Like we've said many times - one persons extreme is another persons *answer* I *extrememed* myself all the way to goal - 165 lbs off and kept off for 3+ years. 3+ delightful, glorious, out of this world, better than I ever could have hoped for stupendous years. For me, what some would consider *extreme* was my answer and the key to freedom.
Freedom. That's what I've found by setting boundaries, making certain foods off limits (very strict initially), counting my calories.
When people talk about addictions, they DO tend to try and lump them all together. I used to get very upset hearing people say they are addicted to food, or addicted to chocolate. Id thibk, "how can they possibly understand/know what its like? They dont have a REAL addiction."
After struggling with a meth addiction for 7 years, an opiate addiction for 4 years, and cigarrettes my whole life, i felt very qualified to judge
Now, after struggling with food as well, i realize something omportant about addiction:
Chemically, it is all different ( amongst the nuerotransmitters i mean, whether we are talking dopamine synapses, or seratonin synapses or whtever) but what really DOES classify an addiction, is the place it takes in your life. As SOON AS eating/disordred eating disrupts your life, it is an addiction. AS SOON AS you begin isolating yourself, or stop going to do activities you used to love, its addictive behavior. if it takes over every other thought, all the time, it is addictive. If your emoptions/mental well-being are tied so closely to the "drug/activity" its an addiction. I began to notice similarities between my behaviors using meth, pain pills, and then, SUPRISE food/dieting. DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR...that is when its extreme??
I hope I don't offend anybody by my thoughts, but here they are: I feel so sad when I read many of the posts in this forum. Yes, everybody wants to be in top physical shape and good health, of course. Maybe it's because I'm older than many here (55), but it really hurts my heart when younger women make dieting the complete focus of their life. They obsess about each morsel, work themselves to death exercising. So many are so very very unhappy if they feel they don't look perfect. Yes, I'm fat now and working on it, but it doesn't consume my every waking moment. I was slim throughout my 20's and 30's, the weight started coming on in my 40's, mostly because I couldn't work out like I used to but felt I could eat the same way. Now I'm cutting down and working out 4 days a week for 2 hours at a time.
Every now and then, please stop and smell the roses, that's all I'm saying. Life is so short, you're only young once, try and enjoy each day and not worry constantly. Do your best every day but don't beat yourself up. I lost several dear friends to breast cancer at a young age, they would give anything to enjoy another day on earth. Try and be happy!
I, too, think that the poster was speaking only of herself. If you feel "tarred by the same brush," you might look at who is holding that brush. I don't think it was the OP.
I think that for some people, there is a very fuzzy line between being committed, diligent, dedicated, etc., and being obsessive and rigid. Rockinrobin sees herself as the former. The OP realized she herself had slid into being the latter.
I think lots of folks can benefit from asking themselves where they are really at in this. I recently saw an episode of the show "Intervention" where two twin women were anorexic and killing themselves. They were so far into it that they would weigh out three blueberries so they could count the 2 calories in them. They both ate 300 calories a day, and they completely and totally resisted anyone's attempts to help them. Now that really is extreme--but they didn't start out at that point.
Being an alcoholic, I can say that the relationship with food is both different and the same. It's different in that I never have to drink alcohol again, but I do have to eat. It's the same in that there's a certain mentality of wanting more, more, more--what rockinrobin has called looking, looking, looking... And that mentality has to be derailed, IMO, for me to be successful with controlling my food intake.
