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Old 09-18-2012, 10:56 AM   #46  
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Sophia Loren is not overweight by today's standards? She's 5'8 and between 140-150 pounds and has boobs and badonkadonk and a 24 inch waist.

Also I could just post these...







The only difference I see really is that there wasn't such a focus on lean muscle mass/hardbodied figures "back in the day" - everybody wore girdles and wanted hourglass figures. I don't think that's changed too much today.
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Old 09-18-2012, 10:58 AM   #47  
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It kind of feels like you just wanted to have something to say. Especially since you don't apply, yet you keep interjecting yourself... odd. Did you even read my post?
Its an online forum... everyone here just wants to have something to say and keeps "interjecting" themselves, including you. LOL, wow... someone's panties are in a twist today huh? I'm not sure why you suddenly think I'm attacking you, but that's not the case.

Yes, I did read your post. The way it was written looked as though you were saying that in order for people to achieve these advertised healthy weight ranges, drastic measures were needed and that there was some overwhelming pressure to be "model thin" or something.

I simply stated that is not the case, and I happen to be one of many examples of that.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:15 AM   #48  
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Its an online forum... everyone here just wants to have something to say and keeps "interjecting" themselves, including you. LOL, wow... someone's panties are in a twist today huh? I'm not sure why you suddenly think I'm attacking you, but that's not the case.

Yes, I did read your post. The way it was written looked as though you were saying that in order for people to achieve these advertised healthy weight ranges, drastic measures were needed and that there was some overwhelming pressure to be "model thin" or something.

I simply stated that is not the case, and I happen to be one of many examples of that.
Yuuuuuuuuuup.

This forum has all types of bodies, weight loss methods and ideas. But sometimes someone just gets a little hairy-eyeballed...lol.

I would like to see the mini-goal or goal posts that contain these "unreasonable methods of weight loss" and "unrealistic goals".

I love those actress pictures....healthy weight AND curves...awesome!
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:32 AM   #49  
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^ Medically speaking those women were all in the healthy ranges.

We still have female celebrities who are the same size/mold today; Sophia Vegarra, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Jessica Simpson, Kate Winslet, Jennifer Hudson, Jordan Sparks, Jessica Biel (yes, she is in no way "underweight") Jennifer Lopez, the Kardashians, etc.

Need I say more?

UMMM, and at certain times, they have all been viewed as fat/overweight... Did I ever say they didn't exist? I believe what I was saying was that American has skewed beliefs on what a healthy size is. Was that just like not clear? Beyonce, Mariah, Jessica, Jordan Sparks, Kim & Khloe are women who were never in that "unhealthy" body-type category, yet they have all been called fat, big, etc... and pressured to lose weight. THAT'S MY WHOLE FREAKING POINT!
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #50  
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Sophia Loren is not overweight by today's standards? She's 5'8 and between 140-150 pounds and has boobs and badonkadonk and a 24 inch waist.

Also I could just post these...




The only difference I see really is that there wasn't such a focus on lean muscle mass/hardbodied figures "back in the day" - everybody wore girdles and wanted hourglass figures. I don't think that's changed too much today.
That was also after the Twiggy era... Known for changing the model industry, which changed our current standard of beauty.



But this tit for tat is childish, we all have our opinions, I find it rather pointless to go on.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:42 AM   #51  
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There are some good things coming out of the obesity epidemic, and that is a greater tolerance for OPEN weight loss efforts.

When I was a kid in the 70's, and joined Weight Watchers with my mother, I remember the shame that so many of the women voiced. Many of them didn't even tell their families that they had joined Weight Watchers because going to a "diet club" was on par with going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

There are still remnants of that culture of shame, and our culture places more shame on obesity than on alchohism. Worse (far worse), seeking treatment for obesity is often seen as more shameful than treatment for other behavioral problems.

If you're sober and going to AA, very few people will tell you that you "don't need AA anymore," or that you can start drinking again because you're sober.

