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Old 04-05-2014, 09:00 AM   #91
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IE...intuitive eating. I think it's basically, eat when you're hungry and what you want but stop when you're full and don't eat if you aren't hungry. At least from my understanding.
Basically, yes. It's also about learning to trust your body and learning how to develop the skills of assessing hunger and fullness. Many people don't think they can do IE because their hunger/fullness system is broken (mine was) but since it is something we are born with we do have it and it can be developed and become strong.
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:30 AM   #92
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I guess what I'm trying to say is that I am very happy for people for whom IE works (wish I was one of them). I understand the excitement of finding something that works and wanting to share that with everyone. However, I sometimes get the vibe from IEers that they've unlocked "THE" secret to happiness/weight loss/normal eating, and that the rest of us who are following typical "diet" plans are doomed to failure; I like reading the former, but the latter vibe can be a bit discouraging, that's all.

Hope you're not offended by my honesty. I just wanted to add another side to your comments about dieting being a "neverending tightrope" by sharing my experiences.
I'm not at all offended, thanks for pointing this out. If there's anything I don't want to do it's alienate people who are doing something different than me or come across as better than thou. I don't have all the answers and I'm not an authority on anyone but myself and even that is questionable given my past food behaviors lol. The enthusiasm you sense from me does not stem from knowing any secrets, it's probably liberation instead. Since I've taken myself off diets I've almost completely stopped binging, and have made much better food choices overall. This is kind of a big deal for me because my ED is so debilitating. So when I think about restrictions, food rules, falling on and off wagons it makes me very uncomfortable because I remember how awful I felt on a diet.

My body is like a car with a broken engine. It doesn't matter if I put in high grade fuel that's low cal, nutrient-dense, sugar-free, grain-free, and antioxidant rich. I have to fix that engine first or my car is going nowhere. Diets address fuel issues, IE is addressing my engine issue. I won't derail the thread anymore, please check your PM. And I'll try to tone down my enthusiasm.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:18 AM   #93
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I'm over 40 so I hear and feel the same way about discouragement over the constant vigilance.

Let's say in order to lose and maintain a weight we are happy and healthy with we have to be spot on for the rest of our lives.

So what? What's the alternative? Dying at 60 a fat, unhappy mess, or hopefully living into our 90's a healthy, less unhappy mess? I think our families would prefer the latter probably.

I know it's easier to say then to feel, and people being intelligent, they KNOW it's the truth, and there are going to be times when the struggle and depression becomes too much, that we give up. Sometimes that will last for a long time. The important thing is to come out of it, to reaffirm what is really important, and move in a positive way again.
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Old 04-05-2014, 10:37 AM   #94
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I'm over 40 so I hear and feel the same way about discouragement over the constant vigilance.

Let's say in order to lose and maintain a weight we are happy and healthy with we have to be spot on for the rest of our lives.

So what? What's the alternative? Dying at 60 a fat, unhappy mess, or hopefully living into our 90's a healthy, less unhappy mess? I think our families would prefer the latter probably.

I know it's easier to say then to feel, and people being intelligent, they KNOW it's the truth, and there are going to be times when the struggle and depression becomes too much, that we give up. Sometimes that will last for a long time. The important thing is to come out of it, to reaffirm what is really important, and move in a positive way again.
Yep... This is perfect. I hate that I am doing a little bit of yo-yoing, but better to yo-yo a bit and to figure it out than to just say "to heck with it" and give up.

And I'm not starting from zero. I am still down over 30 pounds from where I was and I have not lost all my fitness (was exercising regularly through end of October). While it will FEEL like I'm terribly out of shape, I didn't lose 3 plus years of strength training and fitness in those months. I can STILL see muscle that wasn't there 4 years ago.
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Old 04-07-2014, 02:11 PM   #95
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IE...intuitive eating. I think it's basically, eat when you're hungry and what you want but stop when you're full and don't eat if you aren't hungry. At least from my understanding.
A very useful idea, but so many people confuse thirst, emotional need, etc for actual hunger. Best way is to ask your self if you are hungry enough to eat (insert a non-favorite but healthy food here). If you are, then go for that food. If not, then you aren't really hungry; what you REALLY want is something else, emotional soothing, a big glass of water, etc. Then realize it and fulfill that need in a non-food way; call a friend, take a walk, drink the water in a fancy crystal wineglass.