I'm reading these replies to the original post and am amazed at the direction it has gone. In reading the original post, I was hearing her make a statement about "extreme behaviors" not so much about the details. She was using what for HER was extreme and was just saying don't go all extreme to get to your destination because it's not sustainable. It wasn't a personal attack on people doing what she considered extreme for her just a little "testimony" if you will of what happened to her. She was at 1200 calories and the bodybug wasn't the problem it was her NEED to have the bodybug whenever she made a move. When it becomes consumption which in some cases supersedes dedication and discipline there is a problem. I eat on plan and workout regularly but if I happen to go a weekend and don't go to the gym for an hour but I am cleaning house, doing laundry and washing the car...exercise is gotten. It's not my habit to miss exercising and use house cleaning as a workout but it doesn't cause a meltdown if that's how I do it. When it comes to counting calories I count everything even my sugarfree gum. Everyone thinks I'm doing too much but it works for me to know exactly what I ate. As for my exercise I make sure I get it done but I have NO idea how many calories I'm burning. I just know I'm getting great results.
So if you don't take it personal when someone makes a subjective statement then it's a new lesson learned...sometimes.
I hope I don't offend anybody by my thoughts, but here they are: I feel so sad when I read many of the posts in this forum. Yes, everybody wants to be in top physical shape and good health, of course. Maybe it's because I'm older than many here (55), but it really hurts my heart when younger women make dieting the complete focus of their life. They obsess about each morsel, work themselves to death exercising. So many are so very very unhappy if they feel they don't look perfect. Yes, I'm fat now and working on it, but it doesn't consume my every waking moment. I was slim throughout my 20's and 30's, the weight started coming on in my 40's, mostly because I couldn't work out like I used to but felt I could eat the same way. Now I'm cutting down and working out 4 days a week for 2 hours at a time.
Every now and then, please stop and smell the roses, that's all I'm saying. Life is so short, you're only young once, try and enjoy each day and not worry constantly. Do your best every day but don't beat yourself up. I lost several dear friends to breast cancer at a young age, they would give anything to enjoy another day on earth. Try and be happy!
I understand where you are coming from, but I don't see myself as rigid and obsessive. I go out to eat, I eat mac and cheese and ice cream within limits, I drink a glass of wine about once a week. I eat pizza - real pizza. Dieting is a A focus, but not the entire focus - my job, friends and family are in there too. I still go out to eat with friends and my boyfriend. I don't spend hours in the gym - I mainly walk as my exercise. I take a high calorie day once a week, where I go up to 1,600-1,800. I have only just begun, again, and I lost 2 lbs this week. So, I feel encouraged to keep going.
And, you know what -I am happy. Will I be happier thinner? Yeah, because it might mean that I can conceive a child, which is why I am doing all this. At almost 43, that is not going to be easy, and being above a healthy weight makes it all the more difficult.
Last edited by jillianfan; 07-26-2010 at 12:45 PM.
This is just me, but being the child of an alcoholic and having an eating disorder , it always bothers me to hear weight loss/bingeing compared to alcoholism. IMO while they share similar addictive properties, they are not the same. Not all addictions are the same. Moderation for a food addict might be different because we can not completely abstain from food and in the end, we have to learn how to deal with that. Alcoholism is a very very difficult disease(as is compulsive overeating/bingeing), but it is on a different spectrum. Getting off my soapbox now...
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Thank you for saying this. I too grew up in an alcoholic home, am married to a recovering alcoholic and I find it semi insulting when alcoholism is compared to food addiction when the alocholic can live without alcohol, but I can't live without food. Can I live without chocolate? Of course. Do I want to? Um, no. I only live once and chocolate in moderation is fine and enjoyable. 5 candy bars in one sitting is not fine and not enjoyable 5 minutes later. Big difference.
I feel so sad when I read many of the posts in this forum. Yes, everybody wants to be in top physical shape and good health, of course. Maybe it's because I'm older than many here (55), but it really hurts my heart when younger women make dieting the complete focus of their life. They obsess about each morsel, work themselves to death exercising.
Paula, I sometimes feel the same way, to the point that I find myself spending less and less time here...
Personally, obsessiveness always backfired on me, at least in the long run. I lost weight quickly on strict diets, but always ended up regaining. Whenever I tried the all-or-nothing approach, small lapses often lead to huge binges, because I never learned to eat treat foods in moderate amounts. Just the sight of a cookie or slice of bread could have set me off on a week-long gorging spree followed by feelings of guilt, shame, exhaustion and exasperation. Needless to say, going back and forth between these extremes wasn't good for me, either physically, mentally or emotionally.