If you're thin and going to OA, Weight Watchers, TOPS... you will be told that you don't need it anymore and can now eat "normally."

Even if you haven't lost any of the weight, people will pressure you to "live a little" and eat your trigger foods because "it's a special occasion."

When given a choice between cocaine and sugar, cocaine-addicted rats will choose sugar most of the time.

And yet we expect people to be able to "control" a sugar addiction while continuing to use sugar, while we would never expect that of a cocaine addict (Have you ever heard anyone but a cocaine addict say "you just have to learn to use cocaine responsibly").

I find it extremely strange that weight loss is still largely expected to remain "in the closet."

We treat obesity as if it's a huge, dark and dirty secret. We're not supposed to show recognition when we see it, we're not supposed to talk about it, we're not supposed to admit we need help in treating it. We're supposed to fix it on our own without talking about it. And no one tells us what normal weight loss really looks like, so we're all assuming we're failing if we're not losing at least 1 lb a week (because that's what we're told is normal, even though it isn't anywhere near normal. Most people who try to lose weight are failing, so even if you're losing a quarter pound a week, you're succeeding beyond that of the great majority of people).

Obesity is a greater health crisis than alcoholism, and yet in any given community alcohol treatment facilities, programs, and groups vastly outnumber obesity treatment. There's a tremendous amount of free help for alcoholism and virtually none for obesity (the free and funded programs are few and far between).

We really need to create an environment in which seeking a healthier lifestyle (whether obesity is involved yet or not) isn't seen as deviant, weird, or something that only the severely morbidly obese should be considering.

And the cost of treatment has to come down. Ideally the cost of healthy food would come down too.

As I mentioned in a previous thread, I have a severe problem with even the "good carbs" because they trigger such out of control hunger. My husband and I went through a period when our food budget was down to $25 to $50 a month. We weren't eligible for foodstamps because our income was a tad too high (though our medication and medical expenses were exceeding our rent).

We could have gone to the food pantry, but we were too ashamed (it didn't seem right to be hugely obese going to a food pantry - besides which most food pantries are overloaded with high-carb food, and are very low on nutritious food because everything has to be shelf-stable and carbs keep well).

I have a very good self-taught understanding of nutrition, so we ate "healthfully" by most standards. We lived on pasta (white because whole grain was too expensive), rice (white for the same reason), beans, cabbage, onions, carrots, celery, cheap ground beef extended with dry tvp, apples, oranges, raisins, bananas, dark meat chicken, and eggs.

I followed an exchange plan so I didn't gain weight, but I didn't succeed at losing weight and was unbearably hungry ALL OF THE TIME.

We do live in a nation in which unhealthy food is cheaper, more convenient, tastier, and given more emotional value than healthy food.

Most people don't even get 5 servings of fruits and veggies (even though we probably should be eating 10 or more). Many people aren't even getting one serving a day (unless you count potatoes and ketchup).

In some areas of the country, the average daily servings of fruit and non-starchy veggies is one.

This isn't just killing us "fatties" it's killing the skinnies as well. Weight isn't the most pressing issue, it's just the most obvious side-effect. We all have to be eating better and moving more.

Type II Diabetes isn't just showing up in the overweight population, it's becoming pervasive among all weight levels. Yes more obese adults and children are getting diabetes, but even thin folks and even thin children are getting the disease and are slowly dying of it, because our culture is overdosing on starch and sugar.

And yet we only single out the "fatties" as having a problem (and demand that they fix it without outside help because it's their own fault for having the problem)... but it's not just a fat problem, it's a culture-wide problem.

In some ways I worry more about the thin folks with the poor eating habits, because almost no one is alerting them to the problem. We fat folk know we need to make healthier changes (even if we're not sure how to go about it). But many perfectly healthy looking people are dying because the mirror tells them they're ok, when they're not.