I know, easier said than done. But real health means being in tune with what our bodies (and minds - emotional health) require and not just defaulting to 'food.' North Americans are some of the most overfed people on the planet - we need to get a grip.

Liana
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Old 04-07-2014, 03:19 PM   #96
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A very useful idea, but so many people confuse thirst, emotional need, etc for actual hunger. Best way is to ask your self if you are hungry enough to eat (insert a non-favorite but healthy food here). If you are, then go for that food. If not, then you aren't really hungry; what you REALLY want is something else, emotional soothing, a big glass of water, etc. Then realize it and fulfill that need in a non-food way; call a friend, take a walk, drink the water in a fancy crystal wineglass.
That's a very simplified version of what IE is. The process you have outlined is repeated ad nauseum across the dieting world. "If you aren't hungry enough to eat an apple then you aren't really hungry." There are people who have posted just today about trying to force themselves to eat healthy, then they binge. IE is a process that focuses on feeding the right foods at the right times for your body.

Instead of just following the cues of your conscious mind (ie. you should eat an apple if you are hungry for chocolate) you need to develop (if you want to try IE) a deeper and more robust understanding of what your body is telling you. Eating an apple when you want chocolate is going to have many people eating an apple and then bingeing on chocolate later. Drinking water out of a fancy wine glass isn't going to cut it.

It's also not about giving in and eating chocolate whenever you have a craving for it (another popular understanding of IE). I get cravings for foods that I don't indulge. I'll get a craving for chocolate but I'm not hungry so I just ignore it. I'll want a donut but I realize that it's just because I'm bored and want a distraction from the task I'm working on. Sometimes I'll be a little hungry and want a small snack, but I just tell myself that I will eat at my next meal. It's no big deal because I know I can eat what I would like to eat at my next meal. I'm not going to force myself to have steamed kale and a chicken breast because it's healthy.

IE allows me to enjoy my food without guilt. I eat less than I ever have and I don't feel deprived at all because I'm not forcing myself to eat a certain way because that's what is "healthy". IE allows me to sit with my hunger and still feel comfortable, unlike most Americans who are afraid of hunger and feel the need to stuff themselves with foods that scientists, corporations, and politicians have told us are healthy for us.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:33 PM   #97
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A very useful idea, but so many people confuse thirst, emotional need, etc for actual hunger. Best way is to ask your self if you are hungry enough to eat (insert a non-favorite but healthy food here). If you are, then go for that food. If not, then you aren't really hungry; what you REALLY want is something else, emotional soothing, a big glass of water, etc. Then realize it and fulfill that need in a non-food way; call a friend, take a walk, drink the water in a fancy crystal wineglass.

I know, easier said than done. But real health means being in tune with what our bodies (and minds - emotional health) require and not just defaulting to 'food.' North Americans are some of the most overfed people on the planet - we need to get a grip.

Liana
I completely agree that real health means being in tune with what our bodies require. And yes, Americans are overfed yet undernourished in so many ways.

However, the "hungry enough to eat an apple" analogy is not helpful. If people don't understand their motives for eating, are not in touch with their hunger/satiety signals and mostly eat for reasons than hunger, then how can they possibly understand their hunger enough to eat something they don't want to eat anyway?

That's like saying "if you're not tired enough to sleep on the cold pavement then you're not really tired."

Instead, IE can help those of us who have compulsions to eat out of non-hunger.
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Old 04-07-2014, 04:57 PM   #98
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I had an IE moment at a brunch place yesterday. The place had various food stations where you could custom-order omelettes, crepes, waffles, mini-pizzas, etc. I chanced upon a warm beef sandwich station that looked really appetizing and ordered one. (Normally a beef sandwich would be the last thing I order. I'm an omelette and crepe gal.) It was delicious and totally hit the spot, so I didn't feel the need to order anything else.