What finally worked for me was taking a cue from my family in Europe --focusing on balance and moderation, eating lots of fresh, natural foods but also enjoying things like bread, wine, baklava... It took a while to fully adapt, but doing so has trained me to be satisfied with small treats, and has given me peace of mind that I never got from obsessing about every bite, lick and crumb.
I agree with this, but to state that a 160 lb. woman needs 2,400 calories a day to maintain her weight is not right. Maybe if she were working out a lot, every single day - that is what I burn when I walk for like an hour and a half to two hours. But on sedentary days, the calories needed to maintain are much less for a 160 lb woman. Trust me on this.
Well, to be fair, I am 108 pounds and 37, and I eat more than 2,400 calories every day to maintain. And I only work out three times a week. I've even cut back on exercise on those three days to make room for other things, and I am still eating that much. I don't think one can make make assumptions about calories at any size. We are all different. If I have learned nothing else from spending time on weight-loss blogs, it is that there is no magic formula that will determine how much people at a certain weight can eat. It's totally individual, based on body composition, history of yo-yo dieting, the type of food one eats, the amount of exercise one does, one's general metabolism, etc. I can't imagine eating even 1,500 calories a day at maintenance. I tried to do that once, when attempting to lose weight, and felt like I was starving. I also didn't lose a pound in the month that I ate clean at 1,500 calories. I only started losing weight when I upped my calories.
Last edited by Petite Powerhouse; 07-26-2010 at 01:11 PM.
Well I think it's okay that this thread turned away from the OP, that happens QUITE often and I don't see how to avoid it as when someone posts something, then we chime in with our own experiences.
And Paula, I very, very rarely see anyone here who makes their weight loss there sole purpose in life and therefore not enjoying life - I mean we are only seeing one small portion of that life - here - at 3fc - where we talk about and focus on - weight loss - because that's what we're here for.
The thing about my focus, dedication and devotion to my food, exercise, my weight, my health - is that it hasn't taken anything away from my life - it has ENHANCED and IMPROVED my life in every little aspect, beyond my wildest dreams. So every ounce of energy, every minute spent on adhering to this wonderful way of life is time VERY well spent. It accomplishes something incredible - hopefully a LONGER life, but while I'm here - a much better quality of life as now I am finally a happy, healthy, energetic, self confident, clothes loving, active, productive, motivated, useful, outgoing, friendly, helpful, best I can be - ME.
Well, to be fair, I am 108 pounds and 37, and I eat more than 2,400 calories every day to maintain. And I only work out three times a week. I've even cut back on exercise on those three days to make room for other things, and I am still eating this much. I don't think one can make make assumptions about calories at any size. We are all different. If I have learned nothing else from spending time on weight-loss blogs, it is that there is no magic formula that will determine how much people at a certain weight can eat. It's totally individual, based on body composition, history of yo-yo dieting, the type of food one eats, the amount of exercise one does, one's general metabolism, etc. I can't imagine eating even 1,500 calories a day at maintenance. I tried to do that once, when losing weight, and felt like I was starving. I also didn't lose a pound.
You are lucky, because you apparently have a super high metabolism! And I might add, the exception, not the rule. I think most people are more like me - I don't have a high metabolism, but not a sluggish one either. I can burn 2,400 calories in a day, but only if I work out a lot OR do a lot of activity. Actually, on the days when I don't work out, but am active - cleaning the house, going to Wal-Mart, helping with house renovations, doing laundry, hauling books to the library, etc., I burn 2,400 calories plus.
So, I guess I see what you are saying. Really, the key is just get the rear moving, doing anything at all, consistently, to get the calorie burn going.
Last edited by jillianfan; 07-26-2010 at 01:14 PM.