People do better at solving problems when they do it as a group. And weight loss groups are becoming much more common, much less expensive (proportionally), and more acceptable. The online weight loss communities have grown exponentially as have IRL groups as well. In some ways, the obese may have the advantage. If we're trying to eat better and move more, even if we don't get all the weight off, we may be in better shape than the "normal looking" folk who are living unhealthy lifestyles because they look ok in the mirror.

I still firmly believe that obesity isn't the disease, it's the symptom of a much larger disease. We have to treat the disease, not just the symptom. Especially since I'm not sure fixing the symptom is helpful at all if it's not done right.

I don't believe that losing weight by unhealthy means is much better than the obesity itself. We can't just tell people "eat less" we have to say "eat better" and allow them the tools to do it.

Knowledge of nutrition is extremely poor, even among the experts in the field. Doctors especially are poorly educated on the subject (as in not at all, most doctors take no nutrition coursework).

Weight is just the tip of a much larger iceberg.
Very well said and very true. Health does need to be stressed much more than weight.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:47 AM   #52  
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Its an online forum... everyone here just wants to have something to say and keeps "interjecting" themselves, including you. LOL, wow... someone's panties are in a twist today huh? I'm not sure why you suddenly think I'm attacking you, but that's not the case.

Yes, I did read your post. The way it was written looked as though you were saying that in order for people to achieve these advertised healthy weight ranges, drastic measures were needed and that there was some overwhelming pressure to be "model thin" or something.

I simply stated that is not the case, and I happen to be one of many examples of that.
Well, there is an overwhelming pressure to be model thin and to deny it would be delusional. But I wasn't saying that being a healthy weight requires drastic measures, I said IF. As in IF you don't have to starve or kill yourself in the gym to be a certain weight, if you are able to naturally maintain that weight, then that's the right weight for you, but IF you can't, it's too low. It just sounds like common sense to me, but you know what they say about common sense.

Quote:
if getting to a "healthy" weight means taking drastic measures and getting down to a weight you can't naturally maintain...
And no my panties aren't in a bunch, I just get annoyed when people half-read post and reply... just a little pet-peeve of mine.

Last edited by DisappearingActs; 09-18-2012 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 09-18-2012, 11:58 AM   #53  
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I think the whole point of this thread is that "natural" eating patterns have fallen by the wayside and people need to re-learn hunger and whatnot instead of being horrendously addicted to carbs and sugars.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:08 PM   #54  
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I guess societies view on exercise has changed also, the environment we live in now can be so sedentary that personally I don't see anything wrong with busting your *** in the gym to make up for it. Is natural sitting in front of the telly or is it getting up and working out, going for a hike etc.

I also don't think what the media calls fat, and we all know they can be ludicrous, should represent what the average person believes is a healthy body. I think there's very few people who agree with magazines when they say X celebrity is fat.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:51 PM   #55  
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I think the whole point of this thread is that "natural" eating patterns have fallen by the wayside and people need to re-learn hunger and whatnot instead of being horrendously addicted to carbs and sugars.
Actually it's not, it's all about aesthetics. Nowhere in the OP is there anything about health or eating patterns.

I'm noticing a major failure to comprehend.

