Anyone using Stickk.com?

[slowrunner]

I searched through old threads, but the most recent mention of Stickk was a year ago, so I thought I'd give it a shot and see if anyone is still using the site.

For those who haven't heard of it, Stickk lets you set goals on the site, then you have the option to set financial incentives to help you achieve those goals. The money you lose for not achieving your goal (based on a weekly check-in, and you can designate a referee to verify that you're being truthful about your progress) will get pooled each unsuccessful week until your goal period is up, and then gets disbursed to whichever person or charity you choose to send it to. I love the anti-charity idea (to have it automatically donate to a charity you hate!), but you can also have the money sent to a charity you support or to a friend (or enemy!) you really know.

I've set up a weight loss goal with no financial stake (to lose 45 pounds in 20 weeks), but am thinking about doing one with a financial stake for walk/jog mileage. I saw in the old threads that some people had set goals in the past - is there anyone working on a current goal? Want to be each other's supporters? If you would like to add me as a friend, my name there is also slowrunner. Happy goal-setting! (Woah, nearly posted with that saying "Happy goat-selling!" )

[kaplods]

In college (about 25 years ago) we discussed and debated the ethics of the "anti-charity" method for behavior change (substance abuse, smoking cessation and weight loss). For many years, there have been organizations and therapists who supported anti-charity donations for behavior change "failure."

It sounds like a great idea in theory, but in practice it can really mess people up. If a person chooses an unrealistic goal and fails, or if they fail for any reason (even a "good" one); on top of the "guilt" the person may already be prone to piling on themselves (because that's how we tend to do these things), they now have the added guilt of supporting a charity they oppose.


I don't like the idea of punishing failure at weight loss, because in 40 years of dieting, punishment only diminished my chances of success. I also think turning undeserved guilt into deserved guild is making one problem a bigger one.

It's like punishing less-than-perfect weight loss by firing squad.

I think if you pick a charity that you think does good work, but which annoys you for a petty reason, that could work, but I think you have to pick that anti-charity very carefully. If you can't reach your goal for some reason (in or out of your control) are you going to regret your choice for the rest of your life. And is knowing you contributed to a morally repugnant charity going to eat at you forever.

You also have to know your own state of mind and self-judgement. If you already feel like a miseable piece of human trash because of your weight, how will you feel for contributing to a cause you despise if you fall short. I can't see how it could make you feel better.

It also doesn't reward partial or even "almost there" success.

If your goal is 20 lbs, and you lose 19.9 - you've still "failed" and will still have to give to the charity (at least if you choose a referree. And if you choose an honor system and don't follow through, will you feel guilty about that too?)

I think it erases any feelings of success for partial success. And that's already a problem in weight loss. "Almost" doesn't count. It was my error in judgment most of my life. I always counted partial success as total failure. The one time I got close to my goal weight (within 5 lbs), my doctor lowered my goal by another 10 lbs. Those 15 lbs felt like a thousand. I could barely see myself getting to the original goal, and instead of thinking "even if I can't lose another pound, I can keep off the 70 lbs I've lost," I thought "Another 15 lbs? I can't lose another 15 lbs. I'll never lose that. I'll never be thin enough. What's the use of trying so hard, if I'm going to be fat no matter what I do?"

I just hate the idea of anything that perpetuates that cycle, and I think the anti-charity can do that, if you're not really in a super-adjusted headspace, or if you tend to make unrealistic goals, or tend to be really hard on yourself.

I'd definitely suggest choosing an anti-charity that annoys you, rather than one you find morally reprehensible. Of course some people will say "where's the incentive in that?" Personally I think positive incentives work a whole lot better (with fewer long-term negative consequences) than the fear of punishment for failure. Weight loss is tough enough without sacrificing your personal ethics and morality (or even risking it).

[lostangel05]

I have never heard of this site, but thanks to your post, they have a new member! I sent you a friend request. My goal is to lose 57.4lbs in 37 weeks. I didn't set any stakes since I'm currently unemployed. Cool idea, thanks!

[CocoLoco]

I have used stickk for a couple of years off and on. I really like that it sends you an e-mail every week to check in with your weight (or other goal) ... so even if you have no stakes, it's a good way to help you remember to be accountable.

I did get frustrated with it in the past, because I would get too far behind on my goal.. there was no way of catching up.. so the following weeks it was "you failed, you failed, you failed" and you can't cancel or adjust your goal.. BUT I really like it this time, because I keep getting "you were successful" lol

[slowrunner]

I'd thought about adding a disclaimer in my post that financial incentives (including donations to an anti-charity) are probably not for everyone, and now I guess I wish I'd taken the time to do so. I understand your concerns kaplods, though I don't share them on such a generalized basis.

