As I lose weight, I realize the many reasons that people are heavy and I try not to judge them. I have not walked in their shoes.
...or ridden on their scooter!
(I'm sorry! I couldn't help it! My totally twisted sense of humor rears its ugly head! forgive me??? )
I agree with you - I'm the same way. I was so ultra-thin during my hi-school & college years & now that I've hit a high of 192 after dieting/losing/gaining/dieting/losing/gaining for two+ decades, I too realize the many reasons that people are fat - and I try not to be judgmental. I try not to be judgmental even on myself! -and believe me! - that ain't easy!
While it's true that some people may be lazy/ignorant, there are also quite many who have had physical ailments, emotional toils, or even mental problems that many of us have simply never dealt with. These kinds of problems can & do cause weight gain for a lot of folks. Who are we to judge? I'm fat, you're fat, they're fat, he's fat, she's fat - so what? The important thing is that we're HERE & trying to do something about it, even if we're not all completely successful, even if some of us put the weight back on after taking it off, and some of us doing it several times ("that'd be me, y'all!) .... the point is, fat is fat. Doesn't matter why or how or even how fat we are. Losing weight is never easy, it is not (well, shouldn't be!) quick, and it takes a great deal more than simple will power.
It's up to us to cheer each other on; not drag one another down. to all!
Last edited by Beach Patrol; 06-16-2010 at 03:18 PM.
I hope I didn't anger anyone with my comments about laziness and ignorance - they weren't directed at individual people, but at our society as whole. I understand that people have different situations.
As for the scooter thing, I don't really pay much attention to people on scooters, except to give them room in an aisle when they need it. My grocery stores always seem to have enough for everyone who needs one. My thoughts on judgment are pretty much the same as everone else here. The views I have on society aren't because I am judging anyone in society, but rather just commenting about it - taking that information from the amount of processed food we consume, the obesity stats, etc. There's no emotional attachment or intent to offend.
I have to say that I am quite surprised to hear from 3FC posters that think that laziness and ignorance is the main reason for obesity and that seeing them using those carts is anger inducing. Could it be that those who have overcome a significant weight problem feel that since they did it, everyone should be able to?
I do believe that.
I mean, I take into consideration that everyone has a different situation. I completely understand that it's harder for some than others. I sympathize with anyone who struggles with their weight - but yes, I do believe that anyone can lose it. I had to learn to believe that so I could START.
I didn't believe in the simple mathematics of weight loss & maintenance. I had weight all mixed up with ideas about being personally damned, in some way, or not being one of the elect. So I lost any sense of agency & self-determination. Looked at in that way, it just seemed hopeless, as if any effort I made was futile because I would always put the weight back on.
My view of this has undergone a dramatic change: Yes, I know I am probably one of the more metabolically challenged, genetically, but I know I can give it a good fight.
I agree that I was ignorant. It's hard to remember just how ignorant. Like trying to go back to being illiterate, in a way. By now, I don't have to think anymore about what the calories are in an apple vs. a banana, or the nutrients in a sweet potato as opposed to a big white baked potato, or how many calories are in a can of regular, nondiet cola. It's easy for me to forget now how much reading I did -- and still do -- trying to keep up with the science of calories in/calories out. I can't believe when, for instance, my mother doesn't automatically know this stuff.
There is also an emotional component. And yes, I've got self-esteem issues. I've struggled with depression.
Also I just don't eat like other people. Food has a druglike allure for me. In another thread, someone was talking about being nearly mesmerized by the sight of cinnamon buns. How she had to talk herself out of them, not look at them. That would be me. In the past, I let myself become weak at such moments. My world narrows down to me & the food. When I'm eating, I'm out of time & nearly out of this world, totally engrossed in the physical pleasure. It's like an out-of-body experience, almost. Or like an infant at the breast.
When something can do that for you -- even though it's only temporary & there's remorse later & payment comes due one day -- oh boy, watch out. Any thought of long-term effects evaporates in the face of the immediate prospect of pure pleasure. It's hard to postpone gratification all the time, even if it is a very adult thing & in part what separates us from animals.