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I was overweight through much of grade school, and I lived with years of taunting. Regaining the weight in college, at 140, I was pretty much undatable. It seems that things have changed, and a bigger range of body types is normal now. I am thrilled for kids growing up today that they won't have to go through what I did. It makes me smile to see girls on the subway flaunting their curves. I love going to Mardi Gras and seeing drill teams of girls with big, beaudacious bodies strutting their stuff in the parades. And I love shows like Huge, Margaret Cho, and Mike & Molly with characters whose bodies I relate to. On the other hand, I still find a lean, tone body beautiful, and it makes me a little wistful that that's no longer the body type that represents America. I'm thinking in a generation or so, it may no longer be what most people aspire to. What do you think? Is it a good / positive change?
But on another note, healthy eating has taken a dangerous dive and I'm not advocating obesity or being unhealthy whether unhealthy looks like a size 14 or a size 4. After all, my goal is in the healthy weight range. I just believe America's perception of overweight is flawed and I'm all for people becoming more accepting to the fact that everybody is not meant to maintain lower weights. I don't think we should look at weight as an indicator of health. I workout everyday, weights and cardio, , I eat pretty clean, my health is great, I went through pregnancy with no complications and only put on 5 extra pounds, 4 weeks after delivery, I was back in the gym, yet simply because I'm overweight, I'm unhealthy. I really don't think too many people would disagree with that if they decided to look at the big picture and get the gist of what I was saying instead of zoning in on words that weren't even the actual point.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:54 PM   #56  
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Just because people view the issue differently does not mean a "failure to comprehend".
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:02 PM   #57  
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Oh, yeah, you're right.

I guess my first post of "I don't care what the norm is, it doesn't affect me" still applies. I'll do my thing and work on becoming more boyish by the day.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:29 PM   #58  
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Now women are busting their behinds to look like women who... without boobs, would have the body of a pubescent boy.
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If that offended somebody.. well I don't care, it's my opinion.
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I'm entitled to my opinion, whether it makes anyone feel good or not. I can't be bothered with being the protector of other people's insecurities.
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You may have children, but I'm not one of them. I'm pretty supportive. but unless the rules state that you can't express dislike for any body type... I really don't see the problem. It's not like I attacked any one member, called anyone out, accused people who are slim of being anorexic (as a previous poster basically said that people are overweight because they stuff their greedy little faces, yeah...)

So... let the hit dog holler and I'm going to keep it moving.
But thanks for the advice.
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It kind of feels like you just wanted to have something to say. Especially since you don't apply, yet you keep interjecting yourself... odd. Did you even read my post?
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UMMM, and at certain times, they have all been viewed as fat/overweight... Did I ever say they didn't exist? I believe what I was saying was that American has skewed beliefs on what a healthy size is. Was that just like not clear? Beyonce, Mariah, Jessica, Jordan Sparks, Kim & Khloe are women who were never in that "unhealthy" body-type category, yet they have all been called fat, big, etc... and pressured to lose weight. THAT'S MY WHOLE FREAKING POINT!
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And no my panties aren't in a bunch, I just get annoyed when people half-read post and reply... just a little pet-peeve of mine.
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Actually it's not, it's all about aesthetics. Nowhere in the OP is there anything about health or eating patterns.

I'm noticing a major failure to comprehend.


Whatever point you were trying to make was completely overshadowed by the way your presented your opinion. Several of the comments you made were insulting and you are coming across as very defensive when anyone calls you out on this. I'm not sure why either, no one attacked you; if anything you attacked other members. I feel as though the failure to comprehend was perhaps on your side.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:02 PM   #59  
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This is interesting because I suddenly find myself in my "healthy" weight range. I'm a size 12/14 hourglass. In no way am I skinny, but I am not overweight either.

I don't think being overweight should be THE norm, but I think it should be recognized a norm in the spectrum of various body types. Overweight people should be considered important consumers and members of the community. I think there has been a lack of consideration of the overweight from lack of decent clothes made to lack of accommodations. I think moving away from that is positive.

At the same time, I would love to see people find ways to make healthier eating and fitness part of their lives. I do think many people are carrying too much fat on their bodies. I don't want people to lose weight because pressure from society but because they have made that decision of themselves.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:11 PM   #60  
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Whatever point you were trying to make was completely overshadowed by the way your presented your opinion. Several of the comments you made were insulting and you are coming across as very defensive when anyone calls you out on this. I'm not sure why either, no one attacked you; if anything you attacked other members. I feel as though the failure to comprehend was perhaps on your side.

^EXACTLY^

i was just re-reading this thread and noticing how something defensive/rude was said by the OP in almost every reply. well said.
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