It seems to me that an important part of IE is following your "food mood" of the moment (within reason, of course). If you're craving meat, eat meat, etc.

F.
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:33 PM   #99
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I had an IE moment at a brunch place yesterday. The place had various food stations where you could custom-order omelettes, crepes, waffles, mini-pizzas, etc. I chanced upon a warm beef sandwich station that looked really appetizing and ordered one. (Normally a beef sandwich would be the last thing I order. I'm an omelette and crepe gal.) It was delicious and totally hit the spot, so I didn't feel the need to order anything else.

It seems to me that an important part of IE is following your "food mood" of the moment (within reason, of course). If you're craving meat, eat meat, etc.

F.
Definitely an intuitive eating moment! Congratulations for honoring your body's wishes.

I've done the same thing. I've gone into a restaurant I frequent and where I am familiar with the menu ready to order a favorite meal, only to decide to eat something completely different. Generally it's because I may glance at the menu just to see if there's anything new and see something that's always been there but didn't appeal to me until just that moment. Or I might see someone eating a particular dish that suddenly just looks so yummy - why not try that?

I've never been disappointed when I change my mind at the last minute. And more often than not I don't have anything particular in mind when I sit down in a restaurant to eat. I'll order what is most appealing to me at that time.

Gone are the days of frantically searching a restaurant's menu online for nutrition facts and adding up calories to see what will fit into my "eating plan" before I get to the restaurant, then forcing myself to eat something I might not really want just to make sure I don't "go over" for the day.

God, I REALLY hated that. So glad those days are gone.
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Old 04-07-2014, 05:42 PM   #100
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I had an IE moment at a brunch place yesterday. The place had various food stations where you could custom-order omelettes, crepes, waffles, mini-pizzas, etc. I chanced upon a warm beef sandwich station that looked really appetizing and ordered one. (Normally a beef sandwich would be the last thing I order. I'm an omelette and crepe gal.) It was delicious and totally hit the spot, so I didn't feel the need to order anything else.

It seems to me that an important part of IE is following your "food mood" of the moment (within reason, of course). If you're craving meat, eat meat, etc.

F.
Haha brilliant. You may be more of an intuitive eater than you think freelance!

Since I've been doing IE I realized something wacky. When I was following a diet, eating either the "approved food" or the "bad food" I was very narrow minded on food. I was either being good or binging on bad food I wasn't allowed to eat. Those choices were so limited. Now I find myself exploring new foods and eating foods that I previously thought I did not like. Last week as I was preparing my tuna salad sandwich on whole wheat I was shocked to realize that I wanted some freshly sliced tomato on that sandwich. I've never liked raw tomatoes before. Now they must be on my sandwich or else... tuna is really good with tomatoes by the way. And today, free to eat anything I wanted, I craved a fajita with left over sausage and veggies and I even topped it with low fat yogurt - something I considered diet food before.

It's surprising what your body craves if you allow it to crave something.
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Old 04-07-2014, 06:24 PM   #101
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I'm over 40 so I hear and feel the same way about discouragement over the constant vigilance.

Let's say in order to lose and maintain a weight we are happy and healthy with we have to be spot on for the rest of our lives.

So what? What's the alternative? Dying at 60 a fat, unhappy mess, or hopefully living into our 90's a healthy, less unhappy mess? I think our families would prefer the latter probably.

I know it's easier to say then to feel, and people being intelligent, they KNOW it's the truth, and there are going to be times when the struggle and depression becomes too much, that we give up. Sometimes that will last for a long time. The important thing is to come out of it, to reaffirm what is really important, and move in a positive way again.
Vex, thanks for this, it puts my regains in perspective, I know the first time or two (slow learner) I thought "I'm cured, now I can be a regular eater" but I didn't know what a "regular eater" would eat. Last time I thought I've changed my lifestyle, but then job change, stress, irregular eating, lots of time and miles in the car derailed my healthy lifestyle, being an intelligent person I knew what I had to do, but couldn't get back to it.