While it's an individual's responsibility to deal with their health, I don't think society is helping us much.
Obesity is rampant in the U.S. and I don't think it's because millions of individuals independently decided to eat more and move less. Portion sizes have gotten large, the car culture remains entrenched, and now many people spend more time in front of a tv or a computer, than a campfire or playground.
I think we can support efforts to make our communities healthier such as getting rid of junk food in schools. Or organizing volunteer sports teams. In my city, I support the efforts to make Philadelphia more bicycle friendly.
I didn't mean to make this sound like a public service announcement, but I care about this issue a lot.
Last edited by motivated chickie; 06-16-2010 at 04:00 PM.
I have to say that I am quite surprised to hear from 3FC posters that think that laziness and ignorance is the main reason for obesity and that seeing them using those carts is anger inducing. Could it be that those who have overcome a significant weight problem feel that since they did it, everyone should be able to?
Are you really surprised? American Calvinism has always lauded pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Your prosperity in this world is entirely self-determined, by you using your brains & hard work -- continual hard work, six days a week -- to get by. And if you don't do the work, then you're lazy. And you deserve nothing. According to this doctrine, sloth is a terrible sin. Those who do the work are rewarded (with wealth, or in this case, thinness) and those who do not, are damned (with poverty, or fat). Fatness thus is a sign of unforgivable sloth.
ETA: I don't agree with this view, just giving my take on American Calvinism, which has shaped a lot of the popular ideas floating around in the U.S., and how I think it affects ideas about fat people.
I agree that there is a lot of ignorance out there, meaning a lack of knowledge. Someone I know was shocked to learn that all the fruit juice she was drinking was full of calories. To her, juice (100% juice without added sugar) was healthy and in her mind, that mean it wasn't something she needed to think about in terms of calories and weight. So yeah, she knew that cookies or ice cream could be fattening but thought that "healthy" food could be consumed in unlimited quantities without any problem.
This has certainly been an interesting discussion. I am sure that none of the comments made were meant to be offensive to anyone. I think we are all passionate about weight control or the lack of it because we know how central it is to our health and happiness. "Ignorance" needs to be replaced with nutritional education taught at home, in schools, and in our communities and modeled by parents and teachers. "Laziness" needs to be replaced by physical education being again a requirement in our schools and promoted in our homes and communities. We have to start demanding more for our kids and grandkids than quick stops at fast food joints as "dinner" and a night in front of the TV.
If we don't start trying to changes these things, it is said our next generation will not live as long as current generations.
I'm starting with my six-year old grandson, Brantley.
Even when some of us know the why it does not make the scars go away. For someone like me they are there forever and you just need to keep treating them with care. My care was delayed for years of self medicating and my new indulgence is food but I am in the process of learning what food is actually suppose to be for, substance for the body not to treat the scars.
A woman in the aisle laid into me HARD about "lazy fat people" using the carts, taking them from people with ACTUAL injuries...
I went home and sobbed. And I started putting my brace on OVER my pants after that, if I thought I might need to use a scooter.
We never, ever know why someone chooses to use a scooter. It had never occurred to me that someone might think it was just "fat people being lazy" until someone publically berated and humiliated me.
I am so sorry that happened to you. Just reading about the incident has left a big lump in my throat. My mother, my husband and I've never faced a direct confrontation, just the overtly hostile stares and glares, and people griping in stage whispers to each other. Obviously they meant for us to overhear, but never had the gall to say something directly to us - or even make direct eyecontact. Of course, that's sometimes almost worse, because it feels like without the eye contact, we don't really have the right to respond or defend ourselves, either.
I'm normally a very confident person, who doesn't feel the need to apologize for my existence, but there's something about needing the cart that makes me feel "dirty." Even though I know I have a right to use the cart when I need it, it still feels like everyone is staring and judging (and it turns out, many of them are).
I don't know anyone who uses the carts because they want to. My mom has severe arthritis (caused by her obesity), and when walking became difficult, even with a cane, she had to use the cart. She suffered for years before becoming desperate enough to use the cart. At the time, I thought she was being silly, because there was no doubt that she needed the cart (even if it was only because she was fat).
