There is a big difference between healthy and being over weight.
One does not indicate the other.
That said I don't personally believe one can be obese and healthy. Overweight yes, obese no.
As for socially - I think kids are going to make fun of other kids who are different regardless. Big nose - big teeth - fat - skinny - funny name - different color .... you name it.
It's bad. It's a simple biological fact that the human body was not designed to carry around 30-40-100+ extra pounds. Diabetes, heart disease, arthritis, stoke, high blood pressure, cancer, etc., are all more prevalent in those with extra weight.
In trying to make everybody feel good about themselves all the time, we've lost sight of the fact that they're slowly killing themselves and affecting their quality of life while they do it.
This is pretty much what I intended to say but Robin beat me to it. And for the people who say they think the average or normal weights are too low - well, there are medical reasons for the weights being what they are, not some person's idea of what looks good. The overweight biomass of the world is staggering. Even more staggering is the fact that while the US is only about 6% of the worlds population, we carry about 20% of the overweight and obese pounds of the world on our frames. This means we need more food to sustain us, more fabric to make our clothes, more health care, etc. This is not a good thing.
I don't ever want anyone to get picked on. But we are totally losing sight, as a nation, as a world, of the health risks and extra expense involved with being overweight and obese.
I lied to myself for 25 years that I was healthy at 250+ pounds because I didn't have high blood pressure or high cholesterol or other indicators of possible health risks. That's a crock of bull when you come down to it. I'm still considered a few pounds overweight, and that may never change, but I am certainly healthier than I was. Anyone who is 10% to 15% over their ideal weight should be taking a good hard look at their thought process if they think it doesn't matter to their health. It matters more than we want to admit. Losing the extra weight should be a priority. And doctors SHOULD advise patients who are overweight - at great risk of offending, I know - to reduce to a healthier level and recommend ways to do it. And we shouldn't take offense any more than if we were being given advice on what type lotion to use for a rash. The problems caused by being overweight are an epidemic today. We need to realize that and stop fooling ourselves.
I'll get down from my high horse now. Sorry for the rant.
I honestly think it's important to be the best 'you'. I have no boobs. Never have. They get a teensy bit bigger when I'm bigger, but never larger than a B and defintely an A when I'm thinner.
I know this and I love my small boobs. I dislike hearing people shaming models for being too thin and having 'no boobs'. It's not always a lack of weight that means they have 'no boobs'. It's an actualy body type that all sizes have. I'm a 'pear shape', and my hips and thighs are large but I have small breasts.
I don't mind. I love it in fact. But shaming any body type is not cool. Being healthy should be first and foremost. I probably won't be a twig at my goal weight of 150, but I'll hopefully be strong from nutrients and exercise.
I have many skinny friends who drink, smoke and eat fast food all the time. That's what needs to change. Our view of health. Skinny doesn't = health and slight overweight doesn't = slob.
However, the bigger you get the more the person is eating and the less healthy is.
I find it incredibly sad to see the majority of people being overweight, especially children. I saw a friend's picture on Facebook of their daughter's swim team. Every girl on the team was about 7-11 and all of them were not just chubby, but very overweight for their age. I would say obese, but I don't know how much that is in children. It was astonishing. It was the same at t our YMCA pool this summer. Over half of the children at the pool, all ages, we're seriously overweight. Only one boy wore a t-shirt to cover himself. All the rest of the children were in too tiny suits. It's not that I mind seeing their bodies, it is the deeper message that it is totally fine to be huge nowadays.
I feel like an adult can dowhatever they want with their body. If yo screw it up, well, it's on you. And many of us were slim growing up, but got hit by the college and pregnancy train. Those bad choices were OUR decisions. But these kids?? Putting an almost guarantee on a lifetime of being overweight is incredibly sad and wrong. It is not genetics that makes our children fat. It is the parents. Fast food, convenience meals and the ever -busy lifestyle that prevents parents from focusing n healthy meals, and having the patience and commitment to see that they are eaten....makes fat kids.
I see all the stories On here about those who have struggled their whole life. And maybe it's just my perception, but those stories are often more painful and affect the person with longer and deeper emotional consequences. Why would I want THAT to be the norm?
Last edited by ChickieChicks; 09-17-2012 at 03:05 PM.
If that offended somebody.. well I don't care, it's my opinion.
Serendipity just bashed curvier shapes and nobody said anything about that... Yeah, so... if that's what you aspire to be, good for you, but I'm not really going to apologize because my opinion offended your aspirations.