New job, regular schedule, 1/3 of the commute, DH's commitment to a healthier lifestyle, inspired me to think I could lose it again, now that I'm close to goal I have what I feel is a healthy fear of the regain, I'm pretty much in a maintenance mode that works for me. Just a few pounds to go, but if I stay where I'm at, I'm happy, I eat healthy, exercise, am enjoying life.

I've walked thousands of miles in the regaining moccasins, hopefully they're worn out...

thanks
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:23 PM   #102
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I eat low carb because I have diabetes. I have been overweight my entire life and have lost and gained several times. I did Weigh Down in the 90's which is a faith based IE group- lost weight, taught the classes, gained the weight back because too much emotion has always been tied to whether or not I was hungry. Huge stress happened and I put it all back on and then some. I did WW which was point counting... but I again lost and gained. South beach... as someone said, rinse repeat....

In may I was dx'd with diabetes and had blood pressure in the 200's. I started eating low carb and then gluten free (because of the wheat/inflamation connection) I've done pretty well and really have no desire to cheat but was getting discouraged because the last couple of months I was stalled. Now normally the stalling point is when I would quit and then gain. Diabetes has kept me on plan. This time I had to look at what I was eating, still low carb but my calorie needs (I don't count them but they do figure in even for the low carbers) aren't what they were 84 pounds ago. I am now adjusting what I eat down a little and starting to see a little movement. I don't feel like I'm under restriction low carbing (I'm just more inventive than I used to be food wise)

Most morbidly obese people didn't get there with normal capabilities to deal with food. We use it to avoid feelings, or to mask feelings, we use food to celebrate, and to grieve. We can compare ourselves to "normal eaters" but we aren't so we have to work this thing and however that looks - keep working it.

For me, working it included starting a facebook group of my friends who are working on weight issues and we post our workouts everyday. Its a closed group and we encourage each other. I separate my meals, no grazing and I am always the next meal away from starting over- no more of the idea that I messed up by 7 am so the rest of the day is fair game. I've had to look at what has derailed me in the past and figure out how to overcome that.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #103
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I don't know people like that because most of the people i know are not significantly overweight. Generally its me who regains and loses. I don't care what people think. Its just my life.

But of course i don't want to regain and this time i'm very focused on how i'm going to maintain and keep going forever. Its been about making it easier to lose and then maintain and its been a lot about the mental stuff.

I expect I will reach my goal easily before the end of the year. My concern is how will my running race and training impact my chances of regaining.

This is such a different way of thinking about the future than how i've thought about "being there" in the past.

I agree entirely with linjber. An awareness of the need for restraint is a key factor.
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Old 04-07-2014, 08:59 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by Wannabeskinny View Post
I completely agree that real health means being in tune with what our bodies require. And yes, Americans are overfed yet undernourished in so many ways.

However, the "hungry enough to eat an apple" analogy is not helpful. If people don't understand their motives for eating, are not in touch with their hunger/satiety signals and mostly eat for reasons than hunger, then how can they possibly understand their hunger enough to eat something they don't want to eat anyway?

That's like saying "if you're not tired enough to sleep on the cold pavement then you're not really tired."

Instead, IE can help those of us who have compulsions to eat out of non-hunger.
Sorry if I made it sound a little simplified... perhaps that led to misunderstanding. I agree people need a bit of professional help to figure out what their real needs are, and not to 'default to food, ' as I stated before. Life is about so much more than that. We need to learn to enjoy other things as well as food.
I've noticed though, that very few people who have difficulty with 'cravings' are craving healthy food, they generally crave processed junk. Just playing 'devil's advocate.'

Liana
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:16 PM   #105
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It's not simplistic, I'm just pointing out that the apple analogy doesn't apply to anyone. I don't think anyone should judge their hunger based on the capacity to eat something they don't want to eat. Hunger is valid long before it gets to the point of resorting to eating something you don't like. Besides, if someone is eating for reasons other than hunger then hunger is not any kind of gauge at all. That's why I always secretly laughed when someone would try to give me a hunger or diet tip. If I'm not eating from hunger then why do I need to curb my hunger?
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