I definitely don't want to offend anyone. I didn't view my actions as extremist at the time, until the flip side came. I spoke to a nutritionist and a psychologist about this flip, and they both agree that this was over-restriction and borderline eating disorder to eat so few calories and try to determine calories burned so precisely. From what I've seen at 3FC (and I've been here a while), there are very few people here who eat that little and count every calorie burned, and those that do are often advised by the everyone else to try to take it easy a bit.
The bold is the reason why I was offended. It says that eating so few calories and trying to determine calories burned so precisely is a sign of having a borderline eating disorder. I eat that little and determine calories burned precisely, ergo, I have a borderline eating disorder.
Maybe it wasn't meant that way, but I took it that way.
Last edited by jillianfan; 07-26-2010 at 03:27 PM.
I wanted to share this because it's easy to take to extremist actions when you're trying to lose weight- it's the reason why most of us don't last a month on these crazy fad diets. And it's easy to slip into the extremist mindset even if you don't start out with it. I think the most important thing is asking yourself "Could I do this everyday for the rest of my life?" if the answer is no, then your diet isn't going to work long-term.
So I'm back, and I'm counting calories again- this time heeding my own warning.
Well, it sounds like you learned whatever you needed to from this experiment. Good luck to you, Kelly315. You can do it!
I can see how that might rankle, jillianfan--but remember that those two people weren't talking to you. Maybe they saw more to the OP's story than we know.
I also wanted to say that it's not possible to precisely track calories burned with most devices, even a Body Bugg. Did I really burn 160 calories walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes? Maybe, maybe not. that's why I generally didn't count calories burned--I just set my target intake level and went with that.
And the calorie values given in most food databases are averages. A plus-or-minus is always going to be involved. I don't know that the chicken breast I just cooked really contains 30 calories per ounce. Close? Probably. But that's all I can say.
Don't get me wrong--tracking can be a great tool--I also tracked calories during my weight loss, and it taught me a LOT about foods that I never knew. Which is why, for example, I almost never eat pizza. It is just not worth it. Plus I now know it has those layered sugar-fat-salt triggers ("The End of Overeating" explains this).
I can see how that might rankle, jillianfan--but remember that those two people weren't talking to you. Maybe they saw more to the OP's story than we know.
I also wanted to say that it's not possible to precisely track calories burned with most devices, even a Body Bugg. Did I really burn 160 calories walking on a treadmill for 30 minutes? Maybe, maybe not. that's why I generally didn't count calories burned--I just set my target intake level and went with that.
And the calorie values given in most food databases are averages. A plus-or-minus is always going to be involved. I don't know that the chicken breast I just cooked really contains 30 calories per ounce. Close? Probably. But that's all I can say.
Don't get me wrong--tracking can be a great tool--I also tracked calories during my weight loss, and it taught me a LOT about foods that I never knew. Which is why, for example, I almost never eat pizza. It is just not worth it. Plus I now know it has those layered sugar-fat-salt triggers ("The End of Overeating" explains this).
Jay
You are right - the psychologist and the nutritionist had other facts to go on. I guess it just came out wrong on the OP's end, or I took it wrong. I guess that I am sensitive because losing weight is so hard for me, and I have to be restrictive or I don't lose, and I feel like my whole approach has been called into question as disordered eating.
And I know that the bodybugg is not 100% accurate, but it is accurate enough that it keeps me moving. Food logs are not 100% accurate either - I log onto livestrong, and their calorie counts are all over the place for the same food. Still, these two devices provide a ballpark of where I am at, along with a road map.
That said, I am only on my second week back, after having gained 15 lbs from my last endeavor. I lost weight this way before, and going off of it had less to do with feeling deprived then it did just getting comfortable (ooh, I am getting thin again, I might as well eat!) I just have to keep my head in the game this time, and I will do it.
I guess that I am sensitive because losing weight is so hard for me, and I have to be restrictive or I don't lose, and I feel like my whole approach has been called into question as disordered eating.