Who is seriously to say that somebody deemed as overweight (not obese) according to our NEW standards, is unhealthy? A little prejudice isn't it? My cousin is 5'5 and 164, she plays volleyball and is in great shape, but according to the "charts" she's overweight. I say it's bull and in a society where women with bodies like Kim Kardashian and Miley Cyrus (before the weight loss) are considered pudgy, chubby, and fat... yeah, I'll say the idea of healthy weight is too low.
If that offended somebody.. well I don't care, it's my opinion.
hmmmm. well, i hope no one ever offends you by saying something you dont like. ever been called fat? stupid? ugly? anything? well, that was just their opinion so i guess its okay!
that is a poor attitude to have.
Last edited by juliastl27; 09-17-2012 at 08:35 PM.
Disappearing Acts - Averages for healthy weights are arrived at by experts who analyze lots of data from the health field, not by someone who simply has an opinion of what looks good. Someone who is fit and active but weighs more than what is typically deemed healthy can still be healthy. Their lifestyle is taken into consideration. Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimmer, has a BMI of about 24 - the very top of what is considered "normal'" by most standards. I have a BMI of about 25. We are certainly not in the same physical shape.
I have zero in the boob department. One of my best friends has excess boobage. We are the same height and she is about 10 pounds heavier than I am, but we can wear the same pants easily because she has weight where I don't. We can't wear each other's shirts. I actually don't consider her heavier than me - all the extra pounds are in her chest. You can't control that. In that respect, some allowances have to be made. Same as for your athletic cousin. But the averages for good health are still valid. It has nothing to do with looks.
Curvy is fine. Skinny is fine. We are overweight and under nourished because we eat the wrong things too often. It is accepted because advertising makes us think it's OK. We want convenience. We want speed. We want meals to be easy because we are busy. You can think the idea of a healthy weight is too low, but you are wrong, medically. The normal weights are not based on how we look, but on where medical problem begin. No one in their right mind would call me too thin. I am a couple pounds over the top weight for my height. Someone like me proves the point that the "normal" numbers are probably right where they need to be. I have no health problems, I am not fat anymore but I'm by no means skinny. If I lost 20 more pounds I would still not be "too" skinny. We have to accept the fact that our health depend on our believing that the healthy weights are what they are for good reason - most of the time, for most people. We all have our opinions, and they are all valid as opinions. But saying the normal weights are too low because we think a curvy look is more pleasant to the eye is like saying wearing a seat belt isn't necessary because we don't like the way they feel. Statistics will prove us wrong.
Disappearing Acts - Averages for healthy weights are arrived at by experts who analyze lots of data from the health field, not by someone who simply has an opinion of what looks good.
The problem here is that the "statistics" are derived from a faulty pool.
The problem with "healthy weight" statistics is that they're not determining optimal weights based on healthy, fit, individuals. They don't at all take into consideration diet and exercise (or other health factors).
The misleading component is that weight in-itself is a measure of health.
If you take two 5'7" women at 125 lbs, they both would be seen as having a "healthy weight," but if one is eating skittles and Doritos and lifting her beer is her only exercise, she's going to be of very different health status than the other woman who is eating lean proteins, healthy fats, and large amounts of produce.
The problem is that we also assume that a woman of the same height who weighs 175, is less healthy than both of the prior women, even if she eats a whole food diet and is extremely active and muscular. Heck she can have 12% body fat and still be considered nearly obese by BMI standards.
I think it really does make more sense to stress the healthy habits and less the possible results of the poor habits. Some people can maintain a weight that is considered healthy, and yet be terribly unhealthy because of poor diet and no activity.
We make weight the more important issue, rather than the secondary issue.
If diet and exercise were the main focus, most of the weight issues would resolve themselvews, and it would also help avoid the issue of folks trying to reach a "healthy weight" by extremely unhealthy and even dangerous means.
We've made fat a fate worse than death, so that people are willing to risk death to conquer it. They're even willing to sacrifice their health TO get thin.
To lose weight, I personally had to learn to put my health above my weight. I decided I had to stop crash dieting, because the crash diets weren't helping me get healthier, they were doing the opposite. But it was hard to know that, when even doctors were encouraging me to do the crash dieting, because of the false assumption that the crash dieting had to be healthier than the morbid obesity.
I'm confident in my belief that focusing on the healthy behaviors is more productive than focusing directly on the weight. I just wish I'd learned it much earlier (along with my personal experience that even many foods that are generally considered healthy are not healthy for me).