My husband has to be in excrutiating pain to use the cart. At first, I thought he was being silly too.
I didn't understand until the first time I needed one myself, exactly how demeaning it can feel to use one (especially when you see the judgement and disgust of people's faces).
When I'm in a mild flare, I can lean on a grocery cart and use it as a walker, but if I need the cart, I'm more likely to just stay home. I'm normally pretty immune to fat-haters but using the cart, I feel so vulnerable. I feel like I need a note from my doctor, and should pass out copies to everyone I see.
I truly doubt that anyone uses those carts out of simple laziness - it's just too demeaning. That doesn't mean that simple fat and only fat can't be the reason a person needs the cart. At my highest weight, I avoided large stores like Walmart, not because I didn't want to walk, but because if I couldn't. I'd get about 1/3 of the way into the store and needed to sit down, or I was going to fall down (and if there's anything more embarsassing than riding a cart, it's having to have strangers haul your fat *** off the floor).
My face would turn bright fuschia and I'd have a histamine reaction or an asthma attack (sort of an allergic reaction to exertion). My face would be dripping sweat, and I'd feel like my heart was going to burst out of my chest (but of course, I deserved all of that, because I'm fat). Everyone knows fat people deserve to be punished. They don't deserve to be in public in the first place, so they really should just stay home, rather than take up the space that belongs to more deserving people (and of course, everyone else is more deserving).
Sometimes the harshest treatment was from fat people not using the cart (I guess they thought if they could haul their fat *** around the store, I could too, not realizing that most of the time, I do too. It's just that a few times a year, my lower back will feel too weak to support me, and I'll need to use the cart - or stay home).
People shouldn't have to stay home because they don't "deserve" to have assistance when they need it (even if it's their fault they need it). Getting out in the community, is often one of the first steps a super morbidly obese person takes on the road to reclaiming their health and dignity. Fat can make you agoraphobic and afraid to leave the house (which tends to contribute to greater obesity. Yes, it's possible to exercise and diet at home alone, but a support system and a life are more powerful motivators). The motorized carts may be the only thing that prevent a person from a life of hermitage and isolation - and further weight gain.
I know I have a "why" and a "how"...and could write for pages on both. But in the end, I think the "now" is more important. I can't go back in time and change my bad behaviors, any more than I can change my genetic code. So, despite how Jillian Michaels seems to say, they don't bother me that much.
As for the cart thing, I had to stop judging people on it when I was 14. I had some major ankle issues from a torn ligament; if I had been shopping for a long time, I seriously couldn't walk any longer, it just hurt too badly. In combination with a major PCOS flare, I was gaining weight since I didn't know what was wrong internally and I couldn't exercise. My mom and I would get the dirtiest looks, as if I was just lazy and she was a horrible mom for letting me get fat. I realized then that I didn't know the whole story behind people's actions and it just wasn't fair to judge someone who could be in serious pain
I have never ridden in the scooter before... but aren't they a pain to navigate? They always seemed that way to me. Everytime I see someone in one, I feel sorry for them! Cause how bad must they be hurting to try to work one! I never just assumed someone was too lazy to walk.
This has been an eye opening thread. To those of you that were put down while using the scooter That just plain sucks!
I have to agree that ignorance is a huge contributor in making our nation obese. I look at people like my awesome husband, who has slowly gained weight in our marriage, and is one of the most food ignorant people I've met. Until recently, he had no concept of how many calories were in anything, how many he should be having, and that "healthy" foods aren't always healthy. At first it was shocking to me, but then I realized that since he had played competitive soccer his whole life, he'd never needed to evaluate what he was eating andhow it correlated to his weight. And, since he is a guy and not brought up in diet culture, didn't have anywhere that he would have received the same knowledge. I don't see ignorance as a character flaw by any means, more like a situational fact. He's the manager of a group home for delinquent teenage boys, and has been trying to slowly teach his guys the basics of nutrition. Starch protein vegetable etc. Half of his house at one point didn't know that Kool Aid isn't juice, or from fruit! It's not because people are stupid, they just don't know what they don't know.
