don't become overweight because of insulin and they don't lose weight because of a lack of insulin. This is where a lot of low carb advocates seem to get lost because they've read Taubes and Taubes has cherry picked his data to prove his theory.
It's not about controlling insulin it's about controlling calories. Protein, by itself, causes insulin release. More than carbs, by themself. However, try to eat 1,000 calories of chicken breast in one setting. I dare ya! 1,000 calories of pasta is much easier. 1,000 of calories of pizza is easier still. Control calories and you control insulin.
Granted, this is a vast over simplification, because many other factors play into it. Protein and fat are more satiating is the primary factor. Insulin resistant people will have the output side of the energy equation affected by carb heavy meals is another big one.
Correct me if I am wrong, because my understanding is purely based on my own health rather than being interested in low-carb debates.
From what I understand, eating food will create an insulin response (yes, we agree). It will take carbohydrates and since glucose is a component (usually of that carb) the insulin will effectively "tell" the cells to take it and make into glycogen and store it somewhere. People who are insulin resistant can't properly secrete enough or secrete too much insulin so the storage isn't working perfectly. Glucose remains in the blood, which then causes problems -- to cells themselves, arteries, organs, and so on. This elevation of the glucose in the blood is what eventually causes/creates/is defined to be diabetes (if the blood sugar levels don't drop to normal levels).
Food -- in general -- causes this response. Carbohydrates more than protein or fats, because proteins and fats are broken down differently because of the different levels of glucose that they contain. I agree that protein increases blood sugar levels, because I've read on this very board about people who are struggling to manage their BGL who are just eating beef or chicken and not improving their numbers.
I do agree that calories matter, but I think that the quality of the carbohydrates matters as well, especially if you're dealing with possible problems with your insulin response.
I didn't know I had issues with IR and assumed I was normal, except I could easily pack 3000 calories in one day between fats/proteins/carbs and still be hungry at the end of the night. It all stemmed from my blood sugar crashing and being overly elevated when I ate, and so on until I reached 200 lbs and a doctor finally told me what was going on in my body.
Maybe as nutritional science and more studies on diabetes, metabolic syndrome and insulin resistance are done (and I know they are being conducted even as we speak) this will be clearer. And maybe insulin alone is not the only one responsible for what happens -- in fact, I'm sure it's not the only hormone that is involved in all of this. But it does have an effect and I think it also affects the other signals we get for satiety and fullness.
*sigh*
All I really know is that Paleo style of eating works for me. When I eat refined carbohydrates and grains, I gain weight and I can't lose the weight I've gained. I'm learning that lesson again right now. The 7 lbs I gained from December are 100% based on my denial/belief that I am "normal" and I can eat like "normal" people.
I think another thing we must consider about carbohydrates and by carbohydrates, i mean "simple carbs"..is that the tendency to over-eat these carbs is due to its effect on the brain in releasing the neurotransmitter seretonin which has a calming effect on the body.
When we cut out lots of carbohydrates, it has become apparent in some people, that their, then , becomes an increase in depression, which leads to greater binging of carbs and then a sick cycle develops.
Show me a single case where someone added fat in a caloric deficit. We're not plants - harvesting energy from the sun ...
Yes, thank you John! It's the food, not the insulin. Someone eating a no-carb diet will gain fat just as rapidly as any pasta fiend if calories are in excess of daily requirements. One will also lose weight eating a high-carb diet if calories are below daily requirements. Too often confounding factors get in the way of seeing the signal through the noise (changes is water/glycogen, the relative ease with which carbs can be overeaten compared to protein/fat only, sensory-specific satiety that comes from limiting food groups, etc.). Plus, there are those books... and anecdotal "proof".