For decades, I mostly dieted by the methods my doctors encouraged me to use. I suppose I still do, as I really only tried low-carb diets again, because my current doctor recommended that I do so (though I was skeptical at first, because they're still seen as "unhealthy" by the mainstream).
I think that's another issue in itself - that much of what we're taught is healthy really isn't, at least for some of us.
I've been dieting since kindergarten, and mostly I have avoided all of the foods that most people associate with weight gain. My family always served meals that even today would be considered very healthy, and yet I still had difficulty with my weight. Until I discovered moderately-low-carb paleo dieting, I wasn't able to lose weight except by tortuous methods of crash dieting and/or diets that left me insanely hungry 24/7.
I had to learn that healthy for me, is not what is considered healthy by most of the professionals even now. So what do I do? Ignore the "common sense" advice, or trust my experience?
Well for now, I've been working at getting to believe that paleo is as healthy for me as it appears to be. The problem is I have difficulty believing it, and am still constantly tempted by whole grains and fruit because "everyone knows they're healthy."
I've had many people tell me there's no way someone could be fat, eating what they see me eat - so they believe I'm scarfing down junk food when no one is looking. I'm not. I'm just eating too much of the high-glycemic "good carbs" like fruit and whole grains. To lose weight without starvation hunger, I had to change my understanding of healthy, and it's still difficult to do.
I think the weight loss research is starting to come around, and find that the high-carb diet we consider isn't so healthy.
So there's two problems. One is that people eat what they know is unhealthy, and two is that people eat what they think is healthy but isn't.
It's not always easy to sort out which people are which (or even which is true in our own cases, sometimes).
If that offended somebody.. well I don't care, it's my opinion.
Serendipity just bashed curvier shapes and nobody said anything about that... Yeah, so... if that's what you aspire to be, good for you, but I'm not really going to apologize because my opinion offended your aspirations.
Who is seriously to say that somebody deemed as overweight (not obese) according to our NEW standards, is unhealthy? A little prejudice isn't it? My cousin is 5'5 and 164, she plays volleyball and is in great shape, but according to the "charts" she's overweight. I say it's bull and in a society where women with bodies like Kim Kardashian and Miley Cyrus (before the weight loss) are considered pudgy, chubby, and fat... yeah, I'll say the idea of healthy weight is too low.
I'd say it has to do with body fat percentage. What others are saying is right, higher body fat is linked with a ton of health problems, especially fat in the belly area. Everyone is built differently, and I know a lot of women that are considered curvy just because of their frames. They'll never be "skinny" but they are a healthy weight for THEIR body type. When you start getting around 30% plus body fat, you ARE unhealthy, it doesn't matter how aesthetically pleasing your body is.
I don't buy that being overweight is "accepted" by society at large. Can someone provide me with examples of society celebrating all these big folks?
Now, that I'm a "skinny" person I get a lot more comments about me being too skinny. Is it annoying? Oh, yeah, but it will *never* reach the treatment I received when I was big. I just don't think things have changed so drastically so quickly.
Last edited by memememe76; 09-17-2012 at 10:36 PM.
Disappearing Acts - Averages for healthy weights are arrived at by experts who analyze lots of data from the health field, not by someone who simply has an opinion of what looks good. Someone who is fit and active but weighs more than what is typically deemed healthy can still be healthy. Their lifestyle is taken into consideration. Michael Phelps, the Olympic swimmer, has a BMI of about 24 - the very top of what is considered "normal'" by most standards. I have a BMI of about 25. We are certainly not in the same physical shape.
I have zero in the boob department. One of my best friends has excess boobage. We are the same height and she is about 10 pounds heavier than I am, but we can wear the same pants easily because she has weight where I don't. We can't wear each other's shirts. I actually don't consider her heavier than me - all the extra pounds are in her chest. You can't control that. In that respect, some allowances have to be made. Same as for your athletic cousin. But the averages for good health are still valid. It has nothing to do with looks.
Curvy is fine. Skinny is fine. We are overweight and under nourished because we eat the wrong things too often. It is accepted because advertising makes us think it's OK. We want convenience. We want speed. We want meals to be easy because we are busy. You can think the idea of a healthy weight is too low, but you are wrong, medically. The normal weights are not based on how we look, but on where medical problem begin. No one in their right mind would call me too thin. I am a couple pounds over the top weight for my height. Someone like me proves the point that the "normal" numbers are probably right where they need to be. I have no health problems, I am not fat anymore but I'm by no means skinny. If I lost 20 more pounds I would still not be "too" skinny. We have to accept the fact that our health depend on our believing that the healthy weights are what they are for good reason - most of the time, for most people. We all have our opinions, and they are all valid as opinions. But saying the normal weights are too low because we think a curvy look is more pleasant to the eye is like saying wearing a seat belt isn't necessary because we don't like the way they feel. Statistics will prove us wrong.