As for people in scooters... I had to use them a few times when I was in college. It was humiliating. Even though I was thin, I could see everyone staring at me like I was just lazy, or goofing off. In realtiy, I suffered a debilitating back injury. I can't imagine how much worse I would have felt about it if I had been overweight or obese. Now I assume that everyone who uses one has a pain issue that prvents them from doign otherwise- whether they be young, old, fat, or thin.
Back in 1995 my mom started using the store scooters when they were available, and as I walked with her I remember the horrible looks she'd get, even though I don't think it carried quite the same social stigma that it does these days. She certainly looked like she could get around ok, but all people could see was that she was heavy. The real issue was that she'd had bone cancer and had to have a pin inserted into her fractured femur; if the store had no scooter we'd borrow their wheelchair (wow, do stores even offer wheelchairs anymore or have the scooters taken over?) since trying to navigate through a big store was too much for her on her walker, the only handicapped accessory she owned.
And you know, it's interesting that she'd get a lot less dirty looks when being pushed in a wheelchair.
I remember back then that one of our grocery stores didn't have check-out aisles with enough clearance for the scooters, with the exception of the one 12 items or less/handicapped lane. We certainly bought more than 12 items at a time but it was never an issue before . . . but this one particular time as the cashier started to scan out items, one of her supervisors showed up, obviously ticked that we were holding up the line. She gave us a dirty look and said to the cashier, "You just can't say no, can you?" and stormed off.
I remember being too shocked and angry to say anything, but what the heck? Like I said, it was also the handicapped lane, the only one that had enough clearance for the scooter to pass through!
I have never ridden in the scooter before... but aren't they a pain to navigate?
LOL! Are they ever! If they were easier to drive, I think I would have gotten over my shame and phobia of using them. When I need the cart because of a bad flare of the arthritis and fibro, my coordination and my physical and mental reaction time are usually also impaired. As if my largeness doesn't draw enough attention, my inability to control the scooter ensures that I make a true spectacle of myself.
And you have to make sure the scooter has been charged sufficiently, or you face "break down" in the middle of the store, leaving you stranded, and having to get a clerk's attention to assist you by bringing a new scooter to you (possibly having to wait until a new one is available if they're all in use). If it's the store's only scooter, you're SOL and have to either get out of the store on your own steam (which if that were possible, you wouldn't have taken the scooter), or have the clerks wheel you out on a pallet dolly (like that isn't embarassing). They might have a manual wheelchair, but if you can't fit your behind in the seat, it's back to the pallet dolly.
I encourage anyone who thinks the scooters are being used for fun, or out of laziness by people who could shop with a regular cart if they wanted to, to go to Walmart when there's not many people there (so you're not taking the cart from someone who needs it) and try to drive it (not just in the wide aisles, but actually in the tight internal aisles were a person would actually be shopping). Now try imagining what it would like when the store was busy. You really won't be able to, because driving it when the store is deserted is a breeze. It's ten times more difficult when other people are in the store. People who aren't watching out for you in the cart. Kids and adults cut or dash in front of the cart, and you risk mowing them down, because there's no way you can brake in time. People stand in your way and either don't hear or see you, or they see you (because they're staring or glaring at you) yet still refuse to move, (perhaps because they don't think you deserve to be in the cart, or perhaps just because they're rude to everyone). Even if you say "excuse me, could I get through here, please," some will ignore you, pretending not to hear you.
It's such a nightmare, that I can't believe anyone would use a scooter, if there were any other alternative (including huffing, wheezing, sweating, and charlie horse muscle cramps). My sister bought my mother a used wheelchair, just so they wouldn't have to deal with the carts. It's an old model (and even so was very expensive), and really hard to push (even with a skinny, tiny passenger, which my mother isn't. Though she's maintained a 60 to 70 lb loss and now only weighes about 210 lbs). My father and sister take turns pushing, and when mom's able to, she pushes the empty chair, using it as a walker.
forgive me??? 
)
to all!