Frankly, any unmet goal is demoralizing and disheartening, but we all have our own ways of setting these goals and sticking to them. For example, in my case, I hate failing in front of people I'm close to, which is why I haven't really discussed my weight loss plans with anyone around me. I've been successful so far, and don't plan to bring anyone else from my "real life" into my weight loss journey because I neither want the attention nor am I interested in advice from all the non-obese people around me. This is just my personality, and I enjoy the idea of chugging along and letting people realize for themselves that I'm losing weight. Simply put, I don't want to be patronized. Now, some people reading this may think "Wow, that's a terrible way to lose weight." Some of those same people would also probably freak out that I don't count calories, I don't believe in restrictive diets, and I've eaten at McDonald's this week. The thing is, it works for me. I exercise and take in as much fruit, whole grains, and water as possible. That's it. I've lost 9 pounds in the past month, I'm still losing, and I don't feel stressed about my "plan" at all. I feel far more stressed about the thought of having a butt this big for another year. My way may not be popular or hardcore enough for everyone, but it's my way.

My point is, we all have different ways of motivating ourselves - some of us need face-to-face support from family and friends, some of us prefer the semi-anonymous support of strangers with whom we have something in common (like here on 3FC), and some of us need a mix of both. Some of us need to count calories, while some of us see calorie-counting as numerical torture. Likewise, some people can do well with a financial stake that ends in donation to a charity (even an anti-charity), others might do well with a friendly wager with someone they know, and others only need a "contract" with no particular incentive to get them motivated. There's simply no blanket solution for everyone.

For those on Stickk who choose an anti-charity as their motivation (from among several other choices), one has to give them the benefit of the doubt that, as conscientious adults, they were responsible in both setting a realistic goal and not making the financial stakes so high that they will be crippled with shame for supporting that anti-charity. It's a serious personal commitment, and certainly should not be taken lightly. As such, if a person already feels like a "miserable piece of human trash" when (voluntarily) signing themselves up for such a goal, and would be so deeply affected by failure, I'd argue that the problem is with the person rather than the method. No one should sign themselves up for something like this if they can't accept (or afford) the possibility that they may fail. (Incidentally, the financial stakes on Stickk are not "all or nothing." You set a final goal, but your success is measured weekly and the financial stakes are charged only for the weeks you did not meet your goal.)

In any case, I was just putting this out there in case there is anyone on 3FC who uses the site and would like to support each other as we work on Stickk goals. We all learn over time what works best for us, and if you feel like setting goals this way is something that might work for you, please feel free to join me!

And, great, lostangel05! I've just added you. Good luck with your goal!

[indiblue]

The discussion on punitive measures and motivation for unmet/met goals is interesting, but just to comment quickly on the economics of stickk, slowrunner have you read Nudge? Named as a book of the year by The Economist last year or the year before, it discusses the importance of economic incentives and choice architecture in public policy to help people make the decisions they want to make but have difficulty doing. They mention stickk.com a lot as a useful resource for people attempting to quit smoking, lose weight, etc. A great book, I highly recommend it whether or not economics is your forte

[slowrunner]

CocoLoco, I was wondering that (about getting behind on the goal). That's why want to stick with a nonfinancial weight loss goal for now until I know how to "play the game," so to speak. I might still set a goal with financial stakes for mileage-per-week once I get the hang of it, though, since mileage is something I can control. But first I want to think more about which financial incentive I want to use.

indiblue, Thanks for the book recommendation! I've just ordered the Kindle version and will delve into it once I've gotten through "The 4-Hour Body". Reading through the Amazon synopsis, it sounds like a great book even beyond the financial incentive bit. The concept of choice architecture is quite fascinating (store already use it for evil, so why shouldn't we use it for good?), and I'm really interested in seeing how it's being implemented in the US with the calories on restaurant menus. I haven't been back to the US since the calorie requirement came into effect, but I followed the debate on it in the news, so I'm curious about how that extra bit of information in my face will affect my food choices when I visit. I remember some friends complaining about it when the law was first passed - "We all know a Big Mac is unhealthy - this is just more government babysitting!" - but I thought it was brilliant. What's the harm in having the calories there? You can still get whatever you want! The one time I'd been to a place that had the calories on the menu (before the law went into effect - this was in Berkeley, CA), it certainly did make me think twice about ordering that mocha drink. Anyway, thanks again - I can't wait to read it!

[Tonyia]

Kind of sounds like what I did to quit smoking but there was a difference.

I wanted to rescue a boxer dog, my husband agreed that we should rescue him. So we did, my husband tells me that in order to afford the extra expenses of owning a 4th dog that we'd both have to quit smoking. I agreed that I would quit because I desperately wanted to help this dog.

So we rescued the dog and I started to quit smoking, after 18+yrs of smoking I traded it in for dog food basically LOL

[CocoLoco]

I just wanted to mention that I believe they updated how the site works in regards to weight loss since I last "fail fail failed" ... because this week I was not successful, BUT it gave me a reasonable goal for next week.. not a you need to catch up, or you fail again type of goal. My end goal is still the same, but my weekly goal is achievable.

[Serbrider]

I joined up. my start date is Friday though. My goals are: take 15k steps a day or 100k a week. And to lose 50 lbs in 37 weeks... By my 19th birthday.

[slowrunner]

Good luck, Serbrider! I know your post was a good while ago, but it looks from your signature that things are going well!