Lin
I understand that the system is designed by professionals, I still don't think it's accurate. They don't take into account the weight differences based on ethnicity. Asians generally weigh less than others of the same height, because of this, they can be categorized as underweight, African Americans and Samoans generally weigh more than others of the same height... but do they take that into account? Nope...
And to deny the fact that if getting to a "healthy" weight means taking drastic measures and getting down to a weight you can't naturally maintain... well it's just being blind.
Now I have no problem with skinny, thin, curvy or whatever someone wants to be, I'm just saying most women aren't made to be this way yet society pushes this "healthy weight" chart as if it applies to all women and now you've got girls in the bathroom puking into the toilette and starving themselves to be something deemed acceptable by a society and group of scientist with racially biased body weight ideas.
hmmmm. well, i hope no one ever offends you by saying something you dont like. ever been called fat? stupid? ugly? anything? well, that was just their opinion so i guess its okay!
that is a poor attitude to have.
People are going to call you something... It takes too much energy to get offended over personal opinions... I'd be an emotional wreck.
I'm entitled to my opinion, whether it makes anyone feel good or not. I can't be bothered with being the protector of other people's insecurities.
I'm entitled to my opinion, whether it makes anyone feel good or not. I can't be bothered with being the protector of other people's insecurities.
it just seems to go against the spirit of this community. most of the members try to create a supportive and positive place on this forum. i cant tell you what to do, but id adjust my attitude accordingly.
I don't buy that being overweight is "accepted" by society at large. Can someone provide me with examples of society celebrating all these big folks?
Now, that I'm a "skinny" person I get a lot more comments about me being too skinny. Is it annoying? Oh, yeah, but it will *never* reach the treatment I received when I was big. I just don't think things have changed so drastically so quickly.
Haha, that's what I'd like to know. Like I said before, being fat is probably the worst thing you can be in our society. It doesn't matter if you're a one eyed, toothless troll, if you're fat, people will judge you for it. And harshly. There are also a lot of thin mean girls that get very catty if you call a large woman curvy. "They don't have curves, those are ROLLS, I have curves, my measurements are blah blah."
I see it all the time on articles and forums. Then you have the women that are mean if they see you actually trying to do something about being overweight.
I don't believe overweight OR thin should be the norm. If someone is healthy, why does it matter either way (which should be determined between the patient and their doctor and no one else)? For that reason, weight should have nothing to do with appearance or the quality of life. People judge more on outer appearance vs. personality and that is not okay. Society should evolve to become less shallow. I can think of many qualities in people that are worse than carrying extra weight, but society as a whole is vain and people think that's okay. It's not. We're supposed to be an intelligent race, and seeing other humans only on the surface and chalking it up to 'human nature' is not okay, and it shows we have a very long way to go.
So while I'd rather people stop caring about size and judge more on personality, I know it's not going to happen. So if I had to chose, I'd rather society and the media push curves and a more attainable body type. Body confidence in women is sad. Women are more depressed than men, and it's because media and society makes us depressed by putting our worth in our weight and appearance. So yeah, I agree with the OP that it will be great to get rid of the super thin image, or at least represent both ends. The body type they shove down our throats now is a rare body type for those with lucky genetics, and they use the rarity to get us to BUY things. If food ever becomes more scarce, the body type we aim for now will be considered unattractive (today's average was incredibly beautiful back when food was harder to attain, thus the paintings). So whatever it takes to improve confidence in the majority of women, I'm all for it.
It's amazing that now we have more than enough food in developed countries to go around. Most people are no longer starving and fighting to survive. We have advanced, and instead of this being bad thing, it should be looked at as an accomplishment, and a time for CHANGE. It's time to learn to manage all the food we have, and learn how to utilize it towards health and energy. And I hope research steps it up a notch on obesity studies. It's time to learn to combat obesity (and maintenance) in easier ways instead of just blaming and judging. I find it sad when thin people judge overweight people because they don't realize how likely it is in today's world for their children or grandchildren to one day be the person they judge. Plus, it would be a lot easier for us obese and overweight people to be happier and get out more if we had support and weren't looked at as